The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

VinLieger

Hahahaha wooo EUCJ rules minimum pricing is illegal and a tax should be imposed instead in Scotland!!!

http://www.thejournal.ie/alcohol-minimum-pricing-european-court-2517139-Dec2015/

Take that Leo and VFI!!!

Banjo String

VinLieger wrote: »

Hahahaha wooo EUCJ rules minimum pricing is illegal and a tax should be imposed instead in Scotland!!!

http://www.thejournal.ie/alcohol-minimum-pricing-european-court-2517139-Dec2015/

Take that Leo and VFI!!!

*cracks open can of Karpackie*

(What else to wash down a tumbler of buckfast at 10am?)

Richard Hillman

This is the best Christmas present I've ever had.

Annasopra

Richard Hillman wrote: »

This is the best Christmas present I've ever had.

Higher taxes on alcohol?

suicide_circus

Shove that up your trumpet you vintner bastards!

Banjo String

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Higher taxes on alcohol?

Lost revenue as people stock up cross border.

suicide_circus

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Higher taxes on alcohol?

I look forward to the vintners lobbying against this

Macy0161

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Higher taxes on alcohol?

That's not necessarily the outcome - just the alternative the court has given if they want to hit the price of alcohol.

Delighted anyway - minimum pricing was always an elitist proposal.

jack presley

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/european-court-rules-against-minimum-alcohol-pricing-1.2476070?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Boom...!!!

Atlantic Dawn

Christmas always was the time of miracles. Sometimes the EU ain't all that bad.

jack presley

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Christmas always was the time of miracles. Sometimes the EU ain't all that bad.

....as long as you don't work for a tobacco company

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/european-court-of-justice-rules-in-favour-of-plain-packaging-directive-for-cigarettes-1.2475981

kingtiger

Up yours Leo

you might have to hand back that brown envelope to the Vintners and Diageo

-=al=-

Weh hey! Good sensible news that.

I think I'll celebrate by having one responsible drink later :pac:

Custardpi

So if I understand correctly the only way that the government can increase the price of alcohol is to increase tax on it, but this would have to apply to both off & on licence sales, meaning the vintners would be less enthusiastic about such a measure. Have I got that right?

Banjo String

I'd laugh if the west Dublin electorate punished Leo for this gerrymandering to the VFI.

Lord Derpington

Custardpi wrote: »

So if I understand correctly the only way that the government can increase the price of alcohol is to increase tax on it, but this would have to apply to both off & on licence sales, meaning the vintners would be less enthusiastic about such a measure. Have I got that right?

In theory, however they could draw a distinction between off licence sales and pub sales etc and increase the tax that way, but it would be even more transparent that it is puerly favour of VFI and unlikely (hopefully) to happen.

The_Valeyard

Do not celebrate just yet, they will find another way. Probably put a tax on aluminium cans over a certain size containing liquid.

Atlantic Dawn

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Do not celebrate just yet, they will find another way. Probably put a tax on aluminium cans over a certain size containing liquid.

That they will but the alcohol manufacturers are well financed and will get the best legal teams available to fight it.

tfmf

Minimum price will affect the pubs, most sell bottled beer from the supermarket anyway

hatrickpatrick

Lord Derpington wrote: »

In theory, however they could draw a distinction between off licence sales and pub sales etc and increase the tax that way, but it would be even more transparent that it is puerly favour of VFI and unlikely (hopefully) to happen.

Would this not be even more likely to be ruled as anti-competitive by the ECJ?

My understanding of Europe's competition laws is that the EU is not a fan of promoting one sector over another in similar circumstances, in other words that the EU's competition laws are likely to prohibit the deliberate hammering of one market sector over another selling the same product.

In that context, I really can't imagine that a tax on a certain product which differentiates between the venues where that product is sold would be found to be legal.

Lord Derpington

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Would this not be even more likely to be ruled as anti-competitive by the ECJ?

My understanding of Europe's competition laws is that the EU is not a fan of promoting one sector over another in similar circumstances, in other words that the EU's competition laws are likely to prohibit the deliberate hammering of one market sector over another selling the same product.

In that context, I really can't imagine that a tax on a certain product which differentiates between the venues where that product is sold would be found to be legal.

I think from reading the BBC article here that the ruling was indeed like you say a compettion one, but also a free trade one from Europe on a whole, that is obviouly my own interpertation however, the article just says;

BBC wrote:

The Court of Justice considers that the effect of the Scottish legislation is significantly to restrict the market

This could be a competition ruling within Europe just as much as it could be off license vs pub.
You would have to imagine however that they looked at it objectively from a European wide standpoint that if this was to pass in Scotland with Ireland so quick on its heels it would only be a matter of time before it rippled across Europe.
Meaning that there would be a massive loss of revenue and jobs across Europe, yes there might be health benefits if the consumption was reduced.
The lower priced budget brand alcohol manufacturers might aswell close their doors if it passed and made a can of dutch gold or bottle of beer dór the same price as a can of Grolsch.

On the larger scale while in Tenerife during the summer months I was able to purchase a bottle of Rioja for less than €2 and it was very tasty, if this law did pass and it rippled across Europe where it could be said the attitude to alcohol is a healthier one, it could have massive economic impacts.

Granted its an infographic but worldmapper.org has a poster that illistrates the point
"Alcohol and cigarettes account for 0.9% of money spent on international trade. Western European territories alone profit from two thirds of the worldwide net exports. Regional exports from Western Europe are 72% of all regional exports. France and the Netherlands have the highest value of
exports, and both these territories are in the top ten list of net exporters by population."

Muahahaha

Custardpi wrote: »

So if I understand correctly the only way that the government can increase the price of alcohol is to increase tax on it, but this would have to apply to both off & on licence sales, meaning the vintners would be less enthusiastic about such a measure. Have I got that right?

Pretty much correct. Currently off sales can be as low as 20% of pub prices. Leos new laws would have meant they rose up to 40% of the price of pubs, it was a law deliberately targeted at off licences whilst avoiding any negative impact for publicans. In fact publicans thought they stood to gain as less people might drink at home as a result. Now thats not going to happen so anyone who likes to have a drink at home can celebrate.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Do not celebrate just yet, they will find another way. Probably put a tax on aluminium cans over a certain size containing liquid.

haha I like your thinking. But if they did that the aluminium industry in the EU would be taking cases too. Plus I doubt it would be within EU trade laws to tax aluminium used for beer cans higher than aluminium used for other products. Sometimes the EU has way more common sense than our own politicians.

So to Leo we say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_4bLNM0axE

Ineedaname

So I just heard on the radio someone saying that because Ireland has such high tax on drink that it's proof taxes don't work to discourage drinking.

So we need to increase the prices more apparently.

Which makes no sense

Spanish Eyes

We can't mention Slabs anymore. There is a sentence pending somewhere. LOL.

In other news.... The VFI are calling for MUP to be brought in anyway. Read it here, and don't be put off by them welcoming it broadly either, read to the end!!

http://www.vfi.ie/News/vfi-broadly-welcomes-ecj-judgement-on-mup-166

suicide_circus

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We can't mention Slabs anymore. There is a sentence pending somewhere. LOL.

In other news.... The VFI are calling for MUP to be brought in anyway. Read it here, and don't be put off by them welcoming it broadly either, read to the end!!

http://www.vfi.ie/News/vfi-broadly-welcomes-ecj-judgement-on-mup-166

L O L

Absolute joke of an organisation. Complete hypocrites. Scum.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Basil3 wrote: »

Maybe Irish people think tourists come here to drink pints in pubs?

If you do the Guinness brewery tour, you get a free pint. I've done it a few times with visiting relatives, and you'd be amazed how many tourists sip a bit of their free pint, then walk away.

Haha this is so true, I've been on it about 6 times in the past few years with people visiting from overseas. I've observed people the Gravity Bar taking a sip and then starting to gag, and saying things like "what the fcuk is this sh1t?" "Oh man, not good."

Poor lil yankee babies can't handle the stuff, they'd rather drink a half pint of some mule piss lager.

mikeym

Up yours VFI

Up yours Fine Gael

No doubt the SNEAKY Government will be stubborn and will plead the we are stone broke excuse like they did with the VRT.

Atlantic Dawn

If the same thing was done in the motor trade where no car could be sold for less than €50k, every single manufacturer who sold a car previously below this price would find their business destroyed.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Simon2015

jack presley wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/european-court-rules-against-minimum-alcohol-pricing-1.2476070?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Boom...!!!

A victory for common sense:pac: