The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

the_syco

Question: if you were to get ESPN via a "freeview" satellite, does anyone know how much it'd cost per month directly from ESPN, bypassing Sky?

benjamin d

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Fair enough, you haven't given the disclaimer or the acknowledgement that you're talking with or against anyone.

And you're here engaging.

That said, lads in your position are doing the same over the mahogany three or four nights a week, just not in a permanent vein.


Too much vagueness, ardinn, I asked you a straight question as to SKYs commercial charges, where you said a generic discount amounted to something like .03 cent a pint. I'm being vague, cos I cba reading through the thread, but you were quite specific. And then you showed J Edgar Hoover behaviour when you wouldn't give a mean figure as to what they offered you.

Let's face it, it's not Ewing Oil, no one is watching your SKY bill. Why not share?

Listen leave the guy alone, he's telling everyone much more than he has to, and doesn't want to give out financial details of his business. Only a fool would do such a thing, especially to total strangers on the internet. I know you're going to say its only his sky bill/keg prices/whatever, but you'd be surprised how much you could find out about his finances even from seemingly innocuous things like that. This is about the pub trade in general, not Ardinn's own pub.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

ardinn wrote: »

That is the single most moronic thing ive heard in a while

Why dont we sell cars / clothes / food / and everything else for a loss

Sure wouldnt everyone be grand - sure we would need loadsa staff to make all the cars and clothes and serve the pints and everyone would manke a fortune......



Oh wait!!

Running a business you shouldn't be so clueless..

It's called "loss leader" selling..

An example for the pubs would be to drop the price of vodka to maybe just above cost price (instead of ~4 - 5 quid for a dribble!!) and attract people with this. They'll bring their friends and maybe, just maybe, somebody will purchase other products the pub is selling!



In all fairness, I went on holidays to spain last summer and nearly everything was €2.50 per drink. Bulmers was €3 but i can't think of anything dearer than that. When you come home you realize what a complete rip-off this country is.

The stores nightclub in wexford really drives me mad. €12 to get in on any given saturday and then a fiver for every drink, Madness! Their miserable excuse for a discount is providing a 'one free drink' voucher if you get in the club before half ten! Half Ten!


Even if pints were at a reasonable price of lets say: €3.25, i'd definitely be more willing to drink out rather than having a dose of cans before i head to town!


It's crazy that no pubs i've seen have done anything about this! It doesn't take a genius to realize the prices of drinks in pubs needs to be dropped. The demand is still there, but not at these prices!

yoshytoshy

Heard something on radio/tv during the week about publicans and the history of them being involved in politics.
We've a history of electing politicians who own pubs and then make laws etc.

the_syco

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

Even if pints were at a reasonable price of lets say: €3.25, i'd definitely be more willing to drink out rather than having a dose of cans before i head to town!


It's crazy that no pubs i've seen have done anything about this! It doesn't take a genius to realize the prices of drinks in pubs needs to be dropped. The demand is still there, but not at these prices!

And were these pubs selling all the stuff that you'd get in an Irish pub, or local stuff? Compare like with like.

ardinn

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Heard something on radio/tv during the week about publicans and the history of them being involved in politics.
We've a history of electing politicians who own pubs and then make laws etc.

Yet they have never really done anything to improve the business except raise taxes, ban smoking and generally take rights away from publicans - I should be allowed run my pub the way I want, within the law*

*Well you know what I mean!

Degag

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

An example for the pubs would be to drop the price of vodka to maybe just above cost price (instead of ~4 - 5 quid for a dribble!!) and attract people with this. They'll bring their friends and maybe, just maybe, somebody will purchase other products the pub is selling!

You're not going to sell one of your biggest selling spirits at cost price or slightly above cost price. You may sell a particular, cheaper brand of vodka at that price - but not a whole range.

whatsamsn

Like most things in life it all comes down to what side of the coin you are on.

For the normal person (myself included) who goes to pubs - they've always been over priced and they've made their money for years. Why should we care if the trade is now 'dying'

On the flip side ....

If you are someone who runs a pub you will justify pubs prices as you are the one making money. And the screwed up thing is if anyone in this thread opened a pub they'd soon change their tune ...


welcome to life. :pac:

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

the_syco wrote: »

And were these pubs selling all the stuff that you'd get in an Irish pub, or local stuff? Compare like with like.

They had a wide enough selection in most places. Everywhere had Heineken, Bud, Stella Artois most places had Bulmers and Carlsberg and then their local stuff.

I don't expect Irish pubs to sell at this price because the taxes are higher over here, but the prices they're charging now are unjustifiable.

Degag wrote: »

You're not going to sell one of your biggest selling spirits at cost price or slightly above cost price. You may sell a particular, cheaper brand of vodka at that price - but not a whole range.

Well even if they did this it would at least be some progress! I don't drink vodka but I know that a liter bottle in tesco is ~€30. Pubs will get this much cheaper if buying in bulk, but anyway...

A shot is supposed to be 35ml.

1000/35 = 28.57

28.57 X (on average) €4.50 = €128.57


28.57 X €2.50 = €71.43


By charging €2.50 you're still making well over 100% profit, even at supermarket prices! This kind of deal would definitely attract more customers and if pubs and clubs want to survive they're going to have to realize this.

People aren't stupid and protectionism is only going to drive more people away.

xoixo

Is it uniquely with FF the publican's have ties or do they exist to the same extent with FG or others?

i_love_toast

Went to a 21st recently in the Vaults under Connolly Station in Dublin for 21st. The cheapest pint was Guinness and that was 6e!!!!

If I wasnt at a 21st I wouldve gone across the road to one of the local old man pubs and got a pints for around 3.70e.

Unbelievable! and another 21st place in town that charges around the same outrageous prices is the Russel court hotel

chillywilly

xoixo wrote: »

Is it uniquely with FF the publican's have ties or do they exist to the same extent with FG or others?

I was thinking the same! Would this sway your vote in the upcoming election?

stimpson

ardinn wrote: »

Yet they have never really done anything to improve the business except raise taxes, ban smoking and generally take rights away from publicans - I should be allowed run my pub the way I want, within the law*

*Well you know what I mean!

You forgetting the law that makes off licences close at 10. And killing the cafe bar idea. I could think up a few more I'm sure.

FF has been the friend of the publican for decades.

Degag

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

Well even if they did this it would at least be some progress! I don't drink vodka but I know that a liter bottle in tesco is ~€30. Pubs will get this much cheaper if buying in bulk, but anyway...

A shot is supposed to be 35ml.

1000/35 = 28.57

28.57 X (on average) €4.50 = €128.57


28.57 X €2.50 = €71.43


By charging €2.50 you're still making well over 100% profit, even at supermarket prices! This kind of deal would definitely attract more customers and if pubs and clubs want to survive they're going to have to realize this.

People aren't stupid and protectionism is only going to drive more people away.

Not to be pedantic but a shot is 35.5ml.

In any case, it's not right to say that there is over 100% profit - because A. It's only the Gross Profit and B. You haven't taken the relatively substantial Taxes and Duties into account. There is definately scope for improvement there though, no doubt about it.

zagmund

Degag wrote: »

You're not going to sell one of your biggest selling spirits at cost price or slightly above cost price. You may sell a particular, cheaper brand of vodka at that price - but not a whole range.

Err, because . . .
1) a publican must make margin on every single drink he sells according to the big book of running a pub (1970s edition) ?
2) publicans don't understand loss-leaders ?
3) the other publicans wouldn't be his friend any more ?

Or how about . . .
1) Zag might say "I'm off to that pub that does 'cheaper' whiskey on a Tuesday night. I'll give the lads a ring. I know they don't drink whiskey but at least I'll get a deal and sure the lads will come along anyway. I'm sure the barman won't object to a few extra punters on a rainy Tuesday night in February"
2) Mrs Zag might say "I'm off to that pub that does cheaper Heino on a Wednesday. I'll give the girls a ring. I know they don't drink Heino but sure they can drink whatever else at full price. I'm sure the barman won't object."
3) Zag, Mrs Zag or any of the lads or ladies above might think of that pub next time they are going out for a drink and maybe drop in to see what the special deal is that night.

It's the inability of some publicans to see past this sort of "we must make money on every single thing we ever sell just like we did in the old days" thing that is driving customers away.

There's times I would love a packet of crisps when I'm out for a drink, but I just couldn't be arsed paying €1.50 or €2 for a tiny packet of crisps that I could get in the local Spar for less than €1. There's no need to have them at that price at all. The coffee shop that might sell about the same volume of crisps over a month doesn't charge that much. It doesn't need to - they sell themselves.

Apart from anything else, heading down to Lidl and picking up a few of their jumbo packets of crisps and putting them on the bar for punters to dip into (for free) is a surefire way to increase sales anyway. Crisps/peanuts/etc . . . are well known for making people thirsty.

As has been said by a number of posters above, the days of people heading out to the pub and handing over whatever is asked of them are just gone and it is going to be very hard to see them returning. Publicans need to realise this and not be trying to work out how to keep seeling the same product at the same price as before. Punters have already voted with their feet. Something has to change on the pub side before they come back. Sticking with the price isn't going to work. Sticking with the same product isn't going to work. Something has to change.

z

pippox

I've been put off a lot of pubs where the handwashing facilities are cold water and a broken hand dryer.
Any truth in the rumour that some venues turn off the boiler for hot water to save money?
How do the bar staff wash their hands?

mikemac

zagmund wrote: »

paying €1.50 or €2 for a tiny packet of crisps that I could get in the local Spar for less than €1.

:eek:
I've never paid above €1 in a pub, that's a serious rip off there

baltimore sun

god isn't this free market thing awful :rolleyes:

Dionysus

pippox wrote: »

I've been put off a lot of pubs where the handwashing facilities are cold water and a broken hand dryer.

This. The condition of so many toilets in Irish pubs is shameful beyond words. I'd like to think it's illegal also, but that would probably be overly optimistic.

Quite a good thread entitled Great Dublin pubs and their not so great toilets with the contact information to report pubs with substandard conditions in their toilets.

Degag

zagmund wrote: »

Err, because . . .
1) a publican must make margin on every single drink he sells according to the big book of running a pub (1970s edition) ?
2) publicans don't understand loss-leaders ?
3) the other publicans wouldn't be his friend any more ?

Loss Leading isn't really applicable in the pub trade. Huge chains of supermarkets are able to do it. Your corner store can't. Weatherspoons are able to do it in the UK, your local pub can't.

Or how about . . .
1) Zag might say "I'm off to that pub that does 'cheaper' whiskey on a Tuesday night. I'll give the lads a ring. I know they don't drink whiskey but at least I'll get a deal and sure the lads will come along anyway. I'm sure the barman won't object to a few extra punters on a rainy Tuesday night in February"
2) Mrs Zag might say "I'm off to that pub that does cheaper Heino on a Wednesday. I'll give the girls a ring. I know they don't drink Heino but sure they can drink whatever else at full price. I'm sure the barman won't object."
3) Zag, Mrs Zag or any of the lads or ladies above might think of that pub next time they are going out for a drink and maybe drop in to see what the special deal is that night.

Being very honest, neither me or any friends of mine are going to go to a pub solely because the drink is a bit cheaper. It's all about the atmosphere. If i said "Lads, the heino is only €3 in Maguires tonight, lets go there" They'll say "Fck that, Heino may be €4 in O'Sheas up the road, but that has a jukebox, a pool table, a friendly barman who might give us a lift home, friendly customers etc." then that's where we are going.

There's times I would love a packet of crisps when I'm out for a drink, but I just couldn't be arsed paying €1.50 or €2 for a tiny packet of crisps that I could get in the local Spar for less than €1. There's no need to have them at that price at all. The coffee shop that might sell about the same volume of crisps over a month doesn't charge that much. It doesn't need to - they sell themselves.

Apart from anything else, heading down to Lidl and picking up a few of their jumbo packets of crisps and putting them on the bar for punters to dip into (for free) is a surefire way to increase sales anyway. z

I've never paid that much for a packet of crisps, in any case i would refute your claims that free crisps and peanuts are going to drastically improve sales. "Oh where will we head tonight lads? Free peanuts in Mooneys? I'm sold lets go there!

Drink that is reasonably priced is only one reason why pubs are successful. It's a handful of factors really.

Reasonably priced drink
Good Quality drink
Well Heated/ Air Conditioned
Cleanliness
Friendly Staff
The odd lift home from the above
Finger food during matches etc.
Good Bathrooms
Poll Table/Cart Boards etc.
Local Taxi Service
Live Music
Big Screen Sky TV
Good Food if applicable
Variety of products

I'm sure there are more.

quietsailor

There's a pub on Barrack street in Cork called Tom Barry's. They put out crosswords so people on their way home from work call in and have a pint while they work on the crossword.

Also today I went into the Old Oak and got soup, a scone and coffee for E5. The group of us very reluctantly left that pub as we just had to many errands to attend to, any other day and we would have been settling in for the night. That would have been a huge trade for any pub - 10 people by what, 4-8 drinks. I'm after already telling a lot of my friends about this offer, they'll be going there, increasing the trade of that pub.

Both those pubs have an above average trade in the quiet parts of the week, why can't pub owners copy them?

On a side note Tom Barry's have a large space out back and as well as the picnic tables that are laid out for summer months as a beer garden they've made several snugs that have fireplaces in them. Its fantastic to look out at rain falling and to be next to a warm fire. Admittedly only a very small few pubs would have the space to do this but it shows some imaginative thinking at least

mikemac

Tuesday is dead in a lot of pubs

In Tipperary a few have what they call "the last supper"
Call in, have a drink and they'll give a bowl of stew for free
Nice on a cold winters night

Might seem very old fashioned and maybe a lot of people don't like stew but it gets the older drinkers in for a while.

Sure it costs very little to make and it's all about distinguishing yourself from the competition.
I suppose you could also throw out some baskets chips and cocktail sausages if you wanted for free to a group, again these cost very little but they encourage custom

quietsailor

feelingstressed wrote: »

Tuesday is dead in a lot of pubs

In Tipperary a few have what they call "the last supper"
Call in, have a drink and they'll give a bowl of stew for free
Nice on a cold winters night

Might seem very old fashioned and maybe a lot of people don't like stew but it gets the older drinkers in for a while.

Sure it costs very little to make and it's all about distinguishing yourself from the competition.
I suppose you could also throw out some chips and cocktail sausages if you wanted, again these cost very little

Nice one feelingstressed, that just reminded me that some pubs in Cork (I think the Bishopstown Bar in particular) who have carvery in the daytime have a pint and plate of food for E5 offer. Basically they will keep selling the food until the remains of the carvery are gone. It works well for everyone - the pub don't waste food and worse have to pay for it to be disposed, the customer gets a meak and a pint on the way home from work.

Sofiztikated

I had a big reply typed up, but the internet ate it.

Brief version.

Ardinn, now that you have gotten rid of the Sky sub, are you pushing the fact that you don't have it? The place for a pint and a chat?

How are your staff, can they converse? Or do they fire out the booze? How is their drink knowledge, do they know what a Mathattan is? Or is putting lemon into a Vodka fancy?

Could you even reduce the price of a pint by 5c, and heavily advertise that you are the cheapest pint in town?

I'd listen to starbelgrade, I've had my arguments with him, but he seems to know business, and is giving you advise.

Oh, and look into the splash machine. You shouldn't need to rip up any part of the bar, the gas and splash mix isn't that big, you can hide them under a counter easy enough. Still carry some bottles on the shelves, to give people a choice, but you have this as a cheaper option. And that frees up some retail space for some different beer options, that people keep bringing up that they want.

The main thing is to give the people what they want, not what you believe they want.

Fair play to you for trying. You do have a profit margin that needs to be protected at the end of the day, a pub IS a business, but with that it does need to evolve.

Dionysus

Biggins wrote: »

Absolute cobblers!

There was a case last year alone where a man who owns his own bar and was selling drink, was visited one day by two higher ranking members of the VFI and told without question, to raise the price of his drink.
This he refused to do. Apparently other VFI local members had been put out by him selling cheaper than they - so they complained - thus the men in suit visit.

Dionysus wrote: »

Would you have a reference for this anecdote, Biggins?

Biggins wrote: »

This particular incident was reported at the time in a local newspaper. It was subsequently picked up as a small story by one of the nationals, shoved in as a filler piece during the media "Silly Season".
The matter only came to my attention because my best man happened to work in the bar at the time and mentioned it to me.
I then last year mentioned it in another thread based around the alcohol industry.

A bit of searching around and I came across this story, originally from The Irish News (25.08.2009):

Portobello pub in Dublin warned by VFI over reducing pint to €3 (2009).

mikemac

But what have the VFI got to do with a Dublin pub?
Even if you go to the VFI website they don't list pubs for Dublin

The VFI is a strong National Trade Association for pubs outside the greater Dublin area.

The Licensed Vintners Association (LVA) is the trade association and representative body for the publicans of Dublin.

It's the LVA who deal with Dublin

I wonder if the Irish News got all their facts right or did that story ever happen at all? Could be a myth

Degag

Sofiztikated wrote: »

How are your staff, can they converse? Or do they fire out the booze? How is their drink knowledge, do they know what a Mathattan is? Or is putting lemon into a Vodka fancy?

You don't judge a barman by whether he can make a Manhatten or not. (Unless it's a cocktail bar)

Sofiztikated

Degag wrote: »

You don't judge a barman by whether he can make a Manhatten or not. (Unless it's a cocktail bar)

True that, but the theory still stands sound. How is their knowledge of what they are serving? My point was to get Ardinn to examine his staff, and see where he could improve them. The cocktail was just an example.

Degag

Sofiztikated wrote: »

True that, but the theory still stands sound. How is their knowledge of what they are serving? My point was to get Ardinn to examine his staff, and see where he could improve them. The cocktail was just an example.

Ardinn sounds like he's a very competant publican. Staff are probably the least of his concern.

Potential-Monke

The price of drink definitely needs to come down in most places. Gone are the days of paying €4.20 for a pint, when for €10 i can get 12 cans of beer nicer than most bar beers. But the downside is that the bars here that have reduced the price of a pint to €3 are now full of scum, so no enjoyment there.

Also, the staff have a huge part to play with me liking a bar. I cannot understand how bar owners allow ignorant full of themselves pretty boys/girls to work for them. When i order a drink, i want a nice gesture of understanding, not a tut and a reluctance to get something. This is very prevalent in clubs, and is why i try to avoid going to clubs anymore.

Maybe cuz i'm getting older, but i just love the old style country pubs where you can have a chat and a game of pool without having to worry about some twat knocking over your pint or starting a fight, or even being able to sit/stand without some other twat bumping into you, that drives me fookin bananers!!!