Contracts and 'auto-renewal'

tails_naf

This might do well on the consumer issues board, but I said I would try here.

I switched to an iphone from O2 2 years ago, and was locked in to an 18 month contract.

About a year in, I upped my plan to give me more minutes (was building a house, making lots of calls).

When I recently called up to switch away from O2, I was told I was still in contract, and would be until april. They said that when I changed my minutes, I was auto-locked in to a new 18 month contract.

So no only can I not leave, this also means I have to keep paying the higher bill until april, as if I try reduce my minutes (house built, no longer need them), I'll be extended again!

Is this auto-extension legal? Or am I within my rights to cancel the contract as I have completed the initial 18 months.

Would love to know where I really stand on this.

Mad_Mike

This is fairly standard practice in the mobile industry
As a matter of interest, what plan did you move up to?
Up until recently, after 6 months, you could drop back to a cheaper plan, but its kinda messy with iPhone, as you can only drop to a plan within the same group, so if for example you were on Advance 150, moved up to the next level, then technically if moving down, you can only drop back to the 150 tariff again and not a regular cheaper tariff.

Mad_Mike

Hmmmm. Actually, I'm looking at the T&C's and it would appear that if you UP your plan(which you did), it should NOT affect the term of your contract

Davy

Moved from mobiles to CI, more suited here

padocon

Mad_Mike wrote: »

...after 6 months, you could drop back to a cheaper plan...

Is this with o2 only?

Mad_Mike

I think so
I remember looking on other sites also and from memory they didnt have that clause
In actual fact, I have a funny feeling you can no longer do it on O2 since about Sep/Oct

tails_naf

Mad_Mike wrote: »

Hmmmm. Actually, I'm looking at the T&C's and it would appear that if you UP your plan(which you did), it should NOT affect the term of your contract

This sounds very interesting - you are correct that I did UP my plan, and i fairness I don't recall being told at the time that it would mean a contract extension.

Can you provide a link to the T&Cs so I can refer to that that when I give O2 a call about this?

Mad_Mike

http://www.o2online.ie/o2/uploads/pdfs/terms/consumer/O2AdvanceSmartphonePricePlanRulesOct2010.pdf

Have a look on the right hand side where it says "Changing Price Plans"

Mad_Mike

Its actually a bit complex depending on what tariff you were on then, and what you are on now etc

If you go to the T&C's page, you can choose Archive on the left for older contracts and see whats applicable to yourself
http://www.o2online.ie/o2/legal/consumer/

tails_naf

Thanks a lot for that Mad Mike, I checked the links, they were a big help!

The first link clearly says that I should have been able to change plans without incurring any extension, if I was on an O2 advance plan to begin with.

the problem is, I don't actually know what the 'plan name' is. My o2 account doesn't mention it (not that I could find anyway). All I know is it was the 175 minute plan when I first got the phone and I changed it to a 350 minute plan.

The second link you gave is the archived plan information. This document:
http://www.o2online.ie/o2/uploads/pdfs/terms/archive/O2-Advance-Price-Plan-Rules-July2010.pdf

mentions changing plans, but it does not say if the contract term will be extended automatically in all cases, it only says that if I have unlimited mobile data the term is extended - which seems to suggest if I don't have unlimited data my contract term should not have been updated?

As I don't have unlimited data, it sounds to me like they had no right to claim that my contract had been automatically extended.

I have heard similar stories by o2, and other mobile operators, where they try their best to lock you in to a new contract, but surely in this case, it would be fraud on their part to tell me I was locked in, when I should not be. Can anyone comment on the legality of this?

tails_naf

From a bit of googling, it looks like the plan I had at the start was called the 'O2 Advance 175 plan' - this was 175 mins for 45 euro, which matches what I had.

This link:
http://www.o2online.ie/wps/wcm/connect/O2/About+O2/Terms+and+Conditions/Old+Pay+Monthly+terms/O2+Advance+Tariff+terms

mentions no auto-extension of the contract term under the changing plans section, so I think I may have a case here.

RangeR

When you upped your minutes or whatever, did they mention, over the phone, that your contract would be extended too?

Request a recording of the call. As far as I know, it is a legal requirement to keep a copy of ALL contracts. If they cannot produce a call recording or signed contract, then there is no contract.

They will try to delay this as long as possible. Be calm but firm. If they cannot produce the contract or call recording, threaten Small Claims Court but be prepared to follow through. Will only cost you €15 and can be filed online.

I'm not a legal expert but this is the road I would go down.

Nonoperational

O2 started doing this a while ago. Apparantly others do it too but it's very bad form I think.

Garth

RangR's advice is the best advice. As far as I'm aware, none of the other networks involve themselves in this sharp practice. It's too bad too, because O2 are otherwise a very good company to be with.

RangeR

Any update on this? Would be interested in what O2 say when the recording is requested.

jor el

Garth wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, none of the other networks involve themselves in this sharp practice.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that all telecos will renew your contract period when you change anything about it. You'd need to consult the terms of your particular contract though, as it may vary from product to product, even with the same operator.

RangeR's advice is the best course of action, but if the contract renewal is mentioned in the T&Cs, and you have been using the service, then use of the service could be construed as acceptance of the T&Cs in full, even if they don't have the recording or a signed contract. Now, you are free to fight this, or bring it to a court of law if you so desire, but you should know that it's rarely as clear cut as you'd like. Even if the provider knows they would lose a court case, it doesn't mean they won't fight, or that they'd let you out of the contract.

Worth a shot anyway.

Guy:Incognito

jor el wrote: »

Actually, I'm pretty sure that all telecos will renew your contract period when you change anything about it. You'd need to consult the terms of your particular contract though, as it may vary from product to product, even with the same operator. .

I've never had Vodafone do it to me. We have 4 or 5 accounts in the family, all of which have moved up or down, some multiple times in a year without any penalty.

jor el

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I've never had Vodafone do it to me. We have 4 or 5 accounts in the family, all of which have moved up or down, some multiple times in a year without any penalty.

They will often let you move down as well as up, and O2 are letting the OP move down too, but each time you move, your contract restarts. I think that's what the OP was getting at too, if he changes down now, his contract restarts at 18 months again, when he actually only has 4 months left now. If you're not changing operator, then it won't matter, but if you're looking to change or cancel all together, then it will.

The T&Cs of his particular contract may not have held him to a new minimum term at the last change though.

drunkmonkey

The other networks don't do it, it's only o2. It's a dirty rotten practice and if comreg had half a ball they'd take them to the cleaners about it.

It's Anti Consumer and Anti Competitive.

Guy:Incognito

jor el wrote: »

They will often let you move down as well as up, and O2 are letting the OP move down too, but each time you move, your contract restarts. .

Thats what I meant. Our contracts have never been extended and we have never had issues getting upgrades after 12 months either(though some of us are now on 18 month iphone contracts).

Guy:Incognito

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The other networks don't do it, it's only o2. It's a dirty rotten practice and if comreg had half a ball they'd take them to the cleaners about it.

It's Anti Consumer and Anti Competitive.

If it's in th eT&c's then it's the customers own issue imo. People have been floating through sales signing anythign stuck under their noses without question for years. No one to blame when it doesnt suit them but themselves.

drunkmonkey

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If it's in th eT&c's then it's the customers own issue imo. People have been floating through sales signing anythign stuck under their noses without question for years. No one to blame when it doesnt suit them but themselves.

It wasn't in the T's & C's, did you read the OP's post, he was scammed like thousands of other people.

o2's technique is the dirtiest practice out there, I know loads of people who were caught like this, all now counting down the days until they leave as they feel they were truly scammed by a company they trusted.