The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

dan1895

mikemac1 wrote: »

Went to the bar in Tolka Park on Friday night to watch league of Ireland football. You'd want a stiff drink if you saw the Shels keeper dealing with crosses :eek:

There was a time when a fiver in Dublin would get you a long neck Heineken, now it's about 5.40 - 5.50

3.50 said the barman

Now I did buy a match ticket to get in there but I was happy. Normally stadiums gouge you for money

A salute to the club :cool:

A decent pint of Guinness, bottles of Smithwicks and a few choices from O'Hara's are all available there too. The bar is now run by the fans and they actually surveyed punters before the start of the season and it shows.
Was a decent crowd in after the Athlone game a couple of weeks ago. Not packed but more thatn I've seen in the past couple of years. On my way home I stopped into Kennedy's across the road and there was two auld lads in there and the place was more depressing than watching the Shels' keeper try to catch a ball.

elperello

Dr. Varadker has announced that he will publish a Bill in the Summer to bring in Minimum Unit Pricing.

He says he is concerned that women can buy enough drink to reach their safe limit for €6.30 and men for less than €10.

He wants to eliminate cheap alcohol but not affect the price of a glass of wine in a pizzeria.

See report here http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/alcohol-bill-to-be-published-during-summer-varadkar-says-1.2186504

jobbridge4life

elperello wrote: »

Dr. Varadker has announced that he will publish a Bill in the Summer to bring in Minimum Unit Pricing.

He says he is concerned that women can buy enough drink to reach their safe limit for €6.30 and men for less than €10.

He wants to eliminate cheap alcohol but not affect the price of a glass of wine in a pizzeria.

See report here http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/alcohol-bill-to-be-published-during-summer-varadkar-says-1.2186504

A pizzeria? What the actual f? He wants to stop people of limited means drinking that is all.

cerastes

elperello wrote: »

Dr. Varadker has announced that he will publish a Bill in the Summer to bring in Minimum Unit Pricing.

He says he is concerned that women can buy enough drink to reach their safe limit for €6.30 and men for less than €10.

He wants to eliminate cheap alcohol but not affect the price of a glass of wine in a pizzeria.

See report here http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/alcohol-bill-to-be-published-during-summer-varadkar-says-1.2186504

What next? set up our own Stasi? why dont they impose the rules on the supply end too, and those falling about the place drunk?

Blocking up A&E because you're pissed, an appropriate surcharge on top of the existing fee, places continuing to serve people pissed, penalise them.

Or how about some education on whats acceptable? at an age where it might have an effect. I am more concerned about alcohol being able to be sold to juveniles than any of what he says, who was serving this to kids before the below cost sellers were on the scene? offl licences, in the most part attached to pubs.

Anyone caught selling to juveniles should have fines imposed on them that wont make it worth being in business or encourage rigourous enforcement of underage sales.
Same for supermarkets.

Let the adults decide what they want to do and those that are affected pay for the consequences financially.

Gone mad on drink and caught in anti social behaviour, garnish SW payments.
For those that are sensible and have a bottle or two, I prefer not have a jumped up politician tell me what to do, imposing their supposedly own values and alleged morality on the rest of us, but behaving to a different standard themselves.

cerastes

jobbridge4life wrote: »

A pizzeria? What the actual f? He wants to stop people of limited means drinking that is all.

Can stick his Self righteous moral crusading where the sun doesnt shine, bunch of hypocrites pandering to a lobby element, how he thinks this can turn back the droves that turned away from their lobbyist supporters.
Going back to their roots, dont want to godwin this thread, but moral extremists concern me more than any other kind of extremism and ours is at hand.

This guy really concerns me, moral crusaders are usually the worst kind of hypocrites.

elperello

Slight ray of hope here as at last a politician starts to question this MUP nonsense.

"Sinn Féin spokesman for health Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin said minimum unit pricing is not “the panacea” and that it disproportionately targets those on lower incomes. "

cerastes

elperello wrote: »

Slight ray of hope here as at last a politician starts to question this MUP nonsense.

"Sinn Féin spokesman for health Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin said minimum unit pricing is not “the panacea” and that it disproportionately targets those on lower incomes. "

Exactly, and this is what varadker is effectively stating, his baby will stop all ills regrading drinking, no, it wont. Those that want to drink still will, those addicted especially at the lower end of the financial scale will furhter worsen the lives of those around them, as shock horror they will spend more of their familys resources to get what they want at all costs.

syklops

elperello wrote: »

Slight ray of hope here as at last a politician starts to question this MUP nonsense.

"Sinn Féin spokesman for health Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin said minimum unit pricing is not “the panacea” and that it disproportionately targets those on lower incomes. "

Its a sad day in Irish politics when Im agreeing with Sinn Fein.

Seriously Fine Gael need to be careful with this move. To people who stay within the Department of Healths guidelines the result of the bill will increase their expenditure on booze by about 270 euros a year. Thats about the same as the water charges.

On top of that the Irish electorate are a fickle lot. FF ran the country into the ground and haven't recovered support yet and may never. However, run country in to ground causing a few years of unpleasentness is one thing. Permanently making booze more expensive(just because we can) is quite another, and has a much more permanent effect on the hearts and minds of your average voter.

cerastes

syklops wrote: »

Its a sad day in Irish politics when Im agreeing with Sinn Fein.

Seriously Fine Gael need to be careful with this move. To people who stay within the Department of Healths guidelines the result of the bill will increase their expenditure on booze by about 270 euros a year. Thats about the same as the water charges.

On top of that the Irish electorate are a fickle lot. FF ran the country into the ground and haven't recovered support yet and may never. However, run country in to ground causing a few years of unpleasentness is one thing. Permanently making booze more expensive(just because we can) is quite another, and has a much more permanent effect on the hearts and minds of your average voter.

I fullt expect this is the main thrust of it, increase revenue and via their lobbyist supporters, that its a health concern, its just the means to implement it, if they were really concerned about helath and well being there are a host of things that could be dealt with, this costs them nothing but potentially brings in money and for thier supporters.
It may actually do nothing and likely wont, other than cost people more, it actually does not even tackle any problem associated with drinking.

Honestly I didnt want to see pubs go out of business, but after my last visit where there was a restaraunt as part of the place and a food offer enticed us in , I was dismayed at the cost of the drink relative to the whole thing, especially as we werent drinking alcohol, cater to the non or limited drinking business isnt a consideration but instead gouge you for a splash of diluteable something in water or a coke.

elperello

cerastes wrote: »

I fullt expect this is the main thrust of it, increase revenue and via their lobbyist supporters, that its a health concern, its just the means to implement it, if they were really concerned about helath and well being there are a host of things that could be dealt with, this costs them nothing but potentially brings in money and for thier supporters.
It may actually do nothing and likely wont, other than cost people more, it actually does not even tackle any problem associated with drinking.

Honestly I didnt want to see pubs go out of business, but after my last visit where there was a restaraunt as part of the place and a food offer enticed us in , I was dismayed at the cost of the drink relative to the whole thing, especially as we werent drinking alcohol, cater to the non or limited drinking business isnt a consideration but instead gouge you for a splash of diluteable something in water or a coke.

Just to point out that there are four major trade players lobbying for Minimum Unit Pricing.

Licensed Vintners Association www.lva.ie
Vintners Federation of Ireland www.vfi.ie
Restaurants Association of Ireland www.rai.ie
National Off Licence Association www.noffla.ie

Have a look at their websites and see what they are saying.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Thank **** I do not live in that contry any more.

syklops

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Thank **** I do not live in that contry any more.

"That country"?

Billy86

syklops wrote: »

"That country"?

Ireland.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

syklops wrote: »

"That country"?

Yep, that's the one.

hatrickpatrick

The EU isn't going to issue a ruling on the Scottish case until 2016. Which again raises the question: How does one take a case to the ECJ? Can it be done by a citizen of the EU or does it have to be by a company / referral by a national court / etc?

If someone takes a case on this identical to the Scottish case, we can get an injunction on it until at least the Scottish ruling is issued.

dr.fuzzenstein

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The EU isn't going to issue a ruling on the Scottish case until 2016. Which again raises the question: How does one take a case to the ECJ? Can it be done by a citizen of the EU or does it have to be by a company / referral by a national court / etc?

If someone takes a case on this identical to the Scottish case, we can get an injunction on it until at least the Scottish ruling is issued.

I hope Diageo is on the case.

syklops

Billy86 wrote: »

Ireland.

I got it. Why the fuc* is she posting on boards and giving her opinion but referring to Ireland as "That country".

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:

Yep, that's the one.

What the f*ck is your problem?

hatrickpatrick

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I hope Diageo is on the case.

I doubt it, Diageo joined that recent government initiative to push in favour of it. :mad:

hatrickpatrick

syklops wrote: »

I got it. Why the fuc* is she posting on boards and giving her opinion but referring to Ireland as "That country".



What the f*ck is your problem?

Chill, even though I love Ireland I can increasingly sympathize with emigrants who have disdain for it. This type of nanny state crap is far more endemic in Ireland and the UK than it is pretty much anywhere else in the West.

syklops

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I hope Diageo is on the case.

Government wants to make alcohol more expensive. Why would a company who sells alcohol disagree?

hatrickpatrick

syklops wrote: »

Government wants to make alcohol more expensive. Why would a company who sells alcohol disagree?

Well the Scotch Whisky Association regards it as anti competitive because it sells its booze at competitive prices compared to imports.

syklops

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well the Scotch Whisky Association regards it as anti competitive because it sells its booze at competitive prices compared to imports.

Thats because the Scotch Whiskey Association is a scottish company and is in direct competition with Irish, American, Czech and Japanese whiskies.

Diageo is a French alcohol provider and Ireland is a cash cow for them.

hatrickpatrick

syklops wrote: »

Thats because the Scotch Whiskey Association is a scottish company and is in direct competition with Irish, American, Czech and Japanese whiskies.

Diageo is a French alcohol provider and Ireland is a cash cow for them.

Sure but perhaps Jameson or Bushmills will take the case?

syklops

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Sure but perhaps Jameson or Bushmills will take the case?

Jameson is owned by Pernod Ricard, another french company. Bushmills is owned by Jose Cuevo, a mexican company.

The only Irish owned producer of whiskey currently producing and selling whiskey in Ireland is the Teeling Whiskey company.

ScumLord

Leo Varadkar wrote:

It needs to be low enough so that it eliminates very cheap alcohol but not so high that it affects the price of my glass of wine in the pizzeria

FYP there Leo.

This is all just a lame government finding easy targets to make it look like their actually doing something. It's like every time a new party get's into government they see how messed up the last guys left it and rather than do something about it they ignore the issues and try and find anything else they can focus on hoping that everybody will look at that rather than the horrible outdated mess our government has become.

dr.fuzzenstein

ScumLord wrote: »

FYP there Leo.

This is all just a lame government finding easy targets to make it look like their actually doing something. It's like every time a new party get's into government they see how messed up the last guys left it and rather than do something about it they ignore the issues and try and find anything else they can focus on hoping that everybody will look at that rather than the horrible outdated mess our government has become.

It's strong man politics. "Everyone look at me as I bang my fist on the table! yes, I can sort out this mess purely by banging the table, see how easy that was? I am smarter than everyone before me and after me! I am so smart! I am so smart! S.M.R.T!"

elperello

ScumLord wrote: »

FYP there Leo.

This is all just a lame government finding easy targets to make it look like their actually doing something. It's like every time a new party get's into government they see how messed up the last guys left it and rather than do something about it they ignore the issues and try and find anything else they can focus on hoping that everybody will look at that rather than the horrible outdated mess our government has become.

You are right and Dr Varadkar is remarkably frank about his intentions

“This legislation has been bandied around for 3-4 years and it wasn’t possible to get agreement on this. We’re in year four of the parliament and I want to get good stuff done,” Mr Varadkar told the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children.

elperello

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The EU isn't going to issue a ruling on the Scottish case until 2016. Which again raises the question: How does one take a case to the ECJ? Can it be done by a citizen of the EU or does it have to be by a company / referral by a national court / etc?

If someone takes a case on this identical to the Scottish case, we can get an injunction on it until at least the Scottish ruling is issued.

As with anyone considering litigation you would need proper legal advice on this course of action as it would involve a lot of work and possible costs if the action failed. An individual can take a case if they can show that they are directly affected. It seems unlikely that any move will be made by the Irish Government until there is a decision on the Scottish case so an injunction, even if it were possible, may not be necessary.

elperello

More support for Minimum Unit Pricing from charities including -

Barnardos
ISPCC
Irish Cancer Society
Rape Crisis Network of Ireland

http://alcoholireland.ie/uncategorized/national-charities-and-medical-representative-organisations-back-call-for-minimum-pricing/

dr.fuzzenstein

elperello wrote: »

More support for Minimum Unit Pricing from charities including -

Barnardos
ISPCC
Irish Cancer Society
Rape Crisis Network of Ireland

http://alcoholireland.ie/uncategorized/national-charities-and-medical-representative-organisations-back-call-for-minimum-pricing/

Well, hurray, the magic bullet that will solve ALL our problems has been found! :rolleyes:
For some reason jacking up the price of drink over the years has done nothing, so the new solution is...jack up the price. Well done everyone.
It's enough to drive you to drink.