guy selling dog please read content

EGAR

None, so .

shinikins

Looks like i've come late to the party here

OP while i can see where your coming from, at the end of the day this ad seems to be a hunter selling one of his working dogs, as many previous posters have already stated. I don't agree with the use of the word "overstock" but being in a position to meet many types of animal owners on a daily basis i would guess that the man see's the dog only as a working animal and not a pet. Many hunters who come into the practise i work for are the best animal owners, but they do not form emotional attachments to their dogs. The dogs get the best of care, food and medical attention-more so than your average house pet in many cases-these dogs work for a living and its in the interest of the owner to treat them well. Far better that he sell the dog on to someone who will look after their investment than come across this type of scene.

Nozebleed

EGAR wrote: »

None, so .

what i have to be run a rescue shelter to have an opinion now? this is how stupid this thread has become.

EGAR

I rest my case, Nozebleed.

I was posting from experience not opinion.

Nozebleed

EGAR wrote: »

I rest my case, Nozebleed.

I was posting from experience not opinion.

Dr. Dolittle :rolleyes:

Whispered

Ah come on - this can be an interesting, if we stick to the conversation.

vibe666

Nozebleed wrote: »

door to door salesman.

you run a rescue centre for door to door salesmen?

now if there was ever a case for taking your rescues out the back and shooting them i think we might have a winner here. :pac:

Discodog

Working dogs may be kept well when they are working but what happens when they are no longer of value as a working dog. A Greyhound that's winning may be treated like Royalty - it's what happens to the 10,000 that don't win. How about the Collie who attacks sheep or the retriever that won't retrieve ?.

Most responsible pet owners will keep their pet from cradle to grave. We don't give up on a dog because it is in old age. The working dog is often seen as useless once it can no longer perform its assigned task. A man bought an injured Collie into my Vet - I believe that he had accidentally run over it. After a bit of a battle the Vet was able to tell him that the dog had lived but that a leg had to be amputated. She pointed out that the long term prognosis was good. The farmer said that a three legged dog was no good to him - luckily it was rehomed.

To me an owner has an obligation for the welfare of his/her animals. If a horse is "unsuitable" then the owner has an obligation to find that animal a caring home. If the dog can no longer hunt then it deserves a caring retirement. Pet dog owners accept this so why should working dog owners be excluded.

A pet owner would be frowned upon if he went into the Vet & asked for his dog to be put down because it can't chase a ball any more. Yet the owner of a working dog can justify killing an animal on the basis that it's no good, it's too old or he has got a better one.

Rehoming working dogs can be a nightmare for rescues because, in many cases, you have a dog that has been kept outside, is not housetrained, & not socialised. Try rehoming an ex hunt Foxhound. Now why should the rescue, the rehomer & the dog all suffer because someone wanted to partake in sport or could not be bothered to keep their animal once it's working life is over ?.

Graces7

scudzilla wrote: »

Is there any actual need to post that you have reported a post?

The only thing that it could do is to antagonise the poster of the reported post.

I'd just report the post and leave it to the mod's, no need to rub anybody's noses in it.

What has this to do with you, please, except to add yet more hostility and derail the thread even more?

Time after time when I have responded to posts like that one I reported, I have been told by mods that I should not have responded in the thread but reported the post.

And it is more courteous to let the poster know that you have read her post than simply to seem to ignore it.

If it antagonises, that is not my fault in any way.

And I never rub anyone or any animal's nose in any mess.. PLEASE! REALLY! If it is taken like that, that says a great deal about the one who thinks like that. There was no mess; simply a differing perception and I was aghast that anyine was keeing tabs on imagined slights.

A public thread is not the place to tackle these issues.

Graces7

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I'm not the least bit antagonised , I would have at least as much reason to report the post I was replying too but don't feel the need to as I think it says more about the reporter than it does me.

er you just did WHICH is why I acted as I did to hopefully avoid this kind of thread distruption. Which others have less respect for sadly


This is the first post of mine that has been reported to my knowledge, I feel quite special to have made such an impact

Not so;)

It comes of not being able to accept different ideas and approaches simply as discodog says so cogently elsewhere.

BUT these conflicts really are not part of the thread and it is not appropriate this to reply in the thread; bad protocol and bad etiquette.

Over and OUT on this.

Discodog

Graces7 wrote: »

Not so;)

It comes of not being able to accept different ideas and approaches simply as discodog says so cogently elsewhere.

BUT these conflicts really are not part of the thread and it is not appropriate this to reply in the thread; bad protocol and bad etiquette.

Over and OUT on this.

We are going OT here & OTT but as my name is mentioned I am going to reply. I would never report one of AJ's posts because I do not believe that they are meant to offend. It is pretty clear that AJ supports animal welfare.

I have had & will continue to have disagreements with AJ - some more amusing that others . However if someone feels offended by your posts, as AJ did, then surely the first thing to do is apologise & state that you didn't intend causing offence. Now, as the How's our Driving thread is back on view, how about we continue any further discussion over there.

One of the reasons that animal welfare here is in such a mess is because those who care sometimes spend valuable time arguing with each other even though they often agree !.

lrushe

EGAR wrote: »

OT? Perhaps but I have to post about the hunting dog/breed. I am owned by 4 of them. Two Otterhounds, a Cocker and a Bassett Hound. None of them are *working*, none of them have behavioural problems because they are pets. Not every Collie herds, not every Cocker hunts and not every GSD guards.

Most working breeds can almost be divided into 2 sub categories ie. those bred to work and those bred for pets/showing, indeed this is the case for Springers who have a 'show' type and a 'working' field type.
Of course there can be a slight overlap in that some pups from a working bloodline litter don't have the drive for work and can be homed to an experienced pet home.
Most working breeds we own today as pets are a 'watered down' versions of what that breed was meant to be, most people couldn't handle a true (for want of a better word!) GSD, Labrador, Rottweiler, Doberman, Husky, Setter or Pointer.
Alot of breeds have been simply 'dumbed' down to adapt yet again to their changing human environment however those who still retain that high drive, working instinct don't make good pets for the average home imo.

Cherry Blossom

Graces7 wrote: »

Not so;)

It comes of not being able to accept different ideas and approaches simply as discodog says so cogently elsewhere.

BUT these conflicts really are not part of the thread and it is not appropriate this to reply in the thread; bad protocol and bad etiquette.

Over and OUT on this.

Er, no I did not report your post, and never have done The bold part there is exactly the impression I get from you. Time after time you tell me this is wrong, that is wrong but offer no explanation why or no alternative, you are not offering any different ideas or approaches so how can I possibly agree, disagree, accept, reject or consider them. You can't just jump into threads making offensive remarks about other peoples ideas while offering none of of your own and then accuse them of bad etiquette. :rolleyes: I'm repeating myself now though as this is just the reported post over it again but it looks like you just reported it and didn't bother to actually read it!

Cherry Blossom

Graces7 wrote: »

There was no mess; simply a differing perception and I was aghast that anyine was keeing tabs on imagined slights.

A public thread is not the place to tackle these issues.

No Grace, I am not keeping tabs in imagined slights, I mearly have a good memory and am often greatly confused by your posts, therefore I remember them.

liquoriceall

I dont have any problem someone selling on a working dog if they have no longer a need for them, however if you take on a working dog then its your responsibility until end of life, why people who shoot, hunt, keep greyhounds etc cant keep these dogs afterwards I dont know? It doesnt cost that much to feed and walk a dog. EGAR I too have a basset he is from a working strain but I live in the city, so I take him to open countryside once a week and he has a ball. I dont believe a dog needs to hunt but he needs to have his needs fulfilled but most people seem to think leaving a dog on its own outside is acceptable

cucoigcrice

Dogs are dogs; there is no difference in species between pets and what you call working dogs. They are genetically the same; their needs are the same; that phrase "working dog" is simply an excuse to deprive and neglect dogs.

IRELAND! What a place.

I myself will be collecting a pup soon which will be a hunting labrador with myself and OH. All apples in the barrell are not bad, i.e you can not say that all working/hunting dogs are neglected. There are alot of ordinary people out there that neglect pet dogs and little is said about it. But because dogs are used for hunting this automatically means they are neglected!!
My pup will be far from neglected she will have the best of everythin and I intend to post pictures of here as she grows just to prove a few points now. Labradors and may other breeds are breed for hunting and have the natural insitinct, so i intend to let them use it!!

Cherry Blossom

cucoigcrice wrote: »

I myself will be collecting a pup soon which will be a hunting labrador with myself and OH. All apples in the barrell are not bad, i.e you can not say that all working/hunting dogs are neglected. There are alot of ordinary people out there that neglect pet dogs and little is said about it. But because dogs are used for hunting this automatically means they are neglected!!
My pup will be far from neglected she will have the best of everythin and I intend to post pictures of here as she grows just to prove a few points now. Labradors and may other breeds are breed for hunting and have the natural insitinct, so i intend to let them use it!!

I wish you the best of luck with your pup but I have to force the point that existing animals you have should always be your primary concern, whether they are dogs or rabbits is irrelevant

cucoigcrice

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I wish you the best of luck with your pup but I have to force the point that existing animals you have should always be your primary concern, whether they are dogs or rabbits is irrelevant

Yes i am well aware and thanks for the dig!!
My rabbitt which i saved from being PTS unfortunately can not come with me as i move home, as it would not be fair on here, as i previously explained!! When I saved her i did not know that my situation would change.
Primary concern is getting my rabbitt a new loving home where she will be looked after just as well as she is with me.
If i could take her with me believe me i would in a shot, but unfortuantely the economy have left me with no other choice.
P.S the pup will be living with my OH just incase a dig is made that i can take a dog but not a rabbitt!!:(

EGAR

lrushe wrote: »

Most working breeds can almost be divided into 2 sub categories ie. those bred to work and those bred for pets/showing, indeed this is the case for Springers who have a 'show' type and a 'working' field type.
Of course there can be a slight overlap in that some pups from a working bloodline litter don't have the drive for work and can be homed to an experienced pet home.
Most working breeds we own today as pets are a 'watered down' versions of what that breed was meant to be, most people couldn't handle a true (for want of a better word!) GSD, Labrador, Rottweiler, Doberman, Husky, Setter or Pointer.
Alot of breeds have been simply 'dumbed' down to adapt yet again to their changing human environment however those who still retain that high drive, working instinct don't make good pets for the average home imo.

My Otterhounds are working strain (mink pack UK)
The Cocker is working strain not show.

And the Bassett is Couch Potatoe strain.

Cherry Blossom

cucoigcrice wrote: »

Yes i am well aware and thanks for the dig!!
My rabbitt which i saved from being PTS unfortunately can not come with me as i move home, as it would not be fair on here, as i previously explained!! When I saved her i did not know that my situation would change.
Primary concern is getting my rabbitt a new loving home where she will be looked after just as well as she is with me.
If i could take her with me believe me i would in a shot, but unfortuantely the economy have left me with no other choice.
P.S the pup will be living with my OH just incase a dig is made that i can take a dog but not a rabbitt!!:(

That is fine, it wasn't supposed to be a dig, I was curious as to how you could be moving to a house that can't have a rabbit but can have a dog as your post here gave the impression that it is actually your prospective dog that you were talking about.

cucoigcrice

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

That is fine, it wasn't supposed to be a dig, I was curious as to how you could be moving to a house that can't have a rabbit but can have a dog as your post here gave the impression that it is actually your prospective dog that you were talking about.

Well she will be my as well as my OH but unfortunatley we dont live together i have to down size and unfortunately that means not having a garden.

Discodog

There is a world of difference between the Lab or Spaniel that lives at home as a Pet & works each week to a working dog that is kennelled with no real human companionship except when it works.

A friend of mine in Wales has had championship winning trial sheepdogs. They always live in the house - usually by the Aga & are kept for life. They are family pets as well as workers.

lrushe

EGAR wrote: »

My Otterhounds are working strain (mink pack UK)
The Cocker is working strain not show.

And the Bassett is Couch Potatoe strain.

Thye sound lovely and you are an experienced dog owner with plenty of countryside at your disposal which is a plus for your dogs, the same type of dog in a built up terraced housing estate might find it more difficult to adjust to the pet role.
Growing up my Dad bred and trained GSD's for security with a handler, they came from Schutzhund bloodlines and would be too much dog for the average household, far different from the GSD I showed later on in life.

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

There is a world of difference between the Lab or Spaniel that lives at home as a Pet & works each week to a working dog that is kennelled with no real human companionship except when it works.

Most working dogs will have good human contact on a daily basis. I say most because there are always a few bad apples, just as there are "pet owners" who have dogs but are left in a back yard or chained to a kennel with very little to no contact.

My last working pair were as much part of the family and lived out a long life, the pup I have now has the run of the house,and can be found up in bed for an evening snooze but knows as soon as the whistles goes around my neck it is time for him to have some real fun and he really becomes a different dog.

Galway K9

cucoigcrice wrote: »

Dogs are dogs; there is no difference in species between pets and what you call working dogs. They are genetically the same; their needs are the same; that phrase "working dog" is simply an excuse to deprive and neglect dogs.

IRELAND! What a place.

I myself will be collecting a pup soon which will be a hunting labrador with myself and OH. All apples in the barrell are not bad, i.e you can not say that all working/hunting dogs are neglected. There are alot of ordinary people out there that neglect pet dogs and little is said about it. But because dogs are used for hunting this automatically means they are neglected!!
My pup will be far from neglected she will have the best of everythin and I intend to post pictures of here as she grows just to prove a few points now. Labradors and may other breeds are breed for hunting and have the natural insitinct, so i intend to let them use it!!

Actually on this point, they arent genetically the same (good breeder) as working dogs are bred for hard / balanced temperments for stronger character and specialised traits. All survival needs are same yes.

irishgrover

jesus, I hope ye all treat your dogs better then ye are treating each other in this thread :eek:

iguana

vibe666 wrote: »

do you think that this guy would be able to sell these two dogs (on the ad's on the first page of the thread) for €600 & €300 if they weren't well cared for & well trained specialised hunting animals?

i'm not an expert by any means, but it seems to me that the only way he is going to get anything close to that kind of money for them is if they have been well looked after.

Ime, there is often a pretty big disparity between an asking price and a price someone will be willing to pay. A quick browse of myhome.ie will ram that home. He may well be able to get such a price, I have no idea, but I wouldn't be taking his asking price as an indicator of anything to do with the dog's welfare.

Whispered wrote: »

He could indeed be using the term due to a good breeding season, but then I'd have problems with someone breeding excessively too. I understand people breeding from good dogs to create good dogs, but breeding to the point of "overstocking" is not responsible breeding.

I was wondering if, due to the age of the dogs, they had been studs as well as hunters and their owner feels it would be best to move them to a new home to prevent inbreeding. I've always gotten the impression that people breeding good working stock will seek to avoid inbreeding as they are trying to ensure smart healthy puppies rather than those with consistent aesthetic traits.

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I'm quite sure that your individual dogs needs are met in other ways even though they are not 'worked'. My frame of mind on the subject is, for example if I were to acquire a huskey I wouldn't be running off to iceland so it can be a sledge dog but I would most definately try scootering or cycling with it.

OT, but I have working strain springers who live as pets and one of our ways of "working" them is to play "find the prize" where I put some treats in a box and hide it in the house or garden. They then have to sniff it out and once they find it, sit and indicate to me that they have found it and wait for me to come and give them the treat. It exercises their talents and their restraint skills, they get ridiculously excited while playing it, it's like something switches on inside them that they need to experience. They also need shed loads of intense exercise and playtime. Once they have their physical and mental needs met they are relaxed, chilled out dogs who'll happily sleep for the vast majority of the day. An awful lot of people think springers are stupid dogs when they are known to be of very high intelligence. Imo, this is because way, way too many of them go slightly crazy due to frustration from inadequate exercise and mental stimulation.

Einstein

doubleglaze wrote: »

The problem is that:

A DOG IS FOR LIFE

(bar very exceptional circumstances, such as death/paralysis etc. of the owner.)



Can people not just get that into their skulls?

Would you prefer if he kept the dogs and they had a bad lifestyle, possibly underfed and given no exercise?

Or that he sells them and gives them to a home that will do all of the above?

Seriously...me thinks you needs to relax a little...

Whispered

iguana wrote: »

OT, but I have working strain springers who live as pets and one of our ways of "working" them is to play "find the prize" where I put some treats in a box and hide it in the house or garden. They then have to sniff it out and once they find it, sit and indicate to me that they have found it and wait for me to come and give them the treat. .

Would you be able to tell me the steps you took to train them to do this. I'd like to do something similar.

iguana

Whispered wrote: »

Would you be able to tell me the steps you took to train them to do this. I'd like to do something similar.

To start with we always had a rule that they must sit before they get a treat, no jumping up or begging. Once that came naturally we worked on putting the treat in front of them but not letting them have it until they looked up at us and were told to "go on" or given the proper hand signal.

When we started playing the treat finding game I decided to put the treat in a box because I didn't want to foster competition between them which would happen if they were just free to eat the treats as soon as they found it. I get them to sit in front of me in one room, show them the treats and put them in the box as they watch. Then I tell them stay and leave the room with the box (if they try to follow I just walk them back to where I left them, letting them see the box all the while). Then I'd hide the box in the room (I started with stronger smelling treats not well hidden so they would find them easily) and call them to start looking for it, all the while saying "find the prize - find the prize" so they would learn the command. As the treats were in a box, the dogs couldn't open it so at first they'd turn it over and nudge and paw at it, while I would stand over them waiting. Once they realised they couldn't open it themselves they would sit and look up at me to "ask" me to get it for them. I gave them the treat and lots of praise and then we would play again a few times so they would be able to remember it easily. After a while they started automatically sitting once they found the box as they know that's the fastest way to get at what's inside, or if I'm not standing over them, they bring it to me and leave it at my feet and sit.