The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

elperello

senordingdong wrote: »

A good point, but $$$$$$$$ is really what it really comes down to.

It's the $$$ all right, more exactly the €€€ in the responsible drinkers wallet that is being targeted.

If this minimum price comes in a couple drinking up to the HSE guidelines (ie. 17 units for him and 11 units for her per week) will end up paying about €200 extra per year. For what? Because someone down the road is drinking himself to death or a bunch of kids are drinking in the bushes somewhere.

The responsible drinkers enjoying a safe level of a legal product in the comfort of their own home are being played for fools by this minimum pricing.

syklops

elperello wrote: »

It's the $$$ all right, more exactly the €€€ in the responsible drinkers wallet that is being targeted.

If this minimum price comes in a couple drinking up to the HSE guidelines (ie. 17 units for him and 11 units for her per week) will end up paying about €200 extra per year. For what? Because someone down the road is drinking himself to death or a bunch of kids are drinking in the bushes somewhere.

The responsible drinkers enjoying a safe level of a legal product in the comfort of their own home are being played for fools by this minimum pricing.

Considering the utter disaster the HSE is currently in, I think it very cynical of Varadkar to spend time on trying to get this bill through. He is fiddling while Rome burns.

dr.fuzzenstein

elperello wrote: »

I think this letter in the Irish Times sums it up nicely -


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/diageo-and-alcohol-awareness-campaigns-1.2119041

Sadly this makes sense, so will be ignored by the health Nazis and the politicians who have hijacked their warped agenda to rip us off for more money.

senordingdong

syklops wrote: »

Considering the utter disaster the HSE is currently in, I think it very cynical of Varadkar to spend time on trying to get this bill through. He is fiddling while Rome burns.

The health portfolio is a poison chalice that Varadkar can not fix. No one can.
All he can do is survive it.
He'll try to use this as an example of success to distract from the real problems, then offload the portfolio to the next minister.

darkpagandeath

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Sadly this makes sense, so will be ignored by the health Nazis and the politicians who have hijacked their warped agenda to rip us off for more money.

Yup the health Nazis don't like being told were are actually pretty healthy and living a decent life expectancy. Sure they will say but 81 is not enough lets head for 100..... On thing I don't get on this kind of argument on health is. Ireland has already accepted we will have a massive old people issue coming down the line. The two don't really gel, someone is laying I can guess who it is.

Idbatterim

I wonder what Mary Mitchell O'Connor would make of the E1.25 pints being offered in the forty foot yesterday!

https://scontent-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11021207_612946365503476_4607565091634626817_n.jpg?oh=85cf7ad6114db6f5d325d07682419772&oe=554901DD

dr.fuzzenstein

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yup the health Nazis don't like being told were are actually pretty healthy and living a decent life expectancy. Sure they will say but 81 is not enough lets head for 100..... On thing I don't get on this kind of argument on health is. Ireland has already accepted we will have a massive old people issue coming down the line. The two don't really gel, someone is laying I can guess who it is.

Politicians never do anything for the good of anyone other than themselves. They don't give a sh*t whether you are dead in a ditch as long as you voted for the cnut. I'm in Germany right now where you can buy a bottle of vodka for a fiver and a six pack of beer for the princely sum of two euros! People puking, fighting and pissing in the street are conspicuous by their absence. So the price argument is horse sh*t right there. Someone is looking to get reelected and wants to pander to the table banging brigade or more likely is in someones pocket and is getting bought. The only thing to do is to organise booze and fag cruises and buy a years supply for a fraction of the price.

the groutch

elperello wrote: »

It's the $$$ all right, more exactly the €€€ in the responsible drinkers wallet that is being targeted.

If this minimum price comes in a couple drinking up to the HSE guidelines (ie. 17 units for him and 11 units for her per week) will end up paying about €200 extra per year. For what? Because someone down the road is drinking himself to death or a bunch of kids are drinking in the bushes somewhere.

The responsible drinkers enjoying a safe level of a legal product in the comfort of their own home are being played for fools by this minimum pricing.

FG making sensible people pay for the mistakes of the reckless, like that's never happened before :rolleyes:

syklops

senordingdong wrote: »

The health portfolio is a poison chalice that Varadkar can not fix. No one can.
All he can do is survive it.
He'll try to use this as an example of success to distract from the real problems, then offload the portfolio to the next minister.

I disagree. Saying no-one can fix it is an easy way to opt out. It would take a lot of work and a bit of money plus a lot of imagination but it could be done. Unfortunately, all Ireland has is the bit of money.

dr.fuzzenstein

syklops wrote: »

I disagree. Saying no-one can fix it is an easy way to opt out. It would take a lot of work and a bit of money plus a lot of imagination but it could be done. Unfortunately, all Ireland has is the bit of money.

Its not about money, it is about the unions and various interest groups. They need to be taken out. Reform needs to be introduced and let them fcuking winge and strike and eventually lock them out. You would need someone like Maggie Thatcher to take them on, but Irish politicians do not have the balls for it. They all just want to appease everyone, but if you want to fix this there will have to be major bloodshed. Also, its not the doctors and nurses I'm talking about its the tens of thousands of useless admin staff who got hired in the 80s as a posh way of being on the dole, 10000 of them could go overnight with no Ill effect.

OldNotWIse

the groutch wrote: »

FG making sensible people pay for the mistakes of the reckless, like that's never happened before :rolleyes:

I want to thank this twice

syklops

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Its not about money, it is about the unions and various interest groups. They need to be taken out. Reform needs to be introduced and let them fcuking winge and strike and eventually lock them out. You would need someone like Maggie Thatcher to take them on, but Irish politicians do not have the balls for it. They all just want to appease everyone, but if you want to fix this there will have to be major bloodshed. Also, its not the doctors and nurses I'm talking about its the tens of thousands of useless admin staff who got hired in the 80s as a posh way of being on the dole, 10000 of them could go overnight with no Ill effect.

Im going to disagree with you slightly and say, it is some nurses and Doctors. Its the culture and the work ethic.

My cousin is a nurse and she broke her thumb(on the dancefloor in a niteclub in Paris, not at work btw). She was on paid "sick" leave for three months. I'll accept she couldnt do her normal duties but she could answer the phone, or she could supervise patients or do lots of other things. But no, she was at home on full pay. On top of that she didnt see anything wrong with it.

dr.fuzzenstein

^^^^^^^^
I get where you coming from and agree to a degree. But the one huge elephant in the room that is never mentioned by anyone are the myriad of HSE admin staff that work away nowhere near a hospital. There are thousands of them and they're nowhere near a hospital, hidden away in admin centers. When there is protest against cuts to the health service, these people are very carefully swept under the carpet and not mentioned. There are thousands and thousands of pen pushers that do practically nothing and if they want to find where they can cut millions and millions, right there. But since they are civil servants, they are untouchable and can't be gotten rid of. A proper health minister would start there.

Cantona's Collars

Duty cut on booze in the UK in today's budget: http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2015/03/duty-on-beer-cider-and-spirits-cut/

Duty on wine will be frozen.

Speaking today, Osborne said: “Last year I cut beer duty for a second year in a row and the industry estimates it helped to create 16,000 jobs. Today I am cutting beer duty for a third year in a row taking another penny off a pint. I am also cutting cider duty by 2% to support our producers in the West Country and elsewhere. To back one of the UK’s biggest exports the duty on Scotch whisky and spirits will be cut by 2% as well. Wine duty will be frozen, more pubs saved, jobs created, families supported – and a penny off a pint for the third year in a row.”

syklops

zerks wrote: »

Duty cut on booze in the UK in today's budget: http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2015/03/duty-on-beer-cider-and-spirits-cut/

This is good news. If nothing else it will mean a return to gun running beer running to the North.

nelly17

syklops wrote: »

This is good news. If nothing else it will mean a return to gun running beer running to the North.

Not with the current Euro/Sterling Value

the groutch

It's a penny off the price of a pint which probably not be passed on.
Total non-story.

ScumLord

the groutch wrote: »

It's a penny off the price of a pint which probably not be passed on.
Total non-story.

They have proper competition in the UK though, they'll pass that on because one of their competitors will.

syklops

nelly17 wrote: »

Not with the current Euro/Sterling Value

Asda: Jameson £16 which is 22 euro. RRP for Jameson is 29.99 euro.

I know its not a continent-level saving, but if you buy in bulk you start saving money fast.Also, thats at its current price. Once the minimum price comes in you can expect the RRP to rise in the republic.

dr.fuzzenstein

ScumLord wrote: »

They have proper competition in the UK though, they'll pass that on because one of their competitors will.

True. In Ireland they would probably jack up the price if it actually came down. Just look at banks. Interest rates going down? Time to jack up those variable mortgages.
The reasoning here is "I could put it down, but no one will notice a cent. If no one will notice a cent, I stick another cent on top of the price, I'm making 2 cents. Why stop at one measly cent, though? Make it 2, no 3, no wait, 5 cents, yep, that'll do!"
And then all other pubs would follow suit, citing "rising costs" as an excuse. There will be some pissing and moaning about it, but nothing serious.

PARlance

syklops wrote: »

Asda: Jameson £16 which is 22 euro. RRP for Jameson is 29.99 euro.

I know its not a continent-level saving, but if you buy in bulk you start saving money fast.Also, thats at its current price. Once the minimum price comes in you can expect the RRP to rise in the republic.

Comparing an "offer price" in Asda against the RRP here is disingenuous.
The RRP in Asda is £21.xx (=€29)
It's on offer in Tesco here for €25 btw.

The Euro only seems to be going one way too.

syklops

PARlance wrote: »

Comparing an "offer price" in Asda against the RRP here is disingenuous.
It's on offer in Tesco here for €25 btw.

The Euro only seems to be going one way too.

Thats a fair point.

Wonder what the difference will be like after the bill gets signed in here, and after the duty on spirits has been cut by 2% over there. That might widen the gap a little bit.

PARlance

syklops wrote: »

Thats a fair point.

Wonder what the difference will be like after the bill gets signed in here, and after the duty on spirits has been cut by 2% over there. That might widen the gap a little bit.

Not sure how much the bill will effect that example but I would guess that the exchange rate will negate the 2% cut.

syklops

PARlance wrote: »

Not sure how much the bill will effect that example but I would guess that the exchange rate will negate the 2% cut.

I know many people disagree with me but I honestly believe that when the cheapest alcohol, we'll say whiskey, goes up by 3 or 4 euros, more expensive brands will go up as well.

Flex

syklops wrote: »

I know many people disagree with me but I honestly believe that when the cheapest alcohol, we'll say whiskey, goes up by 3 or 4 euros, more expensive brands will go up as well.

I don't know how anyone could disagree with that.

Take Jameson, for example. If the leaks are correct and a bottle of spirits costs a minimum of €30 going forward, will they allow Jameson to sit on shelf at €30 right next to a bottle of Tesco Value whisky that's €30 too? Not likely.

Similarly for Heineken, Guinness, and all of the branded beers. If a tray of 24 cans ends up costing €50-€55, those companies wont have their branded, marketed, 'premium image' products sitting on a shelf next to Everyday Value cans of beer.

And its not about profiteering, its more about brand equity.

Publicans will love that of course, makes their prices seem more competitive with the off trade without them having to change their prices to reasonable levels. While this is anecdotal and its already well established that on trade prices in Ireland are a rip off, I was in the city centre on Monday evening with friends and ordered some water. Was given two bottles of Ballygowan 330ml and charged €6.40 for the two of them (equivalent of being charged about €20 for a 2 litre bottle). Needless to say I didn't buy them! But it compounded the frustration that these are the types of businesses and practices that the government is driving up off trade prices to support

Custardpi

Ah yes, but sure aren't publicans promoting "responsible drinking" in safe environment? I mean, imagine you had bought those two bottles of water in a shop for €1.30 or so each. God only knows that social harm that would have resulted.

rubadub

Flex wrote: »

Take Jameson, for example. If the leaks are correct and a bottle of spirits costs a minimum of €30 going forward, will they allow Jameson to sit on shelf at €30 right next to a bottle of Tesco Value whisky that's €30 too? Not likely.

I think its unlikely tesco value whiskey will be sold, there would be little demand for it, or the tesco value beers.

Tesco have value whiskey at 15.99 and "special reserve" tesco whiskey at 22.39, alongside jameson at €25.

If 50g bars of chocolate were €2.50 minimum price for similar reasons I would just expect the tesco value chocolate to disappear from the shelves.

I agree prices might rise for this reason, but just think the cheapest products will disappear. Though some might prefer them taste wise.

It will be interesting to see what the marketing people come up with. They will probably have to attempt to ban free gifts with products.

It will also be interesting to see what producers do, will they ditch products which no longer sell. Will diageo drop the cheaper stuff, will smirnoff see a huge increase in sales of smirnoff black over the cheaply made red.

irish_goat

ScumLord wrote: »

They have proper competition in the UK though, they'll pass that on because one of their competitors will.

It also means less chance of a price increase.

syklops

rubadub wrote: »

I think its unlikely tesco value whiskey will be sold, there would be little demand for it, or the tesco value beers.

Tesco have value whiskey at 15.99 and "special reserve" tesco whiskey at 22.39, alongside jameson at €25.

Jameson is currently on special offer at 26. Its usual price is 29.99 with some places gouging 32.99 for it.

"Value" products won't disappear, they wil just go up in price to match the minimum price regulations. If the minimum price for whiskey goes up to 18.99, Tesco Everyday whiskey will go up to 18.99. That will start the domino effect and everything else will go up. It costs Tesco less to produce tesco Whiskey than it costs the next cheapest producer of whiskey to produce their whiskey. Tesco value whiskey is sold all over europe. They're not going to stop making it just because Ireland has gone insane. It will still be on the shelves and it will still be sold. Dunphys will take the risk and put theirs up by 50 cent, because their market research tells them no-one wants to be seen buying tesco own brand whiskey.

That brings Dunphys up to 19.49. Bushmills regularly retails for around 22 meaning they are now 2.50 more expensive than the cheapest possible whiskey being Dunphys. Bushmills fans are proud of the bushmills(so they should be), and so begins a poker style,how much do we raise by with out it being too much?

I don't know how anyone could disagree with that.

Me neither but they do.

Custardpi

I'd be interested to know how much of their own brand whiskey Tesco actually sells. I can't imagine it tastes particularly good but maybe it's ok in Irish coffee.