The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

buried

CruelCoin wrote: »

This will be my second brew....I'm hardly the expert.

First batch, i followed the recipe and procedure to the minute detail.

I could do the same, but i feel some experimentation is in order. I can take the result and determine if i need to add cardomon, more hops, etc. Should i add extra hops in the form of dry hops, etc.

Perfection through iteration.

Fair play, keep working at it! The only way to perfect anything is to keep going at it. A mate of mine started to brew his own 3 years ago, that first batch of his was barely tolerable but the stuff he had this Christmas was some of the nicest beer I have ever tasted. And he thought he could do better next year and probably will! Made me want to invest in the same sort of set-up myself.

CruelCoin

buried wrote: »

Made me want to invest in the same sort of set-up myself.

I started with the 80 quid coopers set. Lots of bits in it, but basic.

I intend to upgrade to a better quality kit, but will stick to the basic brews within it.

Banjo String

CruelCoin wrote: »

I started with the 80 quid coopers set. Lots of bits in it, but basic.

I intend to upgrade to a better quality kit, but will stick to the basic brews within it.

Coopers is some of the best beer to be bought in Ireland, and I don't even necessarily mean home brew kits either.

Anyone that knows me hears me prattling on about sparkling ale often enough.

Delicious.

anncoates

Deleted User wrote: »

And an HSE inspector will visit, test the food and bring a court case / close the business because they are out by 50.

Can't see that happening. Any figure is going to be ballpark, depending on portion size, ingredients etc.

Cletus van_damme

RomanKnows wrote: »

The craft brewers will now have an offering that isn't as hamstrung based on volume. Aldi will still be able to sell a fine Pale Ale for around €2 a bottle. They won't be able to sell 6 cans of 5% lager for €7. This really isn't a bad thing.

When the minimum price get raised the other prices will go up in line with it. So if that Pale Ale from Aldi is currently 50% more expensive than the cheapest beer once the minimum price is set the Pale Ale will increase in price to keep the % price difference the same.

All this law is designed to do is raise the baseline price of alcohol.

animaal

I think we're all being a bit harsh on the vintners. Can we not give them the benefit of the doubt, that they are in fact very worried for the health of the nation?

Our betters have told us that that three pints is a binge. Given that drink served in pubs must be consumed immediately, I'm sure the vintners would be in favour of a ban on serving this amount to any individual in one session.

Personally, I'd disagree with the proposal, but I look forward to discussing it with them.

macnug

So if there spouting 90-110c a unit what are we realistically looking at after uturns and backing down, probably 70c a unit?

Kev_2012

I don't drink at all mid week and rarely drink on a friday because of having matches. I probably go out all night on a saturday 2/3 times a month. I don't often buy beer before going out but when I do I probably just get a 6 pack of bottles. I like to drink Blue Moon and in Ireland it's at leaast 8 euro for 4 bottle and then 2.30 a bottle after that.

12.60 for 6 bottles is mental!!

The same 6 bottles in L.A. is about 7 dollars, about half the price. F*ck of Varadkar. To think I actually liked the guy as a politician until about a week ago. Clown.

I have an illness in the family and if they end up on a f*cking trolley and Varadkar is worrying about charging more for cans of beer instead I'll bury the c*nt.

damemcd

Get of the fence there Kev

MonkeyTennis

Im starting to think Leo Varadkar was put on this planet to test my f**king patience.

CruelCoin

Cletus van_damme wrote: »

When the minimum price get raised the other prices will go up in line with it. So if that Pale Ale from Aldi is currently 50% more expensive than the cheapest beer once the minimum price is set the Pale Ale will increase in price to keep the % price difference the same.

Not nessecarily.

Craft beer is more expensive to produce as it must be done in smaller batchs (can't afford the megasized vats the likes of budweiser have).

They already suffer for being double the cost. If they were clever, they'd leave prices as they are to tempt people away from megabrand beers.
Everyone and their dog calls themselves "premium". They'd be better off competing on taste, as opposed to premium status..

Besides, they can also market themselves as actually being real beer. There are only 4 ingredients in real beer: water, yeast, starch source(malt), hops.
Craft beer tends to stick to this. Mega beers have ingredients lists dozens of items long.
That's not beer, it's some sort of beer derivative soup.

I'm happy to pay €2.50-€3.50 for a nice bottle. Not so happy to pay €5-€6. I think they'll realise that.

wally79

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not nessecarily.

Craft beer is more expensive to produce as it must be done in smaller batchs (can't afford the megasized vats the likes of budweiser have).

They already suffer for being double the cost. If they were clever, they'd leave prices as they are to tempt people away from megabrand beers.
Everyone and their dog calls themselves "premium". They'd be better off competing on taste, as opposed to premium status..

Besides, they can also market themselves as actually being real beer. There are only 4 ingredients in real beer: water, yeast, starch source(malt), hops.
Craft beer tends to stick to this. Mega beers have ingredients lists dozens of items long.
That's not beer, it's some sort of beer derivative soup.

I'm happy to pay €2.50-€3.50 for a nice bottle. Not so happy to pay €5-€6. I think they'll realise that.

It's a perception issue. Not everyone bothers to research beers or try something new. If they see something at the same price as Crapbrau they will put it in the same bracket subconsciously

CruelCoin

wally79 wrote: »

It's a perception issue. Not everyone bothers to research beers or try something new. If they see something at the same price as Crapbrau they will put it in the same bracket subconsciously

Then they deserve to drink crap.

There is a very simple rule of thumb to follow, that steers you clear of crapbrau. If you've ever seen an advertisement for a food or drink, then stay away from it.
Good food and drink will advertise themselves through word of mouth due to their quality.
Likewise with restaurants. Stay away from the ones with pictures of food in the windows/menues.

If a beer has been advertised then its growing on the back of its marketing budget, not its qualities. Money that would produce a better brew if actually spent on the brew.

Beefy78

The thing that still annoys me is the constant references to "below cost selling". You know what? Below cost selling of alcohol is bad and should be banned. I'd imagine that most rational people would agree with that.

But has any evidence ever been supplied of a single Irish pub, off license or supermarket selling below cost?

The BBC article someone linked to a few pages back from when the UK abandoned minimum pricing as a policy that "doesn't work" said that below cost selling had been outlawed and as such a can of lager couldn't be sold below 40p. Does anyone know of a place in Ireland where I can get a can of beer for 50c?

It is the same nonsense that the same people trot out about Wetherspoons. This complete falacy that one of the most successful chains of pubs in the World with close to 1,000 pubs in the UK gets to where it is and makes all the money that it does by selling at a loss. €2.50 for a pint is not below cost because JDW negotiate good rates with suppliers and if someone charges them too much they walk away and buy from someone else.

It is just headline selling nonsense.

If this gets cross-party support then that tells you all you need to know about democracy.

Mr. teddywinkles

rubadub wrote: »

The offies and supermarkets will the biggest winners

Not if sales drop because of it

Irishcrx

Few friends of mine have been brewing their own and brought bottles down, really impressed with the taste and quality.

Will definitely be giving a go myself once I get some spare time on my hands, the brew your own trade is already popular and will continue to grow.

Would love to see a large percentage of people start to do this and send a big middle finger back at this stupid new policy.

CruelCoin

Irishcrx wrote: »

Few friends of mine have been brewing their own and brought bottles down, really impressed with the taste and quality.

Will definitely be giving a go myself once I get some spare time on my hands, the brew your own trade is already popular and will continue to grow.

Would love to see a large percentage of people start to do this and send a big middle finger back at this stupid new policy.

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/
http://www.homebrew.ie/
http://www.thebeerclub.ie/
http://themottlybrew.ie/
http://geterbrewed.ie/

Small selection from google first page results for "beer brew ireland"

A rule of thumb is 80-90ish quid for a basic set that'll let you do approx 40 pints.

macnug

CruelCoin wrote: »

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/
http://www.homebrew.ie/
http://www.thebeerclub.ie/
http://themottlybrew.ie/
http://geterbrewed.ie/

Small selection from google first page results for "beer brew ireland"

A rule of thumb is 80-90ish quid for a basic set that'll let you do approx 40 pints.

I've been brewing on and off for about 5 years and I can tell you if you really want to do it on the cheap, about 30 quids worth of equipment would do you if you don't mind kit brewing. The problem with kits though is they aren't that nice with the exception of one or two. Extract and all grain are far nicer but the equipment in a lot more expensive, about 130 plus for extract and 200 plus for all grain.

The_Captain

Just FYI, homebrewing is very noisy.

Expect a lot of popping and banging from the kit through the night.

listermint

RomanKnows wrote: »

I agree. It isn't an ideologically pure form of taxation. I disagree that it's a form of corporate welfare for the large brewers though. If I ran a craft brewery selling an IPA at around 4.5% then I'd be very happy. The large brewers were flooding the market with cheap drink. They all have a cheap offering that is supposedly inferior to their premium offering. The craft brewers will now have an offering that isn't as hamstrung based on volume. Aldi will still be able to sell a fine Pale Ale for around €2 a bottle. They won't be able to sell 6 cans of 5% lager for €7. This really isn't a bad thing.

Who the hell are you kidding!?

This forced change will just increase prices across the board.

Craft Brews have no competition of note from cheaper 'deal' beers. Its a different market so that was never a problem. You can tell this is fact by the explosion in craft beer in the last 5 years. So stop toshing around nonsense.

Secondly there is NO facts literally NONE to indicate below cost selling is a real problem here, Its just made up nonsense supported by the VFI.

You know full well that all brands will increase their prices and you make no apology for it.

Any TD that i know who pushes for this, Im make sure to push him out the door. Il bad mouth them to everyone i know and il make sure they realise the impact this will have on their pockets.


To feed people the line that this is only to hit the lower end of the market is an out and out lie.

Banjo String

The_Captain wrote: »

Just FYI, homebrewing is very noisy.

Expect a lot of popping and banging from the kit through the night.

Like in breaking bad?

Captain Chaos

The_Captain wrote: »

Just FYI, homebrewing is very noisy.

Expect a lot of popping and banging from the kit through the night.

Homer's bathtubs come to mind.:D

Geuze

Beefy78 wrote: »

The thing that still annoys me is the constant references to "below cost selling". You know what? Below cost selling of alcohol is bad and should be banned. I'd imagine that most rational people would agree with that.

But has any evidence ever been supplied of a single Irish pub, off license or supermarket selling below cost?

Unless Diageo is a charity, then 1 euro for a can of Guinness would seem to be below -cost.

macnug

Geuze wrote: »

Unless Diageo is a charity, then 1 euro for a can of Guinness would seem to be below -cost.

Probably cost 10c to produce a pint of Guinness. Marketing now on the other hand is anyone's guess.

Banjo String

Geuze wrote: »

Unless Diageo is a charity, then 1 euro for a can of Guinness would seem to be below -cost.

Therein lies the problem.

Diageo are charging too much.

The_Captain

Every time I hear the VFI say "below cost selling" I assume they mean below their crooked price fixing levels

tomglsn

I am surprised that the vintners are so opposed to the supermarkets as a lot of the pubs I go to are selling beer bought from the supermarkets without adjusting their prices accordingly.

syklops

Beefy78 wrote: »

The thing that still annoys me is the constant references to "below cost selling". You know what? Below cost selling of alcohol is bad and should be banned. I'd imagine that most rational people would agree with that.

But has any evidence ever been supplied of a single Irish pub, off license or supermarket selling below cost?

The BBC article someone linked to a few pages back from when the UK abandoned minimum pricing as a policy that "doesn't work" said that below cost selling had been outlawed and as such a can of lager couldn't be sold below 40p. Does anyone know of a place in Ireland where I can get a can of beer for 50c?

It is the same nonsense that the same people trot out about Wetherspoons. This complete falacy that one of the most successful chains of pubs in the World with close to 1,000 pubs in the UK gets to where it is and makes all the money that it does by selling at a loss. €2.50 for a pint is not below cost because JDW negotiate good rates with suppliers and if someone charges them too much they walk away and buy from someone else.

It is just headline selling nonsense.

If this gets cross-party support then that tells you all you need to know about democracy.

Its this sort of sense-making that is severely lacking in our nation. Especially when decisions are made at political levels.

Tarzana2

anncoates wrote: »

Can't see that happening. Any figure is going to be ballpark, depending on portion size, ingredients etc.

That's fine though. I'm for calories being displayed and am happy with it being an educated guess. I don't think anyone expects it to be exactly correct.

Tarzana2

Beefy78 wrote: »

€2.50 for a pint is not below cost because JDW negotiate good rates with suppliers and if someone charges them too much they walk away and buy from someone else.

In fairness, to get that deal you would probably need to do serious bulk buying, more than smaller establishments/companies could do. There are probably solutions to that though that a more business-headed person could suggest?