The Visit of Queen Elizabeth

hsi

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why aren't you arguing that she should come over and apologize for everything?

What has she got to Apologise for? her dead ancestors actions?

Wolfe Tone

hsi wrote: »

What has she got to Apologise for? her dead ancestors actions?

You must have missed all the stuff her armed forces did, and her state which she is head of, while she has been queen.

phantom_lord

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why aren't you arguing that she should come over and apologize for everything?

Do you think your attitudes are conducive towards a united ireland?

P. Breathnach

phantom_lord wrote: »

Do you think your attitudes are conducive towards a united ireland?

Sometimes hating is more important than making progress.

KeithAFC

Smoke made a good point. No one seems to care when she comes to N.I. Thats odd..

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

Do you think your attitudes are conducive towards a united ireland?

Are you trying to say that being a republican is counter productive to a UI?


I will repeat the question. Why arent you arguing for her to apologize and try to make amends? She too good for that?

phantom_lord

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Are you trying to say that being a republican is counter productive to a UI

It's clear that my point all along has been that being a bitter backward one is. The same goes for anyone on any side.

You're part of a new generation, you weren't even alive for most of this stuff.the best thing you could do for your cause is move on.

seiphil

phantom_lord wrote: »

just wondering

No, but it shows that people are unhappy.

Because according to both states everything is happy families.

seiphil

KeithAFC wrote: »

Smoke made a good point. No one seems to care when she comes to N.I. Thats odd..

Its never announced that she goes to N.I.

She arrives then leaves then its announced.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

It's clear that my point all along has been that being a bitter backward one is. The same goes for anyone on any side.

You're part of a new generation, you weren't even alive for most of this stuff.the best thing you could do for your cause is move on.

So you are calling me bitter and backward? Tut tut, no need for such name calling friend.

Care to answer my question, I ask for the third time, why are you not on here arguing for her to apologize?

phantom_lord

Sigh. Disappointing that's what you took out of my post.

I answered your question earlier btw.

phantom_lord wrote: »

Sure she should apologise but so easily should others and I doubt we'd ever have gotten anywhere if all sides had insisted on such.

I only keep referring to backward bitterness because it's damaging. negotiations would never have achieved anything if people had maintained yours and keiths attitudes.you should really leave it behind with the last generation.

You won't get progress by talking about the men of 1916 or acts from forty years ago. I think you're forgetting about what your real objective is.

WakeUp

Seen as though Mary from the block is keen to have Lizzie round her gaff for some tea and struddle’s at the expense of us minions, and she is being talked about here, I was wondering if maybe somebody British might explain to me what their fascination is with worshipping, and generally being wooed by, a royal family of German decent?
The “Windsors” real name Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, senior line of the Saxon house of Wettin, a German Dynasty… what is the attraction I don’t get it you must just enjoy worshipping ze Germans or something????

I don’t think Lizzie should come over for financial reasons among others, nothing do to with the British people who are for the most part decent good human beings and are always welcome to visit here, but it’s the humble currently downtrodden minions who foot the bill whilst the overlords live it up being all grand & mighty. All state visits should be cancelled for the foreseeable future in my opinion. Why would any foreign leader/queen/hobbit want to come here and visit the bunch of losers we currently have in power. Their only focus should be sorting the sh!te out that happened on their watch not organising potentially divisive stuff like this, we have enough on our plate. Biffo has a rather large head as it is.

Happy new year to one and all if youre going out on the piss tonight leave the car at home. Arrive alive.:)

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

Sigh. Disappointing that's what you took out of my post.

I answered your question earlier btw.

You say he should apologize, yet you also want us to forget everything that happened, no doubt an apology would go a long way towards achieving that, and helping people to move on? People want closure, not it all swept under the carpet.

So what you actually want is for her to apologize and recognize what her troops etc have done, in order to help us move on? Fair enough, I want that too.

Judgement Day

WakeUp wrote: »

Seen as though Mary from the block is keen to have Lizzie round her gaff for some tea and struddle’s at the expense of us minions, and she is being talked about here, I was wondering if maybe somebody British might explain to me what their fascination is with worshipping, and generally being wooed by, a royal family of German decent?
The “Windsors” real name Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, senior line of the Saxon house of Wettin, a German Dynasty… what is the attraction I don’t get it you must just enjoy worshipping ze Germans or something????

I don’t think Lizzie should come over for financial reasons among others, nothing do to with the British people who are for the most part decent good human beings and are always welcome to visit here, but it’s the humble currently downtrodden minions who foot the bill whilst the overlords live it up being all grand & mighty. All state visits should be cancelled for the foreseeable future in my opinion. Why would any foreign leader/queen/hobbit want to come here and visit the bunch of losers we currently have in power. Their only focus should be sorting the sh!te out that happened on their watch not organising potentially divisive stuff like this, we have enough on our plate. Biffo has a rather large head as it is.

Happy new year to one and all if youre going out on the piss tonight leave the car at home. Arrive alive.:)

Apart from the last sentence of your post, with which I agree, I really despair of this attitude. I'm British and, yes, I am happy with Queen Elizabeth II as my head of state and fail to understand why you seek to belittle her. I'm sure most British people aren't concerned with why Irish people worship a former RTE hack who is their head of state. I'm also sure that they don't complain about the cost of President McAleese's many visits to the UK or expect her to apologise for the actions of the IRA. However, in common with several other posters on this thread I'm very much against the visit as I think the Queen's safety cannot be guaranteed; violent protests by the lunatic fringe will further damage Ireland's international image and the sight of our political 'elite' ingratiating themselves with the monarch would be stomach churning.

caseyann

sneakyST wrote: »

As an Irishman living in England I hope she doesn't go. It has been quite embarrassing to see Ireland to go down the tubes in the last few months with that incompetent buffoon at the helm, but then to have the possibility of monkeys in Celtic jerseys rioting in Dublin plastered on Sky news would complete Ireland's transition back to the 80's.
The hypocrisy in this thread is unbelievable.

Who is been hypocritical,the for side or against side?

And to the riots,that happened in England Greece etc... so whats that got to do with anything?

What is been a hypocrite is in anyway shape or form inviting a dithering old fart to Ireland,paying 8 million for her to be here(when she means nothing to Irish people)And cutting minimum wage and social welfare and bank hikes for transactions but yet still able to pay their fat wages and expenses and invite a nobody to visit and stay for free. 8 million how many families and homeless would that save? She doesn't pay taxes and lives off the backs of her people in wealth and has done for decades.She is a useless ornament.Her wealth has been gained off the backs of dead Irish etc.. her monarchy coming here is an insult to this country and peoples dead who her blood line enslaved for generations.
So go talk to someone else for been a hypocrite.

phantom_lord

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You say he should apologize, yet you also want us to forget everything that happened, no doubt an apology would go a long way towards achieving that, and helping people to move on? People want closure, not it all swept under the carpet.

So what you actually want is for her to apologize and recognize what her troops etc have done, in order to help us move on? Fair enough, I want that too.

phantom_lord wrote: »

I really don't understand how you seem to so misunderstand and misrepresent all my points.

gets a little tiring.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

gets a little tiring.

I say what I see.

Het-Field

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Are you trying to say that being a republican is counter productive to a UI?


I will repeat the question. Why arent you arguing for her to apologize and try to make amends? She too good for that?

You are not a Republican. That word has been bastardised. You are a nationalist. I suggest you dont use self-descriptive terms which in no way reflect their true meaning.

deise go deo

Het-Field wrote: »

You are not a Republican. That word has been bastardised. You are a nationalist. I suggest you dont use self-descriptive terms which in no way reflect their true meaning.

Nice of you to make pronouncements on someone you dont know like that, From what I know, MUSSOLINI dose not favor monarchy as a form of government, thats republican in my dictionary.

Edit: Happy Now?

Wolfe Tone

deise go deo wrote: »

Nice of you to make pronouncements on someone you dont know like that, From what I know, mussolini dose not favor monarchy as a form of government, thats republican in my dictionary.

Its posts like that which make me think my username was an all together bad choice!

KeithAFC

Het-Field wrote: »

You are not a Republican. That word has been bastardised. You are a nationalist. I suggest you dont use self-descriptive terms which in no way reflect their true meaning.

Republican nationalist?

Iwasfrozen

caseyann wrote: »

Who is been hypocritical,the for side or against side?

And to the riots,that happened in England Greece etc... so whats that got to do with anything?

What is been a hypocrite is in anyway shape or form inviting a dithering old fart to Ireland,paying 8 million for her to be here(when she means nothing to Irish people)And cutting minimum wage and social welfare and bank hikes for transactions but yet still able to pay their fat wages and expenses and invite a nobody to visit and stay for free. 8 million how many families and homeless would that save? She doesn't pay taxes and lives off the backs of her people in wealth and has done for decades.She is a useless ornament.Her wealth has been gained off the backs of dead Irish etc.. her monarchy coming here is an insult to this country and peoples dead who her blood line enslaved for generations.
So go talk to someone else for been a hypocrite.

Are you this hostile to all other cultures or just the English?

geespot

phantom_lord wrote: »

How about we just forgive them? Show how magnanimous we are and how we've moved on? Surely that type of state would be more attractive to unionists than one full of people bitter about the past? Would you be willingly to do that?

thats like forgiving the person who shot your parents and threw you out of your house while they were still living in it and you were living under a box in the street

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

thats like forgiving the person who shot your parents and threw you out of your house while they were still living in it and you were living under a box in the street

No it isn't, they aren't even nearly the same thing.

annoyingbeast

will cost us money we can use on better things, most people don't want her here, the rest don't care, i wouldn't welcome her' not only for northern Ireland but because of Afghanistan, and i don't agree with the whole concept of monarchy anyway and before some anti nationalist or 'west Brit' calls me a bigot i'm English and so are my parents, no one in england ****ing likes her anyway shes a degenerate retard.

lugha

geespot wrote: »

thats like forgiving the person who shot your parents and threw you out of your house while they were still living in it and you were living under a box in the street

Right, so the plan is to continue with the whinging! For how much longer though? 800 more years? 8000?:rolleyes:

geespot

that true the brits didnt just kill a family and take there house they tried to wipe out a whole nation and or still refusing to give it back. hardly surprising they are hated the world over. not to worry the queen of england will soon be a muslim lets see peter robinson creaming his pants over pictures of that

annoyingbeast

phantom_lord wrote: »

How about we just forgive them? Show how magnanimous we are and how we've moved on? Surely that type of state would be more attractive to unionists than one full of people bitter about the past? Would you be willingly to do that?

why would i want a united ireland? so i have to compromise my culture, my government etc. so some degenerate retards who will never be happy can join my country? i would agree with all the nationalist majority areas to join my country, and leave the unionists east of the bann, the unionists would never stop complaining, they will dilute our culture, and the hardliners will start bombing dublin, a united ireland should only be acheived when the unionists leave,

and im quite serious, every unionist to leave ireland and go back to scotland, then i will accept a united ireland. before that happens im happy with how things are now, but im sorry for the irish people who are trapped in a british occupation in there own country.

Judgement Day

annoyingbeast wrote: »

will cost us money we can use on better things, most people don't want her here, the rest don't care, i wouldn't welcome her' not only for northern Ireland but because of Afghanistan, and i don't agree with the whole concept of monarchy anyway and before some anti nationalist or 'west Brit' calls me a bigot i'm English and so are my parents, no one in england ****ing likes her anyway shes a degenerate retard.

I'm sure you're representative of a typical English person. I see from one of your previous posts that you went over there for a month for the craic - is that how you qualify yourself as English. :rolleyes:

Judgement Day

annoyingbeast wrote: »

why would i want a united ireland? so i have to compromise my culture, my government etc. so some degenerate retards who will never be happy can join my country? i would agree with all the nationalist majority areas to join my country, and leave the unionists east of the bann, the unionists would never stop complaining, they will dilute our culture, and the hardliners will start bombing dublin, a united ireland should only be acheived when the unionists leave,

and im quite serious, every unionist to leave ireland and go back to scotland, then i will accept a united ireland. before that happens im happy with how things are now, but im sorry for the irish people who are trapped in a british occupation in there own country.

I thought you said that you were English?

geespot

surely a typical english person is coloured and can barely speak english . ah well you reap what you sow

Judgement Day

geespot wrote: »

surely a typical english person is coloured and can barely speak english . ah well you reap what you sow

After Hours this way: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=7 :rolleyes:

KeithAFC

annoyingbeast wrote: »

why would i want a united ireland? so i have to compromise my culture, my government etc. so some degenerate retards who will never be happy can join my country? i would agree with all the nationalist majority areas to join my country, and leave the unionists east of the bann, the unionists would never stop complaining, they will dilute our culture, and the hardliners will start bombing dublin, a united ireland should only be acheived when the unionists leave,

and im quite serious, every unionist to leave ireland and go back to scotland, then i will accept a united ireland. before that happens im happy with how things are now, but im sorry for the irish people who are trapped in a british occupation in there own country.

I ain't going to Scotland. I was born in Ulster.

geespot

KeithAFC wrote: »

I ain't going to Scotland. I was born in Ulster.

you where born in ireland sure your irish then nothing to worry about so

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

you where born in ireland sure your irish then nothing to worry about so

geespot wrote:

and im quite serious, every unionist to leave ireland and go back to scotland

He's a unionist.

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

He's a unionist.

he wants a union of the 32 counties good man keith

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

he wants a union of the 32 counties good man keith

ಠ_ಠ

windsurfer99ie

caseyann wrote: »

Who is been hypocritical,the for side or against side?

And to the riots,that happened in England Greece etc... so whats that got to do with anything?

What is been a hypocrite is in anyway shape or form inviting a dithering old fart to Ireland,paying 8 million for her to be here(when she means nothing to Irish people)And cutting minimum wage and social welfare and bank hikes for transactions but yet still able to pay their fat wages and expenses and invite a nobody to visit and stay for free. 8 million how many families and homeless would that save? She doesn't pay taxes and lives off the backs of her people in wealth and has done for decades.She is a useless ornament.Her wealth has been gained off the backs of dead Irish etc.. her monarchy coming here is an insult to this country and peoples dead who her blood line enslaved for generations.
So go talk to someone else for been a hypocrite.

Talking of hypocrisy, isn't there something hypocritical about people who oppose the visit on the grounds that (amongst other things) the Queen allegedly meddles in the affairs of other States and yet those same people proceed to attempt to do exactly the same? If you are going to attempt to meddle in British politics at least get your facts straight - the Queen does pay taxes and has done for many years.

I, and many English people like me, recognise the very special contribution that the Queen makes to public life in Britain. She has a non-partisan and therefore unique perspective on British politics. Many countries who do not have a royal family try to ape one by inventing a "non executive" president - sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't.

The Queen has a very positive effect on the UK tourist industry, and so she could here. The few million it will cost to fund the visit is around one thousandth of the money that Britain is lending to us (or approximately one bankers pension fund). I am not certain about the financing of this, perhaps someone else knows, but some of the costs (if only indirect ones such as security etc) will be born by the British taxpayer.

Many British people (English in particular) consider Ireland to be a place that they are not welcome. My English friends divide into three types - those who have been here, those who visit regularly and those who simply do not visit. As I understand it, approximately 50% of Ireland's visitors come from Britain and a visit by the Queen would almost certainly boost this trade.

More importantly to me however, as a member of the largest ethnic minority in Ireland, a visit by my Queen sends out a very clear message to my Irish children, my English family and all my friends that we can all look forward to more mature relations between our two countries in the future.

geespot

i would say the english or as welcome in ireland as the irish or in england

Judgement Day

geespot wrote: »

i would say the english or as welcome in ireland as the irish or in england

Yeah, you're probably right there as I'm sure that there are proportionately as many xenophobic knuckle draggers in England as there are in Ireland.

geespot

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yeah, you're probably right there as I'm sure that there are proportionately as many xenophobic knuckle draggers in England as there are in Ireland.

i think if you follow there football surporter you would see that they have a disproportionate amount . hence the reaction irish people recieve throughout the world until they announce they or irish and receive the welcome that people expect when they come here

annoyingbeast

born in england, brought over here at 12, consider this my country now i respect the culture, i can see what the british government did was near evil, politically a republican (against monarchy) is that so hard for you to undertand? yes thats right, im english AND a republican. yet i do not support a united ireland with unionists.

Iwasfrozen

annoyingbeast wrote: »

born in england, brought over here at 12, consider this my country now i respect the culture, i can see what the british government did was near evil, politically a republican (against monarchy) is that so hard for you to undertand? yes thats right, im english AND a republican. yet i do not support a united ireland with unionists.

You know they have a word for that, it's called traitor. Just saying.

Fitzerb

Judgement Day wrote: »

Apart from the last sentence of your post, with which I agree, I really despair of this attitude. I'm British and, yes, I am happy with Queen Elizabeth II as my head of state and fail to understand why you seek to belittle her. I'm sure most British people aren't concerned with why Irish people worship a former RTE hack who is their head of state. I'm also sure that they don't complain about the cost of President McAleese's many visits to the UK or expect her to apologise for the actions of the IRA. However, in common with several other posters on this thread I'm very much against the visit as I think the Queen's safety cannot be guaranteed; violent protests by the lunatic fringe will further damage Ireland's international image and the sight of our political 'elite' ingratiating themselves with the monarch would be stomach churning.

The best analysis of your knowledge of the Irish history is best put as this:
A British civil servant while on tour with an Irish civil servant were driving in West Cork. When they arrived at Beal Na Blath the Irish Civil servant said “This is where Michael Collins was killed” to which the British civil servant answered “ Well it is a really dangerous bend”
Your understanding of Irish history is typical of the English,

geespot

Fitzerb wrote: »

The best analysis of your knowledge of the Irish history is best put as this:
A British civil servant while on tour with an Irish civil servant were driving in West Cork. When they arrived at Beal Na Blath the Irish Civil servant said “This is where Michael Collins was killed” to which the British civil servant answered “ Well it is a really dangerous bend”
Your understanding of Irish history is typical of the English,

i didnt know michael collin died in a car accident

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You know they have a word for that, it's called traitor. Just saying.

we had some great soliders killed by the british as traitors they died with pride and honour fighting for justice

Iwasfrozen

Fitzerb wrote: »

The best analysis of your knowledge of the Irish history is best put as this:
A British civil servant while on tour with an Irish civil servant were driving in West Cork. When they arrived at Beal Na Blath the Irish Civil servant said “This is where Michael Collins was killed” to which the British civil servant answered “ Well it is a really dangerous bend”
Your understanding of Irish history is typical of the English,

Dude, that's just some generic joke.

Judgement Day

Fitzerb wrote: »

The best analysis of your knowledge of the Irish history is best put as this:
A British civil servant while on tour with an Irish civil servant were driving in West Cork. When they arrived at Beal Na Blath the Irish Civil servant said “This is where Michael Collins was killed” to which the British civil servant answered “ Well it is a really dangerous bend”
Your understanding of Irish history is typical of the English,

Nice anecdote but I said I was British not English, and I have lived in Ireland most of my 51 years. My family have been in Ireland since the mid 17th century and were involved on both sides in 1798. I have a keen interest in our common historical heritage but don't look at things through bigoted or rose-tinted glasses and I think that I have quite a good understanding of Irish history. By the way I should think in relation to your anecdote that many Irish children are as likely to be ignorant of Beal Na Blath as the English civil servant and are more likely to be interested in the X Factor/East Enders/Posh & Becks and the Premiership.

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

we had some great soliders killed by the british as traitors they died with pride and honour fighting for justice

We've also had people branded traitors by republicans who died with pride and honour while fighting for our freedom against the Nazi menace during WWII. What's your point?

Judgement Day

geespot wrote: »

i didnt know michael collin died in a car accident

You will note from the lack of a :rolleyes: that geespot now actually believes that Collins died in a car crash.