The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

!MAVERICK!

I wouldnt care if they increase the price of alcohol by 100 %, there are too many drunks on this island, especially the age teenagers start poisoning themselves, and im sick of the reputation we have. This is comming from a pioneer btw.

starbelgrade

ardinn wrote: »

You have given me one way - Which was to build a country wide network of cash and carry's costing tens of millions then actually start brewing products ourselves - I'll poo hoo you! Get real.

Publicans spend tens of millions on supplies every year. There is no reason why they cannot do either of those things.

Well, actually there is:

1. They are unwilling to change
2. They are unable to embrace new ideas & challenge the state of play
3. They are happy enough as things are
4. They are unable to organise themselves properly & rely heavily on the Vitners Association, who are useless.
5. They expect someone else to do the work for them - like the government

If you control the cost of the product or indeed the product itself, you control the cost to the customer.

That's the reality of it.

ardinn

Venom wrote: »

When the consumer can purchase the exact same product themselves and enjoy it in far nicer surroundings for a quarter of the price why would they consider paying a 3rd party €4 for a pint?


Ardinn after all your posts in this thread and all the feedback you have gotten, what part of giving the customer better value can't you grasp? Seriously dude you really asking people if paying 3-4 times the going rate for a product is bad value :rolleyes:

OK.
I have a large 1/4 and full bottle wine selection
I have a large menu
I have a decent world beer selection
I have fosters and Baaria at €3.10 a pint
I give free food on busy nights
I bought a minibus to get you home
my premises is clean
I provide entertainment - live music on Sat - trad on Sunday
Poker
Darts
Pool
Jukebox
Clean Toilets
No dickheads allowed in or at the first opportunity they are barred
I'll try get a late one to my regulars
My premises is warm and comfortable.

I think I offer Value for money.

starbelgrade

ardinn wrote: »

OK.
I have a large 1/4 and full bottle wine selection
I have a large menu
I have a decent world beer selection
I have fosters and Baaria at €3.10 a pint
I give free food on busy nights
I bought a minibus to get you home
my premises is clean
I provide entertainment - live music on Sat - trad on Sunday
Poker
Darts
Pool
Jukebox
Clean Toilets
No dickheads allowed in or at the first opportunity they are barred
I'll try get a late one to my regulars
My premises is warm and comfortable.

I think I offer Value for money.

You forgot to mention that it's a lesbian bar in Ballyhaunis.

Too much of a niche market, methinks.

ardinn

starbelgrade wrote: »

Publicans spend tens of millions on supplies every year. There is no reason why they cannot do either of those things.

Well, actually there is:

1. They are unwilling to change
2. They are unable to embrace new ideas & challenge the state of play
3. They are happy enough as things are
4. They are unable to organise themselves properly & rely heavily on the Vitners Association, who are useless.
5. They expect someone else to do the work for them - like the government

If you control the cost of the product or indeed the product itself, you control the cost to the customer.

That's the reality of it.

1. How so?
2. Im not - who exactly are you referring to
3. Yeah of course we are???
4. The vintners is a trade union type org - if a teacher or Some other Private sector are looking for change who do they turn to? One person alone wont change much. Im not for all their policies but the work for the good of their members in general. Thats their Function.
5. The Government controls legislation

We dont control the cost - Yet you seem to think we do or should build another st James;s gate?

ardinn

starbelgrade wrote: »

You forgot to mention that it's a lesbian bar in Ballyhaunis.

Too much of a niche market, methinks.

troll of trolls - forget it!

HellFireClub

Geuze wrote: »

One of the reasons for high prices in pubs here is the supplier cost, not the pub's gross margin.

As Diageo is so dominant here, they charge much more to pubs than in the UK.

Same goes for Heineken.

Bulmers have often said that they make more % profit in the RoI compared to the UK, due to less competition, higher willingness to pay, etc.

I suspect the soft-drink suppliers / wholesalers make huge margins on pub sales.

And I bet if you look at what Sky are charging Irish pubs for their sports coverage, and you look at what Sky are charging a pub in Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds or Bristol for the exact same product, you'll find that we are being charged probably 30% more and upwards...

The whole assumption here has been that there's been plenty of excess cash knocking around in the Irish economy and we've no issue paying over the odds.

That assumption is no longer valid for the Irish economy so the Diageo's and Sky's of the world will be losing market share now for the foreseeable future in this market anyway until they shake off this notion that we all walk around with fivers and tenners hanging off the sole of our shoe here in Ireland...

!MAVERICK!

starbelgrade wrote: »

You forgot to mention that it's a lesbian bar in Ballyhaunis.

Too much of a niche market, methinks.

:rolleyes:

stimpson

ardinn wrote: »

4. The vintners is a trade union type org - if a teacher or Some other Private sector are looking for change who do they turn to?

How many self employed business owners have a trade union? I think the only other sector with one are the taxi drivers. If you are that organised you should be able to put pressure on your suppliers to reduce their costs rather than trying to blame your woes on supermarkets.

The simple fact is that the perceived value is neither here nor there. If people haven't got the money to drink in the pub they will drink at home. The publicans don't seem to realise that people just don't have the money anymore.

ardinn

stimpson wrote: »

How many self employed business owners have a trade union? I think the only other sector with one are the taxi drivers. If you are that organised you should be able to put pressure on your suppliers to reduce their costs rather than trying to blame your woes on supermarkets.

The simple fact is that the perceived value is neither here nor there. If people haven't got the money to drink in the pub they will drink at home. The publicans don't seem to realise that people just don't have the money anymore.

I have stated that people just dont have the money anymore.

I have also stated that pressure on suppliers has stopped the rate of increase from diageo completely in the last 2 years and that they have increased it in britain 15%

And that suppliers such as sky have told us to shove it.

Read the thread.

Degag

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

I wouldnt care if they increase the price of alcohol by 100 %, there are too many drunks on this island, especially the age teenagers start poisoning themselves, and im sick of the reputation we have. This is comming from a pioneer btw.

Obviously.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Publicans spend tens of millions on supplies every year. There is no reason why they cannot do either of those things.

Well, actually there is:

1. They are unwilling to change
2. They are unable to embrace new ideas & challenge the state of play
3. They are happy enough as things are
4. They are unable to organise themselves properly & rely heavily on the Vitners Association, who are useless.
5. They expect someone else to do the work for them - like the government

If you control the cost of the product or indeed the product itself, you control the cost to the customer.

That's the reality of it.

What you are proposing is akin to Tesco and Dunnes joining forces to get cheaper products.

Degag

HellFireClub wrote: »

And I bet if you look at what Sky are charging Irish pubs for their sports coverage, and you look at what Sky are charging a pub in Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds or Bristol for the exact same product, you'll find that we are being charged probably 30% more and upwards...

Have you any source for that? Because i'd find it extremely doubtful.

bluecatmorgana

Ardinn, I'm just curious. Do you buy big 2litre bottles of soft drinks from supermarkets instead of diageo and charge customers less for soft drinks as a result?

Capt'n Midnight

Idbatterim wrote: »

could the pubs not have soft drinks on tap, like in cinema or fast food chains?

yes they do
and boy do they charge for a splash compared to what it costs them

starbelgrade

Degag wrote: »

What you are proposing is akin to Tesco and Dunnes joining forces to get cheaper products.

No. It's more akin to a large group of small shop owners combining to increase their purchasing power in order to reduce their supply price to the customer.

Tesco & Dunnes have no need to join forces - they already get cheap products.

Publicans don't, which is why they need to do something about it if they want things to change in their favour.

ardinn

bluecatmorgana wrote: »

Ardinn, I'm just curious. Do you buy big 2litre bottles of soft drinks from supermarkets instead of diageo and charge customers less for soft drinks as a result?

We have large bottles and charge 30c per splash - But you'd be amazed how many people just want a small bottle instead. They all thing the Splash id "dead" or flat. But younger people do buy it like that.

ardinn

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

yes they do
and boy do they charge for a splash compared to what it costs them

I was onto coke about those - it costs more than the bottles - jut so everyone knows, coz you seem to - how much are they?

Lazy Bhoy

Grassroots_FF wrote: »

Small businesses can't compete with the economies of scale offered by big supermarket chains like Tesco. You should be supporting your local business and not British corporations.

Tell that to the great Bertie Ahern and that shoite British newspaper he works for.

.......If you can get him out of the cupboard that is

Degag

starbelgrade wrote: »

No. It's more akin to a large group of small shop owners combining to increase their purchasing power in order to reduce their supply price to the customer.

Tesco & Dunnes have no need to join forces - they already get cheap products.

Publicans don't, which is why they need to do something about it if they want things to change in their favour.

It's relitively the same thing. You have lots and lots of priivate companies whom you think should join up. You're sentiments may be correct, but it's just not feasible.

aidan24326

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

I wouldnt care if they increase the price of alcohol by 100 %, there are too many drunks on this island,

And too many people like you who keep spouting this stupid stereotype.

especially the age teenagers start poisoning themselves, and im sick of the reputation we have. This is comming from a pioneer btw

Now there's a surprise.

starbelgrade

Degag wrote: »

It's relitively the same thing. You have lots and lots of priivate companies whom you think should join up. You're sentiments may be correct, but it's just not feasible.

OK, let's agree that it is relatively the same.

However, there is one fundamental difference.. both Tesco & Dunnes are hugely profitable companies. They have no need to join forces.

The publicans - as they would have us believe - are struggling to make profits. They say that if something isn't done about it, many of them will go under.

And yet they are ignoring the fact, that by joining forces, they could be a very strong entity. It's not unfeasible that they do so, it's just unimaginable to them, which is entirely different.

noodler

aidan24326 wrote: »

And too many people like you who keep spouting this stupid stereotype.

Surely it is only a stereotype if it is not true.

Degag

starbelgrade wrote: »

OK, let's agree that it is relatively the same.

However, there is one fundamental difference.. both Tesco & Dunnes are hugely profitable companies. They have no need to join forces.

The publicans - as they would have us believe - are struggling to make profits. They say that if something isn't done about it, many of them will go under.

And yet they are ignoring the fact, that by joining forces, they could be a very strong entity. It's not unfeasible that they do so, it's just unimaginable to them, which is entirely different.

Doing something like that doesn't mean that pubs won't go under. Sure they might be able to lower their price by a few cent, but price is only one factor in pubs' problems these days.

Danno

Ardinn...

Have you looked into getting the mini-cans of coke as a splash alternative to the bottles and sell them for 50c or something like that.

ScumLord

ardinn wrote: »

I was onto coke about those - it costs more than the bottles - jut so everyone knows, coz you seem to - how much are they?

I don't understand how that could be the case. Most pubs in the UK have dispensers for soft drinks and they charge less, every cheap place has then because it has to be cheaper to buy in bulk. The only expense would be the initial outlay. There's no way cans and bottles with printed labels could be more expensive than a large box of soft drinks. I can only assume coke don't want you to buy stuff which is cheaper.

Venom

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't understand how that could be the case. Most pubs in the UK have dispensers for soft drinks and they charge less, every cheap place has then because it has to be cheaper to buy in bulk. The only expense would be the initial outlay. There's no way cans and bottles with printed labels could be more expensive than a large box of soft drinks. I can only assume coke don't want you to buy stuff which is cheaper.

There are tons of ****heel publicans who sell cans of Coke at the bottles price Iv found.

ardinn

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't understand how that could be the case. Most pubs in the UK have dispensers for soft drinks and they charge less, every cheap place has then because it has to be cheaper to buy in bulk. The only expense would be the initial outlay. There's no way cans and bottles with printed labels could be more expensive than a large box of soft drinks. I can only assume coke don't want you to buy stuff which is cheaper.

I can only assume the same but thats what they told me - And its pretty much the same as installing beer lines - would have to dig up half the bar and so forth!

ardinn

Danno wrote: »

Ardinn...

Have you looked into getting the mini-cans of coke as a splash alternative to the bottles and sell them for 50c or something like that.

No - Might do tho!

Meteoric

ardinn wrote: »

I have stated that people just dont have the money anymore.

I have also stated that pressure on suppliers has stopped the rate of increase from diageo completely in the last 2 years and that they have increased it in britain 15%

And that suppliers such as sky have told us to shove it.

Read the thread.

As to the bolded part, yes you have fewer subscribers than Birmingham but you need to take the trade union idea here, people do not pass pickets (by and large). It the VFI and the Dublin equivalent take the line they will not pay because Sky are being unreasonable and will not give the Birmingham rate and every pub does it pointing out in their Advertising (e.g. signs on the pub doors) that the cost of sky is adding to the cost of the pint so to give value they are striking then sky will either have to pull out of Irelands pub market or lower the cost.
Like strikers you have to take the risk that you do lose some business for a time.
Organise, make the public know why you are doing it and it is to their detriment to support the scabs, and you get what you want or a compromise.
Instead of the VFI looking for something that hurts people, have the VFI advertise that if. you support an organisation that rips off the Irish And so pubs that are there to provide value are the ones who are doing the boycott should have more effect on Sky. After all they would not have the rights if they did not make them money.

Degag

As to the bolded part, yes you have fewer subscribers than Birmingham but you need to take the trade union idea here, people do not pass pickets (by and large). It the VFI and the Dublin equivalent take the line they will not pay because Sky are being unreasonable and will not give the Birmingham rate and every pub does it pointing out in their Advertising (e.g. signs on the pub doors) that the cost of sky is adding to the cost of the pint so to give value they are striking then sky will either have to pull out of Irelands pub market or lower the cost.
Like strikers you have to take the risk that you do lose some business for a time.
Organise, make the public know why you are doing it and it is to their detriment to support the scabs, and you get what you want or a compromise.
Instead of the VFI looking for something that hurts people, have the VFI advertise that if. you support an organisation that rips off the Irish And so pubs that are there to provide value are the ones who are doing the boycott should have more effect on Sky. After all they would not have the rights if they did not make them money.

I agree totally. Sky need to be told to politely go fúck themselves. My boss reckons that not enought publicans would stop paying their sub to make any kind of strike worthwhile though. I have no idea why they won't try though.