Bertie Ahern steps aside

LostinBlanch · 31-12-2010 2:04pm

First of all all involved in the peace process deserve acknowledgement and praise for their part in the peace process. So does Ahern.

But as for everything else he deserves to be held to account. His signing of books of blank cheques when he was Haugheys bagman. His resweetening of the dodgy deal that Ray Burke gave to Shell, he gave even more tax free allowances and royalties to shell. His conflicting accounts under oath to the tribunal about his finances, going abroad begging for money while he was minister of finance (if people choose to believe his digout tales). His evisceration of the freedom of information act which has allowed all kinds of dubious behaviour to continue in the darkness. It would nearly make you think that he was protecting himself.:rolleyes:

All this before we even begin to address his cowardice in making decisions other than throwing our money at those involved in the hopes of shutting them up, you know little things like benchmarking? Or the big daddy of them all, his utterly ruinous economic policies!

He will retire on God knows how many pensions, but that isn't any surprise as his sense of entitlement and attitude to state money was that it was his to do as he saw fit. The same with our oil and gas and other natural resources. In
this vein he wont change which is why I am concerned that in his role as head
of the international forestry fund he has his eyes on couples and all the land
that it owns. Keep a very close eye on that.

He is obviously so lacking in self awareness that he still has designs on the Aras.

flutered · 31-12-2010 2:07pm

he negotiated bench marking, do you see where it got him and us.

Sir Oxman · 31-12-2010 2:39pm

Keep an eye and an ear out for this very dishonest man - he's been busy feathering his retirement nest, expect to see his name pop up again and again when the firesale of what's left of his/FF's private fiefdom (Ireland) is finally done.

The true extent of his criminality will only be known if the people of the country cop on and demand total reform of their Republic.

jmayo · 31-12-2010 2:54pm

Fitzerb wrote: »

I think if we were to have a 360 degree discussion re Berti then people would have to consider the whole picture and not just allow themselves to be brain washed by the Irish media.
Firstly I have some respect for all politicians for two reasons.
1. I put them there…… so did you and if you didn’t then your opinion is diluted.
2. Living in the eye of a totally negative media is difficult. You will never hear of any good news stories about Ireland from the Iris media. It does not suit their cause. Bad news sells better and we still have a significant pocket of the workers party in RTE
Back to Berti:
My opinion of his career:
Some good, some bad but made a contribution to Ireland.
Nobody can doubt his work and commitment to the peace process and while we may be embarrassed waking up each morning knowing we are run by the IMF it is nothing compared to the embarrassment of waking up to the news of women and children shot dead or blown to bits in the name of Ireland. He deserves credit for his work in ending that nightmare.
Bench Marking. He got that badly wrong and it is going to be a serious challenge to unravel it.
Celtic Tiger: Is this Country in a better place now than it was in the late 80’s. I think for anyone who was part of the work force then the answer would be yes. However, he allowed the bubble to grow and should have put the brakes on the developers. Having said that, people who borrowed large sums of money to buy houses to pay the developers also carry some responsibility.
The Mahon Tribunal: We still await a verdict. My view is he lied his way into many corners to cover something. We can all speculate why but I wonder will we ever know.
I do think the affidavit he swore during his separation was a root cause of his lying.
I respect that people really get hot under the collar about politicians not being 100% h9onest in every dealing they conduct, but I don’t expect others to reach standards that I cant reach myself. I apply that to all politicians the only expectation I have is that if they are caught and it is proven then they should resign.
Anyways I would love a 360 degree discussion but lets be balanced and not just be head line readers.

Nice party political broadcast on behalf of bertie there. :rolleyes:

Basically you are syaing that you excuse him because you would have done the same.
Speak for yourself and stop insulting the rest of us who try and behave with a modicom of decency, ethics and honesty in our affairs.

BTW next time besides writing nauseating excuses for a piece of sh** that sold our country out, can you lose the size 3 calibri font.

jmayo · 31-12-2010 3:03pm

mfitzy wrote: »

From Breaking news.ie. Perhaps somebody has posted already;
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/bertie-ahern-does-not-rule-out-presidential-campaign-487520.html

From above article ....

Bertie Ahern's brother and Fianna Fáil TD Noel said he was proud of the former Taoiseach's economic legacy.

"Yes matters have unravelled, a little," he said, "but we retain much of what has been achieved and we just have to, sort of, regather ourselves now and move forward.

F***s sake.
Matters have unravelled a little ????

Entire Irish owned banking system insolvent.
Our 3 major banks and 2 building societies need lets say 90 billion of taxpayer guaranteed funds to stay afloat.
Note I am including all recapitalisation and NAMA purchases in that figure.

IMF and ECB had to be called in as we could no longer borrow on world markets, jobless figures rose by couple of hundred thousand and 100,000 are needed to emigrate to save the country.

And the arrogant pri** calls it a little unravelling. :mad::mad::mad:

oppenheimer1 · 31-12-2010 3:04pm

M three wrote: »

a) He was a thieving gangster
b) He was a thieving gangster
and
c) you should stay off the sauce mate

Attack the post and not the poster. If you can't abide by the charter then you have no place posting in this forum, mate.

Liam Byrne · 31-12-2010 3:10pm

galwayrush wrote: »

I thought my post was pretty clear and easy to understand.............

Anyone else in Bertie's position at the time would have done the same thing.

Clear and easy to understand, but completely incorrect.

Biggins · 31-12-2010 3:34pm

flutered wrote: »

he negotiated bench marking, do you see where it got him and us.

Definitely more him - than us!

jmayo wrote: »

...And the arrogant pri** calls it a little unravelling. :mad::mad::mad:

Its those convenient horse blinkers he and his supporters are wearing again!

Sir Oxman · 31-12-2010 3:39pm

At least, I suppose the Irish public is obviously not paying for his make-up anymore - silver lining and all that, eh?

Biggins · 31-12-2010 3:42pm

gambiaman wrote: »

At least, I suppose the Irish public is obviously not paying for his make-up anymore - silver lining and all that, eh?

We are just left paying for his leaving bonus, numerous pensions, cars, security, mobile phone and calls, meals and drinks expenses and on and on...

Rafa1977 · 31-12-2010 3:51pm

Now that he is quitting as a TD, does this mean that he has to give up the office that he has in the Oireachtas, which he goes in and uses every now and again.

Forcefield · 31-12-2010 3:58pm

I am beginning to get the sick feeling that the sneaky hoor is planning on actually running for Presidency. The sick feeling is because I think there are enough morons there to actually vote him in.

later12 · 31-12-2010 4:00pm

Rafa1977 wrote: »

Now that he is quitting as a TD, does this mean that he has to give up the office that he has in the Oireachtas, which he goes in and uses every now and again.

Yes but he will retain his secretaries. Yes, plural.

Sir Oxman · 31-12-2010 4:04pm

Rafa1977 wrote: »

Now that he is quitting as a TD, does this mean that he has to give up the office that he has in the Oireachtas, which he goes in and uses every now and again.

You mean the office which the OPW spent €250,000 on in 2008? Even that went over budget by 30k.
The one befitting a man of his 'stature', mosaic tiles in his private bathroom, the best of fittings for the man who brought peace and prosperity to us benighted Irish.

/sarcasm

Elevator · 31-12-2010 4:47pm

a wanker of the highest degree

he will get whats coming to him one way or another, karma will see to it!!

galwayrush · 31-12-2010 5:12pm

Originally Posted by galwayrush
I thought my post was pretty clear and easy to understand.............

Anyone else in Bertie's position at the time would have done the same thing.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Clear and easy to understand, but completely incorrect.

I should have quoted the original post i was responding to,;)

That was a response to someone claiming that only king rat Bertie could have achieved peace on this Island.:pac::pac:

Liam Byrne · 31-12-2010 5:21pm

galwayrush wrote: »

I should have quoted the original post i was responding to,;)

That was a response to someone claiming that only king rat Bertie could have achieved peace on this Island.:pac::pac:

Phew! Thought you'd gone rogue!

No worries, and you'll be glad to know the misunderstanding raised a giggle here!

:cool:

galwayrush · 31-12-2010 5:27pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Phew! Thought you'd gone rogue!

No worries, and you'll be glad to know the misunderstanding raised a giggle here! :cool:

Almost made me 'suicidal ' here.............:pac::pac:

mrboswell · 31-12-2010 5:57pm

Fitzerb wrote: »

This was a dreadful comment he made, but one he apologised for.
Do we really want a society where people are afraid of making a mistake that is never forgiven. If we do then nobody will ever take a chance. You cant judge years of work on a mistake and I sure hope mine working life is not remembered for one (of the many) mistakes I have made
Perhaps you have good reason for feeling bitter because of the comments but do you really think he was telling people to go and commit suicide

Maybe he should commit suicide and then we can close this thread...

heybaby · 31-12-2010 6:36pm

Bertie retires.. the end of an era..yes the end of something alright. Never in the history of this state has one man been responsible for such wanton criminal waste of public money.

Bertie's legacy is the HSE, a basket case of a public health service that discriminates between those that have the money to buy their health and those that dont.

Bertie's legacy is the frankenstein that became the the public sector unions, a relationship that has filled the pockets of public sector workers at the highest levels and ensured a slovenly, lazy, inefficient, overpaid, underworked and self congratulating workforce at the lower levels whose sense of entitlement is staggering in the extreme, I refer you to the chaos that was the passport office during the summer as an illustration of their contempt for the general public. You can thank Bertie for this appalling public sector attitude.

Berties legacy is the appalling state of psychiatric facilities throughout the country. While he will enjoy a pension of 151,000 euro a year till he dies, psychiatric patients endure dickensian conditions in 'hospitals', the length and breadth of the country, with treatment comprising over reliance on medication at the expense of integration into society at large. The subject of psychiatric illness isnt sexy, but Aherns abject refusal to recognise that the most infirm and vulnerable in society deserve equal treatment certainly for me speaks volumes about Ahern as a human being. Aherne cared more about appearing at the opening of an off-license in rathnew than he did about care for patients in delapidated hospitals in remote parts of the country.

At a time when ireland's economy was thriving and was the poster boy of europe in terms of its transformation from an economic basket case to top of the class Ahern basked in the glory of an electorate seduced by the euros thrown their way. The electorate cannot divest themselves of their part in the orgy that was the celtic tiger, Ahern was the people's nero, elected repeatedly because he told us what we wanted to hear and he lined our pockets with cheap ill-gotten cash. If Ahern ends up in the phoenix park in any capacity other than that of a citizen walking his dog, then you can rename this country zimbabwe. Good riddance to bad rubbish, and the most wasteful citizen this country has ever had to endure.

Biggins · 31-12-2010 6:40pm

Fionnan Sheahan: Derided, reviled and shrouded in failure

BERTIE Ahern did his best to defy Enoch Powell's prediction on the end of political careers -- but he too failed.

Often misquoted as "all political careers end in failure", the controversial Tory MP actually wrote in his 1977 biography of Joseph Chamberlain: "All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure, because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs."

In Mr Ahern's case, he got away with standing down as Taoiseach before the economic, fiscal and banking crisis got into full flow.

But the damage from his 11 years in power set the country on the path to where it finds itself today -- dependent on an international rescue package to pay the bills, high unemployment and crippling debts.

Last night, when he sounded the deathknell on his career, it was an inglorious end to his political life. The most electorally successful politician of his generation will go down in the history books as one of the most derided.

The Bertie Ahern era will not be remembered fondly and his style of leadership will come to be remembered as representing all that was bad about the populist politics of the Celtic Tiger period.

Mr Ahern himself still chooses to blame the collapse of the Lehman Brothers bank in New York for sparking a global crisis which sucked in Ireland.

However, the reality of this country's predicament, in the view of most right-thinking people, is vastly different.

Mr Ahern led a Government which spent too much, taxed too little, reduced the regulation of the banking sector and fuelled a property bubble.

Again, last night, as he formally announced his retirement at his St Luke's headquarters, Mr Ahern attempted to gloss over the bad times and focus on the halcyon days.

"The truth about the achievements of the past decade and about the prospects for the one unfolding in front of us now is that despite what the critics may say, neither extreme of arrogant over-confidence or self-defeating pessimism is justified or helpful."

Mr Ahern continued: "Ireland is not 'banjaxed'. Ireland is not 'an economic corpse'. Ireland is a country of real achievement and, yes, of real and pressing problems.

"The truth is that our country will recover. We will regain our stride and we will succeed in holding on to many of the gains we have made together."

Similar to his successor, Brian Cowen, Mr Ahern is incapable of accepting the failings on his part or contemplating an apology to the nation for his part in the current crisis.

"I dearly wish there was no crisis. I realise that it would have been better if some things had been done differently. But I will not denigrate the good that has been done, or belittle the effort it took to achieve it.

"The onward trajectory of this island's destiny is forward-moving, it is progressive, it is the fairer and republican society we aspire to," he said.

Bertie Ahern's Fianna Fail always took credit for the good and blamed someone for the bad. When the balance is on the plus side, they got away with it -- but not any longer.

In his own inimitable fashion, he can try and blunder and bluster his way out of accepting any blame but the verdict of many is damning.

Mr Ahern will fade away into retirement with a whimper. Like his mentor Charlie Haughey, Fianna Fail will write him out of their own history in years to come for fear of reminding people of his influence -- a sad decline to a highly successful political career.

Sections of his party are embarrassed by his leadership and ashamed of the blight it has left on Fianna Fail's reputation.

The glory days are forgotten.

Winning three general elections in a row -- the best record in the modern era -- he brought his party into three successive coalition governments and came close to securing an overall majority.

His 'all things to all people' style of leadership was both his greatest strength and weakness.

The building of consensus, which he mastered in his first ministerial portfolio as Minister for Labour, served him well over time -- in healing a riven party, putting coalitions together and sealing partnership agreements.

But did it always serve the country well? Not having someone to take a firm stand for the national interest did damage for which we're paying now.

His record on the economy is in tatters and his beloved social-partnership model is blamed for many of the excesses.

Northern Ireland will be the part of his record that emerges with favour. The enormous personal commitment he dedicated to bringing about a lasting peaceful settlement there was unquestionable.

He made an enormous contribution to the Good Friday Agreement and its subsequent implementation, which now sees the North run by a power-sharing government, headed up by unionists and republicans.

But his personal character has taken a battering. The grubby details of his personal finances, as revealed by the Mahon Tribunal, stripped him of credibility.

He survived the initial flood of developments in September 2006 and the 2007 general election on the back of a wave of public sympathy. But the rot had set in. Even as he vindictively marked the election victory, he knew his time was limited and he began to pave the way for the succession of Mr Cowen.

The tide of public opinion turned with the sobbing of Grainne Carruth, the loyal secretary who was forced to give testimony about his banking transactions.

By the time he was claiming to have won a substantial sum of unexplained money on a horse, he was reduced to a laughing stock, even among his formally ardent supporters.

The tribunal report itself may prove to be a cruel judgment.

Always a good judge of the public mood, he knew it was time to go and stood down as Taoiseach in April 2008.

Falling back to his comfort zone of his Dublin Central constituency, the backlash was merciless. His brother Maurice was brutally beaten in the 2009 by-election and Mr Ahern's Drumcondra Mafia power base was virtually wiped out in the local elections on the same day.

Facing into the 2011 General Election, Mr Ahern would have expected to get elected, but he would have needed to draw upon the reserves of personal work over the years as his success was not guaranteed.

While his personal organisation may have been highly successful during his time, it is unlikely to pass to another generation.

The notion of him running for President of Ireland next year is derisory.

Paying tribute to Mr Ahern last night, Mr Cowen said his decision not to contest the next General Election "truly marks the end of an era".

No tears will be shed for this ending.

Mr Haughey accurately described Bertie Ahern as the most skilful, most cunning, most devious of them all.

Not even these attributes could prevent him departing from politics with a tarnished legacy.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/fionnan-sheahan-derided-reviled-and-shrouded-in-failure-2479518.html

Tenger · 01-01-2011 12:38am

cavedave wrote: »

Pretty much everyone involved in the peace process has been glowing about how much work he did to bring about a permanent end to violence on this island.

IMO the contribution of Bertie has been overblown by Bertie and his supporters. Many forget that much of the important groundwork was done by Albert Reynolds, Bertie was there for the end. He wasn't the one taking chances with his political career, Abert was. According to Bertie himself and Tony were the only 2 involved in the Peace Process.

dixiefly · 01-01-2011 3:22am

If the state had paid Bertie and McCreevy 1 billion euro to stay away for the last ten years we would be in much better shape today imo.

mikemac · 01-01-2011 7:29am

Winning three general elections in a row -- the best record in the modern era -- he brought his party into three successive coalition governments and came close to securing an overall majority.

Close but not quite there

In my opinion, no party in Ireland has won an election in decades. Entering a coalition isn't a win, it's a compromise.

That goes for every single party who hopes to form a government some day

irishh_bob · 01-01-2011 12:41pm

heybaby wrote: »

Bertie retires.. the end of an era..yes the end of something alright. Never in the history of this state has one man been responsible for such wanton criminal waste of public money.

Bertie's legacy is the HSE, a basket case of a public health service that discriminates between those that have the money to buy their health and those that dont.

Bertie's legacy is the frankenstein that became the the public sector unions, a relationship that has filled the pockets of public sector workers at the highest levels and ensured a slovenly, lazy, inefficient, overpaid, underworked and self congratulating workforce at the lower levels whose sense of entitlement is staggering in the extreme, I refer you to the chaos that was the passport office during the summer as an illustration of their contempt for the general public. You can thank Bertie for this appalling public sector attitude.

Berties legacy is the appalling state of psychiatric facilities throughout the country. While he will enjoy a pension of 151,000 euro a year till he dies, psychiatric patients endure dickensian conditions in 'hospitals', the length and breadth of the country, with treatment comprising over reliance on medication at the expense of integration into society at large. The subject of psychiatric illness isnt sexy, but Aherns abject refusal to recognise that the most infirm and vulnerable in society deserve equal treatment certainly for me speaks volumes about Ahern as a human being. Aherne cared more about appearing at the opening of an off-license in rathnew than he did about care for patients in delapidated hospitals in remote parts of the country.

At a time when ireland's economy was thriving and was the poster boy of europe in terms of its transformation from an economic basket case to top of the class Ahern basked in the glory of an electorate seduced by the euros thrown their way. The electorate cannot divest themselves of their part in the orgy that was the celtic tiger, Ahern was the people's nero, elected repeatedly because he told us what we wanted to hear and he lined our pockets with cheap ill-gotten cash. If Ahern ends up in the phoenix park in any capacity other than that of a citizen walking his dog, then you can rename this country zimbabwe. Good riddance to bad rubbish, and the most wasteful citizen this country has ever had to endure.

unless you were a serious threat to society pre 2003 ( law was changed around then ) you wont be detained in a mental institution against your will in this country , we have an incredibly liberal polcy towards those who are not the full schilling in this country , you litterally have to kill somoene before you are sent to the big house and with the ghastly and misguided CARE IN THE COMMUNITY programe being put in place , it wont be long before the doors are opened in every mental hospital in the country and every nutcase is allowed walk free

the system is completley and utterley dominated by liberals , i seriously doubt bertie had anything to do with it

dan_d · 01-01-2011 3:10pm

I could not believe, at the last election, that FF were elected back in, and with them, Bertie Ahern. I was absolutely speechless with rage at the time. I just did not understand how people couldn't see that the policies of the Gov were so wrong, and that the country was being slowly destroyed by them - it was a matter of "when" not "if".

I, for one, am wholeheartedly thrilled to see the back of Bertie Ahern. His achievements are minimal at best. Any good he might have accomplished has been totally overshadowed and completely outweighed by the level of damage he has wrought. I will not be falling into the typical Irish trap of "ah shure, now that he's retiring, wasn't he a great lad". No.He wasn't. He accomplished some minor victories, many of them built on the backs of previous hard work by other people. And he oversaw (and wrought) absolute devastation throughout the country, financially and politically.

In the face of the inevitable onslaught of commentary about Mr. Ahern's "achievements" and "successes" over the next few days, can those of us with a sense of perspective try and continue to see him for what he really is.And little of what he really is, is complimentary.

Biggins · 01-01-2011 4:06pm

I firmly believe that all that is wrong with Irish politics is summed up as Bertie Ahern - a world class example of underhandedness, deceit and lies.

I cannot recommend enough the book "The Drumcondra Mafia" (see HERE) as essential reading.
After reading that one detailed book of his antics (and his mates antics with him), there should be no one in the country that should defend him.
...However sadly there will be, for some in their blindness/stupidity, refuse to accept the truth!

That one book alone should be provided to every household in the country before the next election!
On my own website, I intent to indicate the contents of every chapter of it for all to read shortly!

maynooth_rules · 01-01-2011 4:21pm

He degraded politics in this country to a cesspool of scratch my back ill scratch your back horse****e. I was one of the people who could see through the smarmy man of the people crap from 6 years ago. The man has no moral compass, cares more about the money in his pocket than anything else and has played a significant part in turning this country into the laughing stock of the world that we became this year. Stick to the cupboards Bertie, i sincerely hope I never have to see your face again and I will forever detest you for your part in bringing the country to where it is today