Ireland Squad:6N/Wolfhounds Discussion Thread **Mod Warning. Read OP Before Posting**

GiftofGab

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Séan Fitzpatrick I presume??

Isn't he from NZ and ~50??

haha what did I write that for? You know who I mean

jolley123

GiftofGab wrote: »

I would like to see fergus mcfadden get a squad place for the Italy game (provided he keeps up the current form). He's now a utilty back. How about earls no.11, fitzpatrick no 15 and mcfadden on the bench. We should close that game out mid way through the 2nd half then give mcfadden a run out at international level. He deserves a international cap.

SOB to start every game. Deserved more game time at the A.I's

I couldn't agree more. It's better for us to introduce McFadden now rather than in the warm up games. Whether Fitz should play at 15 or not is really dependent on how he fairs coming up to the six nations. Although I certainly would have him instead of Geordan Murphy. I think at this point, stop Earls bench-warming and throw him in the starting line-up. If Fitz goes 15 then at least there'll be no "Fitzy should be starting".

[Jackass]

Interstingly enough, Fitz is starting at 15 for Leinster v Ospreys ahead of the magic in form player Nacewa.

You'd wonder how much influence uncle deccie had in that selection...

I still stick with Kearney as the best Irish full-back by far. A loss of form and people don't even want him in the squad, forgetting the years of great form he had peaking at and beyond the Lions tour, where many considered him the best full-back in the world, or at least in that category of contender.

Give him time, he's had a few ropey games, but he'll be back and his brilliance far out shines his poor games. Also, funnily enough (and this was always the case with Girvan Dempsey also), people don't rate Kearneys attacking threat, which for the record, is absolutely superb!

Unfortunately, he got bogged down in the Cheika kick and chase tactics (which also made Nacewa look distinctly average, who's now arguably the most in form full back in Europe) and we never got to see his attacking threat that often, but, under Schmidt we've seen those shackles come off Kearney, and before he got injured, it was one of the highlights of my season so far, seeing Kearney run the ball back, as he's very quick and very good at it, and I think he was just finding his form when he got injured, so I'm gutted for the lad. I know this is a while ago now, and he was only a wee lad, but when he's allowed run the ball, he can certainly do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUSANCkoX5s

As for Irish players who could make a NZ team, I think we would have contenders at 2, 3, 5, 8, 9, 13, 14 & 15.

Of Irish players who would make the team! Very few I'd imagine, but if under consideration I'd say a few would deffinitely get a shot. Heaslip & Bowe would be your best bets though.

jolley123

[Jackass] wrote: »

Interstingly enough, Fitz is starting at 15 for Leinster v Ospreys ahead of the magic in form player Nacewa.

I still stick with Kearney as the best Irish full-back by far. A loss of form and people don't even want him in the squad, forgetting the years of great form he had peaking at and beyond the Lions tour, where many considered him the best full-back in the world, or at least in that category of contender.

Give him time, he's had a few ropey games, but he'll be back and his brilliance far out shines his poor games. Also, funnily enough (and this was always the case with Girvan Dempsey also), people don't rate Kearneys attacking threat, which for the record, is absolutely superb!

I'd agree that Kearney is Irelands top 15. Didn't put him in the team though cause he's injured. There seems to be little news on his recovery either? One thing I always wished Leinster would do with Kearney, is utilize his boot(off the tee). Give him enough kicking practice and giving away penalties past the half-way line against Ireland would be a lot more costly.

I think your bang on with explaining his kicking habits. I remember watching the Ireland vs Australia 2009 game and begging Kearney to run....then he got floored by Palu.

SomeFool

1 J Andress
2 B Blaney
3 T Ryan
4 B Casey
5 D Browne
6 J o Sullivan
7 N Best
8 R Wilson
9 R Shaw
10 G Steenson
11 P Devlin
12 J Downey
13 K Tonetti
14 T Bowe
15 G Murphy

16 D Blaney
17 R Murphy
18 P Bracken
19 T Hayes
20 E Grace
21 N McMillan
22 J Manning
23 P Phelan

Cpt_Blackbeard

[Jackass] wrote: »

As for Irish players who could make a NZ team, I think we would have contenders at 2, 3, 5, 8, 9, 13, 14 & 15.

3. Ross would have a very slim chance ahead of the Franks brothers.

8. Heaslip is a brilliant 8 but is not in Read's league, Read is easily the best 8 in world rugby.

13. Conrad Smith might be the best 13 in the world right now, even BOD would have trouble getting ahead of him.

15. Kearney was brilliant under the high ball, but since the interpretations have changes he has been found out in attack and especially in defense. Mulliana has been playing brilliantly for NZ and again could be the best 15 in the world.

They might be contenders, but the are vying for the jerseys of some of the best players in the world.

Cpt_Blackbeard

SomeFool wrote: »

1 J Andress
2 B Blaney
3 T Ryan
4 B Casey
5 D Browne
6 J o Sullivan
7 N Best
8 R Wilson
9 R Shaw
10 G Steenson
11 P Devlin
12 J Downey
13 K Tonetti
14 T Bowe
15 G Murphy

16 D Blaney
17 R Murphy
18 P Bracken
19 T Hayes
20 E Grace
21 N McMillan
22 J Manning
23 P Phelan

That must have taken some amount of work. :eek: But no J.Staunton?

jolley123

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

8. Heaslip is a brilliant 8 but is not in Read's league, Read is easily the best 8 in world rugby. .

TBH that comment annoys me. Could Read be called the best no.8 in the world right now - perhaps. But to say Heaslip is not in his league is daft. Read is always gonna look good when he's playing alongside the quality he is. Plus, before this year, most fans wouldn't have payed any attention to him. Easily the best 8....I mean really? So you'll just discard Parisse, forget about Harinordequoy, Jamie who now?

Heaslip has played brilliantly at a consistent level for the past 3 years. Last year he hit form that was simply outstanding. I'm not discarding that Read has been unreal in 2010, but to say Heaslip is out of his league is daft. If Heaslip was playing with the quality of the All Blacks, imagine how good he would look. It's easy to shine when everyone around you is doing there jobs perfectly.

TheHighRoad

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

There is a big big step up from HC to international level. And just looking at the NZ team that played Ireland: 1. Tony Woodcock 2. Hikawera Elliot 3. Owen Frank 4. Brad Thorn 5. Tom Donnelly 6. Jerome Kaino 7. Richie McCaw 8. Kieran Read 9. Andy Ellis 10. Daniel Carter 11. Hosea Gear 12. Ma’a Nonu 13. Conrad Smith 14. Cory Jane 15. Mils Muliaina The only positions that we would have a chance of making are hooker, lock, scrumhalf and Bowe at 14. BOD probably wouldNt make the squad as they had Sonny Bill on the bench. Sonny Bill FFS!!

Flannery wouldnt get ahead of Elliot and definitely wouldnt get ahead of Mealamu. At second row you must be having a laugh if you think POC or DOC would get ahead of Donnelly, Thorn, Ali Williams or Boric. They would both 5th and 6th choice and it would be fair enough, DOC is AWOL and POC has been poor since Lions tour 2009 and injured. They are all better second rows. Scrumhalf? That must be a joke! OLeary, Stringer, Reddan, Boss are nowhere near as good as Ellis and definitely not as good Cowan. The only players who would have a chance of starting are Ferris and Heaslip. Read is immense but then Id like to see what Heaslip could do in such a dominant pack. When you consider how well Heaslips done with a scrum going backwards and a poorly performing pack I dont think its a stretch to say he could excell. Ditto for Ferris. Bowe would probably get ahead of Corey Jane but even then its not certain. Corey Jane is an excellent player.

The 30mins against Ulster showed me that if he was fit (Big if again) he would be as good as ever. Can you name 5 hookers in the world right now that are better than him?

Mealamu, Elliot, Polatu-Na, Du Pleiss, Moore, Servat, Richardt Strauss and possibly Ledesma and Hartley. Thats just off the top of my head by the way

danthefan

So basically all the Munster players in the Ireland team + Bowe might have a shot at the NZ team.

Ok.

SomeFool

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

That must have taken some amount of work. :eek: But no J.Staunton?

Not really, only 2 fellas I'm not sure on are Phelan and Bracken on the bench, went with Manning over Staunton as he is covering more positions right now and opted for a 6-2 split.

PhatPiggins

Mealamu, Elliot, Polatu-Na, Du Pleiss, Moore, Servat, Richardt Strauss and possibly Ledesma and Hartley. Thats just off the top of my head by the way

Is this a wind up?

stejkenny

danthefan wrote: »

Was Barry "30 caps" Murphy on the bench?

lol i remember that post too; utterly brilliant stuff; cheers dan

stejkenny

danthefan wrote: »

So basically all the Munster players in the Ireland team + Bowe might have a shot at the NZ team.

Ok.

No only Flannery; if he can get a lighter pair of crutches; maybe ones with gloves on the top for throwing that ball in at line out time. Oh yeah and old 30 caps Murphy of course!!

RuggieBear

no more potshots. if you want to contribute do so constructively and civilly.

roycon

i know read is a good player but tbh i think hes one of the weaker players in the new zealand 15. the new zealand backrows and secondrows who have come to europe in recent years such as marty holah, jerry collins, chris jack and masoe havent been able to dominate their rivals like they did for new zealand. I still dont think read is a number 8 although he probably could cover second row and all back row positions with ease. technically hes just not a good ball carrier but much like rocky elsom he struggles and makes the extra yards. heaslip, ferris and odriscoll would get in the nz match day squad i reckon

roycon

and fairplay to "some fool" for coming up with that team. some amount of work put in

Beanmachine

roycon wrote: »

i know read is a good player but tbh i think hes one of the weaker players in the new zealand 15.

He is one of their best players, future captain.

TheHighRoad

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Mealamu, Elliot, Polatu-Na, Du Pleiss, Moore, Servat, Richardt Strauss and possibly Ledesma and Hartley. Thats just off the top of my head by the wayIs this a wind up?

Richardt Strauss is one of the best hookers in europe on current form. Elliots form in super 15 in 2010 was incredible and yes Polatu-Na has been playing well.Is it a wind up saying that after 30mins of rugby in the ML where Flannery had an average game that Flannery is now among the top 5 hookers in the world?

PhatPiggins

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Richardt Strauss is one of the best hookers in europe on current form. Elliots form in super 15 in 2010 was incredible and yes Polatu-Na has been playing well.Is it a wind up saying that after 30mins of rugby in the ML where Flannery had an average game that Flannery is now among the top 5 hookers in the world?

Is that you Bugnug?

jolley123

Gareth Steenson staying at Chiefs for another 2 years.
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/premiership/news/25181.php

SomeFool

jolley123 wrote: »

Gareth Steenson staying at Chiefs for another 2 years.
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/premiership/news/25181.php

Can't blame the man, he's doing well there right now, and Exeter are developing nicely too.

wixfjord

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Is that you Bugnug?

He's dead right about Strauss though. Does half an hour in the ML in months, make Flannery better than a guy who has been playing excellently all season? Not in my opinion anyway.
We all know what Flannery could do, perhaps not anymore though.

profitius

wixfjord wrote: »

He's dead right about Strauss though. Does half an hour in the ML in months, make Flannery better than a guy who has been playing excellently all season? Not in my opinion anyway.
We all know what Flannery could do, perhaps not anymore though.

I presume Flannery can still throw in the ball better than most international hookers. In that regard he has few rivals.

Morf

profitius wrote: »

I presume Flannery can still throw in the ball better than most international hookers. In that regard he has few rivals.

Are we still relying on the premise that a hooker's only job is throwing? And a prop's main job is lifting? And a lock's main job is lineout jumping?

The game has moved on. Matfield isn't getting near any player of the year polls any more.

profitius

Morf wrote: »

Are we still relying on the premise that a hooker's only job is throwing? And a prop's main job is lifting? And a lock's main job is lineout jumping?

The game has moved on. Matfield isn't getting near any player of the year polls any more.

I never said it was their ONLY job but the top class players master the basics in their positions. Lineouts are crucial and decide the outcome of many matches. It like a hooker who makes 30 yards carrying but misses a few lineouts which result in a total of 70 yards of ground lost.

JustinDee

Morf wrote: »

Are we still relying on the premise that a hooker's only job is throwing? And a prop's main job is lifting? And a lock's main job is lineout jumping?

If a hooker can't throw ball in to lineout, they've a problem.
A prop given the skillset they are usually selected for (propping a front row in the scrum) means they're usually the best man for the job of lifting in lineouts and the locks are usually the best jumpers.

In the setpiece, the game hasn't actually changed that much over the past decade with the front-five's role in mind.

Morf

profitius wrote: »

I never said it was their ONLY job but the top class players master the basics in their positions. Lineouts are crucial and decide the outcome of many matches. It like a hooker who makes 30 yards carrying but misses a few lineouts which result in a total of 70 yards of ground lost.

You're deliberately misinterpreting my point too. Players are becoming more rounded and while excellence in one area is great. It won't make you a world class player on its own. A more rounded skillset is expected from world class players.

Morf

JustinDee wrote: »

If a hooker can't throw ball in to lineout, they've a problem.
A prop given the skillset they are usually selected for (propping a front row in the scrum) means they're usually the best man for the job of lifting in lineouts and the locks are usually the best jumpers.

In the setpiece, the game hasn't actually changed that much over the past decade with the front-five's role in mind.

It very much depends on the wider game plan of the team. South Africa are traditionally very set-piece orientated with a strong on dominating the scrum and lineout. Whereas New Zealand's current incarnation have focused on avoiding set pieces and playing a continuity game.

I'd like to look back in ten years time and see how the roles/physiques of front 5 players compare.

JustinDee

Morf wrote: »

It very much depends on the wider game plan of the team. South Africa are traditionally very set-piece orientated with a strong on dominating the scrum and lineout. Whereas New Zealand's current incarnation have focused on avoiding set pieces and playing a continuity game.

I'd like to look back in ten years time and see how the roles/physiques of front 5 players compare.

Not that what has you said has anything to do with the hooker chucking ball into lineout, but which props aren't picked because of their propping abilities and which locks aren't picked because of lineout and scrum-push ability?

TheHighRoad

JustinDee wrote: »

but which props arent picked because of their propping abilities

Mike Ross. Criminally overlooked for Tony Buckley. Look at the difference between Buckleys performance against Paul James where he was schooled and then look at Ross last night against Duncan Jones where he schooled Jones. In fact look at Healy and Ross scrums all year against world class front rows such as Clermont and tell me how on earth the Irish management is continuing with Buckley at tighthead

JustinDee

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Mike Ross. Criminally overlooked for Tony Buckley. Look at the difference between Buckleys performance against Paul James where he was schooled and then look at Ross last night against Paul James where he schooled James. In fact look at Healy and Ross scrums all year against world class front rows such as Clermont and tell me how on earth the Irish management is continuing with Buckley at tighthead

The poster brought up New Zealand as an example and I asked which players weren't selected on their setpiece abilities.

There's already a thread about Mike Ross.

Beanmachine

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Mike Ross. Criminally overlooked for Tony Buckley. Look at the difference between Buckleys performance against Paul James where he was schooled and then look at Ross last night against Paul James where he schooled James. In fact look at Healy and Ross scrums all year against world class front rows such as Clermont and tell me how on earth the Irish management is continuing with Buckley at tighthead

Not having a go but Paul James wasn't even on the bench last night.

PhatPiggins

Beanmachine wrote: »

Not having a go but Paul James wasn't even on the bench last night.

:pac::pac::pac:

TheHighRoad

Beanmachine wrote: »

Not having a go but Paul James wasnt even on the bench last night.

Sorry I meant to say Duncan Jones i.e a much better player than Paul James who Buckley get destroyed by.

PhatPiggins

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Sorry I meant to say Duncan Jones i.e a much better player than Paul James who Buckley get destroyed by.

You do realise that Duncan Jones is a tight head?

TheHighRoad

PhatPiggins wrote: »

You do realise that Duncan Jones is a tight head?

He converted to loosehead in 2001.....

PhatPiggins

TheHighRoad wrote: »

He converted to loosehead in 2001.....

I take it back, I had a picture of the other 'Hair Bear' in my head.

James has come on leaps and bounds this season I think you'd be hard pushed to say that D.Jones is much better then him.

theboss80

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Touhy
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. D'Arcy
13. BO'D
14. Earls
15. Fitz

16. Cronin
17. Buckley
18. DOC
19. Wallace
20. Boss
21. ROG
22. McFadden

irishbucsfan

theboss80 wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Touhy
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. D'Arcy
13. BO'D
14. Earls
15. Fitz

16. Cronin
17. Buckley
18. DOC
19. Wallace
20. Boss
21. ROG
22. McFadden

Good team but... No Bowe?

theboss80

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Good team but... No Bowe?

Ill tell you what Im thinking, ive put in Earls and Trimble and its basically to see which one steps up to the plate in the first match. I think Bowe has to play the remaining matches. Id prefer to try this as otherwise we will be swapping a wing in and out on each game between Earls/Trimble and with two games remaining still not know who owns the jersey. I think it was very tough on Trimble last time around and he deserves a chance this tournament to stake a claim for RWC. Maybe with the 22 i picked Bowe could slot in instead of McFadden but really think we need to see what hes made of at this level so some experience coming off the bench.

Ian_K

If anyones watching Leicester/Northampton at the moment, Geordan Murphys playing a stormer, Stuart Barnes (dont usually value his opinion) saying his form over the last month or two has been top class

As fas as im concerned Geordan is the best full back we have but i'd still start Fitzy there against Italy just to see how he'd get on



Forget it, gone off with what looks like a broken leg/ankle, sickening for him

funky penguin

For the love of God.....the poor chap, that's awful!

ughh.

Murphy and the Ireland team just never have mixed well. He's cursed.

disaster

irishbucsfan

Murphy, Kearney and Duffy are all injured now correct?

Guess Fitz is our only option?

Ian_K

I wouldnt rule out Johne Murphy being included in the match day squad, impressed me alot lately

Denis Hurley was solid last night but way to inconsistent to be considered

thomond2006

Ian_K wrote: »

I wouldnt rule out Johne Murphy being included in the match day squad, impressed me alot lately

Denis Hurley was solid last night but way to inconsistent to be considered

If G Murphy is in fact out, it should open the door for Johne for a bench spot maybe.

Hurley doesn't have top end pace, there's no way he'll be included. He isn't a starter every week either, only played last night because Howlett cried off.

stephen_n

Ian_K wrote: »

I wouldnt rule out Johne Murphy being included in the match day squad, impressed me alot lately

Denis Hurley was solid last night but way to inconsistent to be considered

I would imagine Earls will be considered before J Murphy.

Ian_K

stephen_n wrote: »

I would imagine Earls will be considered before J Murphy.

Yes, I was thinking Earls will start on the wing, Bowe/Trimble on the other and Fitz at FB

Johne Murphy offers far much more versatility off the bench than anyone else we have

tolosenc

Ian_K wrote: »

Johne Murphy offers far much more versatility off the bench than anyone else we have

McFadden?