The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Chuck Stone

bobbysands81 wrote: »

An *attempt* will be made to make these changes on an all-Ireland basis thus negating the benefits of cross border shopping.

Lol.

Now why would traders in places like Newry give a shite about the poor publicans of the ROI?

Raging_Ninja

When I was working in the US for the summer, a bottle of heineken was €2, which came out as about €1.30. You could get cups of a beer called Natural Light for 75 cents (€0.50), and about 2 of those would be just shy of a pint.

These were nightclubs and bar prices in a major tourist area.

The VFI is a cartel designed to keep prices high.

bobbysands81

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Lol.

Now why would traders in places like Newry give a shite about the poor publicans of the ROI?

They don't... but then it won't be them setting the prices... prices might be set for them.

bobbysands81

For those of you that think I'm messing or winding up please take a read of these...

http://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/article.aspx?id=2475

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/state-plans-minimum-prices-for-alcohol-168497.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1001/1224305085934.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0924/1224304678090.html

http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/15969/

Chuck Stone

bobbysands81 wrote: »

They don't... but then it won't be them setting the prices... prices might be set for them.

By who?

The Jews? :pac:

bobbysands81

Oranage2 wrote: »

The user name is apt enough for me not to believe this!

What's that got to do with this thread???

bobbysands81

Chuck Stone wrote: »

By who?

The Jews? :pac:

Who usually sets taxes?

Yeah Buddy

It's 3.50 for a bottle of Lucozade or a small can of Red Bull in most pubs. **** them. Nuff said

senordingdong

bobbysands81 wrote: »

An *attempt* will be made to make these changes on an all-Ireland basis thus negating the benefits of cross border shopping.

Well then, we'll just have to adopt the spin that the greedy bastards put on this and just stop drinking altogether...for the good of our health.

When their sales plummet, again, the greedy cartel will for once become symbiotic with it's customers and seek to have the price lowered.

StephenHendry

Yeah Buddy wrote: »

It's 3.50 for a bottle of Lucozade or a small can of Red Bull in most pubs. **** them. Nuff said

spot on, the price of soft drinks like coke, orange is a joke with them so dear that going out on dry will nearly cost as much if not more.

senordingdong

Would defo cost more.
I would love to see how they justify those prices.

bucketybuck

bobbysands81 wrote: »

For those of you that think I'm messing or winding up please take a read of these...

http://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/article.aspx?id=2475

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/state-plans-minimum-prices-for-alcohol-168497.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1001/1224305085934.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0924/1224304678090.html

http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/15969/

Those are all just news reports of the same statement from the same minister, a statement which is nothing new to those of us following the thread. Additionally, none of them mention the issue of crossing the border in the event of minimum pricing.

Like to try again?

rubadub

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Minimum pricing in off-sales is coming in folks, expect it to be in very soon, the minimum price will be based on the alcohol contant of the drink.

Also If a bottle costs €1:50 then 5 bottles will have to cost €7:50, there'll be no reductions for bulk buying.

In most cases when you buy a 24 pack its a different bottle, labelled as a multipack and not to be sold individually, so techinically a different barcoded product, even if the same ml and %, they could also sell 300ml bottles in boxes, which many do. So I doubt they could force them to sell the bottles singly as they could argue the distributor will no longer supply them (it is legal to sell multipack beers though). The real saving is usually on these larger boxes. Most people buy over 5 at a time anyways so its no problem having them at the same price bulk or not. In O'Briens the cheaper beers usually have no bulk discount.

I don't understand how "minimum pricing" works anway. Do you just mean a ban on below cost selling? which then forces them to charge at the duty & VAT price (as the breweries can still charge very little if they want to).

If they go too high people will just go north.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Pubs will not be effected by any of the changes.

Why would they be exempt, is this just a presumption they do not engage in below cost selling? diceys in dublin have €2 pints of paulaner which I believe could be below cost. I did not see anything in your links mentioning pubs being exempt.

rubadub wrote: »

Degag wrote: »

Loss Leading isn't really applicable in the pub trade..

I think this is the sixth time for me to mention diceys sell below cost -I trust you guys with ignore it once again, keep that head well in the sand lads....

I think you can count this as the 7th time with no reply I have seen.

From your first link

Billy Kelleher could not understand why below-cost selling had been allowed go on for so long. “When tobacco prices were increased the next day we reduced alcohol prices,” he told the Committee and along with Denis Naughten from Fine Gael, he sought a ban on below-cost selling.

Again I will say I have not seen hard evidence that below cost selling does go on as much as publicans like people to think.

rubadub wrote: »

I find it literally incredible to these small off licences and shops like centra as selling at as big a loss as you are making out.

You (ardinn) said heineken cost you €35 for a case, is this including VAT? even if not that is €29 for 20 bottles, now if centra get it at the same price they are making a loss of €14 per case, and not a single mate of mine bought other stuff in centra, not even a bar let alone a weekly shop.

Killer Pigeon

"The pub trade is dying"

Good, I much prefer cafés and cocktails bars.

witnessmenow

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

When I was working in the US for the summer, a bottle of heineken was €2, which came out as about €1.30. You could get cups of a beer called Natural Light for 75 cents (€0.50), and about 2 of those would be just shy of a pint.

These were nightclubs and bar prices in a major tourist area.

The VFI is a cartel designed to keep prices high.

"naddy light" would be the equivalent of a pub selling dutch gold in Ireland. Either you were in a state with no sales tax or sales tax was to be added to this because 75c is too round of a number. You are also expected to tip your bar staff in the US. And obviously at €0.50 there is no duty on that!

I've said it many times here and I'll say it again, pubs can not buy bottles of beer as cheap as a regular consumer does in Tesco or whatever, its stupid but thats the way it is.

ScumLord

bobbysands81 wrote: »

For those of you that think I'm messing or winding up please take a read of these...

http://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/article.aspx?id=2475

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/state-plans-minimum-prices-for-alcohol-168497.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1001/1224305085934.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0924/1224304678090.html

http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/15969/

I watched a documentary on the lead up to alcohol prohibition in America in the 20s and those news stories look like they where pulled from that time, it's almost exactly the same logic used. The show was "Prohibition: A nation of drunkards" PBS.

It said the movement was founded by women that didn't like their men drinking and being unchristian and if you look at the people who keep bringing it up today it's Christian women giving out about the demon drink.

yoyo

sugarman wrote: »

Needless to say, wondered off to a place up the road & found €2.50 drinks promos:D

I wonder would this be considered "bellow cost selling" :P .

Nick

rubadub

witnessmenow wrote: »

I've said it many times here and I'll say it again, pubs can not buy bottles of beer as cheap as a regular consumer does in Tesco or whatever, its stupid but thats the way it is.

I have never heard this said before. I have mentioned it many times myself and never saw it argued against, (i.e. I say how they CAN and DO buy from supermarkets). None of the posters who are seemingly in the publican trade have ever said othewise (that I have seen). Some do mention that it would make tax a bit of hassle, but admitted you could sell say lidl brand Perlenbacher beer in a pub.

In the consumers issues forum people have moaned about getting mulitpack supermarket beer in pubs, and I never once saw a person saying they could not, all people backed up the pubs as being perfectly legal.

The distributors/breweries may not like it, and could refuse to play ball with you in future, but that is by no means the same as saying "pubs can not buy bottles of beer as cheap as a regular consumer" -which to me sounds like its making out that its illegal.

witnessmenow

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is true: buying bottles of the drink wholesalers is more expensive than the offers in super markets.

Why this is, im not certain. Im pretty sure there is a an excise on drink sold in pubs, which is included in the price off the wholesaler.

Whatever about pubs who are on the straight and narrow, there is (or maybe was) a lot of pubs who were buying the drink off supermarkets or up the north and selling it to the consumer at the same price as everyone else :rolleyes:

There is a pub in the town im from that doesnt open during normal working hours, used to buy all its bottles from the north (the were the thin glassed bottles i.e. not the one from wholesalers, and also only had 300ml as opposed to the normal 330ml iirc) but they had no fear of getting caught as cutoms work during the day.

rubadub

witnessmenow wrote: »

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is true: buying bottles of the drink wholesalers is more expensive than the offers in super markets.

I have no doubt wholesalers are often more expensive, but this is not what you said. (I also doubt it is more expensive 100% of the time.)

You said

witnessmenow wrote: »

pubs can not buy bottles of beer as cheap as a regular consumer does in Tesco or whatever

And posters involved in the trade have said before there is nothing to stop them doing exactly what you say they cannot -i.e. walk into tesco, buy beer like a regular consumer and sell it on. The downside is hassle calculating the tax and getting rid of bottles as they often have arrangements with breweries, which is why some drinks may cost more.

witnessmenow wrote: »

Whatever about pubs who are on the straight and narrow, there is (or maybe was) a lot of pubs who were buying the drink off supermarkets or up the north and selling it to the consumer at the same price as everyone else

They are allowed do this, if done properly in the books. Just like in my workplace I buy stuff in hardware stores with cash, then I get money back from accounts and and it gets used on machines we build, then accounts have to claim the VAT back. Its no different, just more hassle for accounts in my case, and the pubs case, who may also have to deal with duty.

There is a pub in the town im from that doesnt open during normal working hours,

You should report them if you suspect they are up to something, it is probably all above board. And of course customs will work outside normal hours if they have to, otherwise all drug dealers would simply smuggle at night!

SteelyDanJalapeno

Few places in Waterford going as low as 2 quid per drink Pints, Shots, bottles

witnessmenow

rubadub wrote: »

I have no doubt wholesalers are often more expensive, but this is not what you said. (I also doubt it is more expensive 100% of the time.)

Once a beer hits less €1 a bottle or less you can be guaranteed its cheaper.

rubadub wrote: »

You said

And posters involved in the trade have said before there is nothing to stop them doing exactly what you say they cannot -i.e. walk into tesco, buy beer like a regular consumer and sell it on. The downside is hassle calculating the tax and getting rid of bottles as they often have arrangements with breweries, which is why some drinks may cost more.

They are allowed do this, if done properly in the books. Just like in my workplace I buy stuff in hardware stores with cash, then I get money back from accounts and and it gets used on machines we build, then accounts have to claim the VAT back. Its no different, just more hassle for accounts in my case, and the pubs case, who may also have to deal with duty.

I said a pub cant buy it as cheap as a consumer. A customer buys the beer at X, the pub buys it at X plus has to pay Y duty..... how is what i said wrong? I never said the couldnt buy it, i said they couldnt buy it as cheap.

rubadub wrote: »

You should report them if you suspect they are up to something, it is probably all above board. And of course customs will work outside normal hours if they have to, otherwise all drug dealers would simply smuggle at night!

Maybe, but i dont think ni booze is quite the same as drugs. I havent been there in years, i dont know are they still at it.

bryaner

ardinn wrote: »

This!

You never said anything about the border in your post - and unless you have missed something, there is very little differrence in the price of drink across the border now compared to here - So your the publicans you know, who are smuggling drink are either driving a delorean or like long waste of time journeys.

I'm not talking about tipping up to Asda for a few crates, I'm talking about night time deliveries excise free, get up to speed..

ChunkyLover_53

I've started to notice on bottles of lager in pubs/clubs that they have that 'not be re-sold individually' notice on the back of the label

Cee-Jay-Cee

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I like going to the pub, shop around and you will find one with reasonable prices.

Thats ok if you live in a city where there is plenty of choice, but in small towns/villages there is little choice and prices dont vary enough to make it worth your while going somewhere else.

I have more or less stopped going out (been out only twice this year) because its so expensive. A bottle of beer from a supermarket costs less than €1, the same in even the cheapest pub is going to be €4, then factor in taxi costs and your looking at a minimum of €50 for a night out and thats not even considering paying into a nightclub.

Pubs had it good for a long time, i have no sympathy for them. I realise that they dont have a lot of say in the price of drink from their suppliers but in many cases theyre still creaming it. The Vintners society has very little public sympathy and its getting less and less each day...pubs would do well to pull out of the vintners society and go it alone, they'd probably do far better!

billybudd

witnessmenow wrote: »

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is true: buying bottles of the drink wholesalers is more expensive than the offers in super markets.

Why this is, im not certain. Im pretty sure there is a an excise on drink sold in pubs, which is included in the price off the wholesaler.

Whatever about pubs who are on the straight and narrow, there is (or maybe was) a lot of pubs who were buying the drink off supermarkets or up the north and selling it to the consumer at the same price as everyone else :rolleyes:

There is a pub in the town im from that doesnt open during normal working hours, used to buy all its bottles from the north (the were the thin glassed bottles i.e. not the one from wholesalers, and also only had 300ml as opposed to the normal 330ml iirc) but they had no fear of getting caught as cutoms work during the day.

I know of one wholesaler selling bottles of beer cheaper than tesco etc.

Batsy

In Britain, beer in supermarkets is extremely cheap.

I like to go to Asda and get a box of 12 cans of Fosters for £8.

In some places, the prices are utterly barmy. In Sainsbury's a box of 15 Fosters, Carling or Carlsberg is actually cheaper than a box of 12 Fosters, Carling or Carlsberg.

Batsy

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Few places in Waterford going as low as 2 quid per drink Pints, Shots, bottles

Go to almost any pub along Bradshawgate in Bolton town centre and pints cost £1.50.

ardinn

bryaner wrote: »

I'm not talking about tipping up to Asda for a few crates, I'm talking about night time deliveries excise free, get up to speed..

Excise free eh?

I need a picard!!!

Excise free from a bonded warehouse that customs has a presence in most weeks??

Excise free from a bonded warehouse that security is so strict on you need government licences and security to even apply for?

Get out!

TheyKnowMyIP

Any pub that sells supermarket beer/spirits should be closed down imo. Most legitimate pubs don't buy stock from the supermarket imo. It's impossible for a pub to sell at the same rates in the supermarket. Different markets altogether.