Why are Irish people so resistant to the metric system?

Iwannahurl

Another thread in AH ('How tall are you') got me wondering.

Why are Irish people so resistant to the metric system?

AFAIK (since I'm long out of the loop) metric measures are taught as standard in Irish primary and secondary schools. So why are Irish people young and old still going on about outdated and awkward miles, yards, feet, inches, stones, pounds and ounces?

I have seen French, German and Dutch traders in farmers' markets having to abandon the rationality and simplicity of metric weights because their Irish customers of all ages can't or won't bring themselves to order tomatoes or potatoes in grammes or kilos.

There are estate agents still banging on about acres, roods and perches. And even a paper like the Irish Times, including in its coverage of science and technology, can still be found mixing Imperial and metric units in the one page, sometimes the one article.

These clunky and eccentric Imperial units were bequeathed to us by our former colonial rulers. We kept them in 1937, along with the wig & gown and a host of other relics of the British Empire, when we could have ditched them and embraced metric as just one symbol of a new beginning for a new nation.

While there may have been practical reasons for hanging on to Imperial units in the early days, what possible excuse have we now, at the end of the first decade of the 21st Century? Why are our school-age children still stuck in the same fusty time-warp?

To the best of my knowledge the Irish government started to move formally towards the metric system as far back as 1969. I believe that the metric system may even have been officially adopted when we joined the EEC (or whatever it was called back in the day) and that the use of metric units was to become the standard in all sorts of applications and settings.

So how far have we progressed? I found the text below in the online archives of the Oireachtas (Seanad debates):

The superiority of the decimal system is incontestable from the point of view of arithmetical simplicity. For this reason alone I think the motion should commend itself to the Seanad. It is a very important fact that by adopting the metric system we would save at least, I think, two years' training of the children in school. One of the great drawbacks of the English system is the lack of any connection between one set of tables and another. They are mostly of a lengthy and complicated character, and involve an incalculable waste of time in learning during school years, and are mostly forgotten shortly afterwards. [...] The British system has really nothing to recommend it except the fact that it exists. It is hopelessly out of date.

"Hopelessly out of date." Senator J. T. O'Farrell (later Labour Party president) said that in 1923!

He must be spinning in his grave. Furiously, six feet under...

orourkeda

Because they're stupid

pablomakaveli

I love the metric system. It makes sense.

Spunge

My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it

Carl Sagan

I generally just use feet and inches along with kilos because everyone around me understands those.

Gaudizeit

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I love the metric system. It makes sense.

Ya it's miles better than the other one.

BigBenRoeth

When everyones used to the imperial system whats the point in changing

Turtyturd

We are still hung up on Marathon bars, Opal Fruits and penny jelly's never mind the metric system.

antodeco

There's no other country in the world that uses every measurement possible. Liters, pints, feet, miles, grams, pounds, etc. It's unique!

Pete M.

Another silly generalisation.

I always use metric when solving problems, but revert to the imperial vernacular when conversing with the traditionally inclined and elderly or yanks.

1 inch is approximately 25.4 mm btw.....

BigBenRoeth

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I have seen French, German and Dutch traders in farmers' markets having to abandon the rationality and simplicity of metric weights because their Irish customers of all ages can't or won't bring themselves to order tomatoes or potatoes in grammes or kilos.

Oh the humanity

Iwannahurl

Carl Sagan wrote: »

I generally just use feet and inches along with kilos because everyone around me understands those.

If everyone used metric then everyone would understand metric.

Mixing up the units is even more puzzling, IMO. For example, how do you easily work out BMI with ', " and kg?

orourkeda

Gaudizeit wrote: »

Ya it's miles better than the other one.

Miles O'Toole

pablomakaveli

Gaudizeit wrote: »

Ya it's kilometres better than the other one.

FYP

AntiMatter

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Mixing up the units is even more puzzling, IMO. For example, how do you easily work out BMI with ', " and kg?

It's as if you coughed mid-sentence.

Pete M.

BigBenRoeth wrote: »

When everyones used to the imperial system whats the point in changing

I remember someone saying that in 1983, it's one of my first memories.

And I reckon if we had a 'Dublin Commune' for just a little while we'd catch on:cool:

galwayrush

I drank 3.784 lites of beer last night.

ejmaztec

Feckin metric fascists, give em an inch and they'll take 1.609344 kilometres.:mad:

Guill

3 goats per cow makes sense.

25.4mm per inch is just crazy! how can there be 25.4 of something in 1?


All joking aside, my job requires me to use both, when i started the job i could not figure out inches. 10 years later i do some work in mm and some in inches.
We make stuff for America, UK and Europe.

whatsyourquota

Sometimes it just makes since not to use the metric system, your hardly going to go into a bar and ask for 568ml of beer please. Or the standard mile, everything seems to be a mile away in Ireland and I think its just weird to say thats about 1.6km away.
Obvioulsy I use the metric system for all calculations because otherwise the answer is just wrong

Iwannahurl

Pete M. wrote: »

Another silly generalisation.

I always use metric when solving problems, but revert to the imperial vernacular when conversing with the traditionally inclined and elderly or yanks.

1 inch is approximately 25.4 mm btw.....

Contradictory.

How can school-children be "traditionally inclined"? You ask them their height or to estimate a distance, and my bet is that most Irish kids will use Imperial units. That's not tradition, and if it's the vernacular then I wonder what that says about the effectiveness of our primary and secondary education?

Conor108

http://jeremyglover.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/lolcatz/images/20081209070916_funny-pictures-cat-curses-the-metric-system.jpg

Probably woulda gone insane if we used imperial units in physics...

Joey the lips

I work in Heating and plumbing bathrooms and tiles. Everything inheating is imperial after the boiler. Plumbing Imperial bathrooms. Imperial Tiles imperial.

I sell tiles in yards but buy in meters.


I calculate the meterage of rooms and convert it to yards.

Why? Yards apear cheaper because they are smaller.

FYI: It was calculated that 1/10 of all what america produces is exported so the cost to change all there systems to metric is not justified. Its imperial all the way for them


The only industry 100% metric is the Space and Nuclear industry

Femto/Pico/Nano/Micro/Milli/Cent/Meter/KM

TheMilkyPirate

I don't know how to put this into words but i know how long a mile is or an inch is or a foot is i'm not familiar with the metric system as well as i am with the imperial so i prefer the imperial system. If someone told me there car was doing 160mph i'd know it was going pretty damn fast but if someone told me there car was doing 190km/h i'd have to think about it which annoys me... alot. I'm lazy.

Carl Sagan

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If everyone used metric then everyone would understand metric.

Mixing up the units is even more puzzling, IMO. For example, how do you easily work out BMI with ', " and kg?

Well, I don't. And when I do, I just convert them?

I can use either system, but when any sort of measurement comes up in conversation, I'm always asked; what's that in feet? What's that in kg?

up for anything

If I asked any of you men how long is your penis, would you answer six inches or 150mm give or take a few millimetres?

ScumLord

Variety is the spice of life.

starlit

Whutttt!? I don't understand physics!

Claasman

'...who keeps the metric system down?'


'weeeee doooooo!!'

Iwannahurl

Joey the lips wrote: »

I work in Heating and plumbing bathrooms and tiles. Everything inheating is imperial after the boiler. Plumbing Imperial bathrooms. Imperial Tiles imperial.

I sell tiles in yards but buy in meters.


I calculate the meterage of rooms and convert it to yards.

Why? Yards apear cheaper because they are smaller.

FYI: It was calculated that 1/10 of all what america produces is exported so the cost to change all there systems to metric is not justified. Its imperial all the way for them


The only industry 100% metric is the Space and Nuclear industry

Femto/Pico/Nano/Micro/Milli/Cent/Meter/KM

What, even in France, home of Metric?

FFS, most of Africa is officially metric. Theoretically so is the UK.

Iwannahurl

up for anything wrote: »

If I asked any of you men how long is your penis, would you answer six inches or 150mm give or take a few millimetres?

I believe the answer to that is: "it's six inches long but I don't use it as a rule."

Iwannahurl

Carl Sagan wrote: »

Well, I don't. And when I do, I just convert them?

I can use either system, but when any sort of measurement comes up in conversation, I'm always asked; what's that in feet? What's that in kg?

I think that as a famous scientist you should stay (miles) away from people like that...

The Davestator

Sport is the same. Amateur boxers use kilogrammes and jockeys use pounds. Marathon uses miles but triathlons use km's etc.

up for anything

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I believe the answer to that is: "it's six inches long but I don't use it as a rule."

That was old when I was young which makes it prehistoric.

The other one was, "you wouldn't want it as a wart on your forehead!"

CrazyRabbit

Because going down to the pub and ordering 568ml of Guinness would just sound ridiculous.

Also, it's easier to visualise in some cases....like 6 feet rather than 1.8 metres.

I personally use a mix of metric and imperial.

Pete M.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Contradictory.

How can school-children be "traditionally inclined"? You ask them their height or to estimate a distance, and my bet is that most Irish kids will use Imperial units. That's not tradition, and if it's the vernacular then I wonder what that says about the effectiveness of our primary and secondary education?

How does the highlighted 'generalisation' contradict the highlighted 'vernacular'?

I simply mean that it is a generalisation to suggest that the 'Irish people' eschew the metric system. We don't.

However, the use of feet and inches and miles and furlongs etc. is widely used amongst older people (like me auld buck) and so that is when I revert.

Most kids these days are used to km/h speed signs and whether you're going 100 km/h or not rather than 60 m/h.

Any engineer or scientist uses the metric system so when we're actually using a system, it's the metric one, whereas if tis just shooting the breeze tis all feet and miles and yards (1 yard is 0.9144 metres btw).

At the end of the day a mile is 1.609 kilometres :pac:

Mrmoe

The most popular imperial measurement is the foot. It is popular because there really isn't an equivalent metric measurement, cm is too small and metre is too large for many common measurements. It is easier to give a rough measurement in feet than in cm or metres to a lesser extent.

Pete M.

up for anything wrote: »

If I asked any of you men how long is your penis, would you answer six inches or 150mm give or take a few millimetres?

154.4 mm.

or a good six inches

Iwannahurl

Pete M. wrote: »

How does the highlighted 'generalisation' contradict the highlighted 'vernacular'?

I simply mean that it is a generalisation to suggest that the 'Irish people' eschew the metric system. We don't.

However, the use of feet and inches and miles and furlongs etc. is widely used amongst older people (like me auld buck) and so that is when I revert.

Most kids these days are used to km/h speed signs and whether you're going 100 km/h or not rather than 60 m/h.

Any engineer or scientist uses the metric system so when we're actually using a system, it's the metric one, whereas if tis just shooting the breeze tis all feet and miles and yards (1 yard is 0.9144 metres btw).

At the end of the day a mile is 1.609 kilometres :pac:

I forgot to mention feckin furlongs.

Vernacular implies general or normal use.

Irish people continue to use the outdated and awkward Imperial system, and it is the foreigners resident here who have to adapt to our recalcitrant ways.

It's more than shooting the breeze. It's just plain daft using metric officially, eg speed limit signs, and then behaving as if they didn't exist.

I understand older people hanging on to the units they learned in school and used all their lives, but the kids?

Mr Benevolent

Aviation still uses a mix of metric and imperial measurements with few problems. Couldn't imagine myself moving away from using nautical miles tbh (and no, I'm not a real pilot, just a sim pilot)

Iwannahurl

Mrmoe wrote: »

The most popular imperial measurement is the foot. It is popular because there really isn't an equivalent metric measurement, cm is too small and metre is too large for many common measurements. It is easier to give a rough measurement in feet than in cm or metres to a lesser extent.

So all those people in established metric countries just hum and haw and wave their arms when asked for a rough measurement? I don't think so.

Pete M.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I understand older people hanging on to the units they learned in school and used all their lives, but the kids?

But I'm neither one nor the other :eek:

But I promise to promote the metric system with anyone younger than me.

My own kids would be all kilo-this and giga-that so I think we're future proofed anyway.

It's just like two different languages, once you can understand a couple and use them, you're away with it.

It's all relative dude

Iwannahurl

Confab wrote: »

Aviation still uses a mix of metric and imperial measurements with few problems. Couldn't imagine myself moving away from using nautical miles tbh (and no, I'm not a real pilot, just a sim pilot)

Don't start me on the nautical miles and Met Eireann's mixum gatherum approach to weather reports!

I understand aviation is dominated by (some) Imperial units, esp feet for altitude. I would speculate that this is due to American dominance in the sector, not any technical reason.

Although I vaguely recall that there may have been some serious incidents in the past due to confusion over units, which might explain the international use of feet in aviation.

JONJO THE MISER

Hey none of your fangled euro trash around here, it was acres when my father was ere as it was when my grandfather and great granfather, it is miles not kiliometres, they will never change us no matter what laws they make in fecking europe, everybody who goes to a butchers still asks for pounds of meat so feck off with your metric system back off to the them french fogs.

sh1tstirrer

Us farmers embraced the metric system years ago as far back as the year 2000.

SilverScreen

I work part-time in a hardware store and roughly every 1 in 10 customers give me imperial measurements. I was brought up with the metric system since primary school and i pretty much think in metric most of the time. Learning to convert between the two was an absolute nightmare at first but i eventually got the hang of it. I think the metric system is a far better system than the imperial, it's far easier to learn and understand and is way more accurate. I guess Irish people are just too used to traditions and far more resistant to change than their European counterparts

Iwannahurl

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Hey none of your fangled euro trash around here, it was acres when my father was ere as it was when my grandfather and great granfather, it is miles not kiliometres, they will never change us no matter what laws they make in fecking europe, everybody who goes to a butchers still asks for pounds of meat so feck off with your metric system back off to the them french fogs.

Jolly well said.

Rule Britannia!

rainbowtrout

Kids are sent off to school for 13 or so years with a 12 inch ruler in their schoolbag. Despite the fact that they learn everything in metric it's still easier to visualise a foot instead of a metre.

Old speed limits were 30/60 mph. 60 mins in an hour. Easy to calculate journey time. My car is in kilometres as are all the roadsigns, but I still convert to miles in my head to calculate journey times.

Pete M.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Jolly well said.

Rule Britannia!

Ha ha!

Now I got ya!

You make me want to be sick :pac::pac::pac:

BrokenArrows

i have to say that i mix and match the two systems.

Mrmoe

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So all those people in established metric countries just hum and haw and wave their arms when asked for a rough measurement? I don't think so.

No they don't. That was what I was refering to. Size 10/11 size for an adult would be close to 1 foot, it is a lot easier to visualise than the equivalent measuremnt in cm or metres. It is thsi particular measuremnt more so than any other as it is commonly used.