The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

jackiebaron

Deleted User wrote: »

The only pub I frequent lately is a quiet old man's pub in Galway city, where I go with friends to sit down, have one or two drinks and have a decent chat. There's very few places where you can actively do this, without having to roar over the music.

@jackiebaron - I genuinely hope you're not being serious about 9euro.

It was a pint and a half, babm....still expensive I think.

fonecrusher1

I find it difficult to justify going to my local for a few pints. Its just too much money for very little return. 4.50 euro per pint. Couple of pints & your talking the guts of 20 quid.
And my local is a dullish standard suburban pub, its not exactly rockin. Its just not value for money.

When the sh!t hit the fan a few years ago & many peoples circumstances changed the first luxury that was dropped straight away was drinking in pubs. Its just too expensive.

jackiebaron

jackiebaron wrote: »

And even though I like the pub I will not set foot in one now that doesn't have a heated beer garden for smokers complete with telly, music, whatever.
I'll be damned if I'm going to drink in an establishment where I have to stand outside like a hobo to have a smoke.

So you won't go to a restaurant, or cinema, or shopping centre because you have to go outside to smoke, or is it just a pub?

The Christmas Market in Galway was doing a litre of beer for a tenner. It was delicious too.

matrim

What annoys me most about pubs is the price of non-alcoholic drinks. I went out yesterday morning to watch a match. I got a pint of rock shandy which was 5.40, a pint of Heineken in the same place is 4.95. How can they justify the mineral being 45c dearer when there are no taxes / duties on them?

I didn't even want a pint of beer but ended up having one instead of a second rock shandy because it was cheaper.

oppenheimer1

ardinn wrote: »

A cartell? - Get real - They tried to introduce a ban on publicans putting prices up - then the competition authority accused them of price fixing! And when you have supermarkets doing what they are doing how is that fair competition? The price freeze came at a time when we were in deflation - but energy / insurance / rates / etc /etc /etc remained the same - Do you think diageo put their prices down during all this??? A fair and reasonable gesture was twisted by the CA and the media to further ridicule the vfi and the publican. And the public lapped it up.

If it was a fair and reasonable gesture the VFI would have introduced a price ceiling, but allowed publicans to drop their prices if they saw fit. Instead they introduced a price freeze in order to prevent deflation and competition eroding their margins, and then they had the nerve to sell the idea to us as being pro-consumer! Although I've never had much time for the VFI, this single act has completely poisoned my view of them.

Sulmac

Well since our minimum price for tobacco infringes EU law, I doubt a minimum price for alcohol wouldn't.

ardinn

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

The pub trade is dying because pubs are ****, the staff are normally rude as all hell, they overprice on just about everything and the Vintners Association had too much power for too long and now doesn't have a clue what to do in post Boom Ireland where your former power doesn't mean ****.

What POWER do you speak of - The VFI have had no power ever really - what change have they brought to the trade that has come about by their infinate "POWER" I seem to recall legislation - which came into force at the height of the CT years that prohibited smoking - They tried and failed to stop it's implementation! Some POWER there.

There has been infinate numbers of laws and legislation passed that the VFI has tried yet failed to stop / bring in, for the good of the trade.

Horse_box

If a pub is buying bottles of Heineken in bulk, at say 70 cent a bottle and selling them at 4quid, they're making 3.30 gross profit. Does anyone know, even roughly, how much of that 3.30 is going to the taxman and how much is going to the publican?

bmarley

Sure who needs the pub??They're boring, dreary places at the best of times...much prefer to have a drink in the comfort of my own home...and the check to charge 2 euro for a game of pool when no other entertainment is on offer.

jackiebaron

Deleted User wrote: »

So you won't go to a restaurant, or cinema, or shopping centre because you have to go outside to smoke, or is it just a pub?

The Christmas Market in Galway was doing a litre of beer for a tenner. It was delicious too.

I will go to a restaurant. I don't smoke when I'm eating. I do however smoke when I'm drinking. Sure, people don't want the likes of scum like me in their pub smoking a ciggy but I appreciate the gesture of those landlords who try to accomodate me as best they can within the realm of the law. Incidentally I never smoked in the cinema even when it was legal.

strokemyclover

Geldof & Co. will be out in force to generate interest in the masses of starving pub landlords across the country, I'm sure!

Do any cinemas or restaurants provide smoking areas?

Dionysus

Deleted User wrote: »

The only pub I frequent lately is a quiet old man's pub in Galway city, where I go with friends to sit down, have one or two drinks and have a decent chat. There's very few places where you can actively do this, without having to roar over the music.

I agree entirely about the obnoxiously invasive noise level in the average Irish pub. But I'd add my own bête noire: soccer on the tv. Nothing has turned me off pubs as much as the fact that it's near impossible to find a pub on an evening for a quiet chat whenever there's some British soccer match on. For refusing to facilitate the vast majority of this country which has no interest in soccer, the publicans concerned deserve to be out of business. No sympathy, none whatever.


* Pubs without tv, like Grogan's and The Gravediggers, are excepted from above rant.

pawrick

Tourist numbers are down each year, prices go up and up. Ask any tourist coming over to Ireland for a weekend break what they think of the place. Most will call in to temple bar for a look around and a pint - after the price gouging they see there they never come back to Ireland and tell their friends to avoid the country.

kfallon

Dionysus wrote: »

For refusing to facilitate the vast majority of this country which has no interest in soccer, the publicans concerned deserve to be out of business.

I would say you are the minority, not the majority :rolleyes:

ardinn

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If it was a fair and reasonable gesture the VFI would have introduced a price ceiling, but allowed publicans to drop their prices if they saw fit. Instead they introduced a price freeze in order to prevent deflation and competition eroding their margins, and then they had the nerve to sell the idea to us as being pro-consumer! Although I've never had much time for the VFI, this single act has completely poisoned my view of them.

That could not have happened for a few reasons.

1: Publicans across the country have different price ranges - for many reasons, such as a new development or adding a function room/lounge/restaurant, you have to pay the bank at the end of the day so generally you'll find pricing in pubs comparative to their services.

2: Some pubs have been the same for years - no mortgages etc: you'll find them cheaper!

3: Location - Pubs in city centres have to deal with city rates, city wages, higher costs generally - thats why their dearer.

So if you introduce a "ceiling" then that could be (for arguments sake) €5 a pint to acommodate everyone when most pubs outside of dublin are less than €4 a pint.

There is no way a ceiling could have been done - A freeze at the individual publicans price was the fairest way - AND IT DID NOT INCLUDE PUBLICANS BEING ABLE TO LOWER THEIR PRICES - If they wanted to they could - the message that was meant to be sent out was that they would not put prices up. This got lost in all the CA media hype that they sought.

dsmythy

Gavin shels wrote: »

If they want it introduced they should really have a max price for alcohol in pubs/clubs, some places charge shockingly over-priced drinks and well they'd most likely be the ones to fail.

aidan24326 wrote: »

That makes two of us. As you said they were among the biggest rip-off merchants around during the boom years, so tough sh1t guys. If the supermarkets are hitting their business, too bad, it's called competition. Cut their costs and bring prices down like every other business is having to do, and then, maybe just then the customers will return.

To be fair some pubs have cut prices, introduced special offers, cheap drinks etc, but some of them seem to have ignored the fact we're in a deep recession and are just carrying on like it was still 2005. Those pubs deserve to go out of business.

Exactly. The pub trade is dwindling but it's those who are the smartest who will survive.

ardinn

matrim wrote: »

What annoys me most about pubs is the price of non-alcoholic drinks. I went out yesterday morning to watch a match. I got a pint of rock shandy which was 5.40, a pint of Heineken in the same place is 4.95. How can they justify the mineral being 45c dearer when there are no taxes / duties on them?

I didn't even want a pint of beer but ended up having one instead of a second rock shandy because it was cheaper.

There is tax on them and you got 2 minerals :rolleyes:

aidan24326

jackiebaron wrote: »

I bought a pint and a half of Heineken in Temple Bar this Christmas. It cost 9 Euros. I bought a pint and a glass of dry white in that pub across the road from O'Donaghues near Merrion Square. Cost: 11 Euros. Price of a pint and a half in the Bloody Stream in Howth was less than 7 euros. Why the big disparity?

To be fair the rents in a place like Temple Bar or Merrion Square would be higher, for Temple Bar probably alot higher.

If rents are the issue to be tackled then that's what should be done. I don't see how landlords could get away with charging the same rent as they were 3 years ago.

Somebody told me recently that during the boom years Grafton St. was the fifth most expensive place in the world to rent retail space. Crazy as it sounds it wouldn't surprise me if that was true.

starviewadams wrote: »

Bollox to minimum price!The pubs have already managed to decrease off-license opening hours(under the imaginitive guise of protecting the children!) in order to force people into pubs and now they want to charge a captive audience more money,they can fúck right off.

That was the moment I realised that this government views the people of the country with utter contempt, as that was surely the most completely ridiculous excuse for a change of law in the history of the legal system. They obviously think we're all fcuking stupid.

Horse_box wrote: »

If a pub is buying bottles of Heineken in bulk, at say 70 cent a bottle and selling them at 4quid, they're making 3.30 gross profit. Does anyone know, even roughly, how much of that 3.30 is going to the taxman and how much is going to the publican?

Not sure of the exact figure but I do know the tax is high. If you pay a fiver for a pint you can expect that about 2 euro of that is straight to Mr.Taxman.

Degag

matrim wrote: »

What annoys me most about pubs is the price of non-alcoholic drinks. I went out yesterday morning to watch a match. I got a pint of rock shandy which was 5.40, a pint of Heineken in the same place is 4.95. How can they justify the mineral being 45c dearer when there are no taxes / duties on them?

I didn't even want a pint of beer but ended up having one instead of a second rock shandy because it was cheaper.

Of course there is tax on minerals. Also, you had a pint of beer when you didn't want it for the sake of 45c? Imean you were paying almost a fiver anyway, what difference did the extra few cent make? I agree with minerals being too expensive though.

Horse_box wrote: »

If a pub is buying bottles of Heineken in bulk, at say 70 cent a bottle and selling them at 4quid, they're making 3.30 gross profit. Does anyone know, even roughly, how much of that 3.30 is going to the taxman and how much is going to the publican?

Very roughly - 50/50.

jackiebaron

Deleted User wrote: »

Do any cinemas or restaurants provide smoking areas?

Dunno. Generally people don't spend an entire day or night in the cinema or restaurant. They generally leave once the meal/movie is over. Anyway, this is irrelevant. I'm not clamouring for the smoking ban to be lifted. I couldn't care less. But I'll reiterate that I won't be going to any pubs where I have to stand outside so if the landlords are bitching about lost trade due to high prices and cheap offie booze....I'm going to add to their pain by not going to the taverns that don't have a heated beer garden. They can put that in their pipe and "smoke" it.

Dionysus

kfallon wrote: »

I would say you are the minority, not the majority :rolleyes:

So, you've really been brainwashed into believing that the majority of people in Ireland are interested in soccer?

Suggestion: get rid of Sky, or even the tv.

RichieC

*big sad face for them*

Really, my heart breaks..

Degag

jackiebaron wrote: »

Dunno. Generally people don't spend an entire day or night in the cinema or restaurant. They generally leave once the meal/movie is over. Anyway, this is irrelevant. I'm not clamouring for the smoking ban to be lifted. I couldn't care less. But I'll reiterate that I won't be going to any pubs where I have to stand outside so if the landlords are bitching about lost trade due to high prices and cheap offie booze....I'm going to add to their pain by not going to the taverns that don't have a heated beer garden. They can put that in their pipe and "smoke" it.

Most beer gardens are actually illegal. We had one and the health officers told us at least 50% of it had to be in the open.

Idbatterim

could they not start giving out cans and a pint glass? the only reason I go to the pub is the social aspect, the pints of heineken / coors etc are hardly amazing. I think anywhere that badly needs trade, if they stopped charging in before say 12, dont charge for bottle of coke etc, give a splash. Charge less for the cordials etc for those that are not drinking. If people get value for money now, they will still buy. Its a pity that there arent pub chains here.

fonecrusher1

pawrick wrote: »

Tourist numbers are down each year, prices go up and up. Ask any tourist coming over to Ireland for a weekend break what they think of the place. Most will call in to temple bar for a look around and a pint - after the price gouging they see there they never come back to Ireland and tell their friends to avoid the country.

Thats because they've ripped people off for years & now they're finally getting the kick up the hole they deserve. I mean the tourism industry in general. Which of course the pubs are a huge part of.

Go to any popular coastal town in the southwest clonakilty, kinsale, baltimore, dingle. They are feckin expensive little places to visit for a few days. Expensive drink, food & accommodation. Its tough sh!t if they're losing business by the busload. Times have changed as should their pricing. Adapt or close.

Dwaegon

kfallon wrote: »

I would say you are the minority, not the majority :rolleyes:

Doubt it! Most people I know have little or no interest in football, and I agree that it would turn me off being in a pub.

These days you can't even enjoy watching a sport like rugby or GAA sports on tv in a pub without having club football from another country blaring on the biggest tv, and that's even if they have another tv at all.

I was in a pub in the city centre (Dublin) a few weeks back and there were two tvs with some random english football teams match, I asked the barman could he put one onto the magners league when Leinster were playing, and he refused to change it. Never going back there I tell ya!

Paparazzo

matrim wrote: »

What annoys me most about pubs is the price of non-alcoholic drinks. I went out yesterday morning to watch a match. I got a pint of rock shandy which was 5.40, a pint of Heineken in the same place is 4.95. How can they justify the mineral being 45c dearer when there are no taxes / duties on them?

I didn't even want a pint of beer but ended up having one instead of a second rock shandy because it was cheaper.

Same thing happened me. If a pub is serious about attracting customers the first thing they should do is get rid of those rip off little bottles and get in cans or that gun thing that English pubs have. The little bottles are usually stored on a shelf too, so they're not even cold.

Degag

Dionysus wrote: »

So, you've really been brainwashed into believing that the majority of people in Ireland are interested in soccer?

Suggestion: get rid of Sky, or even the tv.

Ya know, i'd agree with you for different reasons though. Sky are a pack of scoundrels. This year, they increased the rates for pubs by about 20% - while reducing the ammount of channels they got! Their reply when the vintners campaigned against it: "We have more pub subscribers in Birmingham than in the whole of Ireland, Tough shít*"


*May not have said "Tough shít"

ardinn

Idbatterim wrote: »

could they not start giving out cans and a pint glass? the only reason I go to the pub is the social aspect, the pints of heineken / coors etc are hardly amazing. I think anywhere that badly needs trade, if they stopped charging in before say 12, dont charge for bottle of coke etc, give a splash. Charge less for the cordials etc for those that are not drinking. If people get value for money now, they will still buy. Its a pity that there arent pub chains here.

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