guy selling dog please read content

Discodog

For some strange reason we see "working" dogs as a sub species. They are often denied the basic entitlements because their purpose is deemed to be serving us. A local farmer once told me that his sheepdog had "gone to the sea" because she was too old to work. The dog gave him 10 years of loyal service - he showed his thanks by tying it to rock at low tide.

So we have 10,000 Greyhounds being killed each year, hunt kennels, gun dogs, guard dogs etc who all serve us & often make us money or provide, so called, entertainment. They are seen as a commodity that can be bought, sold & disposed of as we see fit.

When we bring in welfare law like the Dog Breeding Bill the Greyhound owners & hunt kennels bitterly oppose it & our weak government gives in to them. The same people have tried to get exclusions in the UK to being covered by their Animal Welfare Law.

So this advert is nothing new & such ads will part of life here for decades to come.

Nozebleed

people putting clothes on dogs and carrying them around in handbags are the reason this forum has gone to ****. not threads like this.

John_Rambo

Bambi wrote: »

Ah sure 'tis a hunting dog, youse soft city folk wouldn't understand

No, sure we are all prancing around in gay bars drinking fancy coffees and saying "roight" to each other.

Give the "wise, sage, cute hoer old bogger" act a miss, it just makes you sound dumb.

Edit... If you are taking the piss, I'm sorry, it's funny!

Discodog

scudzilla wrote: »

Thread's like this are the reason why this forum has gone to shiit lately and why i and many others tend to just touch on the main page here now.

Let's hope the Mod's can deal with it this year or we'll end up with another year like 2010

The OP has started a perfectly valid debate in a section for Animal & pet issues not the Hunting forum. He is entitled to his view & to express how he feels about it. 2011 should be the year that we actually welcome debate here. People should be able to express their view & also be willing to have it challenged.

There is this weird illusion that a dog bred for a "purpose" will only be happy if it continues the pursuit. So my Greyhound, who's passion is the fire, would really be happier out chasing Hares. It is utter rubbish. You can "condition" a dog to do practically anything.

Every rescue in the country takes in dogs that have had one kind of life & then they adapt to something different. What the OP & Doubleglaze are trying to explain in that Dogs form especially close social bonds with their owners - far more so than in any other species. Some could even argue that separating a dog from it's owner is cruel.

Some argue here that the owner is being responsible because he hasn't shot the dog or dumped it. Surely we don't set our standards from the lowest & then move up.

vibe666

Discodog wrote: »

So this advert is nothing new & such ads will part of life here for decades to come.

and there's another one. :rolleyes:

i'm not going to even waste my time re-typing the same thing because its just not worth the effort, so here it is from my previous post.

vibe666 wrote: »

and there we have it!!! :rolleyes:

you have no evidence whatsoever that there has been any mistreating of any dogs, you don't know this man, you've never seen him, his dogs, where he keeps them or how he treats them 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand in fact you have no idea about ANYTHING at all to do with this man or his dogs at all other than the fact he used the word "overstocking" in his adverts and that requires you to make summary judgement on that word alone and condemn him as someone who mistreats animals.

Discodog

vibe666 wrote: »

and there's another one. :rolleyes:
i'm not going to even waste my time re-typing the same thing because its just not worth the effort, so here it is from my previous post.

We are not just discussing this specific advert or the specific owner. It is perfectly reasonable for people to discuss the "working" dog issue. If you want to take part I am sure that your input is welcome.

I am not accusing the owner of starving their dog or neglecting some of it's needs. I am trying to explain that dogs have social requirements as well as physical. Now plenty here will ridicule this suggestion but the facts are that welfare laws, backed by research, are now recognising these needs in many other countries.

lrushe

Discodog wrote: »

There is this weird illusion that a dog bred for a "purpose" will only be happy if it continues the pursuit. So my Greyhound, who's passion is the fire, would really be happier out chasing Hares. It is utter rubbish. You can "condition" a dog to do practically anything.

I disagree with this to a degree. Try putting a GSD, Collie, Rottie etc. from working (herding, high level obedience, schutzhund) bloodlines into your average family home and you could be going down the road to diaster. Admittedly there will be some dogs who will fit into the 'pet' mould alot will not and must be homed to a working home as they would be 'too much dog' for the average handler, I've seen it first hand.

Dyr

And just for the record unless someone is making a living from hunting, a hunting dog is not a "working" dog.

Graces7

Bambi wrote: »

Ah sure 'tis a hunting dog, youse soft city folk wouldn't understand. Isnt it lucky he's selling it instead of just taking it out and shooting it for being no good to him? etc etc

This is quite the most ignorant post in a thread full of such.

Many of us are not city folk or soft; but we see animals as they are, not as some kind of .... commodity..Like baked beans or rifles.

Dogs are dogs; there is no difference in species between pets and what you call working dogs. They are genetically the same; their needs are the same; that phrase "working dog" is simply an excuse to deprive and neglect dogs.

IRELAND! What a place.

Discodog

Bambi wrote: »

And just for the record unless someone is making a living from hunting, a hunting dog is not a "working" dog.

Working Dog is a term used within show classification to mean a dog suitable by size, breeding, or training for useful work (as draft or herding) especially as distinguished from one suitable primarily for pet, show, or sporting use.

It doesn't mean that it has to earn money or that it's owner owns money from its use.

Galway K9

falabo wrote: »

it's a dog ... not a TV or christmas cards .... OVERSTOCKING ... omg

christmas cards.....classic!

Discodog

Galway K9 wrote: »

christmas cards.....classic!

Rather poignant as I have seen loads of Christmas puppies out with their new owners.

Galway K9

Personal threats not allowed.

Nozebleed

Graces7 wrote: »

This is quite the most ignorant post in a thread full of such.

Many of us are not city folk or soft; but we see animals as they are, not as some kind of .... commodity..Like baked beans or rifles.

Dogs are dogs; there is no difference in species between pets and what you call working dogs. They are genetically the same; their needs are the same; that phrase "working dog" is simply an excuse to deprive and neglect dogs.

IRELAND! What a place.

a dog does not have the same needs or desires as humans. you need to get a grip. a dog is an animal.

Galway K9

Discodog wrote: »

Rather poignant as I have seen loads of Christmas puppies out with their new owners.

I like the comparison Disco, the current situation isnt a lughing matter. Hoever im doing my part, ive 5 dogs in my house and only 1 is mine. I cant turn away when i see them on streets. I am screwed!

Nozebleed

Galway K9 wrote: »

Im not a violent person act very calm but its a good thing nozebleed is hiding behing an IP.

Hiding? yep. im hiding.

Galway K9

A dog is for life....at least we choose our dogs!

Dyr

Graces7 wrote: »

This is quite the most ignorant post in a thread full of such.

Many of us are not city folk or soft; but we see animals as they are, not as some kind of .... commodity..Like baked beans or rifles.

Dogs are dogs; there is no difference in species between pets and what you call working dogs. They are genetically the same; their needs are the same; that phrase "working dog" is simply an excuse to deprive and neglect dogs.

IRELAND! What a place.

deary me, slight irony deficiency there

Graces7

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

OP, these are dogs that have been bred and trained to do a very specific job. Their most baisic need is to be allowed to do this job and it's my firm belief that they could not possibly be happy otherwise. If this need they have cannot be met by the current owner for whatever reason they should absolutely be moved on to someone who can satisfy their needs. People who breed gun dogs like this (responsibly) have a much smaller pool to breed from than say show breeders so it is essential that they introduce new blood into their lines which often means training new dogs up before they can tell if they will be any good for breeding from, inevitably this means the experienced (and actually very valuable) older dogs have to be either sold on to someone else or retired which in my opinion is an abismal existance for a still young in relative terms working dog.

Having just read the first 2 pages of dogs for sale I am completely astounded that these are the ones you have singled out, they are the most genuine ads of the lot! A brief overview - hundreds of winter/non-registered puppies, made-up breeds, adolesent and young adults with no reason given for selling them and so on . . .

This is a total fallacy and one that degrades and misunderstands the nature of the dog; as does Sweeper.

A dog will adapt happily and easily; we have done this ourselves. Dogs need an owner; a person.

neil_hosey

this thread is one big joke... lol..

you should be able to sell a dog if you want, whether it be a hunting dog or not.

The OP's post is laughable, and some of the follow ups very cringy. I dont hunt, and i love dogs, but yous are crazy!!

All the people that i know who hunt when i was living down the country treated there dogs with the upmost respect and they were by far the happiest dogs ive ever seen because they were doing what they loved! i know of one that was sold to a friend of mine when it was 3, because one of the previous owners bitches had a litter and there wasnt room! Whats the big fcuking deal!!

Graces7

Bambi wrote: »

deary me, slight irony deficiency there

?? of course in Vietnam??

Galway K9

gone..........

Graces7

Nozebleed wrote: »

a dog does not have the same needs or desires as humans. you need to get a grip. a dog is an animal.

I have a very firm grip; you have totally misread my post of course. Must be blood loss affecting the brain? Try a transfusion?

Dogs are animals and have their own set of needs; they are not commodities to be treated as such.

Not human needs; dog needs.

EGAR

Argumentum ad hominem....

Nearly every thread in which posters are of different opinion you find one or two posters who try to turn it into the above, perhaps because they are not good at bringing their point across or perhaps it's because of a lack of reasoning in general.

Seth Brundle

Graces7 wrote: »

I have a very firm grip; you have totally misread my post of course. Must be blood loss affecting the brain? Try a transfusion?

Dogs are animals and have their own set of needs; they are not commodities to be treated as such.

Not human needs; dog needs.

Well then either pester your local TDs for a change in the law or stand for election and once in then change the law yourself.
Either way, until the law is changed, what is being done is completely legal. However, in the eyes of many this will still be a better solution to reducing dog numbers at one address given the alternatives.

vibe666

Discodog wrote: »

We are not just discussing this specific advert or the specific owner. It is perfectly reasonable for people to discuss the "working" dog issue. If you want to take part I am sure that your input is welcome.

that's exactly what this thread has been discussing for the last few pages until it was derailed by yourself and other posters. :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

Graces7 wrote: »

This is a total fallacy and one that degrades and misunderstands the nature of the dog; as does Sweeper.

A dog will adapt happily and easily; we have done this ourselves. Dogs need an owner; a person.

Graces7 you have replied to me in past threads also with the most random, seemingly degrading, insulting comments that make no apparant sence to me. I find it quite confusing, you have told me that by my desire to satisfy my own pets energy levels and break her boredom I was talking nonsence and humanising her, that dogs have no need of such rubbish as agility training, mental stimulation, toys or motivational training (eg reward based).

Working dogs have owners/handlers and generally a much better relationship with their human that the average pet, I spend quite a lot of time exercising working dogs so I should know! Can you please clarify with some reasons for your comments on my opinions in this and future threads rather than this: you are wrong and have no idea what your taking about attitude and then fail to answer again when I address these comments, thanks!

Cherry Blossom

vibe666 wrote: »

that's exactly what this thread has been discussing for the last few pages until it was derailed by yourself and other posters. :rolleyes:

Also if the person who posted these adverts is being used as an 'example' a lot of people here are running dangerously close to making false allegations on a person they know nothing about in relation to their dogs which they have no idea whatsoever of the conditions they are kept in.

Discodog

vibe666 wrote: »

that's exactly what this thread has been discussing for the last few pages until it was derailed by yourself and other posters. :rolleyes:

If you look back you will see that word like hunting dog, working dog, stud dog were used before I posted.

When we had all the grief with forum we discussed the situation. I thought that we pretty much agreed that we would treat every poster with respect & not ridicule.

If you don't agree with someone then at least offer up reasonable argument.

Nozebleed wrote: »

a dog does not have the same needs or desires as humans. you need to get a grip. a dog is an animal.

No one needs to get a grip. I haven't read anything that suggest that anyone views a dog as having the same needs as a human. But what people have suggested is that dogs have far greater needs that you & some other posters believe. Those posters have the right to voice their thoughts without being pilloried as have those who disagree.

Last night I was PM'd by a Mod. Both of us were of the view that this forum was doing much better. One of the main reasons for this is mutual respect which means that you don't attack someone because they disagree.

I also think that, apart from highlighting a few words, we should leave the bold type to the Mods. As per the agreement that we made last year we can use the feedback thread rather than derailing here.

Discodog

goat2 wrote: »

i think the animal welfare people should have a look at what is going on there, selling four yr old due to overstocking, does not add up

There is nothing illegal about overstocking, selling, killing or doing whatever you like to a dog provided it does not suffer.