The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Degag

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It was an academic exercise just to point out that the scope for such reductions is actually there. But realistically if a bar can double its turnover and reduce its overheads (which is possible) a €0.75 reduction in the price of a pint could be achieved.

It just takes vision.

From a higher price yes. It's not feasible to sell a pint for under €3 though - unless you are Weatherspoons who can employ huge economies of scale.

ardinn

OK - I cant stay awake any longer although id love to stay here with this topic all night. And my dog just went into heat on my missus new white rug (fuckin lovely. Peace - its been informative, fun, and really frustrating.

Ill try continue tomorrow.

Biggins

ardinn wrote: »

OK - I cant stay awake any longer although id love to stay here with this topic all night. And my dog just went into heat on my missus new white rug (fuckin lovely. Peace - its been informative, fun, and really frustrating.

Ill try continue tomorrow.

Me to bed too - fair play so far for sticking around and debating your side of things!
(A lot of which I can see where your coming from)

ardinn

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? nothing sweetens the electorate like a drop in the cost of alcohol. The only reason they wouldn't do it is if they fear any price drop will be absorbed by the publicans, and not passed onto the consumer, like the last time.

Between 70 and 90% of pubs passed on that reduction, I cant remember the exact figure - when the reduction was implemented - the VFI sent a letter to all members stating that they should do this immediately - as the VFI has no control over the individual pricing thats all they could do. When the figures were released - the VFI sent another letter informing publicans that if they hav'nt done it yet they should do it immediately as to avoid the reversing of the decision.

To say that the reduction was not passed on is, in the statistics, False.

ardinn

Now im going.

Goodnight

zagmund

ardinn wrote: »

Sorry - I didnt see it.

It does contribute to cash-flow and I just tried to absorb it - Its probably something in my head that I thought I needed to offer my customers - which I think I do - but the reality that it is just not viable to sustain has set in.

There is nothing worse or more heart-wrenching than having a few people walk in to your pub and ask are you showing the match, and when you say no - watching them walk away. I have had to do it at times when I couldnt pay the sky bill and its actually crushing.

Ardinn, thanks for the explanation. Don't forget though that for every group that walk in asking about the game and walk out again there are others who the publican doesn't interact with and who don't bother walking in or asking if they see that the game is on. They see the game on, the loud TVs, etc . . . and just decide they're not going to come in. I doubt very much that they are going to ask the barman to turn the telly off. So, the barman doesn't get to see them walk out the door and feel the pain, the barman just doesn't get to see them at all. It doesn't mean they aren't customers lost.

In other words, your pub could now become the place to go for people who don't want the TV on all the time in the background. Think of this as a) money saving and b) a differentiator for your location. I think it's a positive step.

Of course there will always be people who want to watch a match with their mates - no harm there. They should be able to go to a range of pubs which target the sports market, while the rest of the market go to the range of pubs that don't target the sports market.

z

rubadub

Naikon wrote: »

To the people that complain about prices, would you go and buy a steak in Tesco and proudly proclaim "I can get a steak for <5 euro while the restauraunt charges me 25+, the bastards?" I am not saying people should pay prices in pubs if they don't feel like it, it's a free market after all, shop around. Just pisses me off rightly when people compare the economies of a typical supermarket to a local family run pub.

If unfair comparisons piss you off then refrain from making them yourself! There is a lot more involved in cooking up and serving a good steak than opening a bottle of beer. A fairer comparison would be somebody buying a bar of chocolate or can of coke in a cafe -a prepackaged product you can get in a supermarket. A pint of coke in my local costs €8.40, if a cafe tried to charge that you would hear complaints and a cafe would have similar enough overheads to a pub.

Naikon wrote: »

Did you ever consider the other aspects of the pub than just the drink though?. Do you agree that a really good pub with live entertainment and good banter may just be a nice change from skulling buckfast/cans in your gaff everynight?

This has changed over the years though. When I was young the lads would go to the pub to see the big screen. Nowadays people have home entertainment systems which rival or more often surpass what the local pub can offer. I am not into football but am still surprised when the lads go down the local and have to strain their neck looking up at a cheap plasma when they have bigger, better quality systems at home (at the correct viewing level). And then not even being able to buy their favourite beer.

You mention buckfast, probably inferring it is an inferior quality drink. Well many pubs still have an inexcusably poor selection of beers compared to what I can get in even the most poorly stocked off-licence or supermarket.

Naikon wrote: »

Seriously, you can't expect pubs to be supplied by domestic retailers like Tesco. It's just not a viable practice. End of.

But some pubs are buying from supermarkets, it has come up in consumer issues a few times when people spotted mulitpack bottles. What is stopping them buying from the same place as these offies. I know of a few offies attached to pubs which have very good deals which rival tesco's prices.

People are mentioning supermarkets selling below cost -how do they know this? do they know the price they pay? They say they are selling other products to make up the loss but what about O'Briens and other offies? they often have prices in line or lower than tesco. My local O'Briens had cans of heineken 24 for €25, I doubt this was below cost selling. The local centra had 20 heineken for €15, I know many people who got them, not a single one did any other shopping in the centra -I doubt they were selling below cost.

So why can they not get them from the same supplier. And why not sell cans, in the last year I was in the summit pub in howth and they had cans of heineken, a restaurant in dublin had cans, and a pub in enniscorthy sold cans.

And once again I will mention diceys pub in dublin sell drink below cost.

Naikon wrote: »

I suppose Musgrave should let regular tesco shoppers shop there each week, even though it's not for domestic use?

Most would not bother, musgraves is more expensive for a lot of stuff, it has come up in bargain alerts before.

ardinn wrote: »

The price for a returnable case of heineken not including bottle/case rental is around €35. I CAN prove this to you. That is the supplier price to all publicans.

Obviously not all publicans pay this if some are selling multipack beers. Get some lidl perlenbacher in, its better than most of the muck most pubs are selling, and from what I hear there is nothing to stop you.

Mec-a-nic

p wrote: »

Reform of the licensing laws would rejuvinate the industry and allow new models (that don't just involve encouraging everyone to get plastered) and would be good for everyone in the country, except for existing publicans.

Example 1:- Wine Licence for restaurants - Pub Lobby made sure some onerous toilet facilities were part of the legal requirements.. so extra expensive for this competition to set up.

Example 2:- cafe-bar proposal - completely shot down in 2005 by the Pub lobby - best chance of competition gone. Tourists cannot understand why they can't order a beer with coffee in a cafe just like in every other country in Europe.

Liamario wrote: »

My suggestion:- get the church and the vintners association together for a joint venture. Both venues allow singing, praying, sexual assault and very loud men talking out of their arses.

Thanks for the levity, no-one (publicans, customers) is having a good time in the current situation, so readjustment will have to take place, just like in many other sections of this country.

jackiebaron

ardinn wrote: »

Just so you know it costs €600 per month for a sky subscription for a pub.

I cancelled mine this morning, meaning I will now not be able to offer the sports coverage alot of my customers demand. further reducing patrons, further pushing me towards the door.

So get a laptop, a wifi connection and a VPN link (10 euros a month)
Get a HD lead from laptop to TV and show everything. Fcuk SKY and the cockroach they rode in on.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

This is f**king ridiculous.

I'm already restricted to purchasing alcohol between certain hours because of the VFI. Not all of us work a 9 to 5 job - f**kwits. Grrrr!

Now they want a minimum price? :mad: Why don't they be more pro-active and lobby for a tax/excise cut, which they could then pass on to us poor cosumers.

(Sorry for the rant.)

matrim

jackiebaron wrote: »

So get a laptop, a wifi connection and a VPN link (10 euros a month)
Get a HD lead from laptop to TV and show everything. Fcuk SKY and the cockroach they rode in on.

The problem with that and getting Sky Italia or similar, is that it may be breach of copyright. Sky might not give you hassle if you have a normal sky sub and use that for extra matches, but they would probably say something if you got it as an alternative.

I know there are a couple of pubs with it already (e.g. Murrays) but I'm fairly certain they also have normal sky subs. Plus I have definitely heard of sky threatening pubs in England over using similar setups, although I don't know what happened in the end.

Zebra3

rubadub wrote: »

Get some lidl perlenbacher in, its better than most of the muck most pubs are selling, and from what I hear there is nothing to stop you.

Would defo be in the pub more if this was on sale at €3 a bottle.

It's €6.20 or so for 6 x 0.5l bottles in Lidl.

ardinn

jackiebaron wrote: »

So get a laptop, a wifi connection and a VPN link (10 euros a month)
Get a HD lead from laptop to TV and show everything. Fcuk SKY and the cockroach they rode in on.

I have - Hooked my laptop to a big screen - whats VPN - is it a streaming site?

drdeadlift

Go to the ivyhouse in Drumcondra on a saturday night,a pint of bud will set you back just 5.80 i think its cheaper to drink in town.

thats after half twelve

Pace2008

drdeadlift wrote: »

Go to the ivyhouse in Drumcondra on a saturday night,a pint of bud will set you back just 5.80 i think its cheaper to drink in town.

Really? I only go there on a Thursday, when all pints are €3. It is listed as a cheap night though.

I wouldn’t pay 20c for a keg of Bud, anyway.

Duggy747

drdeadlift wrote: »

Go to the ivyhouse in Drumcondra on a saturday night,a pint of bud will set you back just 5.80 i think its cheaper to drink in town.

I dunno whats worse, that ludricious price or the fact people will pay it.

I remember there was a shìthole in Sligo that had a late license. Once it hit midnight the sneaky fùckers would jack up the price on everything by €1.50.

Some places deserve to be hit hard by this when they took the absolute piss during the "good times". It's funny because I see smaller pubs that sold cheaper drink clean up this time

drdeadlift

Pace2008 wrote: »

Really? I only go there on a Thursday, when all pints are €3. It is listed as a cheap night though.

I wouldn’t pay 20c for a keg of Bud, anyway.

neither would i,i work mon-fri so i dont hit it on Thursday nights.Gas thing is it wasn't very busy the Saturday night.Its not like simon doesnt own the premises.

drdeadlift

Duggy747 wrote: »

I dunno whats worse, that ludricious price or the fact people will pay it.

I remember there was a shìthole in Sligo that had a late license. Once it hit midnight the sneaky fùckers would jack up the price on everything by €1.50.

Some places deserve to be hit hard by this when they took the absolute piss during the "good times". It's funny because I see smaller pubs that sold cheaper drink clean up this time

That Saturday i was there for a mates bday,the day after i told my mates the ivy house was a robbing kip.,they agreed but the very next week they are all back in it.....idiots!!!

Biggins

jackiebaron wrote: »

So get a laptop, a wifi connection and a VPN link (10 euros a month)
Get a HD lead from laptop to TV and show everything. Fcuk SKY and the cockroach they rode in on.

Unfortunately as regards Sky being shown in pubs, you have to have a special card (in others words you have to pay up more to sky).
Absence of this right card and/or connection to Sky Sport is obvious.
All official Sky Sports broadcasts for pubs should have a small beer glass icon/logo in any one of corner display screens.

Should anyone from the IMRO or other licensing bodies/sky reps walk in and see a wrong broadcast display, they will hang you quicker than you can get out your cheque book - which sooner than later you will have to do anyway in possible remuneration penalties.
...And thats besides maybe your local nearest pub owner (in competition with you) maybe hanging you out to dry too!

If your local bar is not showing the beer glass logo in a TV screen bottom corner, he/she are using the standard "at home" Sky card.

garv123

the pub i work in in the village is closing sunday. a sign went up saturday night and this is how the staff were informed too. the pub is open over 100 years and was always booming. but then a new fella took it over who was a complete boll** and drove too many regulars away from the pub. i know the recession had something to do with it but alot of the people are drinking else where and pubs in other villages are befitting because of him. its also 4.30 for a pint or bottle. cider is 4.70 a bottle. the pub in the next village is doing 3 pints for a 10er and he wonders why people arent sticking around where there just getting expensive drink and abuse off him

Dwaegon

Biggins wrote: »

Unfortunately as regards Sky being shown in pubs, you have to have a special card (in others words you have to pay up more to sky).
Absence of this right card and/or connection to Sky Sport is obvious.
All official Sky Sports broadcasts for pubs should have a small beer glass icon/logo in any one of corner display screens.

Should anyone from the IMRO or other licensing bodies/sky reps walk in and see a wrong broadcast display, they will hang you quicker than you can get out your cheque book - which sooner than later you will have to do anyway in possible remuneration penalties.
...And thats besides maybe your local nearest pub owner (in competition with you) maybe hanging you out to dry too!

If your local bar is not showing the beer glass logo in a TV screen bottom corner, he/she are using the standard "at home" Sky card.

*Begins printing logo stickers* Alright lads, tenner each!

drdeadlift

Biggins wrote: »

Unfortunately as regards Sky being shown in pubs, you have to have a special card (in others words you have to pay up more to sky).
Absence of this right card and/or connection to Sky Sport is obvious.
All official Sky Sports broadcasts for pubs should have a small beer glass icon/logo in any one of corner display screens.

Should anyone from the IMRO or other licensing bodies/sky reps walk in and see a wrong broadcast display, they will hang you quicker than you can get out your cheque book - which sooner than later you will have to do anyway in possible remuneration penalties.
...And thats besides maybe your local nearest pub owner (in competition with you) maybe hanging you out to dry too!

If your local bar is not showing the beer glass logo in a TV screen bottom corner, he/she are using the standard "at home" Sky card.

fair play to em

mikemac

Have a beer with your pizza instead of a pizza with your beer

It's a pretty clever statement when you think about it, easy knowing a barrister came up with it

I was sad to see that cafe bar idea shot down by the publican party, it was one of McDowell's better moments

Maybe one day someone will try again. Or more likely, maybe not

Biggins

drdeadlift wrote: »

fair play to em

O' aye, if they can get away with it. Sky prices alone are rip-off I feel.
(But thats whole other topic)

Micky Dolenz

Fair play lads, ye keep the thing going, long into the night, maybe we should meet in a pub some night :P

Biggins wrote: »

Unfortunately as regards Sky being shown in pubs, you have to have a special card (in others words you have to pay up more to sky).
Absence of this right card and/or connection to Sky Sport is obvious.
All official Sky Sports broadcasts for pubs should have a small beer glass icon/logo in any one of corner display screens.

Should anyone from the IMRO or other licensing bodies/sky reps walk in and see a wrong broadcast display, they will hang you quicker than you can get out your cheque book - which sooner than later you will have to do anyway in possible remuneration penalties.
...And thats besides maybe your local nearest pub owner (in competition with you) maybe hanging you out to dry too!

If your local bar is not showing the beer glass logo in a TV screen bottom corner, he/she are using the standard "at home" Sky card.

Dwaegon wrote: »

*Begins printing logo stickers* Alright lads, tenner each!

No doubt that is being done some places.

RockinRolla

There is seriously something wrong with this country - what happened to free trade? If we lose this, then all is lost.

That's a capitalistic society for you - when there is a demand for a product or service, it will grow and prosper....if there isnt anymore, it will die and a new service will replace it. It's called evolving. If society are not interested in going to pubs anymore, then so be it, let them go gracefully...

Why must Fianna Fail involve itself in everything?!?

Biggins

RockinRolla wrote: »

...Why must Fianna Fail involve itself in everything?!?

Nature of the beast - and what it might gain from it!

mikemac

The article is on the VFI

As I understand it the LVA represents pubs in Dublin. Has there been a similar proposal from the LVA? I may have missed it

As a lot of the posts on this thread are on pubs in Dublin. And it may not even apply to them. Though not doubt the VFI and LVA will copy each other

Jimmy Garlic

garv123 wrote: »

he wonders why people arent sticking around where there just getting expensive drink and abuse off him

What sort of abuse?.

Grassroots_FF

We need minimum prices on off license beer and wine to get people back in the pubs. The Vintners are a crucial part of our economy and the pub trade attracts tourists. Thousands of people rely on publicans for employment and we should support them and rally around them. Usually publicans are fine upstanding members of the community.