The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

whydoibother?

Whether we want to achieve economic growth through drinking is highly questionable for reasons of social well-being.

If somebody wants to make an economic argument in favour of growing the pub industry fine, but please include in your calculations an honest estimation the cost the health service.

Would anyone argue that getting people to spend more on fast food would be a wise move?

Capt'n Midnight

bryaner wrote: »

Please explain the VFI so..

I'm tired of seeing the VFI singled out for constant abuse :mad:




























The LVA also deserve a roasting.



If anyone has any doubt that the organisation of Dublin pubs and the organisation of rest of Ireland pubs are a cartel then look at what they posted on their site.
http://www.vfi.ie/News/LVA-and-VFI-announce-end-to-Price-Freeze-with-immediate-effect

Following correspondence with both associations, the Competition Authority commenced proceedings against the two associations in April 2009 for contempt of Court. The Competition Authority alleged that the ‘price freeze' constituted a breach, by each association, of undertakings given pursuant to the terms of settlement of previous proceedings which had been settled in 2003 and 2005 respectively. Those settlement terms are the subject of a Court Order in respect of each association.

At the request of the Competition Authority, the issue to be determined by the High Court was whether the price freeze was in breach of one of the undertakings referred to above, relating to price recommendations. The High Court has found as a matter of construction that the price freeze was in contravention of that undertaking.

Capt'n Midnight

bbam wrote: »

Most towns in Ireland have too many pubs.. they don't have a "right" to stay in business... I'd say that half the pubs in any town could close and there would still be enough places to go out....
There are so many that are just there to money grab rather than provide a decent experience for the punter...

Actually you are spot on there.

http://queerid.com/topic.aspx?topicid=14105

01/12/2008
The LVA and VFI said during the last 10 years the volume of alcohol sold in pubs has dropped from 68% to 32%, while sales from supermarkets and off licences rose.

rubadub

rasper wrote: »

alcohol being sold in supermarkets and the pub trade are 2 different markets

The customer can see them as very similar. The drop in people going to pubs can snowball, most people have a big screen TV in their home so its 50/50 whether to go down the pub on an afternoon to watch a match, and knowing it is going to be pretty empty they might just stay at home -sure of a comfy seat, clean toilet, better service, beer they actual want, snacks they want etc -and a fraction of the price to top it all off.

Chuck Stone

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It influences government to pass laws which don't suit the majority. Like closing the off licences at 10pm for some pathetic reason.

But hey - that's how democracydoesn't work.

I thought of this thread when I read this qoute.

Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.

Otto Von Bismarck

I dont agree with fixing a minimum price for alcohol in supermarkets but equally I would hate to see the pub trade dying. While I dont mind having a few drinks at home from time to time Its just not the same as going to pubs and clubs.

I sit at home most nights of the week and like to get out to the pub rather than spend another night sitting in drinking. Its never going to be as much craic sitting at home and it would get quite boring doing it regularly.

ronwan

"I sit at home most nights of the week and like to get out to the pub rather than spend another night sitting in drinking. Its never going to be as much craic sitting at home."

You're dead right, that is why the pubs have to realise this, that the offie market is a completely different market, they have to get off their holes, lower prices and restore the whole pub scene to the social hub it used to be and stop blaming everyone else for their lack of foresight and imagination.

bryaner

ardinn wrote: »

Its an organization like any union. Working on behalf of its members!!

Is this really the opinion of people?? Thats its a cartel?

The VFI is there to represent it's members. Its an organization like any union.

Lol have you only moved to Ireland recently?

bryaner

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I'm tired of seeing the VFI singled out for constant abuse :mad:




























The LVA also deserve a roasting.



If anyone has any doubt that the organisation of Dublin pubs and the organisation of rest of Ireland pubs are a cartel then look at what they posted on their site.
http://www.vfi.ie/News/LVA-and-VFI-announce-end-to-Price-Freeze-with-immediate-effect

The VFI are a well known bunch of racketeers and have the price fixed all over my local town, I know a few publicans and can back it up, there is one non VFI in the town selling beer a lot cheaper, but it's a kip because it's the only one thats so low..

Red Silurian

What's to stop bars reducing the price of alcohol? The only discount we've had on beer in the last 5 years is last year when the government reduced their tax on pints, half pints, wines and spirits! I know that there's a few places that have reduced their prices on certain beers but most pubs are just too greedy!

senordingdong

bryaner wrote: »

The VFI are a well known bunch of racketeers and have the price fixed all over my local town, I know a few publicans and can back it up, there is one non VFI in the town selling beer a lot cheaper, but it's a kip because it's the only one thats so low..

Surprised the others haven't run him out of town.

bryaner

senordingdong wrote: »

Surprised the others haven't run him out of town.

Yes he does seem to buck the trend..

Fran1985

colmtheperson wrote: »

What's to stop bars reducing the price of alcohol?

I have to say, i don't mind paying 4 - 4.50 for a pint, we've some sound barmen, and there's always a bit of craic, but pubs just have to realise that people cant do that every night of the week any more because the money just isn't there. Unfortunately though, if pubs start reducing prices, they'll just attract all sorts of dirt bags and who wants a royal rumble in their pub on every Sunday afternoon?

bryaner

Fran1985 wrote: »

I have to say, i don't mind paying 4 - 4.50 for a pint, we've some sound barmen, and there's always a bit of craic, but pubs just have to realise that people cant do that every night of the week any more because the money just isn't there. Unfortunately though, if pubs start reducing prices, they'll just attract all sorts of dirt bags and who wants a royal rumble in their pub on every Sunday afternoon?

There wouldn't be any trouble if all the pub's dropped their prices, the royal rumble type event only occurs when a few non VFI pub's sell cheap beer, if they all were singing of the same hymn sheet it would be fine..

StudentDad

bryaner wrote: »

Fran1985 wrote: »

I have to say, i don't mind paying 4 - 4.50 for a pint, we've some sound barmen, and there's always a bit of craic, but pubs just have to realise that people cant do that every night of the week any more because the money just isn't there. Unfortunately though, if pubs start reducing prices, they'll just attract all sorts of dirt bags and who wants a royal rumble in their pub on every Sunday afternoon?

There wouldn't be any trouble if all the pub's dropped their prices, the royal rumble type event only occurs when a few non VFI pub's sell cheap beer, if they all were singing of the same hymn sheet it would be fine..

I was at a wedding recently and frankly the price of drink in the hotel bar was extortionate.

So given the choice between buying a couple of pints with my shopping or going to the pub I'll take the off licence thanks.

SD

StephenHendry

StudentDad wrote: »

I was at a wedding recently and frankly the price of drink in the hotel bar was extortionate.

So given the choice between buying a couple of pints with my shopping or going to the pub I'll take the off licence thanks.

SD

at a lot of weddings hotels put up their prices after 12 , and other times without telling their guests. they really do take the biscuit here and then they are the very people who have a go at off -licenses for their charges on alcohol,

Faing

The whole leisure/tourism sector is fecked up. Board Failte spend millions of euro on trying to entice visitors to come here to little or no avail. Quite simply, Ireland is TOO EXPENSIVE to enjoy a night out. We have had 3 lots of visitors come to stay with us this year and each and every one of them has commented on how expensive everything is, especially the cost of a night out. Pints, on average, are twice the price of the UK equivalents,almost treble the Spanish price too, British tourists used to account for a large proportion of Ireland's tourist trade.
So as for fixing a minimum price........thats a joke.

ScumLord

Faing wrote: »

The whole leisure/tourism sector is fecked up. Board Failte spend millions of euro on trying to entice visitors to come here to little or no avail. Quite simply, Ireland is TOO EXPENSIVE to enjoy a night out.

I don't think it's as simple as that. Pubs that are just drinking holes have had there time and the fad is over. People don't want to go out getting steamboats in the middle of the week. Unless they have something else to sell to people other than drink I don't think they'll ever get the custom back.

mikemac

Bord Fáilte clearly not getting their message across

They changed their name eight years ago and lots still use the old one

Capt'n Midnight

mikemac wrote: »

Bord Fáilte clearly not getting their message across

They changed their name eight years ago and lots still use the old one

to digress a little Insignia is still the worstest rebranding ever

Gunmonkey

mikemac wrote: »

Bord Fáilte clearly not getting their message across

They changed their name eight years ago and lots still use the old one

Wait..........Bord Fáilte changed their name?

Its odd as my family ran a self catering till 2009 and first I heard of this :pac:

Paparazzo

senordingdong wrote: »

Surprised the others haven't run him out of town.

There was a post about this before.
One publican was selling cheap drink and the poster was sitting there enjoying a pint. An other publican came in and gave out stink about the guy selling cheap drink and said if he didn't lower it they'd get the LVA (or the other one) to stop supplying him with drink. The con was, the other LVA members get together and complain, LVA contact diagio and say if you continue to supply the cheap pub, we'll get out beer somewhere else.

4leto

Its crazy how cheap alcohol is, my tipple is Heineken I picked up a box of 20 bottles for 18 euro last week, that's 10 litres of beer, how much would I pay for 10 litres of water.

Its not that I feel sorry for the publicans, they to have to move with the times, but the big part that pubs have played in Irish life is dying a death, do we really want that.

mikemac

Paparazzo wrote: »

The con was, the other LVA members get together and complain, LVA contact diagio and say if you continue to supply the cheap pub, we'll get out beer somewhere else.

Diageo and Heineken Ireland are in a very strong position

It's possible a pub could refuse to deal with them but the business would not last long without their products.

There are exceptions but only a tiny percentage of pubs can manage it

Marathon Man

mikemac wrote: »

Diageo and Heineken Ireland are in a very strong position

It's possible a pub could refuse to deal with them but the business would not last long without their products.

There are exceptions but only a tiny percentage of pubs can manage it

I'm sure it could be done. The craft beer market is growing worldwide. People are becoming aware that a lot of the commercial beer is absolute pi**. Dealing directly with the craft beer companies themselves could work. The success of The Porterhouse and more recently Against the Grain on Wexford street are good examples of what can be achieved.

4leto

Marathon Man wrote: »

I'm sure it could be done. The craft beer market is growing worldwide. People are becoming aware that a lot of the commercial beer is absolute pi**. Dealing directly with the craft beer companies themselves could work. The success of The Porterhouse and more recently Against the Grain on Wexford street are good examples of what can be achieved.

I was made aware of that recently, I was talking to a Belguim bloke in Madigans and he loved Ireland, but he couldn't understand for a country with such a reputation for drinking would drink such chemical **** as he called it.

Red Silurian

4leto wrote: »

I picked up a box of 20 bottles for 18 euro last week, that's 10 litres of beer

Heineken do 500ml bottles of beer?... You sure about that? If you're talking about the 330ml bottles it's 6.6 litres of beer... But on the same point there were 45 bottles of stella (284ml granted, but still a goood offer by all accounts) in tesco the other day for €20, that's 22.5 pints

Weissbier

I was recently in Spain.

A 330ml bottle of Heineken €2.60 in the hotel bar.:)

I'm not suggesting that it needs to be this cheap, but this is almost half the price it would be in a bar anywhere in Ireland. The pubs are killing themselves (that said maybe the suppliers/manufacturers are not helping here either).

Also, the government taxing strategy probably needs to be tackled here to reduce the tax rates in the pub so that a night out with your buddies to the pub will become attractive again. However can we trust the publican to pass this saving on??? I fear not!! And here lies the problem, I guess.

Also a cheaper pub would encourage more people to go out and socialise a somewhat lost art in Ireland today!! This cheaper pub could also lead to a future healtier Ireland!! Remember what they (Big Brother, the government) told us originally; that we're taxing drink to make you drink less and therefore be healthier. It is now the the case that more and more people both young and old drink at home and drink alot, whether on their own or at a house party. And unlike a pub there is no closing hours or measures, etc. at home, which is healthier??? My guess is a controlled environment like a pub a healthier option.

mikemac

I know it's a time of cutbacks
Eamonn O'Cuiv was great for supporting rural transport initiative, I can't remember anyone in the new government doing anything or speaking on it.

Around here there is one bus a week and that's for the pensioners as the post office closed a few years back. One bus a week.

If that bus is sitting there and you have a driver on a contract it could be put to work maybe?
Collect at a central point, take people to town and drop them back in the evenings.
Help reduce loneliness too for many elderly people like farmers for example

If you have a bus and a driver then use it, that's all I'm saying

Voodoomelon

I'm 27, male and enjoy a good piss up most weekends.
My ideal pub:

-No fúckín tinnitus-inducing loud music. I don't wanna arrive somewhere and sit facing the people I came with in silence.
-No €4.50+ pints. €23+ for 5 pints, wtf?!
-No bloody TVs showing football/gaa/late late show
-Decent friggin pints! Impossible to find in Dundalk area, end up drinking bottled cider all the time because the Harp/Carlsberg/Guinness is absolute piss. Becks is actually the only decent pint you'll get these days.
-A decent selection of beers. Not just the four mentioned above.
-More seats. When has it become acceptable to remove all seating and tables in favour of a slither of shelving around a wall to rest your drink on?
-Clean friggin toilets with bog roll and someone checking them every hour or two.

It wrecks my head that no pub I go to can meet all those requirements. To get a decent pint, it means dealing with shít toilets. To get a selection of beers it means dealing with loud music. To get somewhere with a decent crowd and some women it means putting up with TVs everywhere and no seats. Want a decent price and it means putting up with shít pints.

And the worst thing is have to pay mental money for that kind of service. And i've worked in a bar for over 11 years and know how annoying it is to charge people insane money. You really don't get anything for your money in this country.

Funny thing is, if I see a special offer for x15 bottles of Miller for €20 in Centra or the likes, I think fúck that, i'll be back next week when it's €20 for x20.