The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

worded

So a box of 24 Heineken will be a minimum of how much if this pro publican act goes through ?

listermint

Kangoo Man wrote: »

I don't like blaming the media, but in general people working in the media are not on the breadline and do not buy their alcohol in Aldi...

That's why the media are not going crazy about this, but judging from most people I've talked to, there's a lot of anger out there about minimum pricing...

Well they clearly haven't thought about to very well. Because welcome to 3 and 4 Euro cans of Heineken. Theyll want to distinguish their premium brand.


The media needs a collective smack up side the head.

Flex

worded wrote: »

So a box of 24 Heineken will be a minimum of how much if this pro publican act goes through ?

I think it's 90c-€1.10 per standard serving. A 500ml can of 4% has about 2 standard servings so a tray of 24 cans would be €43.20 if it's at the lower rate of 90cent or up to €52.80 at the higher rate. Heinekens 5% so presumably the higher abv than a 'regular' 4% beer would push it up more?

Edit: gonna try answering my own question with this estimate, but if the €0.90-€1.10 is for 4% abv, Heineken at 5% around €2.50 a can, €55-€65 for 24?

buried

Kangoo Man wrote: »

I don't like blaming the media, but in general people working in the media are not on the breadline and do not buy their alcohol in Aldi...

That's why the media are not going crazy about this, but judging from most people I've talked to, there's a lot of anger out there about minimum pricing...

The media can't get involved in the rightful outrage of this measure, as this is being labelled as a "health measure" and the notion of 'healthy living' is a current hip, trend the collective media dish out to the masses sitting on their arses watching television. Last week, RTE's health-hyped Tv show lambasted some lady taking part in it as some sort of savage, sub-human, ape-woman, just for having a few drinks.

CruelCoin

worded wrote: »

So a box of 24 Heineken will be a minimum of how much if this pro publican act goes through ?

Ball park €2 a can.

Depends where they fall on the cents per gram of alcohol scale.

Turpentine

Kangoo Man wrote: »

I don't like blaming the media, but in general people working in the media are not on the breadline and do not buy their alcohol in Aldi...

That's why the media are not going crazy about this, but judging from most people I've talked to, there's a lot of anger out there about minimum pricing...

That reminds of how on Wednesday's Liveline some chap said to Joe that if the price of drink was hiked up, problem drinkers would just turn to crime to feed their habits.

Cue Joe (I'm paraphrasing here, but this was the gist):

"*Sigh* No, no, no, no, no I don't agree with that, they're not going to turn to crime. Shoplifting maybe."

Tin Foil Hat

Eutow wrote: »

"I believe that the measures in the Bill will help hugely in reducing the flow of cheap alcohol [/B]

No matter how many times this pitiful phrase is vomited out of the feeble minds of nanny state dunces it doesn't get any truer. There is no such thing as cheap alcohol in this country.
A quid for a can of crappy beer is not cheap.
14 quid for piss poor supermarket vodka is not cheap
7 quid for a bottle of chateaux de sh1thole is not cheap.
Yet people still drink them. If making alcohol expensive worked, then it would already have worked. High excise duties mean that people drink poisonous sh1te rather than a decent product. Minimum pricing will push people towards home brew, poteen and the black market.
The best things to do to change Ireland's attitude to alcohol would be to make going out cheap and to dust off Michael McDowell's Cáfe Bar legislation.

worded

CruelCoin wrote: »

Ball park €2 a can.

Depends where they fall on the cents per gram of alcohol scale.

But for the bottles x 24?
A box is approx 25 so it could double?

Eutow

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

No matter how many times this pitiful phrase is vomited out of the feeble minds of nanny state dunces it doesn't get any truer. There is no such thing as cheap alcohol in this country.
A quid for a can of crappy beer is not cheap.
14 quid for piss poor supermarket vodka is not cheap
7 quid for a bottle of chateaux de sh1thole is not cheap.
Yet people still drink them. If making alcohol expensive worked, then it would already have worked. High excise duties mean that people drink poisonous sh1te rather than a decent product. Minimum pricing will push people towards home brew, poteen and the black market.
The best things to do to change Ireland's attitude to alcohol would be to make going out cheap and to dust off Michael McDowell's Cáfe Bar legislation.

Are you attributing that bolded quote to me, or just agreeing with me when I called Prof Frank Murray a clown for using that statement?

Tin Foil Hat

Eutow wrote: »

Are you attributing that bolded quote to me, or just agreeing with me when I called Prof Frank Murray a clown for using that statement?

Agreeing with you. Your opinion was obvious.

Eutow

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Agreeing with you. Your opinion was obvious.

No probs. Sometimes people misread things by accident. And as it is Friday/Saturday morning....

Turpentine

worded wrote: »

But for the bottles x 24?
A box is approx 25 so it could double?

6x330ml bottles is just less than 4x500ml cans (1.98ltrs)

4% abv in a 500ml can is 2 units, 5% abv is 2.5 units etc.

4.3% (Heineken etc.) would be 34.4 units per 24 bottle case, so @ €1 per unit minimum would be €34.40 per case, €1.43 per bottle.

It just means the big breweries would water down their beer even more to get to a more attractive price point. The Irish drinker gets mainstream beer at watered down levels as it is (even slop like Budweiser is 5% abv in the US).

Ireland doesn't have a drinking problem. People who brag about drinking 20 "Irish" pints on a night out wouldn't last pissing time in Germany or Belgium.

Ireland has a lot of people who don't drink all week (funnily enough, probably because they don't want to be seen as alcoholics), and then get sloppy drunk when they do drink.

Either way, this legislation won't go through. It's just a way for Fine Gael to fob off the vintners.

Health grounds won't get it through, otherwise they wouldn't have had to get rid of the minimum price on cigarettes.

worded

Thanks, I will sleep better knowing it won't get through.

Bad enough to tax water, but this is just too much.

Beer is our right. I will fight, and have flight several times for beer.

Hiiiiic

Turpentine

worded wrote: »

Thanks, I will sleep better knowing it won't get through.

Bad enough to tax water, but this is just too much.

Beer is our right. I will fight, and have flight several times for beer.

Hiiiiic

Once you're fighting, flighting and hiiiiic-ing responsibly buddy.

Capt'n Midnight

Seeing as it's a health issue rather than a tax on the poor, would the publicans be against a system of ration cards ?

CruelCoin

worded wrote: »

But for the bottles x 24?
A box is approx 25 so it could double?

Sorry, didn't know what you meant by box (i don't bulk buy).

A 330cl bottle /100 *4 = 13.2cl of alcohol (assuming 4%).
If alcohol is priced at the upper limit of 11c per gram (1 gram is approx 1cl). Then it works out at €1.45 per bottle.
* 24 =€34.80

Grayson

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Seeing as it's a health issue rather than a tax on the poor, would the publicans be against a system of ration cards ?

Or forbidding them from serving anyone who looked moderately drunk.



In a couple of parts of the US (like Utah) there are bars and clubs where you are given a card when you enter. You have to present this card when you go to buy a drink. That way they can track how much everyone is drinking.

Tarzana2

Grayson wrote: »

Or forbidding them from serving anyone who looked moderately drunk.



In a couple of parts of the US (like Utah) there are bars and clubs where you are given a card when you enter. You have to present this card when you go to buy a drink. That way they can track how much everyone is drinking.

Of course that would never happen here. Because this has nothing to do with the health of the nation. Most pubs I've ever been to in my life will happily serve someone until they are falling down drunk. To stop serving someone after a certain point is to lose out on profit, ya see. And I guess if you're a business, that's what you're after. But then don't have your political puppets citing public health concerns as a reason for minimum pricing for alcohol.

elperello

Even at 70c per unit ie. €1.40 for a can €7.00 for wine a couple drinking 8 cans and a bottle of wine between them which is within Dept. of Health guidelines will end up paying €270.40 extra per annum.

Currently by purchasing special offers and less well known brands they can buy cans for €1.00 and wine for €5.00.

That's €270.40 extra each year for enjoying a safe level of a legal product in their own home.

syklops

Speaking as someone who doesnt really care about the Irish Water debate, this bill has really incensed me. I would have grudgingly paid the 300 extra Irish water bill. As the above example demonstrates, I will now being paying a minimum of 270 extra a year for my sensible drinking habits. That, or I will start doing regular beer runs to the north. Its not that I can't afford 270+ extra a year but this is the final straw for me.

worded

syklops wrote: »

Speaking as someone who doesnt really care about the Irish Water debate, this bill has really incensed me. I would have grudgingly paid the 300 extra Irish water bill. As the above example demonstrates, I will now being paying a minimum of 270 extra a year for my sensible drinking habits. That, or I will start doing regular beer runs to the north. Its not that I can't afford 270+ extra a year but this is the final straw for me.

+1 completely agree.
Fcuk the publicans for this. I will go out of my way now to make sure they don't get any extra € from me. I never go preloaded to pubs but I will start now.

Also I'm going to start home brewing and going up north and take some trips to France in a van and get wine

Go fcuk yourselves guberment and vitners

AlanS181824

Most pubs in Carlow are overpriced kips anyway!

Banjo String

They're trying to get this introduced in the north at the same time, to combat the very idea of going on a beer run up there.

What folk should be doing is organising a mass protest, say one Saturday or one Sunday in every month totally boycott pubs. (This should be piss easy really, head for social club/GAA and such instead of vfi bars)

Give it until may or June and Publicans wouldn't be long changing their tune.

darkpagandeath

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Most pubs in Carlow are overpriced kips anyway!

Most pubs here are, Who wants to sit being half deafened by a band or sky sport or what ever. Local pub should cater the a more relaxed atmosphere.

snubbleste

I thought people were boycotting pubs since publicans put in place a minimum price charge on New Year's Eve in 1999

TallGlass

Banjo String wrote: »

They're trying to get this introduced in the north at the same time, to combat the very idea of going on a beer run up there.

What folk should be doing is organising a mass protest, say one sat in every month totally boycott pubs.

Give it until may or June and Publicans wouldn't be long changing their tune.

I agree, I have just started to cut back on what I drink, just buy a 20 box of bottles or 24 cans of beer leave them in the back of my car if I feel like I want a beer I will grab 2/3 bottles/cans. I have cut back massively and saved loads of money. Hardly been out at all this year, it is a bit boring now. Same stuff week in week out, I will go out just it will be on the rare I will go out and if I do I won't be drinking much 3/4 pints.

TallGlass

Also just to add Scotland introduced this and from what I could see on the TV, think it was C4. The alcoholics drank just as much and in most cases bought something stronger IE spirits to compensate the lack of bulk in there order. IMO this is a worse situation, my Dad would be an alcoholic he is addicted to Vodka and it is 10x worse than your average alcoholic. Funny thing is I rather him sit around all day long drinking cans of beer. This new law/tax whatever it is, won't make a blind bit of difference to him, he will pay whatever to get his fix. It's more of a burden for other family members now as it puts more debt on us, as he will keep more of his money for drink and none for bills etc..

This is just a bad idea for everyone.

If anything, bars/pubs/clubs in Ireland should be allowed to go out of business and allowed to close down. We want to move Ireland away from a drink culture then this would be a start. Nothing wrong at all drinking at home.

The goverment need to stop poking around in the private sector and leave them to there own devices. Last time the goverment helped the private sector(banks) they made a complete balls of the country.

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Most pubs here are, Who wants to sit being half deafened by a band or sky sport or what ever. Local pub should cater the a more relaxed atmosphere.

An odd pub will get away without tv's but most won't. Even when there aren't big events on there will alway be a few in a group wanting to keep an eye on something or other on TV sport wise so pubs without sky lose a lot of business and that's leaving aside big matches, big golf tournaments etc.

I know the owner of one pub who tried cancelling sky, only lasted about two weeks as business took a nose dive without it.

Santa Cruz

Willa Juicy Sorrow wrote: »

An odd pub will get away without tv's but most won't. Even when there aren't big events on there will alway be a few in a group wanting to keep an eye on something or other on TV sport wise so pubs without sky lose a lot of business and that's leaving aside big matches, big golf tournaments etc.

I know the owner of one pub who tried cancelling sky, only lasted about two weeks as business took a nose dive without it.

Thats the reality of the situation. A certain age group may wish to drink in a quiet pub like something out of an Agatha Christie story. Young people (those that are left) want some music, Sky Sports etc. Other groups want to see the racing GAA etc. The days of belting off to the pub at 8.30 on a Fridfay evening is well and truly gone. The change in licensing hours allow drinking in to the early hours

StudentDad

Thing is we don't NEED to buy drink. It's a discretionary thing. If I'm shopping I think, 'will I buy a few bottles or cans of beer?' I'll look at what's available and if something is priced fairly I'll consider it. I've often left shops without drink because the price is too high.

I'm not an alcoholic. I can take it or leave it. The alcoholic won't. On that basis this min pricing thing will not cut down on sales of booze for those looking to get plastered. About all it'll do is put a few more quid in the pocket of the seller and govt. In a sense the govt. is cashing in on drinking culture.

It won't coerce people back to the pub and it won't hurt off licence sales. If anything it'll make people keep an eye on sterling and when the price is right they'll do a booze run to NI.

Typical populist, 'we're doing something about booze culture, honest we are.' When in reality doing absolutely nothing.

SD