The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

fonecrusher1

The VFI convincing the government to impose a minimum price for alcohol in supermarkets is highly highly unlikely.

Its not going to happen.

There are anti-competitive protection laws in place to prevent such actions.

DublinWriter

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Allegedly. At the end of the day the Dunnes are Irish and have done very well for themselves. We should be supporting our own business people and not the tescos of the world.

Dunnes Stores...the difference is...we're unaccountable to shareholders because we don't have any!

At the end of the day I'll support the business that employs the highest numbers of bods on the ground. Don't give me that 'supporting Irish business' rubbish, Guinness are now wholly owned by a British company, we buy and sell in a global economy, get over it.

You can hardly say that Dunnes have been exemplar employers over the years given their rough treatment of workers who refused to handle South African goods during the Apartheid years.

Spiritofthekop

HellFireClub wrote: »

I complain about sweet f*ck all, I don't do complaining, I simply vote with my feet and I don't go back, same as most other people in the country are doing when they run into poor value, hence why so many pubs are closing!

I've already told you, I don't care where the publican buys his supplies from, once they represent value for me, relative to what I know I can get the same product elsewhere on the market for!

I really don't know where you are getting this uneducated notion from where I would start an argument with a barman over where he gets his supplies from?!? I just don't go to pubs anymore because there is no value to be had in a pub! I can get the same product on the very same terms as the publican so why the f*ck in all seriousness would I pay five times the price for it in a pub where I'd have to wade through an inch of stale p*ss on the jacks floor if I want to go to the toilet?!?

Your attitude about the guy with the glass of squash really says it all about the attitude of the publican in this sorry little kip of an island. Furthest from your mind is the notion that he might be driving or meeting someone on business in the pub. Furthest from your mind is the notion that if you didn't try to put a f*cking saddle on him at the first opportunity and gave him a bit of value, he might be inclined to come back and spend more money in your premises.

The whole focus is on his short term/once off value as someone to squeeze a Euro out of for something that costs you 5 cent maximum, rather than give him a reason to come back based on you not trying to climb up his arse from the moment he walks into the premises...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

This gets my vote for greatest reply ever.

Well said mate.....so well said.

I once went into a pub while my girlfriend went shopping during the day to see what the score was in a football match. I had about 20mins to kill so as i was really hungover from the night before plus i was driving i decided that instead of one pint of beer i would have a pint of water and dash of lime. I sat down first and watched about 3mins before i got up to the bar to order my dash of lime and water.

The barman who i could feel was watching me from the minute i walked in & sat down was fully aware i just wanted watch the match on my own so when i asked for the pint of water and lime he got me the drink & then wait for it asked for €4. I said why €4 for a dash of lime and water, he said your watching the match are you not....i said yes i was going to for just maybe 20mins and that i was purchasing a drink & had no problem paying €1 or even €2 for it.....he looked at me in disgust and said €4 or get out, i only want real paying customers in here. The place was empty as well.

I laughed at him & told ill tell every single person i know about your policy and see how far you get.

The place closed down a year later. This bar was south side in a well known well to do area as well.

Splendour

strobe wrote: »

Cause when they get pissed in the pubs they are given cloaks of invisibility so that their kids don't see them when they come home steaming drunk?

Why should I, or the many other responsible parents in the country be penalised for the actions of idiots?

There is a far higher risk of some parents getting absolutely blotto at home than there is of them doing the same thing in a pub.

Indeed why should any of us be penalised because of the actions of others. Why not legalise all drugs and make them dirt cheap at the local Centra.

the_syco

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

There is absolutely no need for that sort of abuse. All I'm saying is tesco repatriate their profits to Britain while if you spend money in the local pub then it probably keeps the money in the community.

Okay, how about this: apart from Bulmers, what other drinks that are sold in a bar, are Irish?

Tescos sell hundreds of Irish products.

gurramok wrote: »

Name an Irish owned beer that is served in most pubs. Hint: it ain't Guinness.

I can't. I can name an Irish owned cider, though :P

DublinWriter

Splendour wrote: »

There is a far higher risk of some parents getting absolutely blotto at home than there is of them doing the same thing in a pub.

Oh the delicious ironing.

Since the introduction of the smoking ban by the Minister who looks like he will become the future leader of FF, a party with 40% publican-backbenchers, rates of smoking in the young have increased (22% to 29%) and A&E admissions due to alcohol-related problems have increased three-fold.

Grenola eaters take note.

johnmcdnl

Because the pubs turned into money grabbing pricks in the boom years I have no sympathy for them - if I can buy a bottle of whiskey/vodka for 20 euro in tesco why does it cost about 100 euro for the same amount in a pub???

6 pack for about 8-9 euro - 1 pint 4.50ish anywhere

if I can get such good value in a supermarket surely the pubs can group together and get bulk buying power and reduce the cost of drink for themselves too

also I'm going to point out that the supermarkets are going to be making some form of profit obviously so why do the pubs need such absurdly expensive prices to be able to cover overheads...

Now I wouldn't like the rural pub out in the middle of nowhere to be forced to shut because these are the heart of the communities in the countryside but this attempt by the VA to grab more and more money is complete ****e...

let the pubs reform their practices and compete at a someway reasonable price - every other form of business is being expected to reform their practices to make a profit when the economy ****ed up so the pubs should be made to do the same or go bust just like everyone else..

the reason that supermarkets make so much is becuase people go for pre drinks because it's so damn expensive when your out to go drinking - lower the prices and people might stop some of the pre drinking and actually go to the pub and buy drink there rather than just going through the doors to have the craic...

dunno how many times I go out and don't spend a cent bar the taxi home and the bag of chips - not a penny spent on alcohol because it's way too expensive... cheaper pints and I might consider waiting til I get to the pub before cracking into the drink..

.. and finally a wee bit of advise for the publicans out there - why not make sure that your pub actually has decent tasting pints on tap all the time - dunno how many times I've bought pints and they tasted like piss which was another reason for turning to pre drinking..

Spiritofthekop

ardinn wrote: »

OK - I cant stay awake any longer although id love to stay here with this topic all night. And my dog just went into heat on my missus new white rug (fuckin lovely. Peace - its been informative, fun, and really frustrating.

Ill try continue tomorrow.

I hear its hard to remove stains of white silk Persian rugs. Good luck with that.:p

HellFireClub

Cummybaby wrote: »

The Pub trade and especially the VFI is nothing more than a glorified racket. You dress up and head into town for a good night out. Then you're either treated like a potential terrorist or stupid cow by the bouncers. You buy overpriced beer which varies in taste and quality between each barrel. Then if your lucky you wont slip and break a leg on the lake of gathering piss in the toilets.

One question: Why bother?

This is it in a nutshell, these people over the last number of years, have abused, hugely offended and financially raped their respectable and hard working customers.

I couldn't agree more with the comparison you make to being made feel like a terrorist when waiting at a door and being interrogated, these sm*g pricks blowing smoke in your face at the door telling you that it's, "regular's only", or "sorry I don't know you"... These are my memories of the "Celtic Tiger" years, being humiliated by smug ar*sehole pr*cks who were only standing at a door every night because they didn't have the intelligence or ability to drive a taxi...

You hit the nail on the head again, inconsistent pints that often tasted as if they had just been pulled out of the lake of p*ss on the jacks floor...

I'm glad in a way that we will end this decade though, on the back of all these negative experiences, maybe being a better kind of people, we'll have less pubs because finally we'll have learnt to not tolerate this kind of treatment when paying for a service...

skywalker_208

HellFireClub wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with the comparison you make to being made feel like a terrorist when waiting at a door and being interrogated, these sm*g pricks blowing smoke in your face at the door telling you that it's, "regular's only", or "sorry I don't know you"... .

.... compared to when you are on holidays and the only people outside the bars are chatting you up/begging you to go in/handing you vouchers. They actually appreciate your custom!

HellFireClub

skywalker_208 wrote: »

.... compared to when you are on holidays and the only people outside the bars are chatting you up/begging you to go in/handing you vouchers. They actually appreciate your custom!

I think it's an Irish thing, this thing where you get a bit busy, you might have be getting a bit of luck in business, (all due to an out of control party economy that we had here for a few years), and next thing you turn into an absolute smug pr*ck, you're telling people you don't want their custom, you're telling hard working respectable people from your own community openly to their face with money in their pockets that they are not suitable for your establishment, wrong age, wrong clothes, they "didn't know you", or whatever excuse that they needed to dream up to insult or abuse you for their own pathethic egotistical needs.

Now you desparately need my custom and you expect to get it, hahaha F*CK YOU!!!

ScumLord

johnmcdnl wrote: »

if I can get such good value in a supermarket surely the pubs can group together and get bulk buying power and reduce the cost of drink for themselves too

The problem is publicans are nothing but alcohol pushers, there is pretty much nothing to do in pubs any more other than get drunk. Supermarkets don't depend on you buying alcohol so it's no big deal if they sell it at cost or less.

Back when I was young pubs had arcade machines, pool tables and gambling machines. Now they just have gambling machines and if they do have a pool table it's moved out of the way during busy times and when it's put back it's uneven and ruins the game.

I don't know why they don't have arcade machines any more, this is the gaming generation I started playing arcade games in pubs it used to be fun way before I even thought about drinking alcohol now they're just a place to drink and I can do that at home, it's no longer a public house.

omahaid

I agree 100% ScumLord. I remember being in with my parents in the pub where they would play 45 with friends once a week. There were arcade games, rings, darts and snooker/pool. Feck all now... you get to stand like a cow at the mart shouting at your friends and not being able to hear them. Feck that for a game of golf :mad::mad:

Naikon

HellFireClub wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell, these people over the last number of years, have abused, hugely offended and financially raped their respectable and hard working customers.

I couldn't agree more with the comparison you make to being made feel like a terrorist when waiting at a door and being interrogated, these sm*g pricks blowing smoke in your face at the door telling you that it's, "regular's only", or "sorry I don't know you"... These are my memories of the "Celtic Tiger" years, being humiliated by smug ar*sehole pr*cks who were only standing at a door every night because they didn't have the intelligence or ability to drive a taxi...

You hit the nail on the head again, inconsistent pints that often tasted as if they had just been pulled out of the lake of p*ss on the jacks floor...

I'm glad in a way that we will end this decade though, on the back of all these negative experiences, maybe being a better kind of people, we'll have less pubs because finally we'll have learnt to not tolerate this kind of treatment when paying for a service...

That is right, paint all the pubs out there with the same brush! Financial abuse is pushing it a bit. You aren't forced to drink in a pub. Mind you, the guy that mentioned paying 8.40 for a pint of coke is daylight robbery. No question about that. There are chancers out there in every walk of life. Keep your head on you shoulders and avoid such people/establishments. Come on now, I don't think it's fair to call all/most publicans out there scam artists. That special place is reserved for lawyers/corportate CEO's or worse yet, politicians. Oh, and don't forget televangelists

HellFireClub

Naikon wrote: »

That is right, paint all the pubs out there with the same brush!

I can only relay my own particular experiences of pubs in Dublin, which happen to be similar experiences that my mates have had. My recollection of being in my mid-late 20's in Dublin is littered with rediculous and completely unnecessary incidents of crap at pub doors and extortionate prices once you got in, jacks floors with an inch of p*ss on the floor, sinks without soap, hand dryers not working, jacks doors without locks, 30 minutes standing at bars waiting to be served, I could go on and on and on.

Naikon

HellFireClub wrote: »

I can only relay my own particular experiences of pubs in Dublin, which happen to be similar experiences that my mates have had. My recollection of being in my mid-late 20's in Dublin is littered with rediculous and completely unnecessary incidents of crap at pub doors and extortionate prices once you got in, jacks floors with an inch of p*ss on the floor, sinks without soap, hand dryers not working, jacks doors without locks, 30 minutes standing at bars waiting to be served, I could go on and on and on.

I am not bluffing here, but maybe you should have reported these incidents? I have known some rogue pubs but in the end, the carelessness takes those places under. No question, those places should be closed citing health and safety regulations. Yes, most pubs do use some tactics people don't percieve as "nice", but then again, don't most sectors? I don't know how pubs countrywide handle h&s, but most places are subject to almost draconian rules. This country is awash with so many rules and regulations, you would not believe it. Just as a general rule, if you visit a particular pub and one barman can't remember a regulars order, this is a sign of sloppiness. Bar staff should know this.

HellFireClub

Naikon wrote: »

I am not bluffing here, but maybe you should have reported these incidents? I have known some rogue pubs but in the end, the carelessness takes those places under. No question, those places should be closed citing health and safety regulations. Yes, most pubs do use some tactics people don't percieve as "nice", but then again, don't most sectors? I don't know how pubs countrywide handle h&s, but most places are subject to almost draconian rules. This country is awash with so many rules and regulations, you would not believe it. Just as a general rule, if you visit a particular pub and one barman can't remember a regulars order, this is a sign of sloppiness. Bar staff should know this.

I think I expained this last night, but I don't get dressed up and go out to get into pointless confrontations with publicans as to how they run their businesses. Also, if a pr*ck on the door decides he doesn't "know you", then the publican is not going to start going over his head because nobody will work at his door if he does that, that's not the way the world turns.

I can't say I feel the slightest bit sorry for the folks going out of business, their profession has a terrible name, and it looks to me like the chickens are well and truly coming home to roost now for them...

I do feel sorry for the odd decent publican out there who is trying to run a decent pub and provide a decent service, but my experience has been that the vast majority of them are ignorant, mean, hungry, rude, thieving sc*mbags who should never have been allowed run a pub.

Ghandee

Great thread altogether, makes for very interesting reading!

Speaking as a man who loves his beer, I feel obliged to put my 2 cents in here.

We had a friends birthday a while back, had a lovely meal in Dublin city centre followed by drinks in a poncy, overrated yuppy kip of a pub (by God it wasn't my choice!)

Anyways, like I say, I was in company and had to stay there as part of the birthday crowd, six euro and twenty cents for a pint of luke warm, goats piss (some people call it Heineken for short I believe:D) bear in mind for 6.29 you can get 6 x 500ml bottles of (imho) decent German beer in Aldi (Reinbacher) 5%

Next morning, thinking about things I felt obliged to call the bar in question, and basically asked the manager to try and justify why the fook they thought it was justifiable to charge such high prices in the midst of a deep recession?

He replied by asking if I had been in any other pub in Dawson street that night, as they all charged the same price!

I laughed, and explained to him, that only in Ireland would a price war involve trying to sell at the HIGHEST price you could charge instead of the lowest!

The dick!
:mad:

cerebis

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

There is absolutely no need for that sort of abuse. All I'm saying is tesco repatriate their profits to Britain while if you spend money in the local pub then it probably keeps the money in the community.

I've been in a few pubs lately who have been serving "uk" bottles of beer and charging me the same Irish price.. is this ok ??

Capt'n Midnight

feelingstressed wrote: »

I would be interested to know the duty on wine. I'm not asking, I'll check it myself. I'm just wondering out loud here.

Having been to France, wine is still crazy expensive in Ireland.
Yes I know you cannot directly compare countries.

For sure there is a lot of cost price selling in supermarkets. Wines have continued to be expensive though. Or just seem expensive to me

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/excise/duties/excise-duty-rates.html
Still, exceeding 5.5% volume but not exceeding 15% volume 262.24 per hectolitre

So for most wine it's €2.6224 per litre
or €1.9668 per 750ml bottle.

Then factor in 21% VAT

Orando Broom

fontanalis wrote: »

True, but people were also willing to go to over priced glorified marts to pour it down their neck. Regarding the pub trade shrinking, what I'd love to see is the "yuppy/mutton dressed up as lamb" bars disappearing.

They are the ones going to the wal in a lot of cases. the old family pubs owe nothing (unless they went bollixing with property) and can survive an economic shellacking like the one we are getting. Close down McDowell's cafe bar society and all the ****wittedness that goes with it.

Degag

Naikon wrote: »

Just as a general rule, if you visit a particular pub and one barman can't remember a regulars order, this is a sign of sloppiness. Bar staff should know this.

Lots of people change drinks. Some people drink Guinness in the winter and beer in the summer, some people change drinks every night. Maybe one or two nights they'll be driving and only want a shandy or a coke. Also some people who think they're regulars and can't understand when they say "the usual" the barman doesn't know what it is, when they only visit a bar once a month.

matrim

ScumLord wrote: »

Back when I was young pubs had arcade machines, pool tables and gambling machines. Now they just have gambling machines and if they do have a pool table it's moved out of the way during busy times and when it's put back it's uneven and ruins the game

TBH, if there is one thing I don't want taking off in pubs here it's the proliferation of gambling / arcade machines you see in pubs in the UK. They are annoying eye sores that I really dislike.

Pool tables can be a nice alternative but you do have be careful about who you let in as they can cause some arguments.

I would like more pubs to offer a choice of card / board games as that would be a good way to spend a night with what should be minimum fuss for the pub

Capt'n Midnight

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

We need minimum prices on off license beer and wine to get people back in the pubs. The Vintners are a crucial part of our economy and the pub trade attracts tourists. Thousands of people rely on publicans for employment and we should support them and rally around them. Usually publicans are fine upstanding members of the community.

How many TD's are or were publicans ??

What minimum price would you suggest ?, bearing in mind the price you suggest will generate more profits for the supermarkets and incentivise more people to buy alcohol up north and they will buy other stuff on the trip too. How much do we need to hurt local businesses to subsidise the pubs ?



Is anyone else sick of pubs having regular makeovers and spending lots of money on stuff we don't want. To me having a SKY Sports is a turn off, some pubs need them but not the all ?. Loud music to me is just a way to kill conversation, you feel that you are supposed to use your mouth to drink not to to talk.

The reason the smoking ban came in was because hardly any pub offered non-smoking facilities. Instead now most pubs seem to be the same with large TV's, many with way too loud music, vending machines, pay through the nose WiFi. I feel like I am subsidising technology that doesn't improve my evening.

Coffee shops can give you a drink for far less than a pub, even when you take into account the cost the publican pays for the drink. There is more labour in it's preparation. If there is WiFi it's usually free. However, caffeine keeps me awake so I can't do tea or coffee in a pub otherwise I might take that option instead.

Trhiggy83

Gucky wrote: »

Great thread altogether, makes for very interesting reading!

Speaking as a man who loves his beer, I feel obliged to put my 2 cents in here.

We had a friends birthday a while back, had a lovely meal in Dublin city centre followed by drinks in a poncy, overrated yuppy kip of a pub (by God it wasn't my choice!)

Anyways, like I say, I was in company and had to stay there as part of the birthday crowd, six euro and twenty cents for a pint of luke warm, goats piss (some people call it Heineken for short I believe:D) bear in mind for 6.29 you can get 6 x 500ml bottles of (imho) decent German beer in Aldi (Reinbacher) 5%

Next morning, thinking about things I felt obliged to call the bar in question, and basically asked the manager to try and justify why the fook they thought it was justifiable to charge such high prices in the midst of a deep recession?

He replied by asking if I had been in any other pub in Dawson street that night, as they all charged the same price!

I laughed, and explained to him, that only in Ireland would a price war involve trying to sell at the HIGHEST price you could charge instead of the lowest!

The dick!
:mad:

Ya i put my two cents yesterday evening into this thread and its still going strong im glad to see. The quicker publicans realise they have to offer value for money then the better cos they still dont seem to have realised that a lot of people have woke up to the fact that they are being ripped off. U were right to ring the bar the day after as well, a smug answer like that just shows they are living on a differant planet to the rest of us

Calhoun

Naikon wrote: »

That is right, paint all the pubs out there with the same brush! Financial abuse is pushing it a bit. You aren't forced to drink in a pub. Mind you, the guy that mentioned paying 8.40 for a pint of coke is daylight robbery. No question about that. There are chancers out there in every walk of life. Keep your head on you shoulders and avoid such people/establishments. Come on now, I don't think it's fair to call all/most publicans out there scam artists. That special place is reserved for lawyers/corportate CEO's or worse yet, politicians. Oh, and don't forget televangelists

Well thats it exactly, paint them all with the same brush because as the free market economics start kicking in and crap pubs start going under all across the country those that are left will be humbled and maybe just maybe might start to think about customer service, price and value they bring to their customers.

Additionally any member of the VFI deserves it for allowing their organisation to come out with such BS without first looking at what they could do in the industry to turn it around.

The Pontiac

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Pubs are just like any other business if they can't stay afloat they should fail, simple as that really.

Not really, no. Alcohol prices in Ireland are 67% higher than the EU average. Taxes are the second highest in Europe, with only Finland having higher tax rates. Quite remarkable really, seeing as the rest of Europe are bailing us out. We're bankrupt, and supposed to be a poor country!! The Irish pub was/is iconic, and can be seen in almost every country in the world. It's a very important industy in this country.

Under the Fianna Fail government thousands of pubs closed down. In Cork alone, between 2007 and 2009, 109 pubs have shut down. I've no idea how FF actually achieved this. It was happening before the 'crash' too. Incredible!

RichieC

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

You can sneer all you like but pubs play a vital role in communities. I'm friendly with my local publican and he sponsors the local hurling team and allows us to have our cumann meetings in the spare room upstairs. He always hosts alot of fundraising events for local causes.

By friendly do you perhaps mean...he's you?

Something tells me you're in here shilling either for yourself or the Vintners.

JupiterKid

Pubs deserve the downturn in business they are getting because they have abused their position to a disgusting degree over the decades and none more so during the recently deceased "Celtic Tiger" years.

As other posters pointed out - sh*tty attitude at the door, overpriced p*sswater, filthy toilets, music that is so loud (and almost always crap) you can't hear yourself think let alone talk, packed like sardines full of pissed punters and an aeon to wait to get served. Pubs were a licence to print money but those days are gone - and that's something to be grateful for.

Is it my imagination or could the VFI and publicans lobby have been behind the ban on off-licence sales after 10pm? That was brought in and passed in an awful hurry after pub trade started to slip...

grenache

starbelgrade wrote: »

if an industry, which is not of any essential benefit or need to the country, cannot stand on it's own two feet, then it should be allowed to fail.

Try telling that to the folk who live in rural areas where the pub is their only social outlet. To them it is sacrosanct. Its grand if you live in an urban area, there are other amenities. But if you're a single male, in his late 60s, living out in the sticks, then the pub is your only safe house. The pub industry must not be allowed to disappear. You're also forgetting that its a major tourist attraction which generates millions for the exchequer every year.