Babys last name

LegacyUser

Me and my girlfriend became parents for the first time a few weeks ago to a beautiful baby girl. All is going well thankfully except we cant agree on the childs last name for the birth cert. I want it to be mine and she wants it to be her's or double-barrelled. Im absolutly fuming over this. I always imagined and just assumed that my children would share the same last name as me.

Where I grew up anyone with their mothers last name either didnt know a father, their parents were not together or they were scamming the welfare (no offence to anyone with their mothers name) none of which is a situation we are in and I will always be involved with our child regardless of what happens.
The double-barrelled name just sounds **** and with her name being first I fear my name will just be dropped.

She has said the main reason for this is because we are not married nor engaged and she ''just wants it that way'', although we have been together 6 years and now own a house. I dont think its a ploy to force me to propose, she would not be petty, especially when it comes to something as important as our childs name and we are still young (22 and 23) so marriage is not on the agenda yet. I really cant see her point of view on this and I am very open minded about things.

I cant talk to anyone about it, my friends, some of whom are fathers will tell me to grow a pair and my parents will be pissed off, they, like me, always assumed the last name was a giving.

Has anyone been in this situation before or have any advice, I know its not as serious as most threads in here but any advice would be welcome.

Ickle Magoo

Moved from PI - think you'll get better advice here OP.

amdublin

Okay not completely what you want but I think double barrelled is a good compromise here.

username123

babyname wrote: »

I always imagined and just assumed that my children would share the same last name as me.

And she seems to imagine or assume the same thing.
Would she take your name upon marraige?

The only option here is compromise. From both sides. There are a few options.

Double Barrell.
Children keep her name until marraige at which point they get your name (unless she doesnt take your name upon marraige).
Male children get your name, female children get her name.

Dont really agree on your point about children with mothers last name meaning that father is not involved or family scamming social welfare. Since single motherhood lost its stigma and divorce was made legal in Ireland there are many variations out there and no one really cares what surname a child has so long as they can identify the child. I know one family where 3 children all have different surnames, first child has mothers single name, second child (by same father) has mothers married name, and third child has 2nd husbands married name!!

I can see your GFs point as long as ye are not married though as from a practical perspective there can be questions asked in airports if child surname is different to the mothers, and it can lead to some confusion in schools, doctors etc... where people just assume mother and child have the same surname.

Although the same applies if a woman doesnt change her name upon marraige - there can be confusion about names.

Does any of it make a real difference? You are still the childs father no matter what the name is.

metrovelvet

I totally agree with you OP. No one else will though. I think double barrelled names are ****.

You own a house together, have a baby together, been together six years, but not ready for marriage. LOL. Without the social contract in place you cannot assume these privaleges. Sorry.

metrovelvet

username123 wrote: »

And she seems to imagine or assume the same thing.
Would she take your name upon marraige?

The only option here is compromise. From both sides. There are a few options.

Double Barrell.
Children keep her name until marraige at which point they get your name (unless she doesnt take your name upon marraige).
Male children get your name, female children get her name.

Dont really agree on your point about children with mothers last name meaning that father is not involved or family scamming social welfare. Since single motherhood lost its stigma and divorce was made legal in Ireland there are many variations out there and no one really cares what surname a child has so long as they can identify the child. I know one family where 3 children all have different surnames, first child has mothers single name, second child (by same father) has mothers married name, and third child has 2nd husbands married name!!

I can see your GFs point as long as ye are not married though as from a practical perspective there can be questions asked in airports if child surname is different to the mothers, and it can lead to some confusion in schools, doctors etc... where people just assume mother and child have the same surname.

Although the same applies if a woman doesnt change her name upon marraige - there can be confusion about names.

Does any of it make a real difference? You are still the childs father no matter what the name is.

Eh... people do assume you have the same surname as your child but the double barrel wont stop that. I get mail addressed to MRS 'DOUBLE BARRELL'.

ted1

as a father i insisted on my daughter taking my name. Double barrel is a load of bull. When your child has a child do you expect their child to have a treble or quad barrel name.

matrim

username123 wrote: »

I can see your GFs point as long as ye are not married though as from a practical perspective there can be questions asked in airports if child surname is different to the mothers, and it can lead to some confusion in schools, doctors etc... where people just assume mother and child have the same surname.

Just to play Devil's Advocate on this, the same issues apply to the father. If the name is different he might have problems going through the airport, at doctors etc with his kid.

In fact, it's likely that he would have more issues than she would as a woman and child is likely to be looked at with less suspicion than a man and a child.

Does any of it make a real difference? You are still the childs father no matter what the name is.

This is the main point. Are you going to love your child any less if they don't have your name. You need a serious discussion about this with your partner about what you are going to do with any future kids, marriage etc.

amdublin

ted1 wrote: »

as a father i insisted on my daughter taking my name.

Jaysis you sound a double barrel of laughs

What about if your partner as a mother had insisted on both your daughter taking her name


OP how about hybrid?
Eg. Ms Murphy and Mr Ryan = baby Myan or Baby Rurphy

Ms Sweeney and Mr Corcoran = baby Sweecoran or baby Corcney

And you could even both take on the hybrid name too.

January

I don't think you should be worrying about the name, double barrel it (maybe ask if your name can be put first instead? So it's Child YourName-HerName instead of the other way around).

When the child does have the birth cert, I'd be more worried about getting yourself appointed guardian of your child because as an unmarried father you are not automatically given guardianship whether your name is on the birth cert or not.

pickarooney

How on earth did you get this far without discussing this?

You really can't see her point of view although it is apparently the exact same as yours?
Nothing in your post suggests you are open-minded about anything; you seem to have a fairly bigoted view of people who don't fit your notion of how someone should be named, to be honest.

You want it one way, she wants it another. It's really not that important and there's no realistic compromise so just agree to draw lots for it and accept the outcome. You're in for 20-odd years of not getting to do what you want now so you might as well start getting used to it.

mydearwatson

Any couples I have ever known who have had a child outside of marriage have given the baby the mother's name. I know there's no hard and fast rule about it, and it definitely should be up to each couple to decide on it for themselves, but in my experience at least this seems to be the way it's usually done, regardless of how serious the couple's relationship is.

babyname wrote: »

I want it to be mine and she wants it to be her's or double-barrelled. Im absolutly fuming over this. I always imagined and just assumed that my children would share the same last name as me.

See at least she's willing to compromise and consider the double-barrelled name - it's probably not her preference at all, but she's willing to meet you halfway, and it sounds like you're not willing to do even that! I don't see why you're the one fuming, not her?! Don't you think that, like you, she's always assumed that her children would share her last name?

Personally I'm in my late twenties and in a very happy long-term relationship. If I were to become pregnant, and carry a child for nine months before giving birth to it, then yes I would absolutely want that baby to share my name, and I'd feel quite strongly about this. It would seem unnatural to me to have a child with a different name to mine. I'm very well aware that the baby would be every bit my partner's as much as mine, regardless of whether we stayed together or not, and if we were to ever split up I would feel very strongly about him having equal guardianship of the child - that wouldn't ever change. And if I ever got married, I would either keep my name the same as the baby's, or perhaps change both of our names to my husbands. But illogical as it may sound, I just really hate the idea of my baby having a different name to me ... it would feel like (s)he wasn't really "mine", somehow.

Reading the above paragraph, I realise that an awful lot of what I've just said could equally be argued by a father - e.g. that it seems unnatural to have a child with a different name, etc. I know that my argument seems based on emotional reasons rather than logical. But I suppose my point is that your girlfriend has her own reasons for wanting the child to have her surname, and I don't see why you feel any of your reasons are more valid than hers!

But even on practical terms - chances are that, as the mother, I would be the one bringing the child to most of the early doctors appointments etc (simply because I'd be the one on maternity leave.) And even as the child gets older, and goes to school, I feel that it's very common these days to come across a father with a different surname to his child, no one thinks anything of it - it's an awful lot less common to see a mother with a different surname to the child, I would imagine it's more likely to raise questions and maybe create problems.

I agree with you that a lot of double-barrelled names don't sound right, and chances are one name will eventually be dropped for the sake of simplicity. But the fact is that this is a situation where both of you can't be entirely happy with the outcome, no matter what you decide. I can't help but think that a lot of your reasons are to do with what the neighbours will say, what your parents will think, etc. Personally I don't see why that stuff matters! You have a lovely healthy baby, and you're in what I assume is an otherwise happy relationship with her mother. Why not just put both names on the birth certificate, but call her by her mother's name - leaving the option for her to choose which name she'd rather go by as she gets older? It just seems to me that after all the stress of being pregnant and giving birth, and with all the hard work involved for both of you in looking after a young baby, arguments are the last thing either of you need.

And yes, that suggestion is probably biased, based on my above reasons for why I, as a woman, would want my baby to have my name. Just trying to give another point of view though!

astra2000

Hi op you could put double barrell name on birth cert but child could be known by just your last name if that your gf agreed.

amiable

mydearwatson wrote: »

Any couples I have ever known who have had a child outside of marriage have given the baby the mother's name. I know there's no hard and fast rule about it, and it definitely should be up to each couple to decide on it for themselves, but in my experience at least this seems to be the way it's usually done, regardless of how serious the couple's relationship is.

I must be the exception to the rule so cos I'm not married but my kids have my surname and my partner is quite happy and content with this.
OP i'd suggest you both calm down and relax and discuss it properly like adults. Maybe get a babysitter and have a nice relaxing night out together. But i must say at the end of the day the baby being happy and healthy is a million times more important than the name.

CrazyRabbit

Make up a new last name. You can put any first/last name you want on a birth cert.

Or, instead of a double barrelled name, is it possible to use one of the parents surnames as a middle name?

E.g: Michael Casey Moore, instead of Michael Casey-Moore.

Of course, that depends totally on the two surnames.

Otherwise, I suggest you put both names into a hat and have someone draw one.

January

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Make up a new last name. You can put any first/last name you want on a birth cert.

That information is wrong.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/after_your_baby_is_born/registering_birth_your_baby.html

Surname. Since October 1997, a surname for the baby is registered when the birth is being registered. The surname registered must be the surname of the father or mother or both. If you want your child to have a surname other than the surname of the father or mother or both, then an application must be made to the Registrar General or a Superintendent Registrar in writing.

Kildrought

Am I the only person to wonder how the couple consider themselves not ready/too young for marriage but quite ready for a baby?

January

Kildrought wrote: »

Am I the only person to wonder how the couple consider themselves not ready/too young for marriage but quite ready for a baby?

This is not relevant to the discussion. Unhelpful or off topic posting could result in a ban.

FatherTed

Kildrought wrote: »

Am I the only person to wonder how the couple consider themselves not ready/too young for marriage but quite ready for a baby?

Fittle

What about double barrell with your name first?

To be very honest, even though you are together 6yrs, have bought a house and now have a child together, you don't sound very committed to your girlfriend or child, when you say marriage is not on the cards. Perhaps your girlfriend feels this way, and is discouraged from using your surname in case you aren't around for the forseeable future?
...."and I will always be involved with our child regardless of what happens"

That bit of your post jumped off the page at me...

FatherTed

For the OP, why are you two deciding now? Why did you not have this sorted before the baby was born? You had like 8-9 months to figure it out. If you eventually want to marry her you need to tell her that and how you would like to have all 3 of you with the same name in due course. Failing that, you'll just have to suck it up and compromise with the double-barrel.

LegacyUser

Kildrought wrote: »

Am I the only person to wonder how the couple consider themselves not ready/too young for marriage but quite ready for a baby?

Op here.

We are ready for marriage, we could get married tommorow, as I said though it not on the agenda. No rush to have a big party. We have a child, a home and 6 years together which are bigger commitments. A baby needs a happy stable home with both parents (IMO) Not a marriage cert.

Thanks for all the advice so far folks. Its giving me alot to think about especially ''mydearwatson'' that was a good post and opened my eyes some what.

Shelli2

We have both names on our son's birthcert, but we rarely use both. He can choose his own when the time comes.

From a practical side, for unmarried parents I would suggest putting both on the birthcert and passport, purely to avoid official complications. We used only one name on our sons passport and it causes untold problems when the other parent is out with him, doctors, hospitals, airports.....and many other places....if the childs ID shows a different surname to the parents it can get very tricky!!

Kimono-Girl

we are not married (yet) and when it came to naming our daughter we were looking over these points.

i don't like double barrelled, its a short term fix, if you were to keep going you are going to end up with people who's names wouldn't fit on a A3 page nevermind a birth cert!

it turns out just so you know, if the baby does have her name, and you two were to get married sometime in the future, your wife would then have your name which would then be different from her child,


we, with this in mind used my partners surname, it makes no difference to the relationship i have with my daughter, doctors/schools...etc have not made any comments on why her name is different to mine, in fact no-ones batted an eyelid on the matter!

amiable

Shelli2 wrote: »

We have both names on our son's birthcert, but we rarely use both. He can choose his own when the time comes.

From a practical side, for unmarried parents I would suggest putting both on the birthcert and passport, purely to avoid official complications. We used only one name on our sons passport and it causes untold problems when the other parent is out with him, doctors, hospitals, airports.....and many other places....if the childs ID shows a different surname to the parents it can get very tricky!!

I'm not trying to undermine what you just posted but my partner travels with our kids and never has a problem with having a different surname to them. Maybe we've just been lucky.
OP try not to get heated about the subject. It doesn't help and maybe you and your partner can work something out. I have a feeling she would really like a committment from you and this could smooth things over for you

Das Kitty

OP I think you need to discuss with your partner. She's not being petty so she must have a reason for feeling strongly about it. Perhaps if you both laid your feelings on the table you could come to a decision. Put yourself in her shoes and hopefully she can do the same for you.

January

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

we are not married (yet) and when it came to naming our daughter we were looking over these points.

i don't like double barrelled, its a short term fix, if you were to keep going you are going to end up with people who's names wouldn't fit on a A3 page nevermind a birth cert!

it turns out just so you know, if the baby does have her name, and you two were to get married sometime in the future, your wife would then have your name which would then be different from her child,


we, with this in mind used my partners surname, it makes no difference to the relationship i have with my daughter, doctors/schools...etc have not made any comments on why her name is different to mine, in fact no-ones batted an eyelid on the matter!

With regards to this, if you do get married then the child's name can be changed too.

From Citizens Information:

For births on or after 5 December 2005, parents who marry each other after the birth may re-register the birth to reflect their marital status, and may change the child's surname.

axer

babyname wrote: »

Op here.

We are ready for marriage, we could get married tommorow, as I said though it not on the agenda. No rush to have a big party. We have a child, a home and 6 years together which are bigger commitments. A baby needs a happy stable home with both parents (IMO) Not a marriage cert.

Thanks for all the advice so far folks. Its giving me alot to think about especially ''mydearwatson'' that was a good post and opened my eyes some what.

You should look up the tax benefits of getting married - it could be worth your while.

Have had this discussion with my gf and we are not in full agreement yet. The problem is why should she (or any potential children) take my name over hers or hers over mine? Tradition? Culture? They don't seem like strong arguments to me. They just sound like "just because" arguments. Dont know what we will do when we get married and/or have kids.

lonestargirl

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

it turns out just so you know, if the baby does have her name, and you two were to get married sometime in the future, your wife would then have your name which would then be different from her child,

Assuming the mum changes her name when she gets married. My parents are married (and were when we were born) but my mother didn't change her name and we all have my dad's surname. I have to say it has never caused any practical problems over the years. I am married but didn't change my name and our son will have my husband's name.

username123

babyname wrote: »

We are ready for marriage, we could get married tommorow, as I said though it not on the agenda. No rush to have a big party.

Why do you have to have a big party to get married? You can do it by yourselves in the registry office for 150 euro.

babyname wrote: »

We have a child, a home and 6 years together which are bigger commitments. A baby needs a happy stable home with both parents (IMO) Not a marriage cert.

I disagree with this. There are benefits to both you and your child if you marry. Inheritance law, tax law, legal rights and entitlements. In this country an unmarried father has little or no rights to his child - just read around this website for proof of that. Family are protected in law - family being a married couple. I fail to see how a house, which is purely a financial committment, outweighs a marriage which is a morally and legally binding contract.

Would your GF take your name upon marriage? And if she would, would she be happy for your children to also have your name? It does seem a bit odd that you are willing to have a house together, 6 years of a relationship, a child together but not to get married. What difference does it make that ye are still young if you plan to stay together anyway?

And if she wouldnt take your name upon marriage (or want the children to have it) - what then?

LostinKildare

lonestargirl wrote: »

Assuming the mum changes her name when she gets married. My parents are married (and were when we were born) but my mother didn't change her name and we all have my dad's surname. I have to say it has never caused any practical problems over the years. I am married but didn't change my name and our son will have my husband's name.

Same here. I didn't change my name when I got married, and our son (born after we were married) has his father's surname.

However, my surname is our son's middle name, so from the birth cert, passports, etc. it's clear that we are both his parents.

This is fairly common in the US, where many more women keep their own names when they marry. (I'm American, and we got married and had our child in the US.) It hasn't caused any problems since we moved to Ireland either, though I don't know anyone else here who has done the same.