Learning more about shooting

Gerry.L

Ok I reckon this is a bit different then all the other "newbies" looking for help.

Ive a few guns myself- rifles and shottys. However to very honest with ya's lads. Even after nearly 10 years of shooting I still dont have much clue what Im at. But then again the only time I ever reach for the guns is if the rabbits get out of hand... or if theres a fox scaring the chickens. And the odd time (and I do mean odd) Id go out for a few pheasents.

THese days shooters seem to know a hell of a lot more about the guns and trajectories then I ever did growing up. Literally I was handed a shotgun and told "this is the cartridge.... this is the gun.. you load it like this... this is the safety... now see that bird overhead... aim the gun about 6 foot in front of him and pull the trigger" and then a similar lesson for the rifle. THere was no talk about lenghts of barrels, or twist rates or proper form. Or getting a rifle that "fits you" or anything like that.

I doubt people will admit it. But I think thats how alot of us learned. Just some of us (myself included) never really learned much else after that.

So wheres a good place to start learning and what should I learn. Ive a good mind to go up and buy a couple of different boxes of bullets, put up targets and see what each bullet is like and start taking notes.

ANd when Im at it I wouldnt mind getting a scope or would I be better just sticking with what I know- the iron sights. Also I dont know why, but I see a lot of people getting big calibers. Should I get rid of one of the 22's and see about getting a 303 or something.

gunhappy_ie

I doubt people will admit it. But I think thats how alot of us learned. Just some of us (myself included) never really learned much else after that.

So wheres a good place to start learning and what should I learn. Ive a good mind to go up and buy a couple of different boxes of bullets, put up targets and see what each bullet is like and start taking notes.

ANd when Im at it I wouldnt mind getting a scope or would I be better just sticking with what I know- the iron sights. Also I dont know why, but I see a lot of people getting big calibers. Should I get rid of one of the 22's and see about getting a 303 or something.

Gerry, firstly welcome and congrats on taking the first step toward learing more that will ultimatly lead to you shooting better, safer and with more fun.

I cant remember (not so long agi it feels anyway) sitting chatting with my uncle (major influence to me) and listening to him talk about calibres, aiming off (he once off the top of his head listed off what clicks were needed for shooting .17 cal past 150 yards or so) and not having a clue as to what he was on about.


So where did i start ..... boards like here are all over the internet. Books can be gotten on every subject matter for a variets of experts with there own conflicting opinions. Chatting to shooters on a range is also another invaluable resource.

Where should you start.... well it totally depends as to what you want to do.

Getting a few different boxes of ammo is a fantastic start. youll see how the barrel length and twist rate effects different brands and weights of ammo. If you put up a few targets, fire 5 rounds (slowly takng your time to relax and breathe) into each target with different ammo brands youll also see which gives the smallest group size.

Scope or irons ? IMO.. stick to what you know, theres plenty of time to buy a scope. and as you begin to learn more youll be able to hunt a bargin (perhaps picking it up second hand here) rather than forkin out money in your RFD with out checking prices.


Do you need to get a bigger calibre ? Again its up to you, personally a .22 is a great calibre to learn on and unless you want to go shooting to 300-600 yards with a .223 or join the Vintage and Classic Rifle Association of lreland to shoot a .303s in competition (both are great hunting calibres too by the way) then id say stay where you are ... learn learn learn and then decide what road you want to go down

hope that helps

FISMA

Gerry,
I noticed your thread wasn't getting many hits. I will offer up my 2 cents, which normally has the affect of setting the thread aglow!

Anyhow, please let us know what you have: shotgun, rifle, 12ga, 22lr, ...

Next tell us what you currently like to do (bunnies) and what you would like to do in the future (target, foxes, deer).

For right now, I would stay with the iron sights. I believe that you train without advantages (such as a scope) and that the addition of the scope later on makes you a better shooter.

Others, such as Mod Ez have made eloquent and equally convincing arguments that you should train from day 1 with as much advantage as possible.

Anyhow, if you tell us what your equipment and sport is, more than likely someone will tell you the general recommended optimum round. I would buy a bunch of boxes, shoot the h€ll out of the rifle, and have some fun.

Right now, you need to minimize the toughest variable - YOU! Once you are comfortable and get the gist of shooting, then you can start feeding your rifle different: brands, masses, and all.

Keep it simple for now. Although it may appear from some of the conversations on the board that a degree in ballistics Physics is required, it is most definitely not - practice and my gut trumps most any theory or equation out there.

Have some fun - get out there and track, learn to read the wind, and as questions arise, post here and we'll do our best to help.

In my life I have owned firearms of many different calibers, probably over 20. I still find that I love the 22LR and the 12ga. They are fundamentals and I can never imagine not owning them. The 12ga in particular as it can shoot any other round with those sleeves they make.

Anyhow, I also love the 30-06 and the 223. The 30-06 is a bit overkill for foxes and really limited to deer. The 223 is a nice round - versatile and cheap.

Good Luck

Gerry.L

Thanks for the advice guys...

Yeh its 12ga shotguns and 22lrs.

TBH with you Im not much of a shooter. THe guns could sit in the cabinet for 8 months at a time and that wouldnt be unusual.

Im not looking to start shooting every day either, or take up a new hobby with it. I just reckon that for all these years Ive being doing it I should be able to at least hold a conversation in the subject and just have a better idea on whats going on.

A few weeks back I got talking to a chap whos only just got his first gun a couple of months ago, and now maybe he was waffling, but for that half hour I was just sat there and hadnt a clue of anything he was talking about... minute of angle, burn rates, how different cleaners react with the steel. And what the different colours on your pull through means when your cleaning the barrel and a whole host of other stuff. Im at this how many years... and hes at this a few months... something needs to change.

Oh and I know what you mean about the degree in physics. Theres a good many topics on here that I get lost on in the first few posts.

I think I'll just take your advice guys and stick with the irons. I wouldnt mind getting a scope but to be honest they seem to be very fiddly. A few times I was looking through them and all I could see was black (eye relief Im told). And then trying to find the rabbit, I could see him by eye, but could I find him with the scope. I'd never have that problem with the irons. One of the cousins started with scopes a few years ago and he would lose his life if it got a bang on a tree or a fence or anything. And the same chap hes forever having to zero it in. Seems like a lot of messing and expense for someone thats got good eyesight.

ANyway thats enough waffling from me :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

Gerry

I was an avid reader from an early age, well before the Internet, or SKY TV.

I went to teh local libruary and found that believe it or not there was 4-5 books on all types of rifles and shotguns.

As the old saying goes "the more you know, the more you know that you don't know"

Scopes that are quality like Bushnell,Leupold,simmons-Zeiss,Nightforce,Swarovoski etc are relatively simple to set up <however we all have had help from time to time in setting up>

For your .22lr if you have €200 or so to spare you would get a decent scope and mounts to suit your rifle.
If you stick to one ammo type and weight you will rarely have to rezero.


4-16x50 is a good all round scope and will let you see a little bit better in low light that iron sights will, and in daylight on 16 magnification you would be able to drop rabbits that little bit further out and head shoot more of them.

If you ever want a bit of help I can say MNSCI is a great place as you will find lads there that can advise you in person (once you have insurance NARGC/IFA/Countryside alliance and carry your licence with you)
pay a small range fee and bring your own ammo to simplify things.


My father knows feck all about rifles, it was the grandfather I learned more from.

the Father sees a rifle/shotty as just another farm yard tool like a bucket of storm

Cass

Hello Gerry. Alot of the terms and "buzz words" you read or hear are non-important, do not relate to you, are not necessary for your style of shooting, etc. I understand the need/want to be able to take part in a conversation so all i can suggest is to use the interweb and try learn a few terms. If its a case of you feel you are missing out, you're not.

As FISMA knows i have had many a debate with him and others about using scopes over iron sights for beginners, but you do not fll into this category as you have used iron sights for years and a scope will only help you now rather than hinder you. But thats a debate for another day and thread. I've listed a few words below, but there are literally hundreds of them. Do not get too caught up with all this though.

A few key/buzz words for you.

• Ballistic Coefficient - The ability/efficiency of a bullet to travel through the air. These are expressed in numbers from 0.001 to1.000, and are unimportant to unless for a hunter/plinker.
• MOA(Clicks) - Minutes of Angle/adjustment. The settings of scopes are called clicks and minutes. Like 24 hours is a day so 4 clicks on a scope is a minute. This can vary from scope to scope with some being 8 clicks per minute, etc. Again no harm to know a basic understanding of these, but for detailed and precise adjustments it is unnecessary if you are not doing long range work.
• Twist rate - The rifling inside a rifled barrel. Usually expressed as the distance a bullet travels in a barrel to complete one full revolution. For example, 1:8, 1:10, 1:13. For percision target shooting this is vital. All good to know if you do semi-long range varminting as the twist rate of a rifle will determine the optimal bullet weight to shoot from that gun. A simple (but not always exact) guide would be the higher the twist rate the lighter the bullet. For example. A .308 calibr rifle with 1:13 twist will be the best results with a 155gr bullet, and a .223 with a 1:12 twist with get best results with a 40gr bullet. Its caliber dependant.
• Barrel length - Seems obvious enough but ties in directly with twist rate. For precision long range target work knowing your bullet weight, and twist rate is only of use if you can join them with the perfect barrel lenght. Again no so important for varminting guns or smallbore, but important none the less. Also personal choice has alot to do with it.
• Burn rates - This is a orecision thing again, and of no real importance for vermin hunters or plinkers. Its basically the length of time it takes for a powder in a bullet to completely burn and ties into barrel length above. If a shell has X amount of powder and burns fully before the bullet exits the muzzle there is a loss of power. Absolutely tiny, but a loss. Same as if the powder does not fully burn before the bullet leaves the mizzle. The head is not getting the full effect of the powder and the pressure created so therefore will not perform to its best as it is underpowered. So when i do my target work i choose a bullet that has optimal burn over 30" barrel to ensure as good a shot as possible.
• Variable/Fixed power Scope - Scopes come in a multitude of different settings. These include variable power and fixed power. Variable scope - All this means is the magnification of the scope can be zoomed in and out (as with any telescope or digital camera) to increase the target size (as such) and make holding your point of aim steadier. Fixed power - This is a scope that is fixed in its magnification power. For example an 8 power fixed scope means that its magnification power is 8 and cannot be changed or zoomed in or out.
• Elevation/Windage - Simply put the two adjustment dials on all scope. The move the crosshair up/down and left/right so you can zero the rifle.
• Zero - The distance at which you have set your rifle so that the bullet impacts where you have placed the crosshair. Unlike the movies you cannot simply lie down and put the crosshairs on different targets at different distances and hit them exactly. This is a necessary thing, but only for scope users.
• POA/POI - Point of Aim/Point of Impact. The difference, if any, of the place you aim at and the place you hit.
• Cleaning products - All you really need ito make sure your patches are coming out wet and clean, then dry. Job done.

I could go on, but i won't. (Stop smiling) My Father is in much the same position as yourself. He has been trying hard over the last few years to not only learn the stuff, but remember it and what it means. I often find him turning to me and asking what a specific term means and when i tell him he says "well why the f**k can't he just say that". .

Long story short. You have the basics and if you have been using the iron sights for this length of time then your next progressive step would be a scope. Do not fall or listen to all the crap about the stuff i listed above, but more to the point keep it simple. Go for a low powered scope or fixed power scope. Zero it and enjoy.

Do not be in any rush. If the iron sights are working stick with them until you feel comfortable enough to move on.

blackstairsboy

Gerry,
I literally thought myself everything I know about shooting. I bought magazines every month and books whenever I could. I have sporting gun magazines going back 8 years. I was introduced to shooting by people who like you only knew that the gun went bang when you pull the trigger. Men who only pick up the gun on Sunday afternoons from November to December. These would walk the same fields and rarely meet a pheasant. When I was bitten by the bug I knew there was more to the sport than this. I thought myself how to train dogs and decoy pigeons. I thought myself to shoot straight and find and hunt game. I would recommend that you broaden your knowledge and understanding of our sport. Books are the best for this and also magazines. These may seem pricey but are worth the investment as I look them up for references and also are very entertaining. I read them from cover to cover and I have a good understanding of branches of the sport that I have little interest in such as rifles. You cannot beat a good talk with an experienced sportsman though. I was lucky in knowing 2 or 3 men who are what I would term proper sportsmen. Not those described above who are set in their ways. Forums such as this are also an excellent source of information. I do not claim to be an expert as I am still learning and will continue to do so until the day I die. I am now beginning to rear pheasants and partridges and have lots to learn about that. I can help you with anything to do with pigeon shooting, rough shooting or springers. I have no experience of rifles but there are plenty of lads on here who do.

Gerry.L

THanks for the list Ezridax. THat cleared up some stuff all right.

Ive being doing some reading over the past few days and I have to say Ive learned a lot more in those few days then I have in all the years Ive being shooting. Some of the stuff isnt sinking in so well. But I reckon I'll get there in the end. And sure if Im really stuck I'm sure you guys will be able to break it down.

I can actually honestly say I never realised there was so much to shooting until the wee hours this morning. But like was said already, I think alot of this stuff wont really matter to me.

For me, so long as I can hit and kill a rabbit, I dont really care if the shot was a quarter of an inch left of where I was aiming. Obviously I do know that that quarter inch could make all the difference between hit and a miss... but sure if I miss then it just means hes escaped for another day.

I cant find it now, but I saw a video last night and there was a chap out shooting squirrels at 250-300 yards (think he had a 223) and he had a range finder, and some little wind gauge and he was writing down notes and comparing them to another chart he had and I have to admit he was taking some good shots. Some very good shots actually. But it hardly seemed worth it in the end.

Not that I shoot for fun in the first place, but I think going to all that bother would take the fun out of it- for me at least, I dont know about the rest of ye.

THanks for all the replys anyway lads. I think Im on the right track now.

FISMA

• Cleaning products - All you really need ito make sure your patches are coming out wet and clean, then dry. Job done.

EZ, you do not leave the barrel moist with either Hoppe's 9 or oil?

Often, I do not dry out the barrels. There's a bit of moisture, not enough to see running.

I always felt that it would be soaked in over time.

Also, when the spring cleaning comes, I have one rifle that always "sweat" that green-blue tell tale color of copper.

I agree the barrel should not be soaking, but how dry are you saying they should be?

Cass

I find it incredible that out of everything written above the only thing you find issue with is my statement which judging by your response to it you have taken out of context.

I said the patch should could out wet and clean. If you run patches down the barrel and they are dry they there will be fouling in the barrel that will not be removed. Keep the patcjes wet, until they run clean/clear.

If you don't agree with that fine, and if you get this;

FISMa wrote:

I have one rifle that always "sweat" that green-blue tell tale color of copper

Then the rifle is being put away dirty.

FISMA

Ez,
Actually, I was, as has been the case in the past, just looking for your advice and I am unsure why you took offense.

Sorry to have offended you.

I promise I will never request your advice or trouble you again.

Slan agus abhaille.

Cass

FISMA wrote: »

Ez,
Actually, I was, as has been the case in the past, just looking for your advice and I am unsure why you took offense.

Sorry to have offended you.

Well then you have my apologies. My inference was you were being cynical towards me. Also you have edited your post from its original form and the difference in wording makes it seem i was attacking.

I promise I will never request your advice or trouble you again.

Slan agus abhaille.

Fair enough.

clivej

Hi ya Gerry
here's my small bit of help. As you may know the 22lr bullet starts to drop in flight as soon as it leaves the barrel. I made up a chart a "Drop Chart" for the bullets that I use and find that it works well for the ammo I'm using and my rifle. Ammo is Laupu or Eley subsonic solids, the cheap stuff @€;5 a box.

The rifle is Zeroed at 50m - 55 yards meaning that is where each bullet will hit the bulls eye when the cross hair in the scope is on target.
So if I know that the rabbit is at 100yards then the bullet will drop 6.3 inches and so I have to aim that 6.3" highter to now be on the target and kill that rabbit.
Best shot I made was 140 yards head shot and on that shot I aimed 17.8" above for the kill.

The wind colunm is for a 10mph cross wind so you aim off to the side for that amount at that distance. Double the distance if it's 20mph and so on.

The up/down clicks refers to a telescopic sight if used and lets you know how many clicks to wind up/down the vertical cross hair in the scope to get you on target. It dose not apply to you as your using open sights.