The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

rubadub

benjamin d wrote: »

the fact is that the vast majority of people only want their guinness/heineken/carlsberg/pisswater to be sold in their local.

I doubt this, as in they might want their piss on tap but I doubt they would complain if it was the ONLY beer available -i.e. nobody is going to complain about a better choice. The most poorly stocked offlicences have far better selection than most pubs.

benjamin d wrote: »

But look at the quality of them - Bavaria, Dutch Gold and that kind of stuff? Absolute muck. Bavaria is €3 in a lot of places now and students are the only ones that drink it. I can't stomach the stuff.

I would rate all the beers you mentioned as comparable quality wise, i.e. heineken on a par with bavaria. People have very odd snobbish ideas about beers. Heineken is one of the cheapest beers out there now, and so it should be. If people did proper blind tastes they might be very suprised -some of the beer fans in the beer forum did proper tests and were shocked. Others did comparisons with cans vs bottles and found little difference (blind tests are essential).

I already mentioned a several places selling cans and have not heard any reason why other pubs should not start.

I also have yet to see figures to show the likes of centra sell heineken at a loss at €15 for 20 bottles.

Degag wrote: »

You're not going to sell one of your biggest selling spirits at cost price or slightly above cost price. You may sell a particular, cheaper brand of vodka at that price - but not a whole range.

Degag wrote: »

Loss Leading isn't really applicable in the pub trade. .

I think this is the sixth time for me to mention diceys sell below cost -I trust you guys with ignore it once again, keep that head well in the sand lads....

Degag

rubadub wrote: »

I think this is the sixth time for me to mention diceys sell below cost -I trust you guys with ignore it once again, keep that head well in the sand lads....

What do they sell below cost and when do they sell it? (Sorry if you have said this before, i haven't seen it)

Regarding stock, i can guanantee if pubs starting getting speciality beers etc, there would be dust and cobwebs on them in alot of places before long.

discus

Degag wrote: »

What do they sell below cost and when do they sell it? (Sorry if you have said this before, i haven't seen it)

Regarding stock, i can guanantee if pubs starting getting speciality beers etc, there would be dust and cobwebs on them in alot of places before long.

Yeah, because they get them in, and charge 6.20/6.30 for a 500ml bottle.

Degag

discus wrote: »

Yeah, because they get them in, and charge 6.20/6.30 for a 500ml bottle.

Hardly relavant seeing that alot of pubs charge that price for 330ml bottles of "piss."

discus

It's entirely relevent.

The pub trade is dying.
People claim they want better choice and lower prices.
Publicans bring in a little more choice, and the same prices.
Customers complain about price.
Publican (or degag, a barman) tells us that price is relevent, "sure isn't that what you pay anyway"
The customer doesn't buy either the new choice or the old choice.
The publican blames everyone else for his woes.

TPD

I'd visit pubs way more regularly if each had its own micro brewery, and individual ale. 'Twould be class.

iPlop

TPD wrote: »

I'd visit pubs way more regularly if each had its own micro brewery, and individual ale. 'Twould be class.

That's why the porterhouse is one of the best pubs around IMO

Degag

discus wrote: »

It's entirely relevent.

The pub trade is dying.
People claim they want better choice and lower prices.
Publicans bring in a little more choice, and the same prices.
Customers complain about price.
Publican (or degag, a barman) tells us that price is relevent, "sure isn't that what you pay anyway"
The customer doesn't buy either the new choice or the old choice.
The publican blames everyone else for his woes.

I'm not saying that price isn't relevant. Of course it is. It's not relevant in the point you were making about speciality beers though. Publicans sell lots of Heineken and Budweiser 330ml bottles at €6 a pop. If people won't buy 500ml bottles of speciality beers at the same price, what hope do they have? All i know is that if we sold speciality beers - even at 20% less than the others - the vast majority of them would be on the shelf in 6 months time. That's only my pubs situation, but i think alot of pubs would have a similar problem.

discus

Hold up, does your pub charge 6 euro for a long neck beer? Do you not think your customers would resent that?

Dionysus

TPD wrote: »

I'd visit pubs way more regularly if each had its own micro brewery, and individual ale. 'Twould be class.

Amen. And that would, finally, be a genuinely "traditional Irish pub". People are generally oblivious to the fact that micro breweries were in each and every pub in Ireland until the rise of Guinness and its new English drink, porter, from the late eighteenth century on. Ale is a much more "Irish" drink than porter/stout in the sense that, unlike the latter, it existed here in the medieval period.

Sofiztikated

I will back Degag up on this one, we had some specialty beers in the hotel here, and were selling them at ~ same price as regular beers, and we did have a range of about 8 different, including a really tasty one that was flavoured with tequila, Desperados I believe it was.

The majority of them went out of date, because people looked at them, and went for a pint/bottle of Heineken (our biggest seller) or Budweiser (our second biggest seller).

You can give people a huge choice, but most people want what they know.

matrim

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I will back Degag up on this one, we had some specialty beers in the hotel here, and were selling them at ~ same price as regular beers, and we did have a range of about 8 different, including a really tasty one that was flavoured with tequila, Desperados I believe it was.

The majority of them went out of date, because people looked at them, and went for a pint/bottle of Heineken (our biggest seller) or Budweiser (our second biggest seller).

You can give people a huge choice, but most people want what they know.

Desperados is awful stuff but some people do like it.

Did you advertise these beers and make it well known you had them? Having them in a fridge that can only be seen from one small point in the bar doesn't count as advertising.

Also how many did you order? Surely the best thing would be to order max 3 cases of each at first and see if those sell. If they do order more / larger quantities. With 3 cases you'd probably only need to sell 1 beer a week to make sure they were all sold before going off.

ScumLord

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I will back Degag up on this one, we had some specialty beers in the hotel here, and were selling them at ~ same price as regular beers, and we did have a range of about 8 different, including a really tasty one that was flavoured with tequila, Desperados I believe it was.

I've had Deserados and really liked it but I don't think it's a high brow drink. As far as I can remember the reason we got it was because it was cheap.

iPlop

ScumLord wrote: »

I've had Deserados and really liked it but I don't think it's a high brow drink. As far as I can remember the reason we got it was because it was cheap.

Can pubs get Erdinger or german beers on tap?

mikemac

Sure can, a few places have Erdinger on tap and their cool glasses

iPlop

feelingstressed wrote: »

Sure can, a few places have Erdinger on tap and their cool glasses

I must find one of these places.That's what would bring me back into the pub ,instead paying over the odds for p!ssberg which I wouldn't even bring into my own home.It's always the same 4 or 5 beers on tap ,same for the last 30 years

kingtut

Apart from people losing their jobs I don't see any problem with pubs closing!!

Pub vs. Home

Pub - Expensive drink, noisy, no room to move, has a closing time, have to pay for taxi home, limited range of snacks.

Home - Cheap drink, invite whoever you want, no closing time, no taxi needed, watch whatever tv you want, eat whatever you want.

....and the VFI claim that the pub is where the fun is

matrim

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Can pubs get Erdinger or german beers on tap?

Alot more places are starting to have Erdinger or Paulaner in bottles and a few have them in on tap. On tap I think Erdinger would be slightly more popular, which is unfortunate as I prefer Paulaner

From my experience in Dublin maybe 1 in 5 have bottles and 1 in 10 might have them on tap

iPlop

kingtut wrote: »

Apart from people losing their jobs I don't see any problem with pubs closing!!

Pub vs. Home

Pub - Expensive drink, noisy, no room to move, has a closing time, have to pay for taxi home, limited range of snacks.

Home - Cheap drink, invite whoever you want, no closing time, no taxi needed, watch whatever tv you want, eat whatever you want.

....and the VFI claim that the pub is where the fun is

Exactly and the answer is to make cans of beer in the offie the same price as a pint:rolleyes:Ya that'll bring em back ,id be up north before you could say beer!

ScumLord

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Can pubs get Erdinger or german beers on tap?

I'd imagine if they really want to they can get whatever they like on tap as long as there's people who want to buy it.

iPlop

matrim wrote: »

Alot more places are starting to have Erdinger or Paulaner in bottles and a few have them in on tap. On tap I think Erdinger would be slightly more popular, which is unfortunate as I prefer Paulaner

From my experience in Dublin maybe 1 in 5 have bottles and 1 in 10 might have them on tap

Paulaner is very nice ,some Franzis Kaner on tap would be sweet

mikemac

There are a lot of links between pubs and the local sports team. Often you will find the local GAA team sponsored by a local pub.

And this goes up to corporate level with the Guinness Hurling Championship

I predict a day though it might be hard to see now when alcohol sports sponsorship will be gone in Ireland

Bit off an offtopic post but affects thousands of pubs in every county

Sofiztikated

matrim wrote: »

Desperados is awful stuff but some people do like it.

Did you advertise these beers and make it well known you had them? Having them in a fridge that can only be seen from one small point in the bar doesn't count as advertising.

Also how many did you order? Surely the best thing would be to order max 3 cases of each at first and see if those sell. If they do order more / larger quantities. With 3 cases you'd probably only need to sell 1 beer a week to make sure they were all sold before going off.

Honestly, I have no idea who bought what, or amounts. I just know it was there, and it went off.

(I thought it was tasty enough, but obviously other people didn't/don't. This is the risk you take when you get in specialty beers.)

Degag

discus wrote: »

Hold up, does your pub charge 6 euro for a long neck beer? Do you not think your customers would resent that?

No, considerably less than that.

Naikon

Problem is, most pub regulars don't want fancy beers. I love craft beer, but I do understand the regular beers are essential for survival. I hate cheap beer. I don't dictate the markets however.

macquarie

matrim wrote: »

Alot more places are starting to have Erdinger or Paulaner in bottles and a few have them in on tap. On tap I think Erdinger would be slightly more popular, which is unfortunate as I prefer Paulaner

From my experience in Dublin maybe 1 in 5 have bottles and 1 in 10 might have them on tap

Tripod have paulaner on tap anyway

zagmund

Degag wrote: »

I'm not saying that price isn't relevant. Of course it is. It's not relevant in the point you were making about speciality beers though. Publicans sell lots of Heineken and Budweiser 330ml bottles at €6 a pop. If people won't buy 500ml bottles of speciality beers at the same price, what hope do they have? All i know is that if we sold speciality beers - even at 20% less than the others - the vast majority of them would be on the shelf in 6 months time. That's only my pubs situation, but i think alot of pubs would have a similar problem.

But you see, this is part of the problem. It's kind of like one of those self-selecting surveys . . .

The kind of people who already pay large amounts of money for a longneck may well be the type that aren't terribly discerning anyway (and I mean that in a nice way - they don't mind which beer they buy so new fancy beer may not necessarily interest them).

The kind of people who might go for the speciality beer are the ones who know how much it costs, who know how much they can get it for in other places, etc . . . and who *will* object to paying over the odds for it, just because some other chimps who go to the same bar don't mind paying over the odds for generic stuff.

And, I never said that peanuts would dramatically increase sales - I said it was guaranteed to increase sales. Big difference. It makes people feel they are getting something, it makes them thirsty, they drink more.

What has been presented here on this thread and others are various ways for pubs to differentiate themselves from the rest. The only way that individual pubs are going to survive in the future are a) by being the lucky one that lasts the longest while the competition goes bust or b) by differentiating and making itself a place that punters choose to come to and actually encouraging customers to choose this pub rather than the others.

I'm not saying that every pub should adopt every suggestion on this thread, but it's possibly worth noting what the customers are saying.

And finally - what is it with this loss leader thing - why do you think it doesn't apply to pubs ? It can, if pubs try it. It's been suggested over and over. The principle is the same as supermarkets, just smaller. Spar does it - 2 Lucozades for €1. People come in, buy their Lucozade, pick up a paper, buy some sweets, etc . . . and end up spending more than the loss the retailer makes on the Lucozade. The end result may be that the retailer has only made a few pence on the overall transaction, but he's made more money thatn if he didn't have the loss leader to lure people on. Of course it can work in pubs.

z

the_syco

Sofiztikated wrote: »

You shouldn't need to rip up any part of the bar, the gas and splash mix isn't that big, you can hide them under a counter easy enough.

It makes a lot of noise. But it delivers ice cold coke, so I likes it.

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Can pubs get Erdinger or german beers on tap?

Pretty Sure Fibbers in Dublin do so, in their own special glass.

=-=

Oh, and as for new drinks: if it's cider, let people know it's cider. I for one will try new cider. Heck, whenever I goto the PorterHouse, I try a new cider

Likewise if the beer is a "vice" beer. I have no idea what vice beer is (I only drink cider and Southern Comfort), but a lot of my friends will drink it. So advertise it (big writing) "VICE BEER", (small writing) "name of beer". Will allow the punters to taste something new. If your bar is the only bar that servers X stuff on tap, people will come to you for that one drink, and will bring their friends.

senordingdong

ardinn wrote: »

Their is a 4.10 charge per case, redeemable on return - so it makes no difference unless your breaking hundreds.

It makes some difference.
But like I said, both sellers are selling two different products that they got for two different prices.

pippox

Another big problem for pubs at the moment is the price of a bar extension. It's making it very difficult for promoters trying to run any kind of non-mainstream event. Owners and managers are understandably reluctant to organise bar extensions unless a promoter can guarantee that an event will pack their venue. This is by no means one of the bigger issues facing pubs, but it is stopping a lot of events from going ahead, and surely must be having a knock-on effect sales?