Depression

Chad ghostal · 26-01-2011 3:37pm

ntlbell wrote: »

as I said sometimes there is no problem.

you have lost me.. if someone is depressed, there is a problem. Whether it is something in their lives that is affecting them or a chemical imbalance, depression is a problem.

While people are depressed, they are not thinking clearly and should seek help in order to be able to see what options they have. If they have no options and are in a situation where they are in a state of constant pain (mental or otherwise) then, absolutely they should have the right to decide what to do with themselves. But it should be a last resort as MOST people do not have problems that would result in their quality of life being permanently destroyed.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 3:39pm

Chad ghostal wrote: »

you have lost me.. if someone is depressed, there is a problem. Whether it is something in their lives that is affecting them or a chemical imbalance, depression is a problem.

I'm suggesting that not everyone who wants to end their life is depressed. I thought this was fairly obvious?

Chad ghostal wrote: »

While people are depressed, they are not thinking clearly and should seek help in order to be able to see what options they have. If they have no options and are in a situation where they are in a state of constant pain (mental or otherwise) then, absolutely they should have the right to decide what to do with themselves. But it should be a last resort as MOST people do not have problems that would result in their quality of life being permanently destroyed.

Right, if people are depressed they should seek help. no one's suggesting otherwise.

Tchaikovsky · 26-01-2011 3:42pm

ntlbell wrote: »

How will the familiy and loved ones be affected if they decide not to for their sake and then every waking moment for that person is living hell?

Will that cheer them up?

are familiy and loved ones not suppose to want what's best for you? to be understanding? forgiving?

Well the last thing they would want is for their loved one to be 6 feet under. There are always solutions and ways out of living hells. Humans are an incredibly resilient species, capable of surviving through the most horrendous of circumstances.

I'm guessing you've never been affected by suicide?

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 3:45pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Well the last thing they would want is for their loved one to be 6 feet under. There are always solutions and ways out of living hells. Humans are an incredibly resilient species, capable of surviving through the most horrendous of circumstances.

But does "their" wants not make them selfish? Why is this selfishness only one sided in relation to suicide? Again, horrendous cimstances, blah blah. putting problems in the way for an explanation, the only problem maybe they don't want to live. This seems to be very hard for people to understand.

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

I'm guessing you've never been affected by suicide?

Yes, Yes I have.

Chad ghostal · 26-01-2011 3:59pm

ntlbell wrote: »

He's been smoking a bit of common sense. You should try some.

ntlbell wrote: »

I think his future was pretty obvious, 19 or not.

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm suggesting that not everyone who wants to end their life is depressed. I thought this was fairly obvious?

That's not what I was arguing about

are you just being patronising to every comment you get?

ntlbell wrote: »

and a bit less patronoising comments.

It would be nice if you at least followed your own advice.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 4:02pm

Chad ghostal wrote: »

That's not what I was arguing about are you just being patronising to every comment you get?

It would be nice if you at least followed your own advice.

It's what was been discussed for a number of pages, I thought you were following the thread. if not.

yes people with depression should seek help.

Now, can we move on.

Tchaikovsky · 26-01-2011 4:09pm

ntlbell wrote: »

But does "their" wants not make them selfish? Why is this selfishness only one sided in relation to suicide? Again, horrendous cimstances, blah blah. putting problems in the way for an explanation, the only problem maybe they don't want to live. This seems to be very hard for people to understand.

It's hard for people to understand because it's an unnatural way of thinking.

Selfishness is one-sided because once you're dead, there's no going back.

midlandsmissus · 26-01-2011 4:09pm

They say everyone considers suicide at some point in their lives. I have really seriously I'd say on two occasions, really thinking "I can't go on, I'm definitely going to do it".
What stopped me was the pain I'd cause my mother, and thinking "I can't do that to her".
I know no helpine, or person or friend would have helped me at that stage. You make the decision yourself, no external factor will help you when you're that low. Which is why friends/family should never blame themselves.

I'm definitely not suicidal now, but it's weird, I remember the day I thought I was definitely going to do it, a good while ago now, and I remember that the whole day, time seemed to literally slow down. Everything seemed to slow down, people moving, everything.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 4:12pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

It's hard for people to understand because it's an unnatural way of thinking.

It's different, sure.

I don't understand people who play piano, or cricket, or take coke bottles up their ring. Different strokes.

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Selfishness is one-sided because once you're dead, there's no going back.

People are incredibly reslieant specices you said, will get over the most horredous circumstances? right?

They'll get over it.

Tchaikovsky · 26-01-2011 4:18pm

ntlbell wrote: »

It's different, sure.

I don't understand people who play piano, or cricket, or take coke bottles up their ring. Different strokes.

People are incredibly reslieant specices you said, will get over the most horredous circumstances? right?

They'll get over it.

I can't believe you're equating killing yourself with playing piano, as if it was a hobbie or something!

You never get over a death, especially if it's a sudden one. You might learn to cope, but things are irretrievably changed.

Naikon · 26-01-2011 4:18pm

Chad ghostal wrote: »

you have lost me.. if someone is depressed, there is a problem. Whether it is something in their lives that is affecting them or a chemical imbalance, depression is a problem.

While people are depressed, they are not thinking clearly and should seek help in order to be able to see what options they have. If they have no options and are in a situation where they are in a state of constant pain (mental or otherwise) then, absolutely they should have the right to decide what to do with themselves. But it should be a last resort as MOST people do not have problems that would result in their quality of life being permanently destroyed.

Depression is not a result of a "chemical imbalance". No long term real hard evidence to back that claim up. Nice little number for the drug companies though. Sure, they may or may not take the edge off a bad depressive episode, but they never solve the root causes of the problem. I would do the same if I had the power to exploit peoples stupidity. I would go as far as to say depression is an evolutionary adaptation to an unnatural, artificial modern society. We can't have people with mental illness upsetting the status quo now, can we? Best drug the ****ers up to their eyeballs. Ever stop to wonder why most reactive depression occurs?

A direct, proper fix is always better than a simple workaround.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 4:21pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

I can't believe you're equating killing yourself with playing piano, as if it was a hobbie or something!

I'm not, I'm suggesting people are different and see things and think in different ways, the fact you can't understand doesn't make it any less right or wrong.

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

You never get over a death, especially if it's a sudden one. You might learn to cope, but things are irretrievably changed.

We're going around in circles, eithier way, someone is selfish.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 4:25pm

Naikon wrote: »

Depression is not a result of a "chemical imbalance". No long term real hard evidence to back that claim up. Nice little number for the drug companies though. Sure, they may or may not take the edge off a depressive episode, but they never solve the root causes of the problem. I would do the same if I had the power to exploit peoples stupidity. I would go as far as to say depression is an evolutionary adaptation. Ever stop to wonder why most reactive depression occurs? I will give you a hint: Society in general!!!

The most shocking part of this is the men and women who perscribe these drugs willy/nilly do so with little or no proof of anything wrong. It's amazing how quick GP's are to dish out AD's like smarties.

Depression is a word that's getting thrown around now like a flu. Anyone who gets a little down on themselves seems to get banged on to some form of anti-d.

Princess Peach · 26-01-2011 4:35pm

Naikon wrote: »

Depression is not a result of a "chemical imbalance". No long term real hard evidence to back that claim up. Nice little number for the drug companies though. Sure, they may or may not take the edge off a bad depressive episode, but they never solve the root causes of the problem. I would do the same if I had the power to exploit peoples stupidity. I would go as far as to say depression is an evolutionary adaptation to an unnatural, artificial modern society. We can't have people with mental illness upsetting the status quo now, can we? Best drug the ****ers up to their eyeballs. Ever stop to wonder why most reactive depression occurs?

I'm sorry where have you gotten this information? Are you a doctor?

A direct, proper fix is always better than a simple workaround.

What is this direct proper fix you speak of?

Naikon · 26-01-2011 4:35pm

ntlbell wrote: »

The most shocking part of this is the men and women who perscribe these drugs willy/nilly do so with little or no proof of anything wrong. It's amazing how quick GP's are to dish out AD's like smarties.

Depression is a word that's getting thrown around now like a flu. Anyone who gets a little down on themselves seems to get banged on to some form of anti-d.

I agree. I have known people who got prescriptions following a quick glance and the ever scientific looking test: You look depressed, here, have some smarties. Questions are on the packet. Bye now!

I don't like to don the tin foil hat without a strong suspicion, but there is a profit motive there.

starviewadams · 26-01-2011 4:40pm

Bi-polar depression,which I suffer from btw,IS partly caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain,and I've not been told that by my GP alone but from clinical psychiatrists and psychologists from some of the biggest hospitals in this country.

That sort of attitude that you have displayed here ntlbell is exactly why most people are ashamed to admit that they are suffering from a mental iilness.I dare ask what your alternative to depressed people being put on anti-depressants is?Telling them to ''snap out of it!'' or ''cop on'' I presume?

Chad ghostal · 26-01-2011 4:41pm

ntlbell wrote: »

It's what was been discussed for a number of pages, I thought you were following the thread. if not.

There was/is more than one discussion going on in the thread, if you had bothered to read what I had said.

ntlbell wrote: »

Now, can we move on.

Delighted..

Naikon wrote: »

Depression is not a result of a "chemical imbalance". No long term real hard evidence to back that claim up.

I have no intention of arguing about the plausibility of chemical imbalance, as I'm not a doctor. I have had heard several doctors explain enough (for and against) to say that they really don't know the cause of long term depression and they dont rule it out.

Naikon wrote: »

Nice little number for the drug companies though. Sure, they may or may not take the edge off a depressive episode, but they never solve the root causes of the problem.

I don't think they do any more than try to improve the quality of lives of people suffering.

Naikon wrote: »

I would do the same if I had the power to exploit peoples stupidity. I would go as far as to say depression is an evolutionary adaptation. Ever stop to wonder why most
reactive depression occurs? I will give you a hint: Society in general!!!

People are stupid to try and ease their pain a bit ? Society causes depression? that seems obvious, as does a lack of society causing depression.

// edit

Naikon wrote: »

We can't have people with mental illness upsetting the status quo now, can we? Best drug the ****ers up to their eyeballs.

I find it hard to take the your argument seriously when you come out with this conspiracy stuff, as if doctors are doing anything other than trying to help the individual (whether their advice is the best course of action or not is a different story).

Naikon wrote:

A direct, proper fix is always better than a simple workaround.

I agree with the last sentance, but in order to get a fix (if it is possible) often takes a large change to someone's life and anti depressants do a very good job of clearing their head, so that they have the strength and willpower to make that change.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 4:46pm

Princess Peach wrote: »

I'm sorry where have you gotten this information? Are you a doctor?

do you really think your average GP is trained enough to diagnose a chemical imbalance in the brain by asking you a few questions?

There is no scientific proof that I know of that verifies this, if you have some I'm more than happy to read it.

The whole area of dealing with depression by GP's in itself is crazy. They're not mental health profesionals and shouldn't be allowed to perscribe anti d's IMHO

Princess Peach wrote: »

What is this direct proper fix you speak of?

That would depend on the individual cases, but in a lot of cases a simple change in diet and excercising can fix the issue. But again they would need someone qualified enough to diagnose the actual problem and I personally feel GP's are not the right person to do this.

General practice != mental health profesional

Naikon · 26-01-2011 4:48pm

starviewadams wrote: »

Bi-polar depression,which I suffer from btw,IS partly caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain,and I've not been told that by my GP alone but from clinical psychiatrists and psychologists from some of the biggest hospitals in this country.

That sort of attitude that you have displayed here ntlbell is exactly why most people are ashamed to admit that they are suffering from a mental iilness.I dare ask what your alternative to depressed people being put on anti-depressants is?Telling them to ''snap out of it!'' or ''cop on'' I presume?

Where did he say people "should snap out of it"? From the looks of it, he mentioned that not everyone who ends their life is depressed, that suicide can be a rational, objective, and logically justified proposition. Besides, the "chemical balance" theory is mostly bogus. It might suffice for pushing drugs on depressed people, but it's not a real long term solution. You should read some scientific journals on the matter for a better perspective. Medical practitioners are not 100% infallible.

Acacia · 26-01-2011 4:50pm

Despite all the views I have on depression and how you shouldn't be ashamed to ask for help, I still feel a little wary posting this as it is so personal, even in a relatively anonymous forum but here goes...

I'm currently in counselling for depression. I have an unfortunate combination of low self-esteem , a family history of suicide and issues with bullying and surrounding myself with some not-so-nice people in that past... over the past year or so, the general bleakness with which I always viewed the world has become much worse, resulting in suicidal thoughts/ self-harm.

I can't give much advice to others in the same situation. The tricky thing with depression is that I don't think it takes quite the same form for everyone. Especially if your depression is caused by difficult circumstances in your life, it's easy to think "Everybody else can deal with these issues without thinking of suicide, why can't you?" Of course that just makes you feel worse.

For me, what made push myself into going to counselling was the constant thoughts of hurting myself or thinking "Well, no matter how bad it gets, suicide is always a way out..." That's no way to live your life. The trouble with depresssion is you begin to think that's all you're worth, and your flaws/imperfections become amplified until you think you're not really worthy of life. If these are the kinda thoughts that frequently run through your mind, well, you can see how killing yourself becomes a more attractive option.

I'm slowly getting better, but I really needed the counselling. Talking and taking it one day at a time is the best thing to do I think.

Naikon · 26-01-2011 4:53pm

Princess Peach wrote: »

I'm sorry where have you gotten this information? Are you a doctor?

Here is one of several sources: http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0020392

Princess Peach wrote: »

What is this direct proper fix you speak of?

To my knowledge, there isn't one.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 4:57pm

starviewadams wrote: »

Bi-polar depression,which I suffer from btw,IS partly caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain,and I've not been told that by my GP alone but from clinical psych
iatrists and psychologists from some of the biggest hospitals in this country.

How did they prove the imblance? what test did they do etc?

starviewadams wrote: »

That sort of attitude that you have displayed here ntlbell is exactly why most people are ashamed to admit that they are suffering from a mental iilness.I dare ask what your alternative to depressed people being put on anti-depressants is?Telling them to ''snap out of it!'' or ''cop on'' I presume?

what attitude have I displayed, I never mentioned anything about mental health issues untill my recent post's on GP's perscribing drugs so mayeb you can enlighten me on my attitude.

I don't have a problem with people being put on anti d's if it's proved scientifically they need them. none at all. I don't belive telling a GP you're feeling blue warrants a perscription for anti d's do you?

So no, I don't think people suffering with depression should "snap out of it"

26-01-2011 5:16pm

834 people have voted, 258 people have thanked the OP and currently 824 posts in this thread. When I first started this, I really had no idea of the impact it would have. It's incredible really.

Chad ghostal · 26-01-2011 5:24pm

ntlbell wrote: »

what attitude have I displayed, I never mentioned anything about mental health issues untill my recent post's on GP's perscribing drugs so mayeb you can enlighten me on my attitude.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that he's referring to this:

ntlbell wrote:

Depression is a word that's getting thrown around now like a flu. Anyone who gets a little down on themselves seems to get banged on to some form of anti-d.

Out of context, that is the opinion a lot of people have when anybody mentions depression. In context, I partly agree, but any decent gp knows his limits (in any area of medicine) and will advise a patient to seek specialist advice if they need it.

As to what the gp should know, any gp I have seen had some sort of mental health training and afaik (I could be wrong) at least basic mental health training is provided during medical school.

I realise there are a lot of gps who will happily write a prescription as soon as someone mentions they have been feeling down or going through a bad patch, but the majority of professionals know better.

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't belive telling a GP you're feeling blue warrants a perscription for anti d's do you?

at what point did anyone say this?

Dravokivich · 26-01-2011 5:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

834 people have voted, 258 people have thanked the OP and currently 824 posts in this thread. When I first started this, I really had no idea of the impact it would have. It's incredible really.

Sometimes people don't know there's an option until they are shown it.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 5:36pm

Chad ghostal wrote: »

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that he's referring to this:

Out of context, that is the opinion a lot of people have when anybody mentions depression. In context, I partly agree, but any decent gp knows his limits (in any area of medicine) and will advise a patient to seek specialist advice if they need it.

I'm more referring to the common useage of the word among people who don't actually suffer with depression and going to the doctor now for anti d's is much like a flu which is taken away from the serious nature of people who actually suffer with depression IMO

Chad ghostal wrote: »

As to what the gp should know, any gp I have seen had some sort of mental health training and afaik (I could be wrong) at least basic mental health training is provided during medical school.

I think you're missing the point here, do you consider basic mental health training enough to diagnose depression and perscripe a mind altering drug on basic mental health training? really?

Chad ghostal wrote: »

I realise there are a lot of gps who will happily write a prescription as soon as someone mentions they have been feeling down or going through a bad patch, but the majority of professionals know better.

Well I think one doing is enough, and IMO they shouldn't be allowed perscripe such a mind altering possibly life changing drug on "basic" training.

Chad ghostal wrote: »

at what point did anyone say this?

I said it, as it's happening.

Chad ghostal · 26-01-2011 5:56pm

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm more referring to the common useage of the word among people who don't actually suffer with depression and going to the doctor now for anti d's is much like a flu which is taken away from the serious nature of people who actually suffer with depression IMO

Yup, got that, but I was trying to explain what he had thought you had said.

ntlbell wrote: »

I think you're missing the point here, do you consider basic mental health training enough to diagnose depression and perscripe a mind altering drug on basic mental health training? really?

Nope, got the point completely. I am saying that most gps have enough training (and common sense) to decide if the patient need to see a specialist, in order to weed out people who are feeling down or who's mental state could be changed by less drastic measures.

ntlbell wrote: »

Well I think one doing is enough, and IMO they shouldn't be allowed perscripe such a mind altering possibly life changing drug on "basic" training.

Again I think that a professional would know the difference and should be allowed to prescribe low doses of anti-depressants in order to aid a patient who suffers from milder forms of depression. I would say that no gp be allowed to prescribe anti-d's indefinitely or even prescribe mild doses without the patient consulting a specialist, but again I believe any decent gp would/should know this.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 6:09pm

Chad ghostal wrote: »

Y
Nope, got the point completely. I am saying that most gps have enough training (and common sense) to decide if the patient need to see a specialist, in order to weed out people who are feeling down or who's mental state could be changed by less drastic measures.

I think that's an amazing assumption based on someone who's got "basic" training. Are you suggesting say your 17yr old daughter thought she was suffering depression

you're happy for someone with a very basic level of training to calculate the level by asking what are generally moronic questions, then choose a mind altering drugs that in a lot of cases can have devistating side affects to help her?

Wow. It really is no wonder the mental health treatment/systems in this country is a shambles.

Chad ghostal wrote: »

Again I think that a professional would know the difference and should be allowed to prescribe low doses of anti-depressants in order to aid a patient who suffers from milder forms of depression. I would say that no gp be allowed to prescribe anti-d's indefinitely or even prescribe mild doses without the patient consulting a specialist, but again I believe any decent gp would/should know this.

Well You seem, I'll say, very trusting.

Wibbs · 26-01-2011 6:11pm

Lumen wrote: »

If suicide was a reasonable response to poverty, humankind would be extinct.

Talk about missing the point entirely. I rarely use the following smiley but I will now. :rolleyes:

midlandsmissus wrote: »

They say everyone considers suicide at some point in their lives.

Yea you hear that, but I dunno about that, I really don't. IMHO Plenty of people never have. Plenty of people live content enough lives with little by way of dark periods. I'd say suicide ideation is in general a minority thing. I mean an actual ideation, not some 16 year old emo bloke screaming "I wanna diiiiiie" after he gets dumped(everyone has to be a little bit emo when you're a teenager. Its your job

).

I know I haven't, no matter how crap life may have gotten. I really really doubt I'm alone in that. Now if tomorrow I was told I had some hideous tumour that was going to render me in agony, zoned out on morphine in a hospice for weeks before I died, I'd be first in line to bite down on the cyanide pill at the first signs of the ignominious end, so I've no moral objection to suicide. I'd be the same if I was paralysed from the chin down I suspect.

Sapsorrow · 26-01-2011 6:13pm

My two cents would be to add not to be afraid of anti-depressents. I have known so many people to be completely horrified at the thought of being on a regulated, tried and tested dose of prescription medication under the supervision of a GP, and yet, due to their depression or general unhappiness/discontent have royally f*cked themselves up self-medicating using drugs, food and alcohol. If you really are having long-term and/or severe problems that you can't seem to work out by yourself, talk to your doctor and see if giving them a go is worth a try. Generally they want you to try them out for seven or so months and then it may take another 3 or so months to come back off them so it's not like it has to be forever. Also, if one type of meds doesn't suit you (either just not working or causing side effects) there are other types to try that may work for you. There's all this weird stigma about taking anti-depressents like it's equivalent to becoming a smack-head which I find worrying, they've helped me tremendously and the only side effects I suffer from are a bit of drowsiness a few times a day.

Lumen · 26-01-2011 6:29pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Talk about missing the point entirely. I rarely use the following smiley but I will now. :rolleyes:

Sorry, what was the point?

Chad ghostal · 26-01-2011 6:29pm

ntlbell wrote: »

I think that's an amazing assumption based on someone who's got "basic" training. Are you suggesting say your 17yr old daughter thought she was suffering depression

you're happy for someone with a very basic level of training to calculate the level by asking what are generally moronic questions, then choose a mind altering drugs that in a lot of cases can have devistating side affects to help her?

I'm sorry the gps you've met have been so incompetent to have skewered your view of everyone in the country, but yes any of medical professionals I have met have had the knowledge and training necessary to differentiate between depression and someone being sad.

"A lot of cases" ? I already explained that low doses were ok, the risks of even minimal side affects for low doses are very small, let alone life changing ones. If they are being dolled out left and right by these incompetent gps as you say the country would be devastated..

ntlbell wrote: »

Well You seem, I'll say, very trusting.

Well you seem, I'll say, very patronising and sceptical of any gp being able to act in a professional manner.

ntlbell · 26-01-2011 7:02pm

Chad ghostal wrote: »

I'm sorry the gps you've met have been so incompetent to have skewered your view of everyone in the country, but yes any of medical professionals I have met have had the knowledge and training necessary to differentiate between depression and someone being sad.

The problem is not about if their sad or not. Or depressed or not it's a GP is not a mental health profesional. The same way I don't bring my car to my GP to fix I wouldn't bring mental health problems to fix not because they're incomptent, it's because they don't have the necessary training or knowedlge to deal with mental health issues. something you can't seem to grasp.

Chad ghostal wrote: »

"A lot of cases" ? I already explained that low doses were ok, the risks of even minimal side affects for low doses are very small, let alone life changing ones. If they are being dolled out left and right by these incompetent gps as you say the country would be devastated..

Are you a GP? Do you work in a chemist? what do you know about what anti d's every GP in the country is given or the doseage? Again the GP's are not incomptent, their not mental health profesionals the same way they're not bloody car mechanics

Chad ghostal wrote: »

Well you seem, I'll say, very patronising and sceptical of any gp being able to act in a professional manner.

I am more than happy with my GP thank you, very competent. I just wouldn't be let my GP or any other treat me for something they're not designed to do. The same way I wouldn't let them stand all over my back if I was "offline".

Just to clear any mis understanding up, people should definitley if they feel the need talk to their GP about any mental health issues. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't but I would leave the treatment to someone trained to deal with it.

anyway I'm done. we're going nowhere with this.

kerryman12 · 26-01-2011 8:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

834 people have voted, 258 people have thanked the OP and currently 824 posts in this thread. When I first started this, I really had no idea of the impact it would have. It's incredible really.

Just shows how many people have been affected by depression in one way or another.

Chad ghostal · 27-01-2011 1:11am

ntlbell wrote: »

The problem is not about if their sad or not. Or depressed or not it's a GP is not a mental health profesional. The same way I don't bring my car to my GP to fix I wouldn't bring mental health problems to fix not because they're incomptent, it's because they don't have the necessary training or knowedlge to deal with mental health issues. something you can't seem to grasp.

You can't seem to grasp that I understand what your saying, but I disagree with it :rolleyes:

ntlbell wrote: »

Are you a GP? Do you work in a chemist? what do you know about what anti d's every GP in the country is given or the doseage? Again the GP's are not incomptent, their not mental health profesionals the same way they're not bloody car mechanics

I never said I did, I was discussing low doses, which have minimal side effects if any; you don't think they should be able to prescribe anything.. great.

Wibbs · 27-01-2011 1:21am

kerryman12 wrote: »

Just shows how many people have been affected by depression in one way or another.

Yes, or how a proportion think they have. There is that aspect too. However small that figure may be.

stupidusername · 27-01-2011 1:33am

The piece on the news the other day about the multiple suicides in Offaly, was it? That woman said it's not spoken about in the wider public, and it's not reported much, but the reason it's not reported much is something to do with being afraid more people will do it. I wonder is the same idea taken on in other countries? and if not, do people talk more openly about depression and mental health.

Lumen · 27-01-2011 7:41am

Has anyone linked to this yet?

Is Suicide Contagious? A Study of the Relation between Exposure to the
Suicidal Behavior of Others and Nearly Lethal Suicide Attempts

The answer is apparently "no", which goes against a lot of what I remember being reported in the media in the last couple of years.

mikeystipey · 27-01-2011 9:14am

kowloon wrote: »

The poll really does seem quite off, but I think an earlier poster is on to something when taking into account the time of year, internet and only people who find the thread relevant clicking into it.

Can I just say something about the survey please, and the possible impression that 80 or 85 percent of people reading here are depressed. Having studied Statistics a bit there is the concept of 'voluntary response bias', whereby people with a strong experience of something will vote, whereas people who don't have a strong experience may not. So what I mean is a lot of people reading this thread who have not suffered depression may not have cast a vote. Hence the rather shocking 80 percent stat.

Anyway enough of my cold statistics talk, this is an excellent thread and I hope it's providing some help to those suffering at the moment. I'm fortunate to never have been clinically depressed but have had my share of unhappy times, so I hope it's helping everyone to talk about things here

Odysseus · 27-01-2011 10:05am

ntlbell wrote: »

The problem is not about if their sad or not. Or depressed or not it's a GP is not a mental health profesional. The same way I don't bring my car to my GP to fix I wouldn't bring mental health problems to fix not because they're incomptent, it's because they don't have the necessary training or knowedlge to deal with mental health issues. something you can't seem to grasp.

Are you a GP? Do you work in a chemist? what do you know about what anti d's every GP in the country is given or the doseage? Again the GP's are not incomptent, their not mental health profesionals the same way they're not bloody car mechanics

I am more than happy with my GP thank you, very competent. I just wouldn't be let my GP or any other treat me for something they're not designed to do. The same way I wouldn't let them stand all over my back if I was "offline".

Just to clear any mis understanding up, people should definitley if they feel the need talk to their GP about any mental health issues. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't but I would leave the treatment to someone trained to deal with it.

anyway I'm done. we're going nowhere with this.

All GPs will have done a psych rotation, most psychs I know are happy for GPs to deal with what can be called a minor depressive episode. If it goes beyond that most GPs I know then make a psych referral. However, they are competent to treat it and have been trained to do so.

yahoo_moe · 27-01-2011 11:25am

Wibbs wrote: »

We are usually OK with someone terminally ill seeking to take the choice into their own hands, but what does terminal mean beyond the obvious? Practically speaking it means that your future is finite.

Everyone's future is finite. I'm not dragging up the whole argument again as nobody really moved much from their starting positions yesterday (and the start of the argument had little to do with depression as it turned out). But life itself is terminal by that definition. If you mean, 'finite and defined' (i.e. three months left to live), fair enough, but even those predictions can be significantly off.

Also, the poll obviously isn't representative... but if the numbers are accurate, there are 200 people potentially reading this with depression but who aren't seeking any help. Please do. Talk to your GP, dial a helpline, talk to a friend or loved one - you don't have to do it alone. Things can get better.

enda1 · 27-01-2011 1:11pm

I find it shocking that less than a quarter of people say they've never suffered from depression. How does that compare to medical belief on the true figures?

I wonder if many people tick depression when they may have gone through a period of sadness caused by loss or some such experience.

Wibbs · 27-01-2011 1:39pm

enda1 wrote: »

I find it shocking that less than a quarter of people say they've never suffered from depression. How does that compare to medical belief on the true figures?

mikeystipey explains it well I reckon...

mikeystipey wrote: »

Can I just say something about the survey please, and the possible impression that 80 or 85 percent of people reading here are depressed. Having studied Statistics a bit there is the concept of 'voluntary response bias', whereby people with a strong experience of something will vote, whereas people who don't have a strong experience may not. So what I mean is a lot of people reading this thread who have not suffered depression may not have cast a vote. Hence the rather shocking 80 percent stat.

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Everyone's future is finite. I'm not dragging up the whole argument again as nobody really moved much from their starting positions yesterday (and the start of the argument had little to do with depression as it turned out). But life itself is terminal by that definition. If you mean, 'finite and defined' (i.e. three months left to live), fair enough, but even those predictions can be significantly off.

Ah c'mon, the difference between the finite of an otherwise healthy 18 year old and a 18 year old quadriplegic is... well huge. So comparing the two is frankly bollocks.

enda1 wrote:

I wonder if many people tick depression when they may have gone through a period of sadness caused by loss or some such experience.

That would be my take and the figures of actual medical level depression are a lot lower.

Vicxas · 27-01-2011 1:46pm

Can i just ask, i dont know much about depression, but does it make you feel like you've no friends and no-one you can be close to?

Odysseus · 27-01-2011 10:52pm

enda1 wrote: »

I find it shocking that less than a quarter of people say they've never suffered from depression. How does that compare to medical belief on the true figures?

I wonder if many people tick depression when they may have gone through a period of sadness caused by loss or some such experience.

I have published a minor paper about this, when you speak of loss the symptoms of mourning are very close to the symptoms of depression, Freud was the first to write about this in 1915 in his paper Mourning and Melancholia, the big difference being what he described as "feeling of self-regard" or what some would call self-esteem today. All he did was note the similarities and from that viewpoint depression would be connected to an unconscious loss, though that is not to say it is the only view-point. It was just the case that he was the first to write about the the connections between loss and what was know at the time as melancholia.

Loss can be a factor in depression, one example being pathological mourning, or becoming depressed following the loss of a job or the ending of a relationship.

I have no stats to hand but figures will vary depending upon research methods, the definitions of exactly what a depressive disorder is, or what type is being researched. There is a significant difference mild, moderate and severe depressive episode. A case of severe depressive illness will generally require the person to be in a hospital and they may need treatments like ECT as well as meds.

All the criteria's though require a certain amount of symptoms to be present for more than a month. Any GP, psych or psychologist will be looking at how long the person has felt that way as well as how strong the content of it is.

However, you have hit upon the problem with self reports, the person self reporting may not know the difference whereas a mental health professional or a GP will.

Sadly though like many psychological terms depression is one of those terms that has become part of everyday language, and when this happens those terms may lose part of their original or professional meaning.

I did not think a thread like this would be helpful in AH when it started, but thankfully I think I was wrong, and the way that this thread has got people to speak openly about their mental health can only be a good thing. The only thing I would say to anybody who is asking the question am I depressed, go and speak to a professional, whether it’s their GP or a qualified therapist, in order to see a psychiatrist the person will need a referral from their GP, some will take referrals from a psychotherapist [I have a few who I will seen a client for me if I think the need is there], however, within the HSE the referral needs to come from the persons GP. Finally, if anybody is every feeling like they will harm themselves they can just present at A&E and ask to see a psychiatrist after they mention they feel like self-harming.

foxinsox · 28-01-2011 12:12am

Vicxas wrote: »

Can i just ask, i dont know much about depression, but does it make you feel like you've no friends and no-one you can be close to?

I'm no expert, but it can at times, even though you might be surrounded by many people, many good friends and family who all genuinely care for you.

I think one of the main problems is actually putting into words or describing to someone how you feel. Then when you don't talk to someone about how you feel you "hold it all in" is my way of explaining it.

You can't hold it all in, your brain/body is not meant to deal with stress on a long term basis.. it's like the fear you feel if you think you hear a noise downstairs and you are in the house by yourself, do you know that feeling?

Well, if you "store" feelings inside and not share them, it is like having that feeling all the time, but your brain doesn't know how to deal with it, because there is no physical threat anymore but your brain/feelings are still "on alert" all the time and then you can be unsure of whats going on.

Like a pressure cooker... something needs to give.. so when you talk to a professional, they know how to deal with this, just by talking a lot of the "pressure" is released, even if you think it is a load of rubbish, it does help to talk.

All of that might sound silly, but that's sometimes how I've explained it to friends/family and I think they kind of get it.

Odysseus · 28-01-2011 12:39am

foxinsox wrote: »

I think one of the main problems is actually putting into words or describing to someone how you feel. Then when you don't talk to someone about how you feel you "hold it all in" is my way of explaining it.

All of that might sound silly, but that's sometimes how I've explained it to friends/family and I think they kind of get it.

You have just described a good way of explaining psychotherapy, at the end of the day, from my position psychotherapy is about putting words on things. Others who work differently may diagree, but that is basically one of the ways I explain the one of the main aspects of psychotherapy.

yahoo_moe · 28-01-2011 10:30am

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah c'mon, the difference between the finite of an otherwise healthy 18 year old and a 18 year old quadriplegic is... well huge. So comparing the two is frankly bollocks.

I'm not comparing or equating the two at all - I just didn't think it's a great definition of 'terminal' as it was.

I get what you're saying overall, just clarifying the finite = terminal thing. Possibly pedantic, possibly necessary

Wibbs · 28-01-2011 12:08pm

Odysseus wrote: »

A case of severe depressive illness will generally require the person to be in a hospital and they may need treatments like ECT as well as meds.

Whatever about meds, IMHO ECT Electroconvulsive therapy/electro shock therapy is up there with quackery.

ntlbell · 28-01-2011 1:18pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Whatever about meds, IMHO ECT Electroconvulsive therapy/electro shock therapy is up there with quackery.

may aswell go the whole hog and bring back lobotomies

Depression

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