The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

jackiebaron

Deleted User wrote: »

Do any cinemas or restaurants provide smoking areas?

Dunno. Generally people don't spend an entire day or night in the cinema or restaurant. They generally leave once the meal/movie is over. Anyway, this is irrelevant. I'm not clamouring for the smoking ban to be lifted. I couldn't care less. But I'll reiterate that I won't be going to any pubs where I have to stand outside so if the landlords are bitching about lost trade due to high prices and cheap offie booze....I'm going to add to their pain by not going to the taverns that don't have a heated beer garden. They can put that in their pipe and "smoke" it.

Dionysus

kfallon wrote: »

I would say you are the minority, not the majority :rolleyes:

So, you've really been brainwashed into believing that the majority of people in Ireland are interested in soccer?

Suggestion: get rid of Sky, or even the tv.

RichieC

*big sad face for them*

Really, my heart breaks..

Degag

jackiebaron wrote: »

Dunno. Generally people don't spend an entire day or night in the cinema or restaurant. They generally leave once the meal/movie is over. Anyway, this is irrelevant. I'm not clamouring for the smoking ban to be lifted. I couldn't care less. But I'll reiterate that I won't be going to any pubs where I have to stand outside so if the landlords are bitching about lost trade due to high prices and cheap offie booze....I'm going to add to their pain by not going to the taverns that don't have a heated beer garden. They can put that in their pipe and "smoke" it.

Most beer gardens are actually illegal. We had one and the health officers told us at least 50% of it had to be in the open.

Idbatterim

could they not start giving out cans and a pint glass? the only reason I go to the pub is the social aspect, the pints of heineken / coors etc are hardly amazing. I think anywhere that badly needs trade, if they stopped charging in before say 12, dont charge for bottle of coke etc, give a splash. Charge less for the cordials etc for those that are not drinking. If people get value for money now, they will still buy. Its a pity that there arent pub chains here.

fonecrusher1

pawrick wrote: »

Tourist numbers are down each year, prices go up and up. Ask any tourist coming over to Ireland for a weekend break what they think of the place. Most will call in to temple bar for a look around and a pint - after the price gouging they see there they never come back to Ireland and tell their friends to avoid the country.

Thats because they've ripped people off for years & now they're finally getting the kick up the hole they deserve. I mean the tourism industry in general. Which of course the pubs are a huge part of.

Go to any popular coastal town in the southwest clonakilty, kinsale, baltimore, dingle. They are feckin expensive little places to visit for a few days. Expensive drink, food & accommodation. Its tough sh!t if they're losing business by the busload. Times have changed as should their pricing. Adapt or close.

Dwaegon

kfallon wrote: »

I would say you are the minority, not the majority :rolleyes:

Doubt it! Most people I know have little or no interest in football, and I agree that it would turn me off being in a pub.

These days you can't even enjoy watching a sport like rugby or GAA sports on tv in a pub without having club football from another country blaring on the biggest tv, and that's even if they have another tv at all.

I was in a pub in the city centre (Dublin) a few weeks back and there were two tvs with some random english football teams match, I asked the barman could he put one onto the magners league when Leinster were playing, and he refused to change it. Never going back there I tell ya!

Paparazzo

matrim wrote: »

What annoys me most about pubs is the price of non-alcoholic drinks. I went out yesterday morning to watch a match. I got a pint of rock shandy which was 5.40, a pint of Heineken in the same place is 4.95. How can they justify the mineral being 45c dearer when there are no taxes / duties on them?

I didn't even want a pint of beer but ended up having one instead of a second rock shandy because it was cheaper.

Same thing happened me. If a pub is serious about attracting customers the first thing they should do is get rid of those rip off little bottles and get in cans or that gun thing that English pubs have. The little bottles are usually stored on a shelf too, so they're not even cold.

Degag

Dionysus wrote: »

So, you've really been brainwashed into believing that the majority of people in Ireland are interested in soccer?

Suggestion: get rid of Sky, or even the tv.

Ya know, i'd agree with you for different reasons though. Sky are a pack of scoundrels. This year, they increased the rates for pubs by about 20% - while reducing the ammount of channels they got! Their reply when the vintners campaigned against it: "We have more pub subscribers in Birmingham than in the whole of Ireland, Tough shít*"


*May not have said "Tough shít"

ardinn

Idbatterim wrote: »

could they not start giving out cans and a pint glass? the only reason I go to the pub is the social aspect, the pints of heineken / coors etc are hardly amazing. I think anywhere that badly needs trade, if they stopped charging in before say 12, dont charge for bottle of coke etc, give a splash. Charge less for the cordials etc for those that are not drinking. If people get value for money now, they will still buy. Its a pity that there arent pub chains here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055930309

oppenheimer1

Degag wrote: »

Of course there is tax on minerals. Also, you had a pint of beer when you didn't want it for the sake of 45c? Imean you were paying almost a fiver anyway, what difference did the extra few cent make? I agree with minerals being too expensive though.


Very roughly - 50/50.

I think he meant that theres no excise on soft drinks. Of course its ridiculous that soft drinks are priced more expensively than Alcohol. There is no justification for it - just gouging or encouraging people to drink alcohol, because people will buy more when they're drunk. Someone on soft drinks generally won't buy that much as too more than two 7-ups in the one night will leave you feeling sickly.

Joey the lips

TBH i think this is the greatest load of tripe i have heard. I dont care what stats they provide i believe its just clever marketing.

The pub trade is dying because we are broke. People just dont have the money to go out. Beer may be cheaper but I dont drink any more or less.

Raiseing the cost of beer will only effect my pocket it will not save a pubs.


If i were 21 and dateing i would not stay at home in me ma;s or her ma;s to drink cheap bear I would take her out to a pub and have a laugh and a dance with her.

However I am now 41. I cannot get babysitters much and i dont drink as much so i sit at home on a friday or saturday and drink cheap beer because its all the money i want to spend.

ardinn

Degag wrote: »

Ya know, i'd agree with you for different reasons though. Sky are a pack of scoundrels. This year, they increased the rates for pubs by about 20% - while reducing the ammount of channels they got! Their reply when the vintners campaigned against it: "We have more pub subscribers in Birmingham than in the whole of Ireland, Tough shít*"


*May not have said "Tough shít"

Just so you know it costs €600 per month for a sky subscription for a pub.

I cancelled mine this morning, meaning I will now not be able to offer the sports coverage alot of my customers demand. further reducing patrons, further pushing me towards the door.

Wagon

fontanalis wrote: »

True, but people were also willing to go to over priced glorified marts to pour it down their neck. Regarding the pub trade shrinking, what I'd love to see is the "yuppy/mutton dressed up as lamb" bars disappearing.

They aren't pubs. Those are "bars". Often dreadful places.

I love the pub. There's a lovely local near me called the Halfway House. They get the business because they serve great food, have an excellent service, heated smoking area, don't play the music too loud and the staff are some of the nicest I've ever come across. They also do various little things like pub quizzes, competitions and raffles on some nights. Booze isn't at an extortionate price either and yet, unlike these ****ty "bars", you can see where your money goes.

I'd love to see those greedy yuppie gaffs die out and I have no sympathy for any of them.

aidan24326

I'd agree that pubs have way too many TVs these days, and it's nothing but soccer soccer soccer on all of them. Now I watch soccer myself, up to a point, but I don't get the obsession with saturation coverage of soccer on about 3 million tellys in alot of pubs now, especially in Dublin.

Ask them to put a GAA or rugby match on and you'd be lucky, West Brom v Wigan is coming on you see and obviously the whole place wants to see that.

ardinn

starbelgrade wrote: »

Below cost selling is of great benefit to consumers as it helps creates competition in the marketplace & reduces the incentive for sellers to participate in price fixing.

Maybe the pubs should try it & see.

I really dislike protectionism practices - if an industry, which is not of any essential benefit or need to the country, cannot stand on it's own two feet, then it should be allowed to fail.

This of course, will never happen with the pub industry as those who are more competitive, provide better prices & customer service will still survive.

That is the single most moronic thing ive heard in a while

Why dont we sell cars / clothes / food / and everything else for a loss

Sure wouldnt everyone be grand - sure we would need loadsa staff to make all the cars and clothes and serve the pints and everyone would manke a fortune......



Oh wait!!

cbyrd

Joey the lips wrote: »

TBH i think this is the greatest load of tripe i have heard. I dont care what stats they provide i believe its just clever marketing.

The pub trade is dying because we are broke. People just dont have the money to go out. Beer may be cheaper but I dont drink any more or less.

Raiseing the cost of beer will only effect my pocket it will not save a pubs.


If i were 21 and dateing i would not stay at home in me ma;s or her ma;s to drink cheap bear I would take her out to a pub and have a laugh and a dance with her.

However I am now 41. I cannot get babysitters much and i dont drink as much so i sit at home on a friday or saturday and drink cheap beer because its all the money i want to spend.

Agree completely.. the only ones really able to afford to drink in pubs 1 or 2 nights a week are those with no morgage kids or big loans.. When i was 18 - 24 i was out 3 nights a weekend.. i went home most nights fairly pisséd cos i had a job and no bills... i drank bandy and coke.. one bottle of coke did 5 drinks and a brandy was between €1.80 and €2.20 depending on the pub or club i was in.. some pubs gave you a mixer free from a big bottle.. I might spend €20 on a night out...I went out the night before new years eve and i spent €120 i had 7 drinks and a shot and paid into a night club.. i couldn't do that every week i'd be homeless
It's just not worth the money for the sore head,

Agent J

ardinn wrote: »

That is the single most moronic thing ive heard in a while

Why dont we sell cars / clothes / food / and everything else for a loss

Sure wouldnt everyone be grand - sure we would need loadsa staff to make all the cars and clothes and serve the pints and everyone would manke a fortune......



Oh wait!!

Em. Look up the term "Loss Leader"

ardinn

Agent J wrote: »

Em. Look up the term "Loss Leader"

Yes but what exactly do pubs sell???

If your loss leader is your only product then you are a "loss maker"

Look up "economics"

Soby

noodler wrote: »

We arguably have too many pubs in this country as it is.

Anyway, we have been complaining about pub prices for years and its a joke.

In my local I can at least get change out of a fiver for a pint these days but still.

Which should lead to pubs lowering prices to gain a competitive edge

opinion guy

starbelgrade wrote: »

Below cost selling is of great benefit to consumers as it helps creates competition in the marketplace & reduces the incentive for sellers to participate in price fixing.

Maybe the pubs should try it & see.

I really dislike protectionism practices - if an industry, which is not of any essential benefit or need to the country, cannot stand on it's own two feet, then it should be allowed to fail.

This of course, will never happen with the pub industry as those who are more competitive, provide better prices & customer service will still survive.

Yeah ....just like the banks did.....oh....wait.......cue Charleston Heston like breakdown as Opinion Guy falls to his knees and pounds the Earth with his fists...

You MANIACS!!!! You did it didn't you!!!! You pressed the ecomonic nuclear button!!!!

ardinn

Soby wrote: »

Which should lead to pubs lowering prices to gain a competitive edge

Some pubs do, but the risk is great as the margins are far too small to be able to sustain it over periods.

Here's a tip publicans, lower your prices !

I see a pub in Galway that sells pints of Guinness at €3 a pint and glasses of wine for the same, and have been doing for the last year or more.

Go around the corner and you pay €9/10 for the same round.

I have no sympathy for rip off publicans tbh.

Degag

ardinn wrote: »

Just so you know it costs €600 per month for a sky subscription for a pub.

I cancelled mine this morning, meaning I will now not be able to offer the sports coverage alot of my customers demand. further reducing patrons, further pushing me towards the door.

I know how much it costs. I thought that was evident from my post.

mikom

My heart goes out to them.
*fart sound*

snubbleste

Why has the Competition Authority not investigated the move last year by the VFI to 'freeze' prices?

Must look up the word Cartel

kfallon

Dwaegon wrote: »

I asked the barman could he put one onto the magners league when Leinster were playing, and he refused to change it. Never going back there I tell ya!

There are a lot more football lovers than rugby followers in this country!
Majority of Rugby fans think we only started playing the sport about 7-8 years ago :rolleyes:

Most of them wouldn't even know this guy from Adam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc2VZb1Fm2g

aidan24326

Agent J wrote: »

Em. Look up the term "Loss Leader"

Hardly relevant to a pub to be fair, as they mainly only sell alcohol, with maybe a bit of pub food in some of them. Supermarkets can sell alcohol as a loss leader to lure you in so you'll do your other shopping while you're there, food, toiletries, household products and other items. Pubs don't have that option.

ardinn

rarnes1 wrote: »

Here's a tip publicans, lower your prices !

I see a pub in Galway that sells pints of Guinness at €3 a pint and glasses of wine for the same, and have been doing for the last year or more.

Go around the corner and you pay €9/10 for the same round.

I have no sympathy for rip off publicans tbh.

Is that pub paying rent / mortgage etc/etc has it been refurbished recently? I do agree that guinness at €3 is great value - but other pubs and clubs have spent millions on layouts, lighting/sound/vision (general entertainment for guests) - what im saying is you generally get what you pay for. - Maybe the €3 pint pub is a complete superpub - im speaking in general.

ardinn

snubbleste wrote: »

Why has the Competition Authority not investigated the move last year by the VFI to 'freeze' prices?

Must look up the word Cartel

Why has snubbleste not read the whole thread?

Must look up the term TL;DR

Bogsnorkler

You'd assume that prices will fall, those who can't drop their prices due to high rent or other fixed costs will fail. That's the free market and i'm not ever going to apologise for spending my money where is gets the best value.

bookie basher

ripped off the country for years & just like the car trade there now getting their comeuppance

starbelgrade

ardinn wrote: »

That is the single most moronic thing ive heard in a while

Why dont we sell cars / clothes / food / and everything else for a loss

Sure wouldnt everyone be grand - sure we would need loadsa staff to make all the cars and clothes and serve the pints and everyone would manke a fortune......



Oh wait!!

Moronic?

How do you think airlines such as Ryanair have such big turnovers? Do you really think that a 2p flight to the UK is the real cost of the seat? Would you call Michael O'Leary an idiot or a good businessman?

And why do you think we got rid of the Groceries Bill in Ireland?

As I said before, below cost selling is of huge benefit to the customer. You may not like the idea, because you haven't the intellectual or business capability to use that to your own advantage in your business, but that does not make it a moronic concept, just one that you have failed to understand.

Dwaegon

kfallon wrote: »

There are a lot more football lovers than rugby followers in this country!

I don't think so. I believe that the pubs attitude towards football has created a pub-regular society that merely puts up with it as it is the accepted norm in this country.

People in this country just hop on the football bandwagon as an excuse to get pissed. At least support a sport people in this country can actually play well...

Cianos

Our tourist industry is dependent on a good pub culture. But the yuppie bars aren't why people come here, and when it comes to local punters, are usually the most empty and soulless in any case.

The pubs that don't have sky news on mute on every empty wall, have good music and a bit of charm and character to them don't need to compete with the supermarkets, because people go to them for reasons other than to just get drunk.

The Harbour bar in Bray for example, I was down there for the first time in ages on Christmas eve and the owner who I barely know said the couple of drinks I ordered were on him. Can't compete with that :pac:

Dyr

Funny things is..I went to my local for the first time in years this weekend. The guinness was mediocre, I had to listen to some g**bags wailing over a karaoke machine trying to compete with the f**kin tellys on every wall. Of course we were kicked out at 12:30. I'd suggested we would have been better off staying in with a few beers (would'nt have happened of course, thanks to fianna fail, the publican party shafting the off licenses.)

I'm a fan of pubs, but they've lost the run of themselves, too many vitners who thought that it was a license to print money without having to put much effort in. Apparently a generation ago, there was a tradition of people socialising in each other houses. Hopefully that might see a resurgence.:)

mahamageehad

starbelgrade wrote: »

Moronic?

How do you think airlines such as Ryanair have such big turnovers? Do you really think that a 2p flight to the UK is the real cost of the seat? Would you call Michael O'Leary an idiot or a good businessman?

And why do you think we got rid of the Groceries Bill in Ireland?

As I said before, below cost selling is of huge benefit to the customer. You may not like the idea, because you haven't the intellectual or business capability to use that to your own advantage in your business, but that does not make it a moronic concept, just one that you have failed to understand.

To be fair the only reason that ryanair can afford to sell such cheap flights is because they add ridiculous charges- €6 for online check in and no other option! €5 administration charge for using for credit card! And they absolutely rape you on name change fees (€100) and last minute flights!!! It's completely different to pubs- they can't say if you order in advance it's €4 but you waited till the last minute so it's €12.

I don't think anyone is really expecting the pubs to sell for less than cost price but i'm sure the profit margins could be reduced significantly.

mahamageehad

Dwaegon wrote: »

I don't think so. I believe that the pubs attitude towards football has created a pub-regular society that merely puts up with it as it is the accepted norm in this country.

People in this country just hop on the football bandwagon as an excuse to get pissed. At least support a sport people in this country can actually play well...

I thought that we were the only country that played football???

Zebra3

Things that piss me off about pubs.

• Prices going up during the night-is this legal?
  
• Tv noise-be it sport or the news or whatever.
  
• Some bloke hanging around the jacks to keep it clean/selling a squirt of aftershave. Fuck off.
  
• Poor selection of beers-sometimes having a bottle of German beer would be nice. :rolleyes:

kfallon

Dwaegon wrote: »

I don't think so. I believe that the pubs attitude towards football has created a pub-regular society that merely puts up with it as it is the accepted norm in this country.

I would put it to you that more people in this country play football (5 a side or 11 a side) each day/week than rugby, explain that if there are more rugby lovers!

aidan24326

starbelgrade wrote: »

Moronic?

How do you think airlines such as Ryanair have such big turnovers? Do you really think that a 2p flight to the UK is the real cost of the seat? Would you call Michael O'Leary an idiot or a good businessman?

I don't think you're comparing like with like.

Ryanair will sell the first x number of seats at a loss yes, then the next block of seats go at a higher price, and so on until the people who book at short notice are paying high prices for any remaining seats on the flight. In effect the latecomers paying high prices are subsidisng the losses on the cheap seats.

That works well for an airline, but I'm not sure how you could adapt that sort of business model to a pub. (though I'd agree that pubs in general could be a bit more imaginative in how they do business).

starbelgrade

mahamageehad wrote: »

To be fair the only reason that ryanair can afford to sell such cheap flights is because they add ridiculous charges- €6 for online check in and no other option! €5 administration charge for using for credit card! And they absolutely rape you on name change fees (€100) and last minute flights!!! It's completely different to pubs- they can't say if you order in advance it's €4 but you waited till the last minute so it's €12.

I don't think anyone is really expecting the pubs to sell for less than cost price but i'm sure the profit margins could be reduced significantly.

I agree with you.

However, as the VFI are calling for the abolishment of below cost selling of alcohol by supermarkets, my point was that below cost selling is a good thing for both the consumer & competition in the market place.

I wasn't suggesting that pubs should follow the same business model as Ryanair, but that in order to survive, they need to address their own business models - the lazy way to do this is through some form of protectionism, which they are looking for - rather than doing something proactive about it, which they are clearly not.

poppyvalley

poppyvalley wrote: »

What about all the publicans who buy loads of booze in the supermarket!! then sell it in their premises at 3 or 4 times what they paid for it, plus there is no paper trail for the taxman to follow. The black economy at its best! as it's always been

Most supermarkets have quotas on how much beer you can buy to prevent this. We once had a publican in looking for a pallet of miller when it was reduced. Told him no chance and he went into rage! He rang up the shop again an hour later threatening all sorts. Muppet.

ardinn

starbelgrade wrote: »

Moronic?

How do you think airlines such as Ryanair have such big turnovers? Do you really think that a 2p flight to the UK is the real cost of the seat? Would you call Michael O'Leary an idiot or a good businessman?

And why do you think we got rid of the Groceries Bill in Ireland?

As I said before, below cost selling is of huge benefit to the customer. You may not like the idea, because you haven't the intellectual or business capability to use that to your own advantage in your business, but that does not make it a moronic concept, just one that you have failed to understand.

Airlines such as ryan air charge minimally lower prices than other airlines and do away with the frills like proper maintenance and the like* they charge heavily for last minute flights and then use those profits to subsidise other cheap flights to enforce the belief that they are always cheap.

They also utilise advertising and other media forms to support the business, BTW how much is a drink on a ryanair flight???

"As I said before, below cost selling is of huge benefit to the customer"
Yes it is - but it isnt very much good to the business owner who employs you is it?

We got rid of the groceries bill in ireland during a time when nobody cared of the consequences to small business as everyone was doing well. The groceries bill as a direct result is closing shops and newsagents at such a pace that soon you will have no option other than to go to tesco or wherever get some bread or milk etc.

I have plenty of capabilities, both intellectual and in business. but refuse to agree that pubs which sell alcohol would do better selling it below cost.

Maybe im missing something tho! I could be completely wrong and the actual way to make money is to buy something for €1 and sell it for .50c...

Actually sorry - that IS how its done - my apologies - Im off to make a fortune!!!!!

*joke

Dwaegon

kfallon wrote: »

I would put it to you that more people in this country play football (5 a side or 11 a side) each day/week than rugby, explain that if there are more rugby lovers!

Stats please!

ardinn

Degag wrote: »

I know how much it costs. I thought that was evident from my post.

It wasnt directly aimed at you. Just for all to see. I wasnt having a pop.

rossie1977

its only when you get out of ireland do you realise how much we are getting ripped off here, in fussen a very touristy town in southern germany you can get high quality weissbier for €2.80 a pint in top hotels, in touristy bars in prague a pint of czech beer will set you back €1.25, much cheaper again in non-tourist places in the south of the city, in orlando across the road from univeral studios the ale house has pints of the usual american beer such as miller, coors etc for $2

what the republic really needs is the introduction of chains like wetherspoons city centre pubs in belfast haven't moaned and complained despite one competing with them, one or two in temple bar, another one on camden street, one or two down shop street in galway and in limerick/cork/waterford etc and you would soon see prices dropping in ordinary pubs i bet

starbelgrade

Deleted User wrote: »

Most supermarkets have quotas on how much beer you can buy to prevent this. We once had a publican in looking for a pallet of miller when it was reduced. Told him no chance and he went into rage! He rang up the shop again an hour later threatening all sorts. Muppet.

I don't agree with supermarkets being allowed to stipulate the limits on how much items of below cost goods can be put on a customer.

Supermarkets have huge bargaining power with suppliers & larger profit margins to play around with & as such, can easily put small traders out of business.

The only reason they put limits on purchases is to do exactly this - to put small traders out of business. And this, in the long term, has the opposite effect of creating competition.

amacachi

starbelgrade wrote: »

There is no doubt that the below cost selling practices of the supermarkets has affected the pub trade. So it is not quite as simple as saying that the pubs only have themselves to blame, as there are other external factors over which they have no control.

What is the cost to the supermarket for a can though? I can't find the rate handy at the moment but before the ban on below-cost selling was lifted a few years ago there were cans knocking around at 75c each.

Bogsnorkler

ardinn wrote: »

"As I said before, below cost selling is of huge benefit to the customer"
Yes it is - but it isnt very much good to the business owner who employs you is it?

Its not my problem if you get out competed by pubs that can afford to charge less.

Lower prices benefits the consumer and imo would be a further step in reducing living costs in this country