The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

mikemac

It was Michael McDowell who ended the happy hours

He has signed an order which brings most of the provisions of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 into operation from Monday. Under the order:

-'Happy hour' drinks promotions will be banned.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=5148

People are giving the VFI too much credit

And the VFI don't operate in Dublin either, that's the LVA
They cooperate on most issues of course, same interests and goals

ardinn

Sc@recrow wrote: »

and again complete bollix....
Pint down in Limerick..about €4.50..bottle of corona? €5 so not much cheaper..at least not enough to justify going to a pub.
Most pubs now have a smoking area so the women doesn't feel like a prositute outside having a ciggie:eek:

Fact of the matter is Hotels/pubs have been ripping off people for many years now, people didn't care when they had loads of money but now that we're in a recession every cent counts.
So I can skip my pub at the weekend and not spend the €100 or so on a night out, instead I can buy a 24 pack of Corona for €20 and have it last me the week...
It wouldn't matter if the supermarkets had to sell it dearer...people will just cut out both together so then everyone is screwed.

A pint of what for €4.50? lager wouldnt be too far off the mark - at the higher end but not excessive! - Drink miller instead of corona then as its much cheaper than corona, there is about €15 in the difference per case "for the publican" iirc. Our local has 2 miller for €5.

The point of the smoking statement was still people feel like 2nd class citizens having to leave the bar for a cigarette, im not talking about people in their 20's either, im talking about older people 40+ who dont want to have to go to a shed or whatever the pub has to offer, Alot of pubs do offer great smoking areas, other just cant afford or dont have the space to do it.

Some hotels and bars rip people off, but if you go to a bar that has spent millions on refurbishment, or a club or whatever, they have to make it back - it is a business after all!

Blazer

Temptamperu wrote: »

Happy hours have been illegal the past ten years though

well I did say a few years ago Didn't realise they'd been illegal for that long...
I remember people saying that ending happy hours would end all this drink fueled crime/fighting/alcohol dependency etc ...how did that turn out..eh? :rolleyes:

ardinn

Sc@recrow wrote: »

I'd back it up except that chap that owned that pub died a couple of years ago.. He used to run a 3 hour "happy hour" every friday night and was cleaning all the other pubs out in the town I lived.
Diageo didn't own Guinness at the time so maybe things has changed etc but he had the local VFI rep call in to him and spell out exactly what would happen if he didn't withdraw the happy hours.

False - the vfi never had an interest on what people charged in the past, they do now, but thats because they are trying to get publicans to bring prices down where possible.

Fighting Irish

RichieC wrote: »

nothing's a ripoff my hole.

how many times social gatherings such as weddings or christenings have compelled people into pubs for long hours? Ah sure just drink coke then! *buzzz*

:rolleyes: No point even arguing with you!

Blazer

ardinn wrote: »

False - the vfi never had an interest on what people charged in the past, they do now, but thats because they are trying to get publicans to bring prices down where possible.

Well you can claim false...and I can claim true..
Besides..everyone knows it's not the supermarkets that's the problem,..it's the outrageous pub prices that people just aren't prepared to pay..
How can pub owners not see this? They know people are struggling big time yet they want them to pay ridiculous prices for drink

mikemac

ardinn wrote: »

False - the vfi never had an interest on what people charged in the past,

Yet they and the LVA had a nationwide policy for a price freeze. Setting national policies but you're saying they had no interest?

In an important victory for the Competition Authority, the Irish High Court has required two associations of vintners – representing upwards of 5,500 Irish publicans – to abandon a recommendation of a “one year price freeze” on drink prices in pubs.

Couched as a pro-consumer response to worsening economic conditions when announced in late 2008, Irish publicans had rebuffed repeated Competition Authority demands to cease the price freeze arguing that it was “fundamentally different” to anticompetitive price- setting and, at the same time, justified due to difficult trading conditions for publicans.

While the Court did not ultimately rule on those arguments, the Court did find the associations in contempt of court for breach of previous court undertakings not to recommend prices.

ardinn

mikemac wrote: »

The VFI had got huge publicity and also a lot of criticism last year or maybe the year before about their policy of a price freeze

Are they now asking their members to reduce prices?

Where possible! Not asking to reduce, but getting pubs to look into what they can do to maybe make the night cheaper for people.

The price freeze was brought in to try and send the message pubs would not increase prices, the competition authority had a fanny attack over it as it meant it would also stop reductions, which it actually wouldnt have, it wasnt a blanket "freeze" military style, just a statement that with the recession pubs would not be increasing their prices, It was branded incorrectly by the vfi in fairness but was meant as a good thing, But people immediately took th CA view as pubs trying to pull a swindle, and as usual, publican got the greedy tag!

mikemac

My ninja edit didn't work

But it was the same point anyway

ardinn

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Well you can claim false...and I can claim true..
Besides..everyone knows it's not the supermarkets that's the problem,..it's the outrageous pub prices that people just aren't prepared to pay..
How can pub owners not see this? They know people are struggling big time yet they want them to pay ridiculous prices for drink

Publicans are also struggling big time, they actually cant reduce prices, 1 pub a day is closing for the last 3 years, do you think that a) its because the pub is now so full of money they have nowhere left to store it - or, b) maybe the cost of running a pub/business in this country is extortionate?

the_syco

aidan24326 wrote: »

introduced special offers

This was partly outlawed when "happy hour" was banned to protect the family, off-licenses cut to protect the children...

Weissbier wrote: »

In Ennis for example that night there was only 2 pubs open, as people gave the publicans the two fingers to the £50 (not euro) per person entry fee to the pubs, which did not even include a complimentary drink or finger food.

Aye, local pub where I was working in at the time had the same. Half the people there were staff.

mikemac wrote: »

Let's see a JD Wetherspoons in the country.

I've heard about them. They're sh|t. I hope we get one in Dublin.

=-=

I think that the most sudden decline of people going to pubs happened when the offie was cut from 23:30 to 22:00

In the past people would goto the pub, then offie at home. Now they just goto the offie.

Uriel.

ardinn wrote: »

Publicans are also struggling big time, they actually cant reduce prices, 1 pub a day is closing for the last 3 years, do you think that a) its because the pub is now so full of money they have nowhere left to store it - or, b) maybe the cost of running a pub/business in this country is extortionate?

Cost reductions would be a start like every other business in Ireland...
They can't reduce prices you say??? Do they need to charge €2 for a dash of blackcurrent, after paying 4.50 to €6.00 for your meager shot of a spirit? Fair enough, not all do, but plenty do and other extortionate prices to go with it!

If pubs are closing down at that rate it's because they don't offer value for money and because there are quite simply, just too many pubs to begin with.

Every other business has to slash and burn or be creative in order to survive.

stimpson

ardinn wrote: »

Publicans are also struggling big time, they actually cant reduce prices, 1 pub a day is closing for the last 3 years, do you think that a) its because the pub is now so full of money they have nowhere left to store it - or, b) maybe the cost of running a pub/business in this country is extortionate?

It is because they have priced themselves out of business. They are charging more than the market will bear. The cost of living in the country is extortionate, including the price of drink.

I know pubs in Dublin city Centre where you can get a pint of Craft beer for 3.50. I know one where you can get a 4 pint pitcher for €12. Neither are kips. Why would I spend more?

BigDuffman

Caveman1 wrote: »

My local had a special deal on for the All Ireland Final, 3 bottles of beer for €10 this to me was still robbery as they bought the boxes of beer in the supermarket for no more than €20, so if they sell 6 bottles that covers the cost of each box, then they have the rest to sell for pure profit.

Really? A business operating to make a profit :eek:

You could also go out and buy a nice bit of steak yourself and cook it for a fraction of the price you'd pay in a restaurant. But the feckers have the cheek to add on costs such as staffing, insurance, rent so as that they can operate a business.

ardinn

Uriel. wrote: »

Cost reductions would be a start like every other business in Ireland...
They can't reduce prices you say??? Do they need to charge €2 for a dash of blackcurrent, after paying 4.50 to €6.00 for your meager shot of a spirit? Fair enough, not all do, but plenty do and other extortionate prices to go with it!

If pubs are closing down at that rate it's because they don't offer value for money and because there are quite simply, just too many pubs to begin with.

Every other business has to slash and burn or be creative in order to survive.

Yes you can say that all these people never tried ANYTHING to curb the downfall, and were just happy to go down and lose their livelihoods without a fight or any such cost cutting initiatives!!

And the prices you quote are the exception, not the rule! But if you want to bunch every pub and publican into the same bracket then go ahead.

ardinn

stimpson wrote: »

I know pubs in Dublin city Centre where you can get a pint of Craft beer for 3.50. I know one where you can get a 4 pint pitcher for €12. Neither are kips. Why would I spend more?

I dont know, why would you? Thats good value!

Icyseanfitz

i know of a few bars that buy their drink from offies and then sell it at 5 times the price in their bar :rolleyes: is it any wonder their going under, i can buy 20 cans of beer for 20 euro, yet a can/bottle in a pub costs 4-5 euro

a club in our town had a recent promotion on Saturdays with 2 euro drinks (all pints, bottles and certain shots) and the place was mobbed every Saturday night

Blazer

ardinn wrote: »

Publicans are also struggling big time, they actually cant reduce prices, 1 pub a day is closing for the last 3 years, do you think that a) its because the pub is now so full of money they have nowhere left to store it - or, b) maybe the cost of running a pub/business in this country is extortionate?

well I won't disagree that rates/costs are extortionate in this country...I work in IT and know that energywise Ireland is the 2nd dearest country in the EU for it...but that doesn't mean you can rip off your customers also.
And of course pubs can reduce prices, lots of pubs do food etc, there's an opportunity there to provide value for money etc..

Sarn

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

a club in our town had a recent promotion on Saturdays with 2 euro drinks (all pints, bottles and certain shots) and the place was mobbed every Saturday night

I was out last night in Dublin city centre and they had the same offer on. The place was jammed by 7 pm. It also helps that they have a great smoking area.

jack presley

ardinn wrote: »

1 pub a day is closing for the last 3 years

I wasn't aware of it being that bad. Have over 1000 pubs really closed in the last 3 years? How many pubs are there left by the way? Just curious to see the percentages.

mikemac

Harbourmaster by the IFSC in Dublin used to have two euro all drinks every Thursday and Friday.
Jammed with office workers those nights
Not sure if that's still going, not been in that area in a long while

Publicans have to do something to make themselves stand out.
And you know what Bertie tells you about those who are cribbing and moaning on the sidelines

Ally Dick

I had to laugh. There was a publican on the Frontline last week who wanted the government to give her a hackney licence, so she could drive her regular customers home from the pub, and charge them for doing so ! No wonder the pub trade is in such a state. What customer is going to agree to that ?

Degag

Ally Dick wrote: »

I had to laugh. There was a publican on the Frontline last week who wanted the government to give her a hackney licence, so she could drive her regular customers home from the pub, and charge them for doing so ! No wonder the pub trade is in such a state. What customer is going to agree to that ?

Lots of people IMO. I watched it too asnd the impression i got was that she didn't want to make money from doing it, just cover the cost of the petrol etc.

ardinn

Ally Dick wrote: »

I had to laugh. There was a publican on the Frontline last week who wanted the government to give her a hackney licence, so she could drive her regular customers home from the pub, and charge them for doing so ! No wonder the pub trade is in such a state. What customer is going to agree to that ?

The point she was making was not to be given a licence so she could charge for it - it was so pubs could by proper transport vehicles and claim for cost involved. My local spent nearly 30k on a minibus and couldnt claim it as a commercial vehicle, even though there is no rural transport network - its a joke!

General General

Since the downturn has shut most of the business leaders & economic gurus the f.u.ck up, the Irish Pub is one of the few sources of bull**** left in this country.

Don't let us fall behind internationally in this sector too.

pickarooney

ScumLord wrote: »

A 50% mark up is common on just about any product sold by anyone.

Assuming there are nine beers in a box, yes.

ardinn

Sc@recrow wrote: »

well I won't disagree that rates/costs are extortionate in this country...I work in IT and know that energywise Ireland is the 2nd dearest country in the EU for it...but that doesn't mean you can rip off your customers also.
And of course pubs can reduce prices, lots of pubs do food etc, there's an opportunity there to provide value for money etc..

If you knew whats involved - you would soon see they are not (mostly - bad eggs in every henhouse) How is doing food going to reduce prices?? Restaurants are under the same pressure!

ardinn

jack presley wrote: »

I wasn't aware of it being that bad. Have over 1000 pubs really closed in the last 3 years? How many pubs are there left by the way? Just curious to see the percentages.

Not sure tbh - But the 1 a day is correct!

mikemac

A quick google got results from some Mayo politican
One a day is not far off

Rural pubs are in meltdown with new information released exclusively to Fine Gael Mayo Deputy John O’Mahony showing that almost three hundreds pubs a year, every year are closing down.
Deputy O’Mahony pressed the Department of Finance on the issue and received information showing that, across the country, 833 pub licences were not renewed in the period 2007 to 200

At the same time it's not that much of a shock

I anyway and some of you came from villages with a national school, a church, a post office, one shop and four pubs.
And the post office closed years ago and An Post won't reopen it :mad:

Villages can't support these many pubs forever.

Another example was Borrisoleigh in North Tipp, small town of under two thousand and have seven pubs along or off the main street.
It doesn't take much of a downturn or our greedy council to jack up rates to put many of these in trouble

Paparazzo

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Prices are determined by the customer!!!!!

Business' are there to make money, as much as possible!!

Nothing is a rip off, nobody forces anyone to buy anything!

Just because you're not paying it, doesn't mean it's not a rip off. I know pubs that charge €6 a pint. I won't darken their door, but it's certainly still a rip off.

stimpson wrote: »

It is because they have priced themselves out of business. They are charging more than the market will bear. The cost of living in the country is extortionate, including the price of drink.

I know pubs in Dublin city Centre where you can get a pint of Craft beer for 3.50. I know one where you can get a 4 pint pitcher for €12. Neither are kips. Why would I spend more?

If you're talking about The Gingerman, I went in there yesterday and had a pint of Writers Red for €3.50 and the place was jammed. On a wednesday at 7pm. Now, wonder how many people would be in there if they charged €5.50 a pint?

1 pub a day closing is no surprise. No one to blame but themselves though.