When's the actual new year?

Coriolanus

So, schoolkids and the dogs in the street know the calendar doesn't represent reality but presumably the actual progression of our orbit is tracked.
So when is the real new year this year? Or has it passed?

rccaulfield

What do you mean? The orbit has no defined places , i suppose the solstice is the new year in terms of the angle of tilt reaching the minumum?

Coriolanus

Yeah, I vuess. Solstice is verifiable...
Would it be the case that the "new year" drifted from the solstice.

Da Jimmy

well "new years" is just a date on the calender so its when ever it says it is.
but if you want to get technical it takes 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 46 seconds to complete one orbit and not all the leap days and seconds are given within the same year therefore the earth is never in the exact same place each new years (but very very close)
also true midnight is only exactly 00:00 when your on a longitude which is a multiple of 15° or 0°. so for example if u where in dublin (-6°) midnight would be 00:24

b.o.m.d.a.s.

well going by my reading of the stars, and my personal calculation of the stars, the new year will happen in the middle of August , til then, happy new year.


edit: So what yeah well well, that is the first word from each post on this thread so far, so what yeah well well

rccaulfield

b.o.m.d.a.s. wrote: »

well going by my reading of the stars, and my personal calculation of the stars, the new year will happen in the middle of August , til then, happy new year.


edit: So what yeah well well, that is the first word from each post on this thread so far, so what yeah well well

Reading of the stars so what well well, are you feeling ok?

Op- The solstice used to be december 25th until the Romans changed things(Perhaps the origin for christs birthday celebration as no one knows what month he was born let alone year? Idle spec of course!). The new year used to be the last day of February and so december was the 10th month(Decem is latin for ten!) Its an arbitrary date really but the calender works well however it will drift over the course of thousands of years!

gkell1

The best way to answer the question is to look at what happens on February 29th and why a 24 hour day is needed,as our astronomical heritage is among the oldest and distinguished in the world ,Irish readers should have no real difficulties going through the ins and outs of it and it is a great story as any that is out there.

It is one of those things where you can visit any time in history and piece together the details like you would a jigsaw puzzle but I think it is only fair to start with the Egyptians who proudly announced the creation of a leap day correction after every 4 years in what is called the 'Decree of Canopus' -

"therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day as feast of Benevolent Gods [the pharaoh and family] be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the New Year, whereby all men shall learn, that what was a little defective in the order as regards the seasons and the year, as also the opinions which are contained in the rules of the learned on the heavenly orbits, are now corrected and improved " Canopus decree, 238 BC

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/canopus_decree.htm

Whereas our astronomical ancestors considered Dec 21st mid-winter as it is the darkest period of the year,the Americans start winter on the Solstice as their winters have more of a meteorological bite to it while the Egyptians started their year off with the rise of the star Sirius after a 70 day disappearance and shortly after that the flooding of the Nile and its importance for local agriculture.The point is that the start of an orbital cycle would have depended on what was most important to a society and their location,still is.

This is a type of topic which would attract a curios mind but all too often many assume there is some tangled web of technical points to get through when nothing can be further from the truth,there are points where it is as intricate as a Celtic pattern but that generally adds to the satisfaction of seeing the pieces fit together rather than give the reader a headache. The story of the calendar builders and their system is worth telling for many,many reasons,some historical,some technical and just a sense of human achievement where these people from remote antiquity can teach us a thing or two,most of all,it is a journey to discover a depth to human nature that can get lost in this technologically advanced era.