Tenant house flooded - what to do??

Pkiernan

Treehouse72 wrote: »

I'm a raging right-wing capitalist. That's why I hate so many modern Irish landlords - fast-buck chasing, ignorant, unprofessional amateurs who want state subsidies, tax breaks and on-going lender forbearance to support their ill-conceived and loss-making investment decisions. Most of them aren't capitalists or businesspeople at all - they are just chancers and spoofers looking to game our cronyistic, gombeen-infested system. Entirely different things. And it is these peoples' idiotic decisions that have helped cause our national bankruptcy. I guess many of them had, erm, fanciful opinions that they'd be millionaires. Oh well.

And everyone note the phrase "well-intentioned"...could that be any more patronising? As though people here are naive children and the folk over at IrishLandlord are grown-up realists. The truth is largely the exact opposite - it'll just take a bit more time for them to understand that massive debt does not equal massive wealth and that buying property as an investment at any point after about 2003 was an investment error. Our friend here STILL seems to think that investing in property during a property bubble was somehow a cold-headed business decision, and not just going along with the herd like an embarrassingly naive sucker.

I don't think you're an imperialist devil worshiper, just a very silly boy.

Why am I a silly boy? For pointing the OP in the right direction?

For giving him ACCURATE advice - and not the nonsense that some others have pointed?

This forum is more frequented by tenants facing problems at the hands of dirtbag landlords, and as a result advice give to LL's like the OP is quite often biased and inaccurate.

Have alook at some of the posts on this forum if you don't believe me.

You should apologise for personally insulting me, I did not insult you in any way.

You have also insulted the OP, when all he did was ask a question. Shame on you sir.

delllat

smccarrick wrote: »

Just why do you imagine that the landlord has an obligation to provide alternate accommodation for the tenant?

Given the changes in most insurance policies after the drubbing insurance companies took last January- its more probable that not that any flood damage may take a lot longer to assess and rectify (than previously).

I'm opening this to the floor- please indicate where in Irish legislation that its stated that its the duty of a landlord to source or pay for alternate accommodation in a situation such as this.

Please note- in common with the thread from last January- links to websites or UK or French law- are not what is being sought here- Irish law in Ireland please.

there is no law that says tenants must be given a hotel after flooding your property and leaving it uninhabitable

i would tell them to make other arrangments before id start looking for hotels for them

and someone mentioned landlords should pay for their meals as well ,NO CHANCE !

what about the landlords mortgage when the house is flooded ? is the tenant going to cover it considering it could be higher than the rent ?

OS119

delllat wrote: »

what about the landlords mortgage when the house is flooded ? is the tenant going to cover it considering it could be higher than the rent ?

the LL's business model is his problem. if he is selling a product at a lower price than it costs himto provide it he should either find a new business model or seek Psychiatric help.

only two things matter to the OP - the Law, and his future business. if the law says he should provide alternative accomodation then he provides alternative accomodation. if he doesn't like that he should consider this an expensive reminder that a fool and his money are soon parted. if the OP believes that he is unlikely to get new tenants should the current tenants go elsewhere, then it may well be worth paying for alternative accomodation as a loss-leader.

Treehouse72

delllat wrote: »

what about the landlords mortgage when the house is flooded ? is the tenant going to cover it considering it could be higher than the rent ?

Post of the Year.

delllat

OS119 wrote: »

the LL's business model is his problem. if he is selling a product at a lower price than it costs himto provide it he should either find a new business model or seek Psychiatric help.

only two things matter to the OP - the Law, and his future business. if the law says he should provide alternative accomodation then he provides alternative accomodation. if he doesn't like that he should consider this an expensive reminder that a fool and his money are soon parted. if the OP believes that he is unlikely to get new tenants should the current tenants go elsewhere, then it may well be worth paying for alternative accomodation as a loss-leader.

unfortunately theres probably a lot of negative equity out there now among the buy-to-let generation but of course ,thats the landlords problem if he cant pay his mortgage and also loses half a years rent

the landlord is obliged to go by the lease and that address is the only one he has to rent out
i have yet to see a lease that says tenants must be put in a hotel and given free meals until the damage they caused is fixed

if there are such leases i want one

delllat

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Post of the Year.

century??

windsurfer99ie

Graces7 wrote: »

Given the weather already in force then, they should have drained the system and turned the water off; maybe next time give out a fact sheet to ensure that this is done? And make sure they know how to do this.

The main reason for the present water crisis in so many areas is burst pipes in holiday lets; few think to drain and turn off.

That is good maintenance practice.

And we are on the brink of another freezing spell.
Maybe we can leaarn from this one?

+1

As a homeowner, it is my responsibility to turn off the water if I leave my home. A tenant has a similiar duty of care whether or not it is expressly written into your tenancy agreement. As an additional safeguard, If you do not have a clause like the following in your tenancy agreement then you should put it in:

"7) Attend to any minor repairs (such as replacing light bulbs) or preventative maintenance (such as draining the water system if the property is to be left unoccupied during the winter) which s/he may reasonably be expected to undertake. "

Graces7

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

+1

As a homeowner, it is my responsibility to turn off the water if I leave my home. A tenant has a similiar duty of care whether or not it is expressly written into your tenancy agreement. As an additional safeguard, If you do not have a clause like the following in your tenancy agreement then you should put it in:

"7) Attend to any minor repairs (such as replacing light bulbs) or preventative maintenance (such as draining the water system if the property is to be left unoccupied during the winter) which s/he may reasonably be expected to undertake. "

Thank you.. reading some of the other posts I was starting to wonder.

Draining the system is the way to prevent bursts; period. Not all have sophisticated timers etc or even oil heating.

The real problem is that Ireland is poorly educated re what to do when we get these extremes. We are from the UK with Canadian family and these countries, Canada especially, are much more geared to severe frosts.

And draining the system is the simplest thing to do; really it is! smcarrick please note.. even "I" unskilled in DIY know how to do this. And you cannot imagine that second home owners in the numbers there are here will leave heating on all winter?

It is standard practice everywhere but Ireland.

The_Conductor

Graces7- I'm thrilled that you have the common sense to drain a system if you're going away for a little while in the midst of winter- unfortunately there are a lot of Irish out there who need to have these things spelt out to them. I agree with you- its not that difficult to do- but the average person out there would have a blank face if you suggested their radiators need bleeding. Unfortunately there is a culture of not accepting responsibility for any actions or inactions here- alongside a total absence of common sense among many people. I despair of many people- even the simple things- like don't pour boiling water on your frozen windscreen, simply seem to be alien to so many people.

With respect of the cold spells we've had recently- they are only unusual insofar as they happened so early in the winter, and were protracted in nature. Its not unusual to get sharp frosts of -10 or -12, we get these every year. Certainly -17 or -18 is a bit lower than normal, but not an awful lot lower. Plus- we did actually get a carbon copy of the cold spell back in January- however it appears people simply haven't learnt anything.

Depending on who you talk to- its entirely possible that the cold snaps will be a feature of our weather for the next 12-15 years, so we had sure as hell better get used to it fast.

The other thing that does my head in is why people don't clear their own steps/pathways/driveway- surely its common sense?

Arrrgghhhhhhh!!!!!

delllat

smccarrick wrote: »

The other thing that does my head in is why people don't clear their own steps/pathways/driveway- surely its common sense?

Arrrgghhhhhhh!!!!!

most people can check the internet now and see when the thaw is coming ,people are too lazy to go out everyday and shovel away something which is going to simply change to water in a couple of days

The_Conductor

delllat wrote: »

most people can check the internet now and see when the thaw is coming ,people are too lazy to go out everyday and shovel away something which is going to simply change to water in a couple of days

Off topic-

Aka people are perfectly happy to leave dangerous conditions and obstacles in their immediate vicinity- if they think that its only going to last a few days? Aside from weather forecasting being notoriously inaccurate (and I have studied meteorology at third level)- I simply don't understand the mindset that leaving any obstacle in-situ can ever be justified. Its the law in several EU and US states that you have to clear away snow and/or ice- and I, for one, am thrilled that both the current government and also the opposition parties have undertaken to legislate to require people (both commercial and residential) to clear their property along with public property adjacent to their property, in adverse weather conditions. The sticking point was/is the removal of liability from people who undertake these removal works, but are subsequently sued when someone slips or falls- its my understanding this liability is to be based on the compromise that was agreed for hill walkers.

Graces7

smccarrick wrote: »

Graces7- I'm thrilled that you have the common sense to drain a system if you're going away for a little while in the midst of winter- unfortunately there are a lot of Irish out there who need to have these things spelt out to them. I agree with you- its not that difficult to do- but the average person out there would have a blank face if you suggested their radiators need bleeding. Unfortunately there is a culture of not accepting responsibility for any actions or inactions here- alongside a total absence of common sense among many people. I despair of many people- even the simple things- like don't pour boiling water on your frozen windscreen, simply seem to be alien to so many people.

With respect of the cold spells we've had recently- they are only unusual insofar as they happened so early in the winter, and were protracted in nature. Its not unusual to get sharp frosts of -10 or -12, we get these every year. Certainly -17 or -18 is a bit lower than normal, but not an awful lot lower. Plus- we did actually get a carbon copy of the cold spell back in January- however it appears people simply haven't learnt anything.

Depending on who you talk to- its entirely possible that the cold snaps will be a feature of our weather for the next 12-15 years, so we had sure as hell better get used to it fast.

The other thing that does my head in is why people don't clear their own steps/pathways/driveway- surely its common sense?

Arrrgghhhhhhh!!!!!

Nice description of Ireland...

Not into statistics etc; but it has seemed the last two winters that the ice has lasted longer then in earlier years and so we all need to adapt and learn. Last winter draining the system was mentioned often on the weather board.

Yep; but sense is not very common... Here we are on a country lane with a long laneway so that does not apply..

We were trading at market in Macroom just before Christmas, and the council workers were out in force, strewing salt and chipping the hard ice of pavements.

mbiking123

I need some advise here, our house was flooded over the christmas and the management company called us to let us know that there was a lot of damage. We have the house rented but the tenants had gone home for christmas. Not sure if insurance company will cover all the damage as seemingly some of the pipes were old. What I need to ask is:

Can I have some clarification

How old is the house ?

Does the estate have a management company, or is the company you refer managing the actual tenants and not the estate

How come they became aware of the burst pipes, for example how come neighbours did not contact you

Is it a house or apartment ?

2 stroke

stressedagain wrote: »

Thanks for the advise,

.... they have been good tenants so dont want to lose them either

No they haven't, they neglected your house and are partly responsible.
If pipes in the attic are burst, they should have been properly insulated, heater and frost stat would be a good investment. Insurance company may tell you your not covered for plumbing damage buy they may still cover damage caused by leaks. Talk with an independant assessor may be worthwhile.