Babys last name

Banjaxed82

I don't know what countries, hospitals or doctors you've been going to but I've never experienced anything like that.

Also, as a man, if you want to avoid double-barrel names, just put your surname as a middle name on your child's passport.

This is all a little extreme to be honest.

Squiggler

Actually, I agree with smccarrick. I think that the child having the father's last name is becoming more important than it was before, not less. Fathers are the ones suffering most from all the media attention on pedophilia and child abuse.

There are two cases that spring to mind immediately. One father who was attacked because he tried to take a photograph of his own children on a playground slide and another who was heavily questioned after his 6 year old daughter kissed him in a swimming pool. Both of these were in the UK but that is the kind of world we're dealing with. And there was a recent one where a headmaster (again UK) in a primary school banned any photography at the Christmas Concert (even of just a parents own children) for fear that photos (taken by parents) might end up in the hands of paedophiles.

How much more difficult for any man unfortunate enough not to share his children's last name? Where that last name comes from is up to the two parents to agree on. They have the freedom to chose his name, her name, a combination, an entirely new name...

Oh, and I'm a woman.

amiable

Squiggler wrote: »

Actually, I agree with smccarrick. I think that the child having the father's last name is becoming more important than it was before, not less. Fathers are the ones suffering most from all the media attention on pedophilia and child abuse.

There are two cases that spring to mind immediately. One father who was attacked because he tried to take a photograph of his own children on a playground slide and another who was heavily questioned after his 6 year old daughter kissed him in a swimming pool. Both of these were in the UK but that is the kind of world we're dealing with. And there was a recent one where a headmaster (again UK) in a primary school banned any photography at the Christmas Concert (even of just a parents own children) for fear that photos (taken by parents) might end up in the hands of paedophiles.

How much more difficult for any man unfortunate enough not to share his children's last name? Where that last name comes from is up to the two parents to agree on. They have the freedom to chose his name, her name, a combination, an entirely new name...

Oh, and I'm a woman.

Oh well that makes it different so

Squiggler

amiable wrote: »

Oh well that makes it different so

I added that after the edit in case it was assumed that I was some caveman who thought that it was important that all my belongings were clearly labelled, as has been suggested by others in this thread. :rolleyes:

Dades

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

I have three kids (one before marriage) & none of them, including my wife, have my name.

Did you have no interest at all in them taking your name, or are you now just comfortable with the way things were decided?

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

What's the big deal? I want to know what are the GENUINE reasons for men insisting on their last name being the one and only? Lord God, I hope it's beyond *thumps hairy chest* I am man. Child is mine. Must tell world this is MY child!!

My son is the only grandson in my family (and will almost certainly remain so), therefore stands the biggest chance of passing on the family name. There's others in my wife's family that can look after their end of things. I like the idea of families that be traced back through a name.

I hate the concept of double-barrel names, but I really like the idea of using one party's surname as a middle name.

ger vallely

Hi OP, myself and my now husband (then boyfriend) had 2 children outside of marriage. They both started out with double barrel names. We got a tad confused tough, no.1 had my name first, his second and no.2 had his name first, mine second!It caused minor confusion at airports but nothing too bothersome. Throughout school it caused no real bother either, we just went with whatever we felt like on the day! Now we are married and we all have his surname. Maybe we are too easy going and have other bothers to worry about but it need not be a major cause for concern. This year will see the first time the kids will have their own passports so that will be a little red tape and then that's it. They were always amised by the situation and it never interfered with school,library membership, doctors or the like. I hope you both sort this out and get on with the business of having a laugh about it all. Good luck.

Moonbeam

From another point of view it sucks growing up in a house where everyone has a different surname.
I dreamt of living in a house where everyone had the same surname at times so when people were sending christmas cards etc they didn't have to put 3 surnames on the card to make everyone included!
Probably half the reason I use 1st names only most of the times in addressess!
My kids have their dads name because if there is ever a marriage then we will all have the surname again and also daddys have so little entitlements the least we could do is give them his surname.There is a chance I will live to regret it but can deal with it if it ever comes to it.

amiable

Dades wrote: »

Did you have no interest at all in them taking your name, or are you now just comfortable with the way things were decided?

My son is the only grandson in my family (and will almost certainly remain so), therefore stands the biggest chance of passing on the family name. There's others in my wife's family that can look after their end of things. I like the idea of families that be traced back through a name.

I hate the concept of double-barrel names, but I really like the idea of using one party's surname as a middle name.

Lineage can cause so many problems. Its caused alot of arguements within families. IMO its not the end of the world

ztoical

Lads it's a name and a surname at that. 'Carry on the family name' unless it's a really odd name who cares? We aren't living in clans anymore. Be glad we aren't in Spain were you could end up with 10 names [though the Spainish traidtion of using both maternal and paternal names might be suited]. I've family on both sides who've had kids out of marraige, married, had kids, divorced, remarried, had more kids. You've surnames all over the place and it makes no lick of difference.

Squiggler wrote: »

There are two cases that spring to mind immediately. One father who was attacked because he tried to take a photograph of his own children on a playground slide and another who was heavily questioned after his 6 year old daughter kissed him in a swimming pool. Both of these were in the UK but that is the kind of world we're dealing with. And there was a recent one where a headmaster (again UK) in a primary school banned any photography at the Christmas Concert (even of just a parents own children) for fear that photos (taken by parents) might end up in the hands of paedophiles.

How is that connected to what surname the child has? A father and child hanging out at a park or swimming pool hardly go around with name tags on and even if they did that does not mean people could not still read to much into someones actions and think they are acting inappropriately. Sharing a surname will not change that. What about step fathers, maternal uncles or grandfathers? They wouldn't share a surname but I know plenty of them who are involed in stepkids/nephews/nieces lives, taking them out to parks and swimming with no issue.

Squiggler

ztoical wrote: »

How is that connected to what surname the child has? A father and child hanging out at a park or swimming pool hardly go around with name tags on and even if they did that does not mean people could not still read to much into someones actions and think they are acting inappropriately. Sharing a surname will not change that. What about step fathers, maternal uncles or grandfathers? They wouldn't share a surname but I know plenty of them who are involed in stepkids/nephews/nieces lives, taking them out to parks and swimming with no issue.

squiggler wrote:

How much more difficult for any man unfortunate enough not to share his children's last name?

Did you miss that bit? Maybe I should have also pointed out that at least when questioned (separately from the child in the case of the swimming pool incident) the fact that they had the same last name as the child helped them to establish that they were, in fact, a parent of the child. Sorry, I thought that was self explanatory, even obvious.

I'm not saying that the situation in the UK is right. Legimiate concerns have become an excuse for extreme scaremongering and mass panic, but why make life more difficult than it needs to be?

ztoical

Squiggler wrote: »

Did you miss that bit? Maybe I should have also pointed out that at least when questioned (separately from the child in the case of the swimming pool incident) the fact that they had the same last name as the child helped them to establish that they were, in fact, a parent of the child. Sorry, I thought that was self explanatory, even obvious.

I'm not saying that the situation in the UK is right. Legimiate concerns have become an excuse for extreme scaremongering and mass panic, but why make life more difficult than it needs to be?

But them being the parent of the child makes no difference in the case of abuse accusations. If someone over reacted and thought they were acting inappropriately and reported it to the police the fact that they were the childs parent would be taken into considerdation by the police but they would still have to investigate. Abuse happens more within family groups then with strangers after all. Them having the same last name does not alone prove they are the parent of the child, they could be an uncle, a grandparent, even an older sibling etc etc or depending were you live and how common your surname you could just have the same surname.

In both examples the people who reported it could not have known the relationship [or maybe they did and still thought it inappropriate] and having the same surname proves nothing to the police.

Dades

ztoical wrote: »

Lads it's a name and a surname at that. 'Carry on the family name' unless it's a really odd name who cares? We aren't living in clans anymore.

We're not still living in clans? Where were you for Christmas dinner this year?

To answer your question of who cares about a name, maybe not you, but myself and plenty of other dads (and moms). Not everyone has to care for this to be worth talking about.

CK2010

my daughter has her dads name, we're not married so its not the same as my surname.

my family wanted her to have my surname annd told me all these stories about me not being allowed visit her in hospital/give consent as i dont have the same name, travelling being a problem etc. my daughter has been in and out of hospital and it has not once been brought up- actually, once when sending an impromptu letter to me they gave me her surname on the envelope (usually they use parent/guardian of child), thats the only time it ever come up, and it was a non issue really, i didnt even correct it.

oh and ive left the country with her too (without her dad and all) and nobody bat an eyelid.

shes still as much my child as she ever would/could be, she just has one more aspect of her daddy, which i think is nice- i carried her for 9months so everyone knows shes mine, its just a little something else to involve him that bit more. silly as it sounds! and now its just her name she will always be that name regardless of mine and her dads relationship, il still appreciate that its who she is and theres no need for that to change, i cant imagine her having my surname now.

ztoical

Dades wrote: »

We're not still living in clans? Where were you for Christmas dinner this year?

In my studio working, We're not all still catholic either

Fittle

Squiggler wrote: »

Did you miss that bit? Maybe I should have also pointed out that at least when questioned (separately from the child in the case of the swimming pool incident) the fact that they had the same last name as the child helped them to establish that they were, in fact, a parent of the child. Sorry, I thought that was self explanatory, even obvious.

I'm not saying that the situation in the UK is right. Legimiate concerns have become an excuse for extreme scaremongering and mass panic, but why make life more difficult than it needs to be?

Surely, a child who can say it's own surname, can indicate that the man involved is his/her father? Stories like these do little but scaremonger as far as I can tell. If a child is old enough to tell security staff, my name is 'johnny murphy' then it's also old enough to say 'yes, he's my daddy'.

I'm sure neither the child nor the parent in this instance had identity with them, so I'm sure the surname was hardly relevant.

metrovelvet

^ Thats funny. My three year old corrects officials when they read out his double barrell, like the cop for his passport, or immigration. He says [shouts more like] 'NOOOOO!!!! IT"S NOT ______________________________! Its JUST ____________________!"

I never thought so, but names matter apparantly.

Dades

ztoical wrote: »

In my studio working, We're not all still catholic either

You had Christmas dinner in your studio? I don't think family bonds are the sole preserve of catholics, neither.

amdublin

Dades wrote: »

You had Christmas dinner in your studio? I don't think family bonds are the sole preserve of catholics, neither.

I think the point being made was about celebrating Christmas.

3DataModem

babyname wrote: »

marriage is not on the agenda yet.

Once I've been with a girl 6 years, have a house a mortgage and children, I generally think it may be time to start considering settling down and getting married. Or maybe I'm just weird like that.

The_Conductor

Fittle wrote: »

Surely, a child who can say it's own surname, can indicate that the man involved is his/her father? Stories like these do little but scaremonger as far as I can tell. If a child is old enough to tell security staff, my name is 'johnny murphy' then it's also old enough to say 'yes, he's my daddy'.

I'm sure neither the child nor the parent in this instance had identity with them, so I'm sure the surname was hardly relevant.

Its not scaremongering if it can and has happened though.

With respect of passport control- a different matter- its not unheard of for officials to automatically remove the child, and ask questions later (its standard operating procedure in some US states, Israel and elsewhere- and a targeted procedure depending on where the child is travelling to or from, in EU states).

Political correctness automatically assumes the man travelling with the child does not automatically have the best intentions of the child at heart- certainly it may be true in a very very small number of cases, but you could say similarly of women, only women in general are not viewed with the same suspicion as men are.

S.

Moonbeam

When I travel with my daughter I bring her birth cert as well as her passport,just in case due to her sharing her dads surname and not mine.
Never been asked for it but it just gives me reassurance.

bourgie

I don't use my husband's name and both my children have my surname as their middle name. I can understand how men want their children to have their surname: well I wanted that too. Not all women change their name when married so there are lots and lots of us living, working and travelling with children who have different surnames. It's not a big deal.

Doublebarrelling our two very Irish names was too much of a mouthful as we live abroad so the middle name has worked well. I have travelled a good bit with the kids and only once was asked why I had a different surname. I can easily point to the middle name but I would always travel with a copy of my marriage cert just in case of any problems. As I said, not a big deal.

Hope the OP can find a compromise. Your girlfriend isn't being unreasonable in wanting her surname.

metrovelvet

smccarrick wrote: »

Its not scaremongering if it can and has happened though.

With respect of passport control- a different matter- its not unheard of for officials to automatically remove the child, and ask questions later (its standard operating procedure in some US states, Israel and elsewhere- and a targeted procedure depending on where the child is travelling to or from, in EU states).

Political correctness automatically assumes the man travelling with the child does not automatically have the best intentions of the child at heart- certainly it may be true in a very very small number of cases, but you could say similarly of women, only women in general are not viewed with the same suspicion as men are.

S.

What states do you know?

I travelled regularly with my father overseas as I did with my mother and I was never once pulled aside by immigration.

The_Conductor

metrovelvet wrote: »

What states do you know?

I travelled regularly with my father overseas as I did with my mother and I was never once pulled aside by immigration.

If you check out Mumsnet- you'll find several UK cases of issues where the mother has a different surname to the child (to the extent that several of the posters there recommend carrying both birth certs and/or adoption certs where the surname of the child is different). Example here

In Israel it appears to be standard procedure to separate and question young children separately, in particular if there are suspicions that the family may have travelled to any of the Palestinian territories (going by the types of questions asked). They are incredibly polite and good with the kids though (of course its the last thing you need in a highly militarised airport like Tel Aviv).

If you're entering or leaving Canada the Border Controls Agency states the following:

Divorced or separated parents must carry copies of the legal custody agreements for the children.

Also: If you are traveling with minors, you must carry proper identification for each child such as a birth certificate, passport, citizenship card, permanent resident card or Certificate of Indian Status. If you are not the parent or guardian of the children, you should also have written permission from the parent/guardian authorizing the trip. The letter should include addresses and telephone numbers of where the parents or guardian can be reached.

(Revised guidelines were issued, after a spate of parental abductions)

Also:

And finally, if your situation is not straightforward (for example, a child has a different last name than the parent he/she is traveling with), be extra careful about documents and paperwork. In a case of differing last names, you'd be well-advised to have a notarized letter of consent from the absent parent, and a copy of the child's birth certificate that specifically lists you as a birth parent. (In Canada, this is called the "Long form" birth certificate.) A mother who's remarried and taken a new name has another layer of responsibility added: she should be prepared to prove she is the person named on the child's birth certificate.

There is a whole section on the US State Department Website with similar info.

metrovelvet

I know the Canadians can be strict about this. But it has nothing to do with the name. I know one who was stopped by the AIRLINE at shannon airport, whose partner had just left after dropping them off and she had to run out to the parking lot to catch him.

I always carry relevent paper work with me but have never been stopped once but I never travelled to Canada, just the US and within Europe. I did get questioned at Dublin airport quite inappropriately I might add, when the immigration officer was confused by me and my son having two different nationality passports.

However, in the US this would have nothing to do with the surname because the surname has nothing to do with establishment of paternity. You can give your child any last name you want, it doesnt have to be yours or the fathers.

The same name does not guarantee anything as grandparents can have the same name but do not have the authority to travel without permission from the parent.

But it would be good to know WHO has the authority do carry these procedure out, airline staff? Immigration?

Dades

amdublin wrote: »

I think the point being made was about celebrating Christmas.

I also don't think only catholics celebrate Santa's birthday.

wolfpawnat

People shorten Double barrelled names. Most people don't realise I have a second surname. It is stupid. I hate it!

I am unmarried and my son's father made it clear he wanted him to have his name. It was never something up for discussion. It is part of the bonding process for men these days. It is just a name but it means a lot to fathers that are involved in their children's lives!!!!

I gave my son's father too much freedom, first name, one middle name and his surname. But they have a great relationship and I think giving dad some say in the child means everything!!!!!

Dilbert75

I can't stand double-barrelled names, for all of the reasons other posters mentioned above. My wife kept her name after we married and, as our older fella was using her name for a few years at that stage, he has it still. When his siblings came along (both before and after said marriage), they got my name on their birth certs but their surnames are my wife's. It never bothered me but I know my parents were inwardly horrified and went to the point of asking me to register them in school as double-barrelled (though their names can't be changed at this stage, as we're married).

For me the most important thing is that both parents are named on the birth cert. Beyond that, as long as there's nothing embarrassing, it doesn't matter what surname they take (with the exception maybe of "the frog":D) My kids are no more or no less mine or my wife's because of a string of letters on a piece of paper.

Yakult

Might aswell ask it here while this topic is going on last names.

If you had a baby with your ex and you then broke up before the baby was born should the child still have he's last name? Or just up the mother and father's agreement?

January

It's still the mother and father's agreement, although I could see why the mother would be reluctant.