The Visit of Queen Elizabeth

caseyann

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

Talking of hypocrisy, isn't there something hypocritical about people who oppose the visit on the grounds that (amongst other things) the Queen allegedly meddles in the affairs of other States and yet those same people proceed to attempt to do exactly the same? If you are going to attempt to meddle in British politics at least get your facts straight - the Queen does pay taxes and has done for many years.

I, and many English people like me, recognise the very special contribution that the Queen makes to public life in Britain. She has a non-partisan and therefore unique perspective on British politics. Many countries who do not have a royal family try to ape one by inventing a "non executive" president - sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't.

The Queen has a very positive effect on the UK tourist industry, and so she could here. The few million it will cost to fund the visit is around one thousandth of the money that Britain is lending to us (or approximately one bankers pension fund). I am not certain about the financing of this, perhaps someone else knows, but some of the costs (if only indirect ones such as security etc) will be born by the British taxpayer.

Many British people (English in particular) consider Ireland to be a place that they are not welcome. My English friends divide into three types - those who have been here, those who visit regularly and those who simply do not visit. As I understand it, approximately 50% of Ireland's visitors come from Britain and a visit by the Queen would almost certainly boost this trade.

More importantly to me however, as a member of the largest ethnic minority in Ireland, a visit by my Queen sends out a very clear message to my Irish children, my English family and all my friends that we can all look forward to more mature relations between our two countries in the future.

Head in clouds still is it? Seriously cant have a conversation with people like yourself.
In order to feel welcome you need the queen to be invited and pay out 8 million for her to be here when she is a nobody to us? Are you kidding me.
And blah blah about the loan as that what it is and getting it back on interest.
We owe British nothing.
You live here day to day life between Irish and English there is no problems.If you want to see your queen go live there.If you are in Ireland and you are a queen worshiper you are not Irish and never will be Irish in my eyes or anyones eyes.
And shouldnt try force your queen loving crap on us as your country tried before remember.No right to expect us to have her here.
I have a friends whos mother is like you but she is from the north and she is brain washed into that queen loving rubbish.

She pay,s taxes and who pays her taxes :rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

caseyann wrote: »

Head in clouds still is it? Seriously cant have a conversation with people like yourself.
In order to feel welcome you need the queen to be invited and pay out 8 million for her to be here when she is a nobody to us? Are you kidding me.
And blah blah about the loan as that what it is and getting it back on interest.
We owe British nothing.
You live here day to day life between Irish and English there is no problems.If you want to see your queen go live there.If you are in Ireland and you are a queen worshiper you are not Irish and never will be Irish in my eyes or anyones eyes.
And shouldnt try force your queen loving crap on us as your country tried before remember.No right to expect us to have her here.
I have a friends whos mother is like you but she is from the north and she is brain washed into that queen loving rubbish.

She pay,s taxes and who pays her taxes :rolleyes:

All I can understand from your posts is "rah rah rah, I hate the Queen! rah!"

Could you please explain in simple terms why you are opposed to the Queen's visit without all the irrational bigotry? And please don't speak for all Irish people I'm pretty sure you haven't asked 4.5 million people their opinion.

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We've also had people branded traitors by republicans who died with pride and honour while fighting for our freedom against the Nazi menace during WWII. What's your point?

it was so simple i thought even you would understand. anybody branded a traitor by a brit should wear it as a badge of honour. nice of the brits to fight the nazi menace while oppressing nations all over the world

KeithAFC

geespot wrote: »

it was so simple i thought even you would understand. anybody branded a traitor by a brit should wear it as a badge of honour. nice of the brits to fight the nazi menace while oppressing nations all over the world

Lucky you. Your country most likely would not even exist if they didn't fight for freedom.

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

it was so simple i thought even you would understand. anybody branded a traitor by a brit should wear it as a badge of honour. nice of the brits to fight the nazi menace while oppressing nations all over the world

The French and Spainish have just as much blood on their hands as the Brits but I don't remember noble republicans making this much noise last time Sarkozy or Juan Carlos visited. Could it be republicans are bigots with an irrational hatred of the Brits?!

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All I can understand from your posts is "rah rah rah, I hate the Queen! rah!"

Could you please explain in simple terms why you are opposed to the Queen's visit without all the irrational bigotry? And please don't speak for all Irish people I'm pretty sure you haven't asked 4.5 million people their opinion.

just to get it right there is over 6 million people in ireland

Iwasfrozen

KeithAFC wrote: »

Lucky you. Your country most likely would not even exist if they didn't fight for freedom.

Nope, the SS would be marching down Sackville Straße and there would be no question of the Fuhrer offering an apology for the massacre of 1943.

geespot

KeithAFC wrote: »

Lucky you. Your country most likely would not even exist if they didn't fight for freedom.

that is the most stupid thing i have ever heard. i think given the fact that both ireland and england,scotland and wales or members of the e.u which is run by the germans your point is even more stupid. anyway i thought the brits were rescued by the americans

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope, the SS would be marching down Sackville Straße and there would be no question of the Fuhrer offering an apology for the massacre of 1943.

having spent time in germany and england i know which country i would rather have running the show here

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

just to get it right there is over 6 million people in ireland

Caseyann was voicing her disapproval of taxpayers having to foot the bill. There are 4.5 million taxpayers in this country.

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The French and Spainish have just as much blood on their hands as the Brits but I don't remember noble republicans making this much noise last time Sarkozy or Juan Carlos visited. Could it be republicans are bigots with an irrational hatred of the Brits?!

i thought sarkozy was elected also both the spanish and french tried to help ireland to free themselves of their british oppressors. the fact is we where oppressed by the british and still are and that is why the queen isnt welcome here.

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

having spent time in germany and england i know which country i would rather have running the show here

Modern Germany definitely but not Nazi Germany. I value my freedom.

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Caseyann was voicing her disapproval of taxpayers having to foot the bill. There are 4.5 million taxpayers in this country.

very doubtful if we had the country would most definetly be in the black in fact england would probably be looking for a loan from us

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

i thought sarkozy was elected also both the spanish and french tried to help ireland to free themselves of their british oppressors. the fact is we where oppressed by the british and still are and that is why the queen isnt welcome here.

This is what you said:

geespot wrote:

it was so simple i thought even you would understand. anybody branded a traitor by a brit should wear it as a badge of honour. nice of the brits to fight the nazi menace while oppressing nations all over the world

I responded by saying France and Spain have as much blood on their hands as Britain. Also you are deluded if you think the French and Spainish try'd to help us because they are nice neightbours. They had their own vested interests in weakening Protestant Britain.

And who is to say the Queen isn't welcome here? You? With what mandate do you now speak for the Irish people? I'm wiling to bet you any amount of money this visit will go ahead without a hitch.

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

very doubtful if we had the country would most definetly be in the black in fact england would probably be looking for a loan from us

What? I'm not being funny or anything I actually didn't understand your post.

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This is what you said:

I responded by saying France and Spain have as much blood on their hands as Britain. Also you are deluded if you think the French and Spainish try'd to help us because they are nice neightbours. They had their own vested interests in weakening Protestant Britain.

And who is to say the Queen isn't welcome here? You? With what mandate do you now speak for the Irish people? I'm wiling to bet you any amount of money this visit will go ahead without a hitch.

i dont think you understand i couldnt give a flying fcuk what anybody done or why they done it if they supplied weapons, soliders, money know how whatever so long has they helped that is the bottom line

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What? I'm not being funny or anything I actually didn't understand your post.

we dont have 4.5 million taxpayers seen as some of them would be children some dont work and arseholes like bono dont pay tax

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

i dont think you understand i couldnt give a flying fcuk what anybody done or why they done it if they supplied weapons, soliders, money know how whatever so long has they helped that is the bottom line

You might not, but I do.

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Modern Germany definitely but not Nazi Germany. I value my freedom.

but not that of 800000 nationalists in northern ireland

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You might not, but I do.

well it is a free country at least 26 counties of it

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

we dont have 4.5 million taxpayers seen as some of them would be children some dont work and arseholes like bono dont pay tax

They all pay tax, maybe not income tax but definitly DIRT and VAT.

Fitzerb

Judgement Day wrote: »

Apart from the last sentence of your post, with which I agree, I really despair of this attitude. I'm British and, yes, I am happy with Queen Elizabeth II as my head of state and fail to understand why you seek to belittle her. I'm sure most British people aren't concerned with why Irish people worship a former RTE hack who is their head of state. I'm also sure that they don't complain about the cost of President McAleese's many visits to the UK or expect her to apologise for the actions of the IRA. However, in common with several other posters on this thread I'm very much against the visit as I think the Queen's safety cannot be guaranteed; violent protests by the lunatic fringe will further damage Ireland's international image and the sight of our political 'elite' ingratiating themselves with the monarch would be stomach churning.

I question you knowledge of Ireland. If you are living here for 50 years surely you know that the IRA are not the legitimate armed forces of this State. Therefore no President could apologise on their behalf. However the Queen who is the head of the British armed forces and they have committed murder in this Country and the Irish people are entitled to reject this proposed visit.
Go check on Sir Michael Jackson whom your Queen knighted despite knowing he took part in the murdering of innocent people in Derry on Sunday 31st January 1972. Check out the photographic evidence of his role on that day.
The “hack” that you refer to is the president of our Country, a country where you have lived for 50 years, at least have the dignity to show our country some respect.
Our President has also worked extremely hard to bring the two different cultures of our Island together. Just to remind you..
12th July at the Aras “ A garden party to celebrate the battle of the Boyne”
27th Nov 2008. Her visit to the Orange Hall in Cavan
June 5th 2008 Mary McAleese visit to Warrington in memory of Tim Parry and Johnathan Ball.

There are many but there is no point in listing them all as your narrow view would not see the full picture
I am not shocked that someone of British origin would see our president as a “hack” . That is typical of the arrogance that Britain has shown to Ireland, however I do hope you enjoyed your 50 years living here

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

but not that of 800000 nationalists in northern ireland

My position on Northern Ireland is clear. I will welcome the North into a United Ireland when the majority votes for it in a fair referendum. Not one day sooner.

Fitzerb

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Dude, that's just some generic joke.

Dude, you cant be serious,

Iwasfrozen

Fitzerb wrote: »

Dude, you cant be serious,

Dude, I wasn't.

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

My position on Northern Ireland is clear. I will welcome the North into a United Ireland when the majority votes for it in a fair referendum. Not one day sooner.

but sure the british when they were creating this bullsh1t state they done so in a way to give the unionists a majority and when that majority started to decline the loyalist majority backed by there own private army started to kill and burn the irish catholics out of there homes in an act of genocide to mantain their majority

caseyann

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All I can understand from your posts is "rah rah rah, I hate the Queen! rah!"

Could you please explain in simple terms why you are opposed to the Queen's visit without all the irrational bigotry? And please don't speak for all Irish people I'm pretty sure you haven't asked 4.5 million people their opinion.

You should know by now i never answer you
You calling me a bigot and i dont need to reexplain my standing on it.And i can tell you here and now if it went to a poll the majority would be against her coming here and paying 8 million for her stay here.
As i already said she wants a holiday and be fed and housed pay for it herself.

Iwasfrozen

geespot wrote: »

but sure the british when they were creating this bullsh1t state they done so in a way to give the unionists a majority and when that majority started to decline the loyalist majority backed by there own private army started to kill and burn the irish catholics out of there homes in an act of genocide to mantain their majority

lol, if that was their aim they did a piss poor job of it.

caseyann

geespot wrote: »

but sure the british when they were creating this bullsh1t state they done so in a way to give the unionists a majority and when that majority started to decline the loyalist majority backed by there own private army started to kill and burn the irish catholics out of there homes in an act of genocide to mantain their majority

And the Irish protestants aswell dont forget.

geespot

caseyann wrote: »

And the Irish protestants aswell dont forget.

well the protestants who had the most to gain by staying at the top made sure there was few of them

geespot

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

lol, if that was their aim they did a piss poor job of it.

i know its awful some people just wont lie down

KeithAFC

geespot wrote: »

but sure the british when they were creating this bullsh1t state they done so in a way to give the unionists a majority and when that majority started to decline the loyalist majority backed by there own private army started to kill and burn the irish catholics out of there homes in an act of genocide to mantain their majority

Sinn Fein education.. :eek:

geespot

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sinn Fein education.. :eek:

which bit is not true. lets call a spade a spade there would be no sinn fein if it wasnt for the unionists abusing their majority in the six counties

KeithAFC

geespot wrote: »

which bit is not true. lets call a spade a spade there would be no sinn fein if it wasnt for the unionists abusing their majority in the six counties

All of it. Sinn Fein is a republican party, not just a party based on equality.

geespot

KeithAFC wrote: »

All of it. Sinn Fein is a republican party, not just a party based on equality.

i actually feel sorry for unionists when are they going to realise that the world doesnt revolve around them and there fantasy world. how are they going to cope as part of a minority in a country where they will only be treated as an equal. can i ask you keith to spread the word the end is nigh its not all bad talk to some of your brethern in cavan, donegal, wicklow cork wherever we sure as hell will treat you better than you have treated us its just a matter of losing your superiority complex

phantom_lord

You guys really just lessen any support I could possibly ever have for you with every post you write. Would you ever just listen to what you're spouting and grow up.

geespot

nobody is making you read it

KeithAFC

geespot wrote: »

i actually feel sorry for unionists when are they going to realise that the world doesnt revolve around them and there fantasy world. how are they going to cope as part of a minority in a country where they will only be treated as an equal. can i ask you keith to spread the word the end is nigh its not all bad talk to some of your brethern in cavan, donegal, wicklow cork wherever we sure as hell will treat you better than you have treated us its just a matter of losing your superiority complex

What are you on about?

patar

Mehhh Mrs. Windsor should be allowed come and go as she pleases... As long as there are no parades... or scraping the floor bows... or sycophantic speeches from fine gael taosigh Aaaaaaaaaaand it would be a nice gesture if she took the harp from her standard.

Judgement Day

patar wrote: »

Mehhh Mrs. Windsor should be allowed come and go as she pleases... As long as there are no parades... or scraping the floor bows... or sycophantic speeches from fine gael taosigh Aaaaaaaaaaand it would be a nice gesture if she took the harp from her standard.

Jeez not another "Mrs.Windsor" post - it is just so funny at this stage. :rolleyes:

patar

Judgement Day wrote: »

Jeez not another "Mrs.Windsor" post - it is just so funny at this stage. :rolleyes:

Wasn't mean to be funny... Should we really refer to her as 'The Queen'. We don't call Sarkozy 'The President'... Why should she be the queen?

feicim

Het-Field wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/visit-by-queen-is-on-the-cards-for-next-year-2476516.html

"A visit by Queen Elizabeth to the Republic is on the cards for next year before the end of President Mary Acleese's term in office.

A good chunk of her own "subjects" don't even want her, so why in gods name should we?

My feelings in this matter can be best summed up by the last line of the Dublin street ballad "Monto"

Fratton Fred

feicim wrote: »

A good chunk of her own "subjects" don't even want her, so why in gods name should we?

My feelings in this matter can be best summed up by the last line of the Dublin street ballad "Monto"

Subjects?

If the majority of British people wanted rid of the monarchy then there would be a republican party, but there isn't.

Most British people agree that monarchy is probably obsolete, but don't see any major reason to change the current set up. After all, Britain is ruled by the democratically elected members if the Westminster parliament and the monarchy are forced to comply with its instructions like everyone else.

Judgement Day

feicim wrote: »

A good chunk of her own "subjects" don't even want her, so why in gods name should we?

My feelings in this matter can be best summed up by the last line of the Dublin street ballad "Monto"

What sort of nonsensical reaction is this? The Queen is the Head of State in the UK and until such time as she is not she should be afforded the same treatment as other visiting Heads of State. So many people here have too much baggage and they really need to get with the programme. We're approaching 2016 not 1916.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

You guys really just lessen any support I could possibly ever have for you with every post you write. Would you ever just listen to what you're spouting and grow up.

People like you would never support it anyway, you of course being the fan of sweeping everything under the carpet. Maybe we should "forget and move on" from the scandals in the church, sure they were years and years ago, who gives a feck about them?

I still think it is strange that you are not agitating for the queen to apologise.

junder

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

People like you would never support it anyway, you of course being the fan of sweeping everything under the carpet. Maybe we should "forget and move on" from the scandals in the church, sure they were years and years ago, who gives a feck about them?

I still think it is strange that you are not agitating for the queen to apologise.

I still think it's strange that your not advocating the complete cessation of relations with the uk since you have such a problem with us, but I guess it's just our head of state you have a problem with and not our money

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I still think it is strange that you are not agitating for the queen to apologise.

What specifically do you want an apology for M? Would you care to give us a rough draft?

Coillte_Bhoy

junder wrote: »

I still think it's strange that your not advocating the complete cessation of relations with the uk since you have such a problem with us, but I guess it's just our head of state you have a problem with and not our money

What on earth is that supposed to mean? If it's a refrence to the loan offered to us, you clearly don't know what you're on about.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

What specifically do you want an apology for M? Would you care to give us a rough draft?

The stuff her army did when she has been head of them would be a good start.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The stuff her army did when she has been head of them would be a good start.

A "good start" indeed. You rather let the cat out of the bag there. In other words, no matter what apology she makes it won't do, you will still demand she apologise for something else. Much like Cameron's apology for Bloody Sunday appears not to be sufficient for some now. I suspect your desire for an apology is really a desire to humiliate the queen.

Irish affairs aside, I have always found this appetite some people have for demanding an apology (which is of course a paradox,an apology is only that if it is freely given) to be most unedifying. Do you not think it's bit, well wimpish? :pac: