The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Tarzana2

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Homer's bathtubs come to mind.:D

I'll have a bathtub mint julep please.

Flex

Tarzana2 wrote: »

In fairness, to get that deal you would probably need to do serious bulk buying, more than smaller establishments/companies could do. There are probably solutions to that though that a more business-headed person could suggest?

Perhaps a number of pubs could band together for the purpose of having a single central warehouse that orders from suppliers on their collective behalf and who they then order from as needed to pool their buying power, if bulk buying is a major disadvantage. Musgraves operate similarly I think; they have a central warehouse that buys from their suppliers and each independent Supervalu and centra orders from that warehouse, thereby benefiting from collective buying power instead of each ordering individually

Though the flip side of that is that as far as I'm aware there's nothing stopping a publican wandering into a shop and buying 20 bottles of beer for €20 on offer or a bottle of Jameson for €29 or wine or soft drinks, etc., thus getting the benefit of that retailers 'buying power' second hand at a slightly higher price (since they'll pay the RRP). the issue is they subsequently resell it with about a 400% mark up which turns a lot f people away... Open to correction on if that's something publicans can't do of course, although I don't know how they could be stopped from doing so really

anncoates

Tarzana2 wrote: »

That's fine though. I'm for calories being displayed and am happy with it being an educated guess. I don't think anyone expects it to be exactly correct.

I wasn't opposing it. I'm in favour of it.

I said it's unlikely to be anything other than a ballpark figure (in answer to another post) and somebody pointed out that the HSE will put paid to that, which I don't think they will.

Beefy78

syklops wrote: »

Its this sort of sense-making that is severely lacking in our nation.

That's because I'm English :P

syklops

Tarzana2 wrote: »

In fairness, to get that deal you would probably need to do serious bulk buying, more than smaller establishments/companies could do. There are probably solutions to that though that a more business-headed person could suggest?

Thats not a bad idea at all, but really pubs could do any manner of things to cut down on costs. I was in a pub recently and it had 5 wide screen TVs. It wasnt a huge place either.

The_Captain

Flex wrote: »

Perhaps a number of pubs could band together for the purpose of having a single central warehouse that orders from suppliers on their collective behalf and who they then order from as needed to pool their buying power, if bulk buying is a major disadvantage. Musgraves operate similarly I think; they have a central warehouse that buys from their suppliers and each independent Supervalu and centra orders from that warehouse, thereby benefiting from collective buying power instead of each ordering individually

Though the flip side of that is that as far as I'm aware there's nothing stopping a publican wandering into a shop and buying 20 bottles of beer for €20 on offer or a bottle of Jameson for €29 or wine or soft drinks, etc., thus getting the benefit of that retailers 'buying power' second hand at a slightly higher price (since they'll pay the RRP). the issue is they subsequently resell it with about a 400% mark up which turns a lot f people away... Open to correction on if that's something publicans can't do of course, although I don't know how they could be stopped from doing so really

So they should band together to create an association or federation that would allow them greater sway and buying power?

SeanW

Beefy78 wrote: »

Does anyone know of a place in Ireland where I can get a can of beer for 50c?

Cross the border and go to any Asda in Nordyland.

They'll sell 4 cans of "Asda Smartprice" lager for £1 - or 25p a can.

It's actually quite nice. Likewise the 2L bottles of cider you can get for £2-£3. Or Smirinoff Ice 700ml for £2.50 ...

Idbatterim

Though the flip side of that is that as far as I'm aware there's nothing stopping a publican wandering into a shop and buying 20 bottles of beer for €20 on offer or a bottle of Jameson for €29 or wine or soft drinks, etc., thus getting the benefit of that retailers 'buying power' second hand at a slightly higher price (since they'll pay the RRP). the issue is they subsequently resell it with about a 400% mark up which turns a lot f people away... Open to correction on if that's something publicans can't do of course, although I don't know how they could be stopped from doing so really

They are not legally meant to buy from tesco, supervalu etc as far as I know, but if the existing price is putting their livelihoods at risk, simply buy from tesco etc anyway as I am sure a lot of them do and sell it at a cost that will bring people in... Win / Win.

Thats not a bad idea at all, but really pubs could do any manner of things to cut down on costs. I was in a pub recently and it had 5 wide screen TVs. It wasnt a huge place either.

In fairness, sky might cost quite a bit, but I reckon I could go out and pick up 5 new widescreen LED tv's for pocket change these days...

suicide_circus

Idbatterim wrote: »

They are not legally meant to buy from tesco, supervalu etc as far as I know, but if the existing price is putting their livelihoods at risk, simply buy from tesco etc anyway as I am sure a lot of them do and sell it at a cost that will bring people in... Win / Win.

Sure that's why supermarkets put "4 per customer" limits on cases of bottles on offer because the local publicans would clear them out otherwise

syklops

Idbatterim wrote: »

They are not legally meant to buy from tesco, supervalu etc as far as I know, but if the existing price is putting their livelihoods at risk, simply buy from tesco etc anyway as I am sure a lot of them do and sell it at a cost that will bring people in... Win / Win.

In fairness, sky might cost quite a bit, but I reckon I could go out and pick up 5 new widescreen LED tv's for pocket change these days...

Define pocket change. 200 each?

Tarzana2

Tarzana2 wrote: »

That's fine though. I'm for calories being displayed and am happy with it being an educated guess. I don't think anyone expects it to be exactly correct.

You've clearly never dealt with the HSE.

One of the great ironies of modern ireland is that whilst people lie on trolleys for days on end, we DO have the resources to obsessively inspect businesses and judge them on almost everything other than what actually matters.

Idbatterim

Define pocket change. 200 each?

Id put it at 300-350 for what you are getting, my point is they are relatively unbelievably cheap these days...

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

They'll sell 4 cans of "Asda Smartprice" lager for £1 - or 25p a can.

2%? Nah.

Kangoo Man

The simple solution which the government should be introducing, is to ban multi-pack pack offers of beers/wines etc.

It's crazy that a can may cost €2.49 per unit and a slab may costs €1.00 per unit.

All multi-packs should be the same price as if they were bought individually.

This would bring down the price per unit of a can/bottle as supermarkets/off licences would compete on these terms and it would discourage people from buying too much.

Simple solution, everybody wins.

listermint

Kangoo Man wrote: »

The simple solution which the government should be introducing, is to ban multi-pack pack offers of beers/wines etc.

It's crazy that a can may cost €2.49 per unit and a slab may costs €1.00 per unit.

All multi-packs should be the same price as if they were bought individually.

This would bring down the price per unit of a can/bottle as supermarkets/off licences would compete on these terms and it would discourage people from buying too much.

Simple solution, everybody wins.

Stupid Solution, Just leave it alone.

They've done enough meddling the last number of years. Just trying to run the remaining tax payers out of the country.

Kangoo Man

listermint wrote: »

Stupid Solution, Just leave it alone.

They've done enough meddling the last number of years. Just trying to run the remaining tax payers out of the country.

I'd be in favour of leaving it alone too, but I don't think that's going to happen.

runawaybishop

Idbatterim wrote: »

In fairness, sky might cost quite a bit, but I reckon I could go out and pick up 5 new widescreen LED tv's for pocket change these days...

It does cost a fair bit, which is why a good few pubs, at least round me, just pirate it.

spiralism

Sure why not bring in minimum pricing to a country which already had the second highest alcohol prices in Europe after Norway? Absolutely moronic ****e that. Seems this government wants us to go the way of Australia where a crate costs 50 AUD and you're looking at ten dollars a drink when you're out there. Thing is the wages are far higher there so it doesnt hit them in the pocket as much. Note as well that Australians are often very heavy drinkers by nature anyways so it's not like their high alcohol costs did anything to reduce that.

Protectionism of the politicians mates in the pub trade, plain and simple.

The longer im away from our country and the idiotic measures being implemented in it, the less likely it becomes that i'll ever return

SeanW

Deleted User wrote: »

2%? Nah.

It's cheap and tasty but, yeah, you'd have to supplement them with something else if you wanted to get merry, let alone smashed.

Mesrine65

Fúck pubs, fúck the VFI & double fúck Varadker...

I'm gonna kick back with a freshly brewed 6% IPA that cost me roughly .75c per 500ml to brew & I can smoke a big fat one while I'm at it if I choose.

RIP pub trade, ye'll not be missed by me.

RomanKnows

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Fúck pubs, fúck the VFI & double fúck Varadker...

I'm gonna kick back with a freshly brewed 6% IPA that cost me roughly .75c per 500ml to brew & I can smoke a big fat one while I'm at it if I choose.

RIP pub trade, ye'll not be missed by me.

It does sound like you need something to 'chill out' and relax.....

Mesrine65

RomanKnows wrote: »

It does sound like you need something to 'chill out' and relax.....

You know I think you're right sir, chin chin, tis time for tiffin

BetterThanThou

I don't understand why people think supermarkets are selling at below cost. Off licenses often have very similar prices, maybe 2 or 3 euro on top of the price of a crate. If you take into consideration buying power, and the fact that supermarkets are usually a slight bit cheaper than a regular shop on everything, since they can afford to make less profit on each individual item due to the sheer amount of goods they shift, then it makes sense it's cheaper in a supermarket than an off license. When looking to drink on the cheap, I'd drink Miller(crap, I know.), usually in a supermarket, it would cost me about 18 euro, off license would be about 20 or 21 euro. Off licenses are in the business solely to sell alcohol, there's absolutely no way they're not making a decent profit on a crate of beer, definitely more than 2 or 3 euro. So naturally, the supermarkets must also be making a profit.

syklops

syklops wrote: »

Define pocket change. 200 each?

Sky costs a normal pub about 12k a year, even paying 600 each for tv's is a drop in the water.

Having sky is vital too for most pubs so you either pay for it or risk a dodgy box or risk a house subscription.

Capt'n Midnight

Geuze wrote: »

Unless Diageo is a charity, then 1 euro for a can of Guinness would seem to be below -cost.

Really ???
Aldi are selling 4% larger at 79c for 500ml. But when you remove the VAT and Excise what's left about the same price as a similar size tin of Aldi baked beans 29c which contains about the same metal and presumably has similar transport costs.

If the publicans feel that Aldi are below cost selling perhaps they'd like to suggest which Aldi products are overpriced to make up the loss ?

Or perhaps they should direct their ire at Diageo who can presumably make a pint for in or around 10c but charge the publicans more than the supermarkets. If only the publicans had some sort of association to negotiate a bulk rate ....

elperello

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Easily enough. There's a troop of hatchet-faced, finger-wagging, nanny-state cnuts, in this country, who lose their reason at the very mention of alcohol. Loads of them are in our parliament and loads more of them are in our media. Almost anything will set them off.
I've come to the conclusion that these screaming banshees are doing far more to perpetuate the stereotype of the drunken Irishman than the people doing the actual drinking.

Look at this

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/move-against-cheap-drink-welcome-but-ban-on-sports-sponsorship-is-needed-1.2093142

Professor Frank Murray says "As a physician who specialises in liver disease, it is worth saying that there is no safe level of drinking."

He goes on to qualify this and point out safe levels etc. but the very fact that he put that in his IT article gives you an indication of where this debate is going.

Eutow

elperello wrote: »

Look at this

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/move-against-cheap-drink-welcome-but-ban-on-sports-sponsorship-is-needed-1.2093142

Professor Frank Murray says "As a physician who specialises in liver disease, it is worth saying that there is no safe level of drinking."

He goes on to qualify this and point out safe levels etc. but the very fact that he put that in his IT article gives you an indication of where this debate is going.

And if you read what he says in that article such as below you will realise what a clown this person is. Obviously he did not read comments from some FG TD a few weeks ago and the FG manifesto about protecting the publican.

Prof Frank Murray says "I believe that the measures in the Bill will help hugely in reducing the flow of cheap alcohol and that this legislation will mark a turning point in public policy. I support the Government in taking on the vested interests of the alcohol industry and putting the interests of citizens first"

Flex

It would be interesting to get a poll on this thread. From reading some news reports and listening to RTE (admittedly very briefly though) you'd get the impression the entire country is breathing a collective "thank god this has finally happened" style sigh of relief and is overwhelmingly supportive of minimum pricing. Thats not in keeping with what Ive experienced myself though. Only poll Ive seen online has been with a Journal article on minimum pricing and was very much against.

Timmyctc

Timmyctc wrote: »

You realise that makes no sense right there

suicide_circus wrote: »

Which is it? I've head this before but not drinking water for 12 hours after drinking poitin sounds counter intuitive to say the least. I'm sceptical about this "redrunkening" idea. Any scientific basis for this?

osarusan wrote: »

Timmyctc at least was talking about the '50-60% proof' comment, as the poster probably means 50-60%ABV, rather than alcohol proof, which isn't a percentage, but a degree.

Yes. This. 50% proof is two different measurements of alcohol content.

Kangoo Man

I don't like blaming the media, but in general people working in the media are not on the breadline and do not buy their alcohol in Aldi...

That's why the media are not going crazy about this, but judging from most people I've talked to, there's a lot of anger out there about minimum pricing...