Do Dogs Need Proper Training?

Shazanne

adser53 wrote: »

I lol'd

And Shaz I'm afraid I've nothing to add on the anxiety but perhaps getting a good behaviourist out is the best thing to help with both dogs?Does your oldest bark and get worked up like that all the time or just at the vets?

And sorry, OT but, that wasn't you I passed yesterday near the estate entrance was it? My girlfriend and I had our 2 Akitas and we passed a lady with a beagle? (your youngest is a beagle, right?)

My oldest, Millie, really only gets worked up when she is out, ie; at the vet's, visiting family/friends, walking if she meets another dog (particularly a female!).
My dogs were out walking yesterday but I wasn't. By that I don't mean they were out for a walk on their own!! My hubby and son had them out and about (they came back in a right state and we have no water!!!) My eldest is a terrier cross and my youngest is a beagle/terrier cross.
If you do think you meet me out with them just yell Shazanne, Millie or Max and I'll know it's you!!:D

meoklmrk91

Above is a picture of a Slip Lead, I can assure everyone that they are not in slightest bit cruel. I have used and seen them used on many occasions and have never once seen a dog distressed. These are very handy because they are lightweight and easy to slip over the dogs head, hence the name. All collars and leads have the capacity to be cruel and be a danger to a dog, it depends on the person handling the dog, not the equipment they are using.

Qualitymark

Shazanne wrote: »

My oldest, Millie, really only gets worked up when she is out, ie; at the vet's, visiting family/friends, walking if she meets another dog (particularly a female!).

What does she do?

sionnaic

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Above is a picture of a Slip Lead, I can assure everyone that they are not in slightest bit cruel. I have used and seen them used on many occasions and have never once seen a dog distressed. These are very handy because they are lightweight and easy to slip over the dogs head, hence the name. All collars and leads have the capacity to be cruel and be a danger to a dog, it depends on the person handling the dog, not the equipment they are using.

The only purpose of a piece of equipment like that is to tighten when pulled and therefore choke whatever is wearing it. Normal collars and leads do not do this. And I'm sorry but how can anyone say that choking an animal is not cruel?

Qualitymark

This is the Gentle Walker; the harness slides through the two small rings on the back of the collar, then around behind the front legs and up to attach to the big rings on the front.

http://k9shop.nl/tuigen-voor-de-hond/tuigen-speciaal/Nylon-Gentle-Walker.html

trio

OP, when I was thinking of getting a dog I got Victoria Stilwell's book. She's the Its Me Or The Dog woman. We got it on Amazon.

It's brilliant - really easy to follow and it's all based on rewarding the behaviour you like, and ignoring or correcting the behaviour you don't. I found it great common sense and it really helped me understand what my dog was thinking. There's no slip leads or special doggy death grips or any of that stuff (I got Caesar Milan's book too, but didn't take to it at all).

For example, with the seperation anxiety. From what I remember, she recommends just coming and going from the room with no fuss. So you don't look at the dog when you're leaving, and then you come back in and you don't look at the dog.

He's staring at you for cues and he can't distinuish you saying to him "It's going to be fine, calm down! I'll be back in a while!" with "I'm leaving you forever!!" Ignoring him gives him no cues other than your relaxed body language.

And you start off at coming back in within 20 or 30 seconds so he doesn't have time to get anxious, and over the course of a few days you build it up.

So basically the dog starts to realise that it's a mundane thing for you, so it starts to become something he can relax about.

We started off that way with our lad and to his credit - though he's still a pain in the ass out in the garden - he's a dream in that way. You could trot off for an hour to the shops and he wouldn't give a damn. But we still keep it up - it's important not to change it. We still ignore him coming and going.

seamus

Shazanne wrote: »

My oldest, Millie, really only gets worked up when she is out, ie; at the vet's, visiting family/friends, walking if she meets another dog (particularly a female!).

There are lots of little things which we miss in our dogs, or interpret them incorrectly.
For example, a dog getting excited when something happens is usually interpreted by us as the dog loving it and being happy, so let's keep that going and reinforce it.

But it's not always so. It can also be a nervous reaction. If the dog is out of control and excited, it can be an indicator that the dog isn't entirely sure what to do and thinks that they are the ones who need to decide what to do next. In reality, you should be the one deciding what happens. The dog should wait (excitedly but patiently) for you to make whatever move and then follow you.
For example, in the case of meeting another dog, your dog can be excited, but should really wait for you to give them the nod before they pull you over to have a sniff. That's a fairly advanced behaviour (my dog doesn't do it...yet), and some people may not consider it strictly necessary, but it's developed through consistently demonstrating to the dog who is in charge (you!).

My Staff has been pushing boundaries for a while now, but it's so easy to ignore it or think, "Ahh, isn't she cute", but it does end up spiralling out of control. So we're clamping down on it now before it becomes a big problem - she has to learn that she's the dog, we're the people, we're in charge at all times. And this has to be continually reinforced. For example, when the doorbell rings she gets excited - she wants to go see who it is. But this is her taking control, she's scoping out the visitor first. We should be welcoming the guest and making the determination. This means that the dog will accept the guest quicker. So this is one of the "little things" that we've had to change. And you need to be constantly on the lookout for these little things, because you can miss them so easily. For example - the person who enters and exits through doorways first. If it's the dog, then you're allowing the dog to lead the way. If it's you, then you're clearly in charge.

A dog who knows the rules is a happy dog. On top of this, a dog who knows that you're in charge, will be more relaxed in strange places and scenarios because they trust that you know what you're doing.

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

There are lots of little things which we miss in our dogs, or interpret them incorrectly.
For example, a dog getting excited when something happens is usually interpreted by us as the dog loving it and being happy, so let's keep that going and reinforce it.

But it's not always so. It can also be a nervous reaction. If the dog is out of control and excited, it can be an indicator that the dog isn't entirely sure what to do and thinks that they are the ones who need to decide what to do next. In reality, you should be the one deciding what happens. The dog should wait (excitedly but patiently) for you to make whatever move and then follow you.
For example, in the case of meeting another dog, your dog can be excited, but should really wait for you to give them the nod before they pull you over to have a sniff. That's a fairly advanced behaviour (my dog doesn't do it...yet), and some people may not consider it strictly necessary, but it's developed through consistently demonstrating to the dog who is in charge (you!).

My Staff has been pushing boundaries for a while now, but it's so easy to ignore it or think, "Ahh, isn't she cute", but it does end up spiralling out of control. So we're clamping down on it now before it becomes a big problem - she has to learn that she's the dog, we're the people, we're in charge at all times. And this has to be continually reinforced. For example, when the doorbell rings she gets excited - she wants to go see who it is. But this is her taking control, she's scoping out the visitor first. We should be welcoming the guest and making the determination. This means that the dog will accept the guest quicker. So this is one of the "little things" that we've had to change. And you need to be constantly on the lookout for these little things, because you can miss them so easily. For example - the person who enters and exits through doorways first. If it's the dog, then you're allowing the dog to lead the way. If it's you, then you're clearly in charge.


A dog who knows the rules is a happy dog. On top of this, a dog who knows that you're in charge, will be more relaxed in strange places and scenarios because they trust that you know what you're doing.

I beg to disagree on this. We ask the dogs to go out before us always. Safety for us with disabilities so we see exactly where they are at all times.
A dog following can be a little dangerous at times to frail folk.

And we are not utter controllers as you are on these small matters..

seamus

Graces7 wrote: »

I beg to disagree on this. We ask the dogs to go out before us always. Safety for us with disabilities so we see exactly where they are at all times.

Well I should maybe clarify a little better.

If the dog is pushing you out of the way to get out the door before you, you need to consider why and what that says to the dog. If the dog waits for your permission before going through the door, you don't have a problem.
Different environments have different rules and needs of course, it would be impossible to generate any kind of definitive list of "things which you need to do with your dog", because what's acceptable behaviour for my dog and my needs (trying to keep the dog walking beside me), would be different to yours.

Qualitymark

seamus wrote: »

Well I should maybe clarify a little better.

If the dog is pushing you out of the way to get out the door before you, you need to consider why and what that says to the dog. If the dog waits for your permission before going through the door, you don't have a problem.
Different environments have different rules and needs of course, it would be impossible to generate any kind of definitive list of "things which you need to do with your dog", because what's acceptable behaviour for my dog and my needs (trying to keep the dog walking beside me), would be different to yours.

Really, this behaviour just means that you need to train your dog in a good sit-stay.

What I'd do is train this for feeding time, and extend it to door time.

When you're feeding your dog, put the food in the bowl and have some treats ready. Tell your dog to 'sit' (I assume you've trained 'sit'?), and hold the bowl, but don't put it down yet. Gradually lower the bowl, but every time the dog goes to get up and leap at the food, raise the bowl again, and say 'sit!'.

When your dog is able to sit until you've put the bowl down, stand back and let her at it, walk away, and then when she's finished, give her treats and petting.

This is a very good behaviour to teach a dog anyway, for safety - both that of any child or elderly person who might be feeding the dog, and for the dog's own, in the horrible case that she ever gets lost. A mannerly eater gets a nicer home.

When you have this behaviour nicely established, extend it to answering the door. Have some treats in a jar by the door, and reinforce calm, nice behaviour.

When my dog hears someone at the door she practically bays at the top of her voice. "POSTMAAAAN! UNDER ATTAAAACK!"

I say calmly: "Thank you, good dog, that's enough now," and only when she's sitting quietly do I open the door. Good, quiet, mannerly behaviour is rewarded by occasional treats. Everyone's happier.

sionnaic

Qualitymark wrote: »

....
When my dog hears someone at the door she practically bays at the top of her voice. "POSTMAAAAN! UNDER ATTAAAACK!"
...

this made me laugh!

I know exactly what you mean Puts the heart across me when he does it too, it just comes out of nowhere and makes me jump out of my skin.

Qualitymark

sionnaic wrote: »

this made me laugh!

I know exactly what you mean Puts the heart across me when he does it too, it just comes out of nowhere and makes me jump out of my skin.

And then you open the door and the dog scoots behind you and peeks out in terror :eek::p

Shazanne

To Qualitymark about what Millie does; She barks like a mad thing!! She probably cannot even hear me trying to calm her down.

Qualitymark

Shazanne wrote: »

To Qualitymark about what Millie does; She barks like a mad thing!! She probably cannot even hear me trying to calm her down.

Hm. Just shut her in a room, I'd say.

The theory on barking is that you should train a dog to bark on command, and then she'll stop, but I've never found this worked.

What works for me is just b e i n g v e r y c a l m.

tk123

sionnaic wrote: »

this made me laugh!

I know exactly what you mean Puts the heart across me when he does it too, it just comes out of nowhere and makes me jump out of my skin.

The same with our guy - he hears the gate and growls then if there's a knock on the door he stands behind the door and barks "STRANGER DANGER!!!":rolleyes: We have NO problems with people leaving the gate open anymore - I think they're afraid he'll come out and eat them - more like lick them to death lol He also barks when he hears my car which everyone except me thinks is amusing :pac::pac:

Graces7

Qualitymark wrote: »

Hm. Just shut her in a room, I'd say.

The theory on barking is that you should train a dog to bark on command, and then she'll stop, but I've never found this worked.

What works for me is just b e i n g v e r y c a l m.

Wee dog here was trained from the start NOT to bark in the house. And she stops fast when reminded; sometimes the less well trained collie starts and wee dog cannot resist joining in.;) But she stops when told to stop.

But she is also trained to "see off" the magpies... So when we say, "see them off.." off she goes barking and bouncing.. and stops on command. When the birds have gone..Proud of her....

Graces7

Qualitymark wrote: »

Really, this behaviour just means that you need to train your dog in a good sit-stay.

What I'd do is train this for feeding time, and extend it to door time.

When you're feeding your dog, put the food in the bowl and have some treats ready. Tell your dog to 'sit' (I assume you've trained 'sit'?), and hold the bowl, but don't put it down yet. Gradually lower the bowl, but every time the dog goes to get up and leap at the food, raise the bowl again, and say 'sit!'.

When your dog is able to sit until you've put the bowl down, stand back and let her at it, walk away, and then when she's finished, give her treats and petting.

This is a very good behaviour to teach a dog anyway, for safety - both that of any child or elderly person who might be feeding the dog, and for the dog's own, in the horrible case that she ever gets lost. A mannerly eater gets a nicer home.

When you have this behaviour nicely established, extend it to answering the door. Have some treats in a jar by the door, and reinforce calm, nice behaviour.

When my dog hears someone at the door she practically bays at the top of her voice. "POSTMAAAAN! UNDER ATTAAAACK!"

I say calmly: "Thank you, good dog, that's enough now," and only when she's sitting quietly do I open the door. Good, quiet, mannerly behaviour is rewarded by occasional treats. Everyone's happier.

Sounds long winded and complicated; we have never used treats, period,; simply told and got obedience. for the love of us and from good training. Simply NO is enough...for every situation.

TooManyDogs

Qualitymark wrote: »

The theory on barking is that you should train a dog to bark on command, and then she'll stop, but I've never found this worked.

From what I understand the theory behind teaching them to bark on command is that it's then easy to link the action to another command like 'enough' or whatever. So you can ask them to 'speak' and then ask them to stop and they understand what you mean rather than you trying to tell them to stop barking when they haven't a notion what it is exactly you have a problem with.

Mind you if it's a choice between obeying you or making the postman understand that there's a highly trained guard dog on the job, defending the house against all manner of letters and junk mail I know what most dogs would choose!

Cherry Blossom

I incorporated the barking into house-training - dog barks, gets taken out side, every time without fail. I've had no problems whatsoever with either barking or toilet accidents, she barks when she wants out and shuts up the rest of the time except when someone approaches the front door (which gets one quiet woof) and when there's scarey stuff/dogs barking on tv :rolleyes: