English

Yahooaccount

I was just wondering if you copied an essay from a revision book for Hamlet and reproduced it in the exam and the examiner can see where you got the essay from, can they take marks off you or is that allowed?
Thanks.

Chris Martin

If is a decent answer I can't see why not,
Woud probably be favourable to personalise it a bit though, give your personal views on a few of the characters, throw in a few extra quotes, essentially then you're making the answer yours so yes, can't deducts marks for that, so long as it's relevant to the question asked.

partyatmygaff

You can't do that. If they find that you've plagiarised an answer they won't give you any marks for it.

Chris Martin

But how will they know if you've played around with it a bit,
If you make it your own and use relevent point,
Nothing against using information thats there like if it's correct and relevent, obviously not word for word like but able to use information from sample answer, otherwise why have it..
In some topics certain points and things you can say are limited to everyone is going to say pretty much the same thing,
Its quite hard to spot plagiarism under these circumstances,
My advice is to watch out and personalise as much as possible..

mulner92

Don't see the big deal. I got the key notes book last year copied and learnt points from each of my chosen poets and it worked well, got a grade i never thought i was capable of.

Benicetomonty

They won't do you for plagiarism in the Leaving Cert; the exam is practically insisting upon it, especially when it comes to Shakespeare!

What will happen however is that you, like a majority of people, will find it very difficult to reproduce, word for word, a 4-6 page essay, and when you have to fill in the gaps with your own writing, it will stand out like a sore thumb to the examiner. As a result, you may potentially lose marks in the 'clarity' section, since there will be a probable depreciation in quality between your work and that of the professional (A) English teacher or (in some cases!) (B) professional writer whose notes you've learned off.

Junior D

Well for Paper 1, I learned off an article from Irish Examiner about the 2009 All-Ireland hurling final word-for-word. Got 94% for it. Same as someone else above, I got the key notes book and learned stuff from it word-for-word as well. I got an A in the leavin so what I'm sayin is I learned everythin off by heart English and I was ok

Wolfe Tone

Junior D wrote: »

Well for Paper 1, I learned off an article from Irish Examiner about the 2009 All-Ireland hurling final word-for-word. Got 94% for it. Same as someone else above, I got the key notes book and learned stuff from it word-for-word as well. I got an A in the leavin so what I'm sayin is I learned everythin off by heart English and I was ok

No, YOU didn't get an A.

gaeilgegrinds1

Personalise it and the learn. End of. I don't advocate that usually but have seen people without a real flair for English getting the same grade in it as those with a real clue!

Benicetomonty

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

Personalise it and the learn. End of. I don't advocate that usually but have seen people without a real flair for English getting the same grade in it as those with a real clue!

+1. I'm an English teacher and I can spot when somebody has relied completely on regurgitating notes in exam circumstances; it can't be done 100% and your own writing and ability is made to look inferior (unfairly) by comparison. A diligent examiner would dock marks because the overall flow of the essay has been upset. Having said that, if you are good at memorising large chunks of notes, it will easily get you an honour. As I've alluded to, plagiarism is not a factor in itself for Leaving Cert English.

Study the notes, personalise them, express the points in your own words and, as much as possible, quote only from the main texts or poems you're working with.

Junior D

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

No, YOU didn't get an A.

Ha how do you know??? Do you know me??? Don't think so, I got an A2.

Wolfe Tone

Junior D wrote: »

Ha how do you know??? Do you know me??? Don't think so, I got an A2.

That made me laugh. Re read what I said and think about it.

Junior D

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

That made me laugh. Re read what I said and think about it.

Ha sorry, forgive me, read in the wrong context

UnLuckyAgain

You would absolutely need to be careful, not just from plagiarism aspect but also because the rest of your answers would look mediocre compared to the published answer that you reemed off.

If all of your answers are at the same standard (similarly structured, intelligently discussed etc), the examiner will clearly see that you have clarity and fluidity of thought, and will reward you accordingly.
However, if your Hamlet essay is a spectacular read, and the examiner turns the page to your poetry essay for example, which is clearly of a different standard, alarm bells will surely be ringing.

aranciata

Although I think it's wrong and completely unmoral, you're not going to get caught for plagiarism. A lot of these people like to know what they're talking about here but they don't, they assume things. No examiner is going to google a line from your essay, no examiner is going to recognise your essay from a local obscure short story competition. There's little difference plagiarising an english essay than there is plagiarising an answer to a geography question, or an irish debate from a revision book.

As long as you aren't caught plagiarising from another student IN THE EXAM CENTER, or from notes or pages IN THE EXAM CENTER, there is literally nothing that can be done to dock you full marks. I imagine that if an examiner suspects something, they mark harder, but hey, there's absolutely no way of knowing if someone has plagiarised something, or it being by coincidence.

spurious

All the above is very risky. The SEC are well aware of the amount of learning off and spewing that goes on and will adjust questions to suit.

If you're doing HL LC English and can't write an answer on your own, you're not HL LC English standard.

spurious

aranciata wrote: »

Although I think it's wrong and completely unmoral, you're not going to get caught for plagiarism. A lot of these people like to know what they're talking about here but they don't, they assume things. No examiner is going to google a line from your essay, no examiner is going to recognise your essay from a local obscure short story competition. There's little difference plagiarising an english essay than there is plagiarising an answer to a geography question, or an irish debate from a revision book.

As long as you aren't caught plagiarising from another student IN THE EXAM CENTER, or from notes or pages IN THE EXAM CENTER, there is literally nothing that can be done to dock you full marks. I imagine that if an examiner suspects something, they mark harder, but hey, there's absolutely no way of knowing if someone has plagiarised something, or it being by coincidence.

What an interesting first 3 posts.

The fact is candidates can and have had marks deducted because of it.

aranciata

Do you know which Chief Examiner's Reports that appeared in? Articles? Testimonies? Reports?

I'd really love to look it at it. It sure would be nice to have some concrete evidence around here, for once.

aranciata

And since you're counting, that was four. This is five.

Chris Martin

spurious wrote: »

What an interesting first 3 posts.

The fact is candidates can and have had marks deducted because of it.

Want to be unlucky though,
Not saying I'll plagiarize,
Can't memorize so can't plagiarize..
Double ended sword.
Say its been done and majority don't get caught..
Rather they did though, making it tougher for me otherwise..

UnLuckyAgain

aranciata wrote: »

No examiner is going to google a line from your essay, no examiner is going to recognise your essay from a local obscure short story competition.

Why wouldn't they? If there's any doubt, its so easy to see if the student's work is indeed personal and original. The whole system is about understanding English techniques/tools of analysis and being able to apply them to a piece of literature.

Plagiarism simply displays one's ability to copy.

Chris Martin

aranciata wrote: »

Do you know which Chief Examiner's Reports that appeared in? Articles? Testimonies? Reports?

I'd really love to look it at it. It sure would be nice to have some concrete evidence around here, for once.

Tough on a site used and run by the public,
Like trying to find truth on Wikipedia..

aranciata

Chris Martin wrote: »

Tough on a site used and run by the public,
Like trying to find truth on Wikipedia..

The man said it was a fact, and he must be serious because.. o! god, he underlined it! The horror!

aranciata

It seems of the utmost importance that I update everyone. Yes, that was my sixth post. Indeed this is my seventh post. Spurious, it's nice to know you are looking out for me.

Your pal,
Aranciata

spurious

aranciata wrote: »

It seems of the utmost importance that I update everyone. Yes, that was my sixth post. Indeed this is my seventh post. Spurious, it's nice to know you are looking out for me.

Your pal,
Aranciata

Here's an update.
Have a 7 day break.

randylonghorn

aranciata wrote: »

The man said it was a fact, and he must be serious because.. o! god, he underlined it! The horror!

"The man" is a woman, a teacher and an experienced examiner.

You need to cop yourself on, and yes, I am serious about that.

GoldFour4

randylonghorn wrote: »

"The man" is a woman, a teacher and an experienced examiner.

You need to cop yourself on, and yes, I am serious about that.

He might understand it better if you underlined it !! jk:D

Coeurdepirate

aranciata wrote: »

Do you know which Chief Examiner's Reports that appeared in? Articles? Testimonies? Reports?

I'd really love to look it at it. It sure would be nice to have some concrete evidence around here, for once.

Chill the fúck out, you've been here one day and yet you know enough about the site to say that there isn't usually concrete evidence.

PictureFrame

To be honest I doubt the examiners are going to have EVERY revision book and English book available flicking through them in order to see has it been copied. At the end of the day the correctors just want to correct them, send them off and go and enjoy their holidays. Just copy it and change it around slightly ie. your own quotes, references etc. The correctors will neither notice OR care enough to check it in my opinion.

Saying this i'm only in 5th year and have no idea how the SEC works! :L

Chris Martin

Odd person to challenge...
Mod of FETAC/PLC, Teaching & Lecturing and the entirety of Edu.
One thing disagreeing but Jesus.

And all in all imo,
Learning answers off is actually taking away from the whole concept of English.
I know people who have beaten me in tests that I know I have a better English than.
In the exam, chances are I'm going to construct an answer from scratch, but it will be mine. Avoiding all risks of plagiarism and I'll know my information so it will be a decent answer.
One of few it will seem, to do the English exam as it is intended to be done.
Perhaps I'll get bonus marks for it

PictureFrame

:O, and moving swiftly on..
I'm in 5th year and would really really love an A in English. Every essay I give up gets a different grade each time. The level of variation in my English grades is surreal. I got 77% (B2) in my christmas test. So far we've done 2 poets (Kavanagh & Plath), Act I-3 Hamlet then comprehensions and general Exam paper questions. Does anyone have any tips on how to improve my English grades slightly?. Thanks.