Camera for sports photography

kensutz

ditpaintball wrote: »

That is simply not the case for sports photography, and even more so NIGHT sports photography. You need the equipment. All the photographer has to sit in the right spot, aim and click at the right time... basically.

You need 2.8 glass ( glass = lense) and a body than can handle ISO speeds of at least 2500 with out too much noise. At that you will get your 1/250 speeds just about, depending on the lights at the pitch.

Daytime its a whole different game, you can get away with F5.6 with 1/500 with ISO of 400 on a sunny day.

You need the equipment definitely but you need to know how to use it too. I've shot in all varieties of stadia ranging from top of the class facilities (Aviva, Wembley, etc.) to other venues where you're crying to find some sort of light. All while doing work for agencies. If you can't get the results from knowing your gear and how to operate it, you're in trouble. You could give someone a MKIV, 400 f/2.8 lens and see if they can operate it properly without knowing how they work.

ditpaintball

challengemaster wrote: »

You're kind of preaching to the wrong choir there.... considering Ken does sports photography day-in day-out

So I just seen, it's good to know there are a few pro's knocking about the forum. I shoot sports and event my day in day out my self.

So... back on topic....

civis_liberalis

Daytime shots are pretty good.

Link

Paulw

civis_liberalis wrote: »

How dare you!

I'll find out the camera model and what glass it was this evening.

They were taken under lights right on top of the pitch.

Ok, so from looking at this, and the examples, it does seem that it is down to you. That is not a damning criticism, but just a comment. We can all learn and improve.

You don't know what settings to use and how to get the most out of the camera.

As the guys have already said, really in floodlight conditions you would like to have f/2.8 lens. While a good stadium (Aviva, Croke Park, etc) you can get away with f/4.

Don't forget, as the aperture increases (f/4 to f/2.8) the shutter speed increases too.

As was said, you need to get 1/250 or faster to freeze the action. The higher the shutter speed, the more the action will be frozen.

Without shooting a lot, knowing your equipment well, knowing your sport, etc, you won't be able to get the images you really want.

Ken, City-Exile, and myself shoot sport frequently, and we're still learning. My shots are better this year than they were last year.

I wonder if you shot a game with my gear, and I shot with yours ... who would get the better shots, and why? It's not always the gear, and more often, it's just down to knowing what you're at.

civis_liberalis

Thanks for all that.

I won't take offence from any of it, as I didn't take any of the photos I posted. The guy can't find the ones I took.

I've taken all that on board and have noted it.

Paulw

civis_liberalis wrote: »

I won't take offence from any of it, as I didn't take any of the photos I posted. The guy can't find the ones I took.

None of what has been posted is intended to offend at all, and far from it, it's designed to encourage you. Get out there, start shooting, get to know the camera, get to know the setup, know the sport, and in no time at all, you'll be enjoying yourself. I can't promise stunning images, that's down to you.

mervifwdc

The bottom line is that to get high quality pictures in dark conditions (i.e. night shots) at long distances NEEDS what is known as fast long glass. that translates to something like:

300/f2.8 or 400/f2.8

shooting something closer still needs f2.8 but can be shorter focal length like:

70-200/f2.8
200/f2.8

just about any of the cameras above will be fine, the magic is in the lenses. keep an eye on the 2nd hand stuff in the various shops, and the various adverts that might come up on the on-line forums.


starting with a smaller budget is fine, but dont think you can buy something that will be as good as the lenses I've mentioned here. speed (large appertures (F4.0 or better - F2.8 or even F2) are expensive, and the only way to get the professional images.

ei1429

mrboswell wrote: »

My advice would be save money on the camera and invest in the lenses.

Sailing and watersports will require a long telephoto if you want to get close.

There is a new canon 400 2.8 coming out after xmas so I suspect a lot of 300 2.8 and older 400 2.8 lenses will be up for sale.

Might still be out of your range though.

I will second that, Spend the money on the lens. For soccer on the sideline you will be happy with 55-200 F2.8, Well worth the effort spending the money on the lense.
and also the lense will hold the value longer than the camera body
Regards
Bren

civis_liberalis

Paulw wrote: »

None of what has been posted is intended to offend at all, and far from it, it's designed to encourage you. Get out there, start shooting, get to know the camera, get to know the setup, know the sport, and in no time at all, you'll be enjoying yourself. I can't promise stunning images, that's down to you.

Thanks Paul,

Don't worry, I know just enough about photography to know that I know nothing about it in the grand scheme of things, so I won't take offence from anything said here.

All other advice has been greatly appreciated. I have a much better understanding of what is required and what should be achievable with the current gear.

dinneenp

I'd like to take more sports photos but have found/thought that unless I'm using a long zoom AND very quick lens I'm not really going to get the 'standard sport shot'- blurred background and player(s) in focus. Especially in you're in a stadium with people/stand in the background.

You end up with a very distracting background. And the lenses seem to cost an arm and a leg and another limb probably. I only have a 18-250 Pentax lens with 'standard' aperture range so not suitable for sports at all.

Here's some of my sports photos from my Flickr account. I took my camera to a Galway vs Liverpool game and found it very hard to get action shots- other players in the way, zoom too short etc. so I just ended up getting player profile shots instead...

I'm going to try some shots at a Connaught rugby game next. But will wait until March/April when the daylight will be better (they play evening games).
What I'll probably do it focus on the scrum, players faces, fine details so that I won't have the problem of background distracting me.

Good luck anyway.
Pa

Paulw

Faster shutter speed and smaller aperture will help the background blur. You want the subject closer to you and further from the background to do that.

You can shoot at f/4 and get a decent blur, but it's then distance dependent.

kensutz

If you have a distracting background then move around.

Paulw

kensutz wrote: »

If you have a distracting background then move around.

If you can. Then again, some venues have no clear backgrounds, and there is always some distraction there.

tororosso

Paulw wrote: »

If you can. Then again, some venues have no clear backgrounds, and there is always some distraction there.

Sorry to digress Paul but when in a large stadiium is it not the case that you are assigned a specific spot from where you can take the photos or is this initially the photographers decision? I can just imagine a bunch of photographers scrapping over the best spot :pac: Wasnt it mentioned before that you can't take photos of crowds during matches so blurring out the background becomes crucial in these circumstances..

kensutz

Millennium Stadium is the only venue where I've been told to sit in a particular spot. Croke Park, Aviva, Wembley gave you an end to sit in and it's up to you to pick the right spot. Getting the best spot is down to being in the ground early and claiming your space. In the World Cup, photographers were in the stadium up to 8 hours before kick off.

Paulw

tororosso wrote: »

Sorry to digress Paul but when in a large stadiium is it not the case that you are assigned a specific spot from where you can take the photos or is this initially the photographers decision? I can just imagine a bunch of photographers scrapping over the best spot :pac: Wasnt it mentioned before that you can't take photos of crowds during matches so blurring out the background becomes crucial in these circumstances..

Never heard before that you can't take picts of the crowd. A blurred background just looks better to focus on the main action. Crowd picts are fairly common actually.

In general, as Ken said, you sit where you want, depending on allocation. For major events, you can be assigned an end, but it would be unusual to be given an actual seating allocation. Different sports, different venues have different rules and ways to seat photographers. For most, it's first come, first served.

tororosso

kensutz wrote: »

Millennium Stadium is the only venue where I've been told to sit in a particular spot. Croke Park, Aviva, Wembley gave you an end to sit in and it's up to you to pick the right spot. Getting the best spot is down to being in the ground early and claiming your space. In the World Cup, photographers were in the stadium up to 8 hours before kick off.

Yeah I always imagined that some established photographers might try to push other photographers out of the way by saying that they were in their spot! That sounds far more relaxed than I took it for but you have experienced it and it is nice to know what it is like in these situations. I cannot fathom spending 8 hours for a match though :eek: What's your favourite place to take photos out of the stadiums you mentioned above?!

Paulw wrote: »

Never heard before that you can't take picts of the crowd. A blurred background just looks better to focus on the main action. Crowd picts are fairly common actually.

In general, as Ken said, you sit where you want, depending on allocation. For major events, you can be assigned an end, but it would be unusual to be given an actual seating allocation. Different sports, different venues have different rules and ways to seat photographers. For most, it's first come, first served.

I am sure I read it on this forum in the past. Thought it might be particularly related to Croke Park. I see you have a nice one on your site of Leinster fans with the flags (RDS?) Agreed that the blurred background is ideal as it looks better for action photos.

Paulw

tororosso wrote: »

I am sure I read it on this forum in the past. Thought it might be particularly related to Croke Park. I see you have a nice one on your site of Leinster fans with the flags (RDS?) Agreed that the blurred background is ideal as it looks better for action photos.

I think it more relates to GAA (specifically) in Croke Park. I think those flag picts you're talking about were in Croke Park (Leinster V Munster), Heineken Cup semi-final.

kensutz

tororosso wrote: »

Yeah I always imagined that some established photographers might try to push other photographers out of the way by saying that they were in their spot! That sounds far more relaxed than I took it for but you have experienced it and it is nice to know what it is like in these situations. I cannot fathom spending 8 hours for a match though :eek: What's your favourite place to take photos out of the stadiums you mentioned above?!.

For the Autumn internationals in the Aviva I was there 3 hours+ before kick off. I tend to be in the ground min 2 hours before kick off so I can get myself ready, laptop prepped, spot reserved, food and drink and relax. It also helps to avoid the crowds who tend to go to the games in the 90 mins leading up to the game.

Best venue to shoot in, Wembley for facilities, Millennium Stadium purely for atmosphere, Carrow Road for pure bias and Aviva for facilities and lighting etc.

City-Exile

In fairness, Ken, The Emirates was class!

kensutz

Totally forgot about The Emirates. Absolutely top notch, and the best facilities and after match food ever!

Professional Snapperc

kensutz wrote: »

Best venue to shoot in, Wembley for facilities, Millennium Stadium purely for atmosphere, Carrow Road for pure bias and Aviva for facilities and lighting etc.

Can I ask when you were working in Wembley and Carrow Road? Do you mind if you post a link to a few pics as I'd love to see them. Thanks Ken.

dave66

Professional Snapperc wrote: »

Can I ask when you were working in Wembley and Carrow Road? Do you mind if you post a link to a few pics as I'd love to see them. Thanks Ken.

Wow, that sounds awful like you don't believe that Ken is a pro and shoots at the venues he mentions.

I know for a fact he works as a pro and have seen him at a number of Leinster matches, I've also seen his work from many different venues.

Paulw

Professional Snapperc wrote: »

Can I ask when you were working in Wembley and Carrow Road? Do you mind if you post a link to a few pics as I'd love to see them. Thanks Ken.

They're most likely to be seen on his website. In many cases, licensing limits where images can be posted. Like IRFU international games restrict where images can't be used, which is why any of us who do shoot at such events don't post picts here.

Professional Snapperc

dave66 wrote: »

Wow, that sounds awful like you don't believe that Ken is a pro and shoots at the venues he mentions.

I know for a fact he works as a pro and have seen him at a number of Leinster matches, I've also seen his work from many different venues.

No, I wasn't saying that Ken makes up a lot of what he says. I would just like to see a few pics that he took from Wembley and Carrow Road, thats all.

Paulw wrote:

They're most likely to be seen on his website. In many cases, licensing limits where images can be posted. Like IRFU international games restrict where images can't be used, which is why any of us who do shoot at such events don't post picts here.

No, they're not there. Pity because I would really like to see them. Maybe he could let us know which agency he was working for and I could have a look there?

whyulittle

kensutz wrote: »

Totally forgot about The Emirates. Absolutely top notch, and the best facilities and after match food ever!

I was just off the plane from Australia, and my god those hot pies went down well that night!!

kensutz

They were awesome.

Professional Snapperc

kensutz wrote: »

They were awesome.

Surely Ken you're not telling lies about working at Wembley and Carrow Road?
Where are the pictures Ken, will you not think of the children?

Paulw

Professional Snapperc wrote: »

Surely Ken you're not telling lies about working at Wembley and Carrow Road?

No, he's not telling lies. I've looked at the picts. Some very good shots.

Maybe if you want to see them, you should send Ken a private message and ask your questions. They don't really relate to the thread in any way.

Then again, since you're a "professional snapper", where are your picts?

City-Exile

You're all getting very bitchy altogether.
Here are my pictures from Wembley. Free for everyone to look at them.

kensutz

You want proof? Wembley Cup - Melissa Payne was the media officer for the event. Reported to Natasha Denman in level B2 which was just left of security when you head in. There's wired network slots located all around the pitch with boxes full of cables if you need to plug in, unlike the Aviva that you need to bring a 40ft+ cable with you if you want to wire up.

Carrow Road - media officer is Joe Ferrari. Shot a pre-season game there 3 years ago. Under DataCo regulations for both events, you need a licence which costs £1500 sterling to allow items to be published on your website. If you want to verify that, ring DataCo and stop ****ing pissing me off.

If you want to stalk someone else, go ahead.

CabanSail

This thread seems to be way off topic.

Please get back on topic here or it will be closed.

Other subjects that have arisen can be discussed in new threads.

soccerc

Professional Snapperc wrote: »

Surely Ken you're not telling lies about working at Wembley and Carrow Road?
Where are the pictures Ken, will you not think of the children?

No he's not lying.

I too have shot in UK football grounds, English and Scottish and hold an FA Premier Licence issued by DataCo

Can we see some of your sports shots? Please;)

Professional Snapperc

kensutz wrote: »

Reported to Natasha Denman in level B2 which was just left of security when you head in.

Snapper is a fish.
It's actually B1.
Pre-Season friendlies are not covered under DataCo regulations.
One pic would make me happy Just one.

kensutz

Payne, Melissa to
show details 7/23/09

Further to the below note:

All written press & radio should report to Stéphanie Morel +44 (0) @ level B2 right of security.

All photographers should report to Natasha Denman @ level B2 left of security.

All TV crews, please call me on arrival.

Melissa
.

Now cya! Ignore is a great tool.