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RIRA make new years statement- Threaten to "expand its campaign in 2011"
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Do you know how many people consider themselves British in Northern Ireland and will not just sit back and watch these people try to blow everyone away? The British flag will fly high and they can't accept it. A war on the state is a war on the loyalist people as far as im concerned.
sounds like you are using the rira campaign as an argument for loyalist violence , peace does not fit well with loyalists it seems ?0 -
Loyalist violence? No. The RIRA campaign is an attack on the state and everything British. Iv already posted a link to a supporter on the Stephen Nolan show and she said pretty much the same thing.sounds like you are using the rira campaign as an argument for loyalist violence , peace does not fit well with loyalists it seems ?0 -
sounds like you are using the rira campaign as an argument for loyalist violence , peace does not fit well with loyalists it seems ?
This is what happens to republicans talking about the IRA. Discuss objectively and you get accused of supporting them.
Now its happening to a unionist poster. Predicting loyalist violence is not the same as supporting it.0 -
Keith, i've gone through a lot of your recent posts. As far as I can see you are a loyalist masking as a Unionist. You do indeed keep bringing up Republican instances of what they have done. However I feel that you like many on both sides of the fence, can't agree to the new and I feel better North. Many people on both sides me included have come out of the trenches and embraced what is now a better North. However people like yourself who are still in the trenches keep digging and digging thus living in a bubble.
While not everyone can come to terms with the changes straight away I agree some can't nor won't make that change. This is on both sides and I think you are one of those people. When our kids and the next genereation come along hopefully it'll be a lot lot better place to live.0 -
Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »This is what happens to republicans talking about the IRA. Discuss objectively and you get accused of supporting them.
Now its happening to a unionist poster. Predicting loyalist violence is not the same as supporting it.
of course when dr paisley and his supporters were marching up hills in uniform and waving their gun permits in the air they were not actually supporting violence either !0 -
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How many times does it need to be said? A loyalist loyal to the crown and Union. Im a Unionist as a supporter of the union.:)cardwizzard wrote: »Keith, i've gone through a lot of your recent posts. As far as I can see you are a loyalist masking as a Unionist. You do indeed keep bringing up Republican instances of what they have done. However I feel that you like many on both sides of the fence, can't agree to the new and I feel better North. Many people on both sides me included have come out of the trenches and embraced what is now a better North. However people like yourself who are still in the trenches keep digging and digging thus living in a bubble.
While not everyone can come to terms with the changes straight away I agree some can't nor won't make that change. This is on both sides and I think you are one of those people. When our kids and the next genereation come along hopefully it'll be a lot lot better place to live.0 -
of course when dr paisley and his supporters were marching up hills in uniform and waving their gun permits in the air they were not actually supporting violence either !
How is waving a gun licence wearing a uniform not supporting violence? Not exactly a great comparison to posting on a message board.0 -
Avoiding what I said. I called you a loyalist as in you support LVF UVF UDA or what ever branch you want. And I believe you do. Hence a loyalist and that's different from a Unionist. Republican and Nationalist are very different also.0
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What? I don't support any of them.cardwizzard wrote: »Avoiding what I said. I called you a loyalist as in you support LVF UVF UDA or what ever branch you want. And I believe you do. Hence a loyalist and that's different from a Unionist. Republican and Nationalist are very different also.0 -
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Just out of curioisity( spelling mistake). Did you vote for or against the GFA?0
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Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »How is waving a gun licence wearing a uniform not supporting violence? Not exactly a great comparison to posting on a message board.
of course it was supporting violence but it was couched in a way as to not seem so , a threat without a threat
so therefor i take posts like this as been of similar vein
people consider themselves British in Northern Ireland and will not just sit back and watch these people try to blow everyone away
if there is a call over Ulster to join say the UVF or UDA etc, you are going to get people who will join such ranks
it all smacks to me of , ''ulster will fight and ulster will be right ''0 -
Do you know how many people consider themselves British in Northern Ireland
No. go on then - why don't you inform me? how many?and will not just sit back and watch these people try to blow everyone away?
Well this gets right back to the "reasons " I mentioned.
If Ireland is united as one single jurisdiction RIRA have no reason at all to "blow people away"
But you seem to immediatly hop onto the Loyalist reasons for existing i.e. to fight against the IRA. Given the IRA would not exist what is the reason for people not just "sitting back"?The British flag will fly high and they can't accept it.
Im sure that could be arranged. I'm sure if the RIRA were approached and told that you would agree to a united Ireland if you were allowed to fly the British flag where you want then they would be happy to assent.A war on the state is a war on the loyalist people as far as im concerned.
It is a "war" against the Republic of Ireland as well. don't forget that when Irish people were asked to take up arms for the British Army that more of them who did so were Nationalists than Loyalists. So if Loyalists were the ones defending the State how come there were more nationalists volunteering and dying for the British Army? These are the people referred to by republicans as "on another man's wounds".0 -
Thousands upon thousands of people in Ulster consider themselves British.No. go on then - why don't you inform me? how many?
What reasons? The RIRA know the situation in Northern Ireland at the moment, they know about the GFA, they know about the majority being from a Unionist background, they know this violence will not work.Well this gets right back to the "reasons " I mentioned.
If Ireland is united as one single jurisdiction RIRA have no reason at all to "blow people away"
But you seem to immediatly hop onto the Loyalist reasons for existing i.e. to fight against the IRA. Given the IRA would not exist what is the reason for people not just "sitting back"?
Either they are doing it because they have nothing better to do or they are looking for jobs in stormont. I think its important they don't get what they want.
Would they f*ck. The RIRA accepting the flying of the British flag? Don't make me laugh. Did you listen to the caller in that link I posted in this thread? That is the RIRA mentality, that is the mentality of the people who support the RIRA.Im sure that could be arranged. I'm sure if the RIRA were approached and told that you would agree to a united Ireland if you were allowed to fly the British flag where you want then they would be happy to assent.
The British army recruited all over the island. There has always been more republican nationalists than Unionists.It is a "war" against the Republic of Ireland as well. don't forget that when Irish people were asked to take up arms for the British Army that more of them who did so were Nationalists than Loyalists. So if Loyalists were the ones defending the State how come there were more nationalists volunteering and dying for the British Army? These are the people referred to by republicans as "on another man's wounds".0 -
Either they are doing it because they have nothing better to do or they are looking for jobs in stormont.
See what I mean about living in the past my friend?0 -
Are you kidding? There is very little reasons for their carry on with the political situation as it is at the moment. So you can only question why they do it? I would not write them off with them looking for jobs in stormont.cardwizzard wrote: »Either they are doing it because they have nothing better to do or they are looking for jobs in stormont.
See what I mean about living in the past my friend?0 -
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Well they would call themselves the true Irish but they are fighting against the state of N.I.0
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Thousands upon thousands of people in Ulster consider themselves British.
How many thousand? How many thousand have British passports or travel to Great Britian more then one a year not on business? Or have you any other indicator? And of them how many support violence should there be a county Ireland?What reasons? The RIRA know the situation in Northern Ireland at the moment, they know about the GFA, they know about the majority being from a Unionist background, they know this violence will not work.
Would you not think they believe it will achieve something? Why else would they do it?Either they are doing it because they have nothing better to do
That is a rather slly comment. "
Mr A :I'm bored
Mr B: Let's go for a walk or play hurling
Mr A: Nah lets take up planning a bombing campaign because we have nothing better to do.or they are looking for jobs in stormont.
Couldn't be that since they don't Recognise Stormont!I think its important they don't get what they want.
Which again betrays your reactionary mindset i.e. that Loyalists are motivated by doing the opposite or countering of whatever Republicans say.Would they f*ck. The RIRA accepting the flying of the British flag? Don't make me laugh.
I am sure that if Loyalists/Unionists agreed to meet the RIRA and agreed to sign up and vote for a 32 county Ireland with the proviso that they could wear and fly British flags wherever they wanted that the RIRA would agree to a total permanent end of any campaign.The British army recruited all over the island. There has always been more republican nationalists than Unionists.
But that isn't at issue. The point you raised was about Loyalists under threath from nationalists defending the Union. But as it happens more nationalists (who you view as opposed to the union and an enemy to be attacked ) actually voluntarily signed up.
It does raise another issue however. If there was always a majority why is it justified to take one region where the nationalists have a minority and make that part of the UK?0 -
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What sort of logic is that? You have to travel to Britain to be British? Nonsense. Thousands of people in Northern Ireland have British passports, have British traditions and fly the British flag. Thousands are proud to be British.How many thousand? How many thousand have British passports or travel to Great Britian more then one a year not on business? Or have you any other indicator? And of them how many support violence should there be a county Ireland?
They do it because they hate all things British, hate the NI state, hate the people who support the state. They are thugs.Would you not think they believe it will achieve something? Why else would they do it?
Does it really sound that silly? Lets look at the reality, these people don't sound very bright, not well educated, sound like they are trying to get younger people on their side who aren't very bright either or have no job to go to, so the whole United Ireland thing and the whole pathetic attempt to bomb the loyalist people into a United Ireland is something which many of them will see as something to do. Sad but true.That is a rather slly comment. "
Mr A :I'm bored
Mr B: Let's go for a walk or play hurling
Mr A: Nah lets take up planning a bombing campaign because we have nothing better to do.
I doubt Gerry Adams, Mcguinness etc do either as its not the state they believe in but if the government offered them jobs at stormont, they would no doubt do it.Couldn't be that since they don't Recognise Stormont!
.Which again betrays your reactionary mindset i.e. that Loyalists are motivated by doing the opposite or countering of whatever Republicans say
No. My mindset is the political mindset. The RIRA should let the republican and loyalist people to live in peace and to move on and just accept the current political situation as it is. Instead, they can't accept it and want to blow police officers apart which is bang out of order.
Loyalists would not want to meet such people who are in the RIRA. It would be enough to make you vomit to meet such people who are in the RIRA. And like those sort of people would let the loyalist people do what they want.I am sure that if Loyalists/Unionists agreed to meet the RIRA and agreed to sign up and vote for a 32 county Ireland with the proviso that they could wear and fly British flags wherever they wanted that the RIRA would agree to a total permanent end of any campaign.
Who said that? This thread is about the RIRA and its threat to the UK and the state and the people who believe in the Union. There is plenty of reasons why nationalists signed up to the Army. Anyone who knows their history, would know for many of them it wasn't about serving the British Empire.But that isn't at issue. The point you raised was about Loyalists under threath from nationalists defending the Union. But as it happens more nationalists (who you view as opposed to the union and an enemy to be attacked ) actually voluntarily signed up.
It does raise another issue however. If there was always a majority why is it justified to take one region where the nationalists have a minority and make that part of the UK?
The state exists, its existed for a long time now, Republican and Unionists WORK for the state now and do so in a peaceful way.
Ermm, I don't know how to break this to you but the state of N.I has been around for a long time now. You should read the Ulster covenant.But even the British don't believe in a "state of NI"!
there never was any such state under Irish or British law, history or traditions.0 -
Keith, you always make a distintion between Unionists and loyalists, then band Nationalists and Republicans together. Why is that? Do you consider all Catholics are supportive of RIRA?0
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What sort of logic is that? You have to travel to Britain to be British? Nonsense.
I'm referring to the ones without passports who never applied for them . If they have such an affinity to travel there more then once a year you can add them on to the passport number but if you think that is nonsense then well stay with the passport number.Thousands of people in Northern Ireland have British passports, have British traditions and fly the British flag. Thousands are proud to be British.
How many thousand?They do it because they hate all things British, hate the NI state, hate the people who support the state.
There is a British State and an Irish State. There is NO Northern Irish state!
The RIRA don't hate British people. The original 1916 IRA didn't hate British people. They probably hated the idea of a British Empire that went around sticking their army into places and taking out what the place had to make their aristocracy richer.Does it really sound that silly? Lets look at the reality, these people don't sound very bright, not well educated,
And your evidence for that is?
the IRA leadership of 1916 were poets, philosophers etc.
The chief of Staff of the IRA in the middle 2oth century eventually won a Nobel Prize and was an internationally renowned Lawyer.
Bobby Sands was a reasonably good and educated writer.
Maybe SF today lack the intellectuals they had in the past. I don't know a lot about RIRA but I have no reason to believe they have no education.
Here is a UN submission by what I believe to be the political wing of RIRA
http://www.32csm.info/un.html
Now Ill give you the earlier parts are older but the Appendices are current and don't look like they were written by uneducated people.sound like they are trying to get younger people on their side who aren't very bright either
or have no job to go to,
I would have to disagree with you again. While that may be the case with Loyalism it would seem to me Republicans promote they myth of independence and sacrifice. Such romantic notions don't apply very much to uneducated or lazy people.so the whole United Ireland thing and the whole pathetic attempt to bomb the loyalist people into a United Ireland is something which many of them will see as something to do. Sad but true.
Not really true according to the above reference. Why don't you read it?
Maybe they are not the political wing of RIRA?I doubt Gerry Adams, Mcguinness etc do either as its not the state they believe in but if the government offered them jobs at stormont, they would no doubt do it.
If yu are saying "Can Republicans be bought off" I have no doubt they certainly can. If the price is a 32 county Ireland they probably will jump through hoops to asceed to demaqnds to fly Union flags on certain days or to have official parades etc. In fact I would think even the Garvahey road residents would agree to Orange Parades as such parades would not be viewed as triumphalism.No. My mindset is the political mindset. The RIRA should let the republican and loyalist people to live in peace and to move on and just accept the current political situation as it is. Instead, they can't accept it and want to blow police officers apart which is bang out of order.
Indeed but you are preaching to the converted. The fact that you believe something won't provide any incentive for RIRA to change.Loyalists would not want to meet such people who are in the RIRA. It would be enough to make you vomit to meet such people who are in the RIRA. And like those sort of people would let the loyalist people do what they want.
Well if you begin from that perspective you will end up like Turks and Greeks in Cyprus.Who said that?
You did! you referred to the Northern Irish State.This thread is about the RIRA and its threat to the UK and the state and the people who believe in the Union.
Union of what with what?The state exists, its existed for a long time now, Republican and Unionists WORK for the state now and do so in a peaceful way.
NO state of N Ireland exists! Under what law does such a State exist?Ermm, I don't know how to break this to you but the state of N.I has been around for a long time now. You should read the Ulster covenant.
Do you mean "Solemn League and covenant"?
I have a framed copy signed in Blood.
It was not a legal document and by the way it refers to "Ulster" . when was the last time you contributed to the culture or economy of Cavan Monaghan or Donegal?
Do you really think 230,000 men will take up arms against a Dublin government?0 -
Are you talking about people without a British passport in Northern Ireland? People who follow British values, British traditions and British culture are British as far as im concerned.I'm referring to the ones without passports who never applied for them . If they have such an affinity to travel there more then once a year you can add them on to the passport number but if you think that is nonsense then well stay with the passport number.
Well over 500 thousand. Its not wrong to say a lot of people consider themselves British who live in Northern Ireland.How many thousand?
Are you living on Pandora or something? There is a Northern Ireland state. Its called Northern Ireland. Its quite clear. I don't know how you can miss it.There is a British State and an Irish State. There is NO Northern Irish state!
The RIRA don't hate British people. The original 1916 IRA didn't hate British people. They probably hated the idea of a British Empire that went around sticking their army into places and taking out what the place had to make their aristocracy richer.
Again, I point you back to that phone call and the RIRA mentality. They don't like the British flag, or British people. They want all things British out of Northern Ireland. That is the mentality we are dealing with. You obviously didn't listen to it.And your evidence for that is?
the IRA leadership of 1916 were poets, philosophers etc.
The chief of Staff of the IRA in the middle 2oth century eventually won a Nobel Prize and was an internationally renowned Lawyer.
Bobby Sands was a reasonably good and educated writer.
Maybe SF today lack the intellectuals they had in the past. I don't know a lot about RIRA but I have no reason to believe they have no education.
Here is a UN submission by what I believe to be the political wing of RIRA
http://www.32csm.info/un.html
Now Ill give you the earlier parts are older but the Appendices are current and don't look like they were written by uneducated people.
The evidence is clear. This is a group of people who plant bombs in nationalist areas, cost nationalists from earning more money when they cut streets off with bombs which lead to shops run by nationalists. They try to kill police officers who are supported by the political institutions, that includes Sinn Fein and the SDLP. They seem to ignore the GFA too which I find really baffling.
There is a difference between what you write on a website and might seem intelligent and the actual reality of your actions. The RIRA and that website 32 counties are deluded and don't represent the majority of republicans at all.
Comparing them to your volunteers of 1916 who ended up leading your country to a Republic is really insulting.
Again, I question the intelligence of those young people. Those young people should have been brought up about the stories of the past, the troubles, the Good Friday Agreement, the peace process in general. Instead, they are being led down a path which will lead to prison and death. I don't see that as intelligent in a time which is much better than 30-40 years ago. That isn't intelligence, for me anyway.I would have to disagree with you again. While that may be the case with Loyalism it would seem to me Republicans promote they myth of independence and sacrifice. Such romantic notions don't apply very much to uneducated or lazy people.Not really true according to the above reference. Why don't you read it?
Maybe they are not the political wing of RIRA?
The actions of the RIRA is how I form my opinions on them. Its simply amazing how anyone can add logic and the RIRA together and even try to understand a group of people so thick who can't see the motion of a 15+ year peace process.If yu are saying "Can Republicans be bought off" I have no doubt they certainly can. If the price is a 32 county Ireland they probably will jump through hoops to asceed to demaqnds to fly Union flags on certain days or to have official parades etc. In fact I would think even the Garvahey road residents would agree to Orange Parades as such parades would not be viewed as triumphalism.
Exactly. So why would it be daft to assume the people in the RIRA might end up finding themselves working at stormont? Don't write it off. These people are going down a dark alley which has no end to it. They will need to turn back sooner or later.Indeed but you are preaching to the converted. The fact that you believe something won't provide any incentive for RIRA to change.
Well it should. If they have ANY intelligence at all, they will wake up but sadly I think many of them are either doomed for life imprisonment or worse.
You would need to be deluded if you think the state of Northern Ireland doesn't exist. More powers are actually coming from London to Northern Ireland all the time.You did! you referred to the Northern Irish State.Do you mean "Solemn League and covenant"?
I have a framed copy signed in Blood.
It was not a legal document and by the way it refers to "Ulster" . when was the last time you contributed to the culture or economy of Cavan Monaghan or Donegal?
Do you really think 230,000 men will take up arms against a Dublin government?
You know as well as i do that Ulster refers to the 6 counties of Ulster. The majority of the counties in Ulster. Those other 3 counties of Ulster belong in the Republic.
What 230,000 men?0 -
You seem to be missing the point that Ireland is one of the British Isles. The Irish government may not like that term but I'm sure Unionists do.I'm referring to the ones without passports who never applied for them . If they have such an affinity to travel there more then once a year you can add them on to the passport number but if you think that is nonsense then well stay with the passport number.
True. Northern Ireland is part of the UK.There is a British State and an Irish State. There is NO Northern Irish state!
Surely then they hated the French? And the Germans? And the Dutch? And the Spanish? And the Belgians? And the Portuguese? Or did they only hate the country that was to their benifite to hate?The RIRA don't hate British people. The original 1916 IRA didn't hate British people. They probably hated the idea of a British Empire that went around sticking their army into places and taking out what the place had to make their aristocracy richer.
What are you talking about? The IRA has always appealed to young down trodden nationalists with little prospects who blamed their failure on the discrimination of the Northern Irish political system. (Not that there wasn't discrimination.)I would have to disagree with you again. While that may be the case with Loyalism it would seem to me Republicans promote they myth of independence and sacrifice. Such romantic notions don't apply very much to uneducated or lazy people.0 -
Basically ISAW is saying what iv been saying for a while, Northern Ireland IS British but putting it across as a Northern Irish state, would of thought it would of been a bit nicer and more fair but have it your way.0
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I did yeah
But i think people getting caught up about something that hasnt happened yet is silly..
Did you apply the same reasoning to AL Kayda announcing a campaign of bombing or to people who announced the IMF were coming to Ireland as being silly when they were announced before they happened?
Let me put it another way. How can you say someone is a good prediction or a bad prediction if the predictor only mentions it after it happens?0 -
We are talking about your claim of "thousands and thousands"Are you talking about people without a British passport in Northern Ireland? People who follow British values, British traditions and British culture are British as far as im concerned.
I think we have already dealt with what you consider British. I'm only asking you how many people consider themselvces British and never irish and how many of them will take up arms should the majority vote for a 32 country Ireland,Well over 500 thousand.
And this number is based on....WHAT evidence?Its not wrong to say a lot of people consider themselves British who live in Northern Ireland.
I am not getting into a side issue I dealt with elsewhere. I'm asking you how many people consider themselves exclusively British and of them how many will take up arms like the RIRA.Are you living on Pandora or something? There is a Northern Ireland state. Its called Northern Ireland. Its quite clear. I don't know how you can miss it.
Can you point me to any document which mentions the State of "Northern Ireland"
Under Irish law it isn't a State and under British law it isn't a state!
On what basis do you claim Northern Ireland is a State?
What is a State by your own definition?
Is Kerry a State? Or Connaught? Or Wales ? Or Cornwall?Again, I point you back to that phone call and the RIRA mentality. They don't like the British flag, or British people. They want all things British out of Northern Ireland. That is the mentality we are dealing with. You obviously didn't listen to it.
And Ill point you back to the reality that their main issue is British rule in Ireland and i do not doubt they might well accept British flags and English as a language and maybe even join Sterling or the commonwealth or have the Gardai protect Orange marches if the British agreed to a 32 county Ireland. Their main gripe is British rule.They seem to ignore the GFA too which I find really baffling.
Let me explain. Republicans believe in a 32 county republic. They dont think dublin, Kerry, Belfast Unionists or any other sub group should have a veto over the vast majority of Ireland. The believe it is whe will of the vast majority to have a 32 county Republic. This is the exact same issue which caused the Irish Civil War. so they see Sinn Fein as selling out just as Sinn Fein viewed Fianna Fail of selling out republicanism by going into the non 26 country Parliament and signing an oath to the Queen.There is a difference between what you write on a website and might seem intelligent and the actual reality of your actions. The RIRA and that website 32 counties are deluded and don't represent the majority of republicans at all.
I never claimed it did represent people other than representing their view.
A lot of the human rights history however would be shared with Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein.Comparing them to your volunteers of 1916 who ended up leading your country to a Republic is really insulting.
there are valid comparisons none the less. Terence Mac Sweeny himself it is those who suffer the most and those who endure that triumph in the end and not those who inflict the most damage. In this way people like the 1916 leaders and Mc Sweeny were immortalised by the British killing them. Similarly Bobby Sands achieved similar mythical status. the fact that the IRA were selling him out or not does not negate the comparison nor the strength of the image of endurance in the eyes of republicans.Again, I question the intelligence of those young people. Those young people should have been brought up about the stories of the past, the troubles, the Good Friday Agreement, the peace process in general. Instead, they are being led down a path which will lead to prison and death. I don't see that as intelligent in a time which is much better than 30-40 years ago. That isn't intelligence, for me anyway.
They are brought up with stories about the past. It is called history. REpublican history is awash with people dying for the cause of freedom. Just like the "our boys" type stories oif English public schools which provoked kids into signing up for the trenches. Was dying of dysentery or drowning in a mud slide such a noble death?The actions of the RIRA is how I form my opinions on them. Its simply amazing how anyone can add logic and the RIRA together and even try to understand a group of people so thick who can't see the motion of a 15+ year peace process.
they aren't thick! Well many of them arent. they are principled. Just as Orange men view being banned from marching as taking from their freedom. they may view the whole thing as a Catholic conspiracy and that the Pope is behind it. They aren't thick it is just the stories they believe. the way out is to examoiine the stories and ask for evidence.
You know like asking where there is evidence of a Northern Ireland State?Exactly. So why would it be daft to assume the people in the RIRA might end up finding themselves working at stormont? Don't write it off. These people are going down a dark alley which has no end to it. They will need to turn back sooner or later.
Not if they believe they are morally correct. Even if they gave up violence anyway they would still view the Oireachtas or Stormont as false. Just like the pensioner who returned his centenarian cheque from the President. They will only run for a parliament agreed to by all the Irish people. If that parliament then decides to regionalise they will run for Stormont.Well it should. If they have ANY intelligence at all, they will wake up but sadly I think many of them are either doomed for life imprisonment or worse.
But remember we got into this as result of you saying some Unionists would fight against a 32 county ireland. so do you think they will betray their principles and accept a 32 county Ireland? How come you don't apply the same rules to them?You would need to be deluded if you think the state of Northern Ireland doesn't exist.
Just repeating it doesn't PROVE it! Wher is your evidence.More powers are actually coming from London to Northern Ireland all the time.
More powers are been given to London as well. Does that mean a "State of London"
exists?You know as well as i do that Ulster refers to the 6 counties of Ulster. The majority of the counties in Ulster. Those other 3 counties of Ulster belong in the Republic.
You are contradicting yourself! You are saying Ulster is six of the nine counties in Ulster!
Why do only six of the nine counties of Ulster belong in Northern Ireland?
How did that come about?What 230,000 men?
How many men signed the solemn league and covenant?
How many today will take up arms against a 32 county ireland?
You do realise "Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right" referred to Ulster i.e. nine counties?
Why did they allow three to become part of the Free State?Iwasfrozen wrote: »You seem to be missing the point that Ireland is one of the British Isles. The Irish government may not like that term but I'm sure Unionists do.
Geologically or geographically maybe but not politically. The point being made was how many British are in Ireland and how many will take up arms against Ireland?True. Northern Ireland is part of the UK.
I think the preferred Southern term is "under British jurisdiction"Surely then they hated the French? And the Germans? And the Dutch? And the Spanish? And the Belgians? And the Portuguese? Or did they only hate the country that was to their benifite to hate?
If you look at Republican history it is avowedly anti Imperialist. Whether that be French or British. As regards Dutch they were a breakaway from the Spanish Empire and focused mostly on trade and not on conquering. In spite of them being much older, Republicans would however also oppose the modern problems created by dutch or Portugese or Spanish Empires e.g. Timor, cuba, South Africa
But the IRA (who only existed since about 1919) would have a special place for the British
since the British were occupying Ireland at the time.What are you talking about? The IRA has always appealed to young down trodden nationalists with little prospects who blamed their failure on the discrimination of the Northern Irish political system. (Not that there wasn't discrimination.)
Im talking about the point made that they had "nothing better to do" or "were lazy"
here is what jkeith stated:these people don't sound very bright, not well educated, sound like they are trying to get younger people on their side who aren't very bright either or have no job to go to,Basically ISAW is saying what iv been saying for a while, Northern Ireland IS British but putting it across as a Northern Irish state, would of thought it would of been a bit nicer and more fair but have it your way.
You seem confused about what "Ulster" is.
Northern Ireland is Irish ( hint: the term "IRELAND" in the title) but is under British rule and jurisdiction.
Why is northern Ireland not nine counties of Ulster Kieth?
Why is it only six?0 -
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I have already posted how many. This is just my view, not factual but I doubt I would be miles off.We are talking about your claim of "thousands and thousands"
I think we have already dealt with what you consider British. I'm only asking you how many people consider themselvces British and never irish and how many of them will take up arms should the majority vote for a 32 country Ireland,
Just an assumption.And this number is based on....WHAT evidence?I am not getting into a side issue I dealt with elsewhere. I'm asking you how many people consider themselves exclusively British and of them how many will take up arms like the RIRA.
Look above. I have answered that. And again, the prediction (remember, just a prediction and an opinion) on how many loyalists would take up arms if a United Ireland did happen would be a good couple of thousand, perhaps more. Depends what happens though. Situations dictate actions.Can you point me to any document which mentions the State of "Northern Ireland"
Under Irish law it isn't a State and under British law it isn't a state!
On what basis do you claim Northern Ireland is a State?
What is a State by your own definition?
Is Kerry a State? Or Connaught? Or Wales ? Or Cornwall?
So what do you see Northern Ireland as then? Northern Ireland is getting more power all the time from London, has its own police force and politicians and parties. I consider Northern Ireland as British as that is what the majority in Northern Ireland are.
Hold on, your basically saying they have no problem with the British flag, British people, British culture, yet they are happy enough to plant bombs in nationalist areas, potentially killing nationalists, trying to kill the police officers who represent the wide community which is supported by the majority and also Sinn Fein and most sensible parties.And Ill point you back to the reality that their main issue is British rule in Ireland and i do not doubt they might well accept British flags and English as a language and maybe even join Sterling or the commonwealth or have the Gardai protect Orange marches if the British agreed to a 32 county Ireland. Their main gripe is British rule.
And I should point you out to the reality. The vast majority of people in Northern Ireland signed up to the GFA and more people would probably support it even more now than they did back in the day when they were setting up the GFA.Let me explain. Republicans believe in a 32 county republic. They dont think dublin, Kerry, Belfast Unionists or any other sub group should have a veto over the vast majority of Ireland. The believe it is whe will of the vast majority to have a 32 county Republic. This is the exact same issue which caused the Irish Civil War. so they see Sinn Fein as selling out just as Sinn Fein viewed Fianna Fail of selling out republicanism by going into the non 26 country Parliament and signing an oath to the Queen.
The vast vast majority of republicans support the GFA. The will of the majority will dictate Northern Irelands future. The RIRA need to see that the people in the republic will and can't dictate what happens in Northern Ireland and its future.
Are you seriously comparing the 1916 rebels who laid the foundations for a sovereign republic to people who actually try to upset the majority and plant bombs in nationalist areas? The RIRA are the Irish taliban. They seem more interested in destruction than anything else.there are valid comparisons none the less. Terence Mac Sweeny himself it is those who suffer the most and those who endure that triumph in the end and not those who inflict the most damage. In this way people like the 1916 leaders and Mc Sweeny were immortalised by the British killing them. Similarly Bobby Sands achieved similar mythical status. the fact that the IRA were selling him out or not does not negate the comparison nor the strength of the image of endurance in the eyes of republicans.
Its called child abuse. Be proud of your culture, your traditions and your history. Fine. But don't go down the path of planting bombs and trying to blow people up when there is NO need for it at all and it can't be justified. They are thick. If they believe what they are doing, they are thick and need help.They are brought up with stories about the past. It is called history. REpublican history is awash with people dying for the cause of freedom. Just like the "our boys" type stories oif English public schools which provoked kids into signing up for the trenches. Was dying of dysentery or drowning in a mud slide such a noble death?they aren't thick! Well many of them arent. they are principled. Just as Orange men view being banned from marching as taking from their freedom. they may view the whole thing as a Catholic conspiracy and that the Pope is behind it. They aren't thick it is just the stories they believe. the way out is to examoiine the stories and ask for evidence.
You know like asking where there is evidence of a Northern Ireland State?
Some people believe a snake can talk if you read the bible. They should be taught about the GFA and the 'bad days' and not be brainwashed into thinking they can get a 32 county republic by violence and trying to intimidate the loyalist people.
Which they aren't. You can't possibly think they are right?Not if they believe they are morally correct. Even if they gave up violence anyway they would still view the Oireachtas or Stormont as false. Just like the pensioner who returned his centenarian cheque from the President. They will only run for a parliament agreed to by all the Irish people. If that parliament then decides to regionalise they will run for Stormont.Just repeating it doesn't PROVE it! Wher is your evidence.
Again, its one of those. Do you take the document al evidence as THE evidence or do you look at the current situation and the lose of power from London to Northern Ireland. Two communities working in a government different from the republican government.You are contradicting yourself! You are saying Ulster is six of the nine counties in Ulster!
Why do only six of the nine counties of Ulster belong in Northern Ireland?
How did that come about?
You know how it came about. Why do you need a loyalist/Unionist to tell you about how 6 of the Ulster counties joined the UK.How many men signed the solemn league and covenant?
How many today will take up arms against a 32 county ireland?
You do realise "Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right" referred to Ulster i.e. nine counties?
Why did they allow three to become part of the Free State?
You know how it did. Again, I don't need to put it out to you. Its well documented about gerrymandering.I think the preferred Southern term is "under British jurisdiction"
We aren't talking about the southern term. Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom.You seem confused about what "Ulster" is.
Northern Ireland is Irish ( hint: the term "IRELAND" in the title) but is under British rule and jurisdiction.
Why is northern Ireland not nine counties of Ulster Kieth?
Why is it only six?
Again, you know why. For me, Northern Ireland is British because the majority of people in it are British.0
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