The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Degag

TheUsual wrote: »

"Stop talking ****e."


You win the argument. I give up.

The better debater won.

It's not a debate, it's a fact.

Biggins

Degag wrote: »

It goes on in every town and village where i'm from. In one town, a pub lowered his prices by 20c and the other publicans saw red. The publican in question didn't give a crap because he owned the pub fully anyway, and was already the busiest pub in the town by a considerable margin.

I can name another pub for example in Drogheda (near the "Cup and Saucer"), Co Louth that the exact same thing happened in.
One dropped its prices lower and another one just up the road complained to the VFI. Next thing all knew in the pub, the VFI men in suits became regular visitors "advising".

ardinn

TheUsual wrote: »

Again the "ridiculed by you" , oh "woe is me" melodrama. poor victim of us selfish home drinkers.

Excellent posts on here telling you that if a shop chanrgs the price that a market can support then that shop will be here next year.
You lads will not.

You need to change your business model - and that goes for the VFI too.

Where did I say "woe is me"?? Or that I was a victim? I pointed out severe flaws in your post and opinions as nothing you said related to me or my business or my business model when you implied it did - it was just a load of false statements put together to brand all publicans as one.

Now please Back up your statements as I have asked

Degag

ColHol wrote: »

Have to agree with the bulk buying argument.

Lets say Diageo sell Product A to the Cash and Carrys at €20, they sell to the vintners at €30 and the vintners sell it on at €35.

Why dont the publicans set up a buying group (similar to SuperValue) which tell Diageo they will buy the product at €20, pass it on to all publicans cost neutral then the publicans are effectively buying direct at a massive discount? Cut out the middleman as such. Prices drop, sales increase etc. Even if they buying group only buy off a cash and carry they can still avail of qty discounts.

Theres a serious lack of inventiveness and innovation in anything the VFI come out with.

I think you're getting mixed up? The Vintners are only an organisation - a trade union of sorts - they don't buy or sell alcohol.

ardinn

Degag wrote: »

*Regarding a cartel, not sure if you want clarification on another point*
It goes on in every town and village where i'm from. In one town, a pub lowered his prices by 20c and the other publicans saw red. The publican in question didn't give a crap because he owned the pub fully anyway, and was already the busiest pub in the town by a considerable margin.

So he didnt care - and nothing changed - so then there is actually no cartel - And yes thats what I was referring to.

TheUsual

Degag wrote: »

It's not a debate, it's a fact.

I was being sarcastic.
It means that you either are too ignorant to keep your business going and so it should be shut down, or you have read the ideas that people on here have offered and turn around your business.

It's a new Ireland and time for new ideas. Your ones are the old failed kind.
People don't open their wallets for you anymore and that is their choice. And in a small way that is their power over you.

Change or die.

Degag

ardinn wrote: »

So he didnt care - and nothing changed - so then there is actually no cartel - And yes thats what I was referring to.

There is really in my region. It's not a coincedence that in my nearest village, a pint of Guinness is €3.55, in all 7 pubs - it has been the same way for years.

In the town i was referring to earlier there are close to 20 pubs - all the same price except for one.

ardinn

bobsoice23 wrote: »

Heineken or Murphys please!whichever's cheaper

Murphy's €3:75 please

Also just to let you know sir we do sell Bavaria at €3:10 should sir be a little skint

Biggins

ardinn wrote: »

So he didnt care - and nothing changed - so then there is actually no cartel - And yes thats what I was referring to.

There might be no official cartel but by god when the pennies, now cents start to become more rare, I seen over a lot of years, many a group of pubs close ranks and try and drive competition out in my home town alone!

ardinn

Degag wrote: »

There is really in my region. It's not a coincedence that in my nearest village, a pint of Guinness is €3.55, in all 7 pubs - it has been the same way for years.

In the town i was referring to earlier there are close to 20 pubs - all the same price except for one.

Thats good value IMO - Rather than be a fix i'd say it's individuals afraid to charge more in case of losing custom - €3:55 is a steal - and good Value IMO.

Degag

TheUsual wrote: »

I was being sarcastic.
It means that you either are too ignorant to keep your business going and so it should be shut down, or you have read the ideas that people on here have offered and turn around your business.

It's a new Ireland and time for new ideas yours are the old failed kind.
People don't open their wallets for you anymore and that is their choice. And in a small way that is their power over you.

Change or die.

Why are you referring "you" in your post? I was stating a fact referring to the vintners, not any business practices that i may or may not have.

ardinn

Biggins wrote: »

There might be no official cartel but by god when the pennies, now cents start to become more rare, I seen over a lot of years, many a group of pubs close ranks and try and drive competition out in my home town alone!

So when tesco's drive out small independant supermarkets its good - but when pubs try to drive out new competition its a cartel

StupidLikeAFox

Degag wrote: »

I think you're getting mixed up? The Vintners are only an organisation - a trade union of sorts - they don't buy or sell alcohol.

I said nothing about the VFI buying or selling alcohol, I said why dont the publicans set up a buying group which would have some similar clout to the multiples.

Granted, there would be a significant overlap in the members of each though.

Biggins

ardinn wrote: »

So when tesco's drive out small independent supermarkets its good - but when pubs try to drive out new competition its a cartel

Both cases are bad but until you can show Tescos is running a cartel with other supermarkets, that point is moot and irrelevant to the current point of discussion.

Degag

ardinn wrote: »

Thats good value IMO - Rather than be a fix i'd say it's individuals afraid to charge more in case of losing custom - €3:55 is a steal - and good Value IMO.

Fantastic value! And in my local - about 4 miles away from that village and 10c dearer, people still complain about the price of drink! - However, as cheap as it is comparibaly - would you not think that one pub would lower it's price by a few cent to draw in a few extra customers?

Degag

ColHol wrote: »

I said nothing about the VFI buying or selling alcohol, I said why dont the publicans set up a buying group which would have some similar clout to the multiples.

Granted, there would be a significant overlap in the members of each though.

Sorry, when you siad this

they sell to the vintners at €30 and the vintners sell it on at €35.

i presumed you were talking about the VFI.

ardinn

ColHol wrote: »

I said nothing about the VFI buying or selling alcohol, I said why dont the publicans set up a buying group which would have some similar clout to the multiples.

Granted, there would be a significant overlap in the members of each though.

They dont because the price would be virtually the same.

Im sorry but I have not posted this yet somehow.

You do all know that the drink sold by supermarkets is nearly all imported from England in order to further reduce costs?? If your drinking 5% vol Heineken from tesco - its english, not made here the 4.3% stuff is irish - And also if they cannot buy it cheaply over there they export it and re-import it clearing alot of tax when they do so*

*Something along those lines.not certain of the practice.

ardinn

Degag wrote: »

Fantastic value! And in my local - about 4 miles away from that village and 10c dearer, people still complain about the price of drink! - However, as cheap as it is comparibaly - would you not think that one pub would lower it's price by a few cent to draw in a few extra customers?

At €3.55?? no i wouldnt think they would at all!!

ardinn

Biggins wrote: »

Both cases are bad but until you can show Tescos is running a cartel with other supermarkets, that point is moot and irrelevant to the current point of discussion.

No it isnt - until you can prove a cartel is in operation within pubs in your area.

oppenheimer1

ardinn wrote: »

They dont because the price would be virtually the same.

Im sorry but I have not posted this yet somehow.

You do all know that the drink sold by supermarkets is nearly all imported from England in order to further reduce costs?? If your drinking 5% vol Heineken from tesco - its english, not made here the 4.3% stuff is irish - And also if they cannot buy it cheaply over there they export it and re-import it clearing alot of tax when they do so*

*Something along those lines.not certain of the practice.

Whats stopping a large group of Publicans from doing the same thing? Would it be lack of vision, creativity and inertia?

Biggins

ardinn wrote: »

No it isnt - until you can prove a cartel is in operation within pubs in your area.

What are you on about!

We're talking about a cartel situation and you bring up how ONE supermarket might force out others!
(Which is whole separate topic in itself completely)
ONE supermarket - does not make a cartel! Stop trying to muddy the waters and stay on point!

StupidLikeAFox

ardinn wrote: »

They dont because the price would be virtually the same.

Im sorry but I have not posted this yet somehow.

You do all know that the drink sold by supermarkets is nearly all imported from England in order to further reduce costs?? If your drinking 5% vol Heineken from tesco - its english, not made here the 4.3% stuff is irish - And also if they cannot buy it cheaply over there they export it and re-import it clearing alot of tax when they do so*

*Something along those lines.not certain of the practice.

Couldnt this imaginary buying group do the same then?

ardinn

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Whats stopping a large group of Publicans from doing the same thing? Would it be lack of vision, creativity and inertia?

Setting up that sort of business would cost millions - be a logistical nightmare and im sure someone like the competition authority or some other group would oppose it.

HellFireClub

Just speaking as a non-regular punter and I suppose you could consider me as good as a student at the mo in terms of real spending power, there is a pyschological thing with me and the 3 Euro price barrier, the price would have to come WELL under 3 Euro for me to see value in it again, (I'm thinking 2.70 Euro), and I'd expect it to drop further back in the next year or two by a few cent to 2.50 Euro for me to be tempted out as a regular punter.

It's up to you guys to put up to your local authorities, (another vested interest in this debate), about stuff like unaffordable and unsustainable rates, because until we get back to reality in this country in relation to jobs, cost of jobs and the insane business overheads, we are going to continue losing jobs by the thousands every month. There is something criminal about the way the local authorities are putting businesses to the wall via the courts system because small businesses cannot afford to pay what are unaffordable rates, kept high in order to pay employees of local authorities who have been protected by the Croke Park Deal... I'm hearing stories of assh*les from local authorities pestering tiny businesses for hundreds of Euro for having a breadboard type stand outside their premises advertising special offers, it's a disgrace, TV3 should doorstep these parasite sc*mbags...

Degag

ardinn wrote: »

At €3.55?? no i wouldnt think they would at all!!

Why? Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it couldn't be cheaper.

ardinn

Biggins wrote: »

What are you on about!

We're talking about a cartel situation and you bring up how ONE supermarket might force out others!
(Which is whole separate topic in itself completely)
ONE supermarket - does not make a cartel! Stop trying to muddy the waters and stay on point!

Im sorry - but maybe im not understaing you -

Your talking about a fictional cartel group that you are unable to prove exists.

You stated publicans have driven out new competition - I stated that tesco have done the same. yet you said that the publicans were a cartel - yet that a multi is not.

If you were saying the publicans met, fixed and implemented a strategy to drive out a new competitor then prove it. If im missing something please explain it and I can clarify what i meant.

oppenheimer1

This was the situation with regards the price of the Pint in 2009, and the breakdown in cost between excise etc. I don't think excise has changed that much so these figures should be still within the ballpark for 2011

In Ireland, a pint of stout costs about e3.95 - which is e1.13 more than in Britain. Out of that, the Exchequer takes e1.19, the brewery gets one cent less, while the publican pockets a handsome e1.58 - or 40 per cent of what the customer pays out. - Irish Times

Biggins

Instead of the VFI continously annoying a government to eventaully force more money out of the public one way or another, maybe the VFI should be lobbying the goernment more so for changes to things like tax rates, lower public liability insurace rates, water charge rates, vat rates and on and on and on...

There is only so much the public can cough up and forcing supermarkets to up their prices does NOT mean that the public is then going to automatically switch to the pubs instead!

Degag

HellFireClub wrote: »

the price would have to come WELL under 3 Euro for me to see value in it again, (I'm thinking 2.70 Euro), and I'd expect it to drop further back in the next year or two by a few cent to 2.50 Euro for me to be tempted out as a regular punter.

It'll NEVER happen.

Numb.Muzik

I dont know what pubs are complaining about
majority of pubs around here buy 80% of there drink in supermarkets so its just as good for them as it is for us