The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

dr.fuzzenstein

VinLieger wrote: »

Exactly, i was really disgusted by the insinuation that people are not entitled to drink whatever the fvck they like with dinner and should basically be checking with their GP about ever unit of alcohol they consume

And that's it really? We are not entitled to make our own choices, politicians, the vintner's federation and GP's get the last say over what we can and cannot do.
To the above I say "cram it up your ass"
I would love to buy a small bus and advertise booze cruises to France. Hop on the ferry, clean out a hypermarket and bingo, problem solved. I reckon that could be quite popular.

VinLieger wrote: »

Your don't use grapes, you buy a box kit that has a bag of grape juice plus yeast and clearing agents in it...

I am officially amazed! I would not have thunk it.

dr.fuzzenstein

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Only if it's in a Pub and terribly expensive then it's ok.

It has to come from a small bottle of course, never on tap or from a big bottle like anywhere else in the world.
When they're finished making the wine, they mop up all the spillover from the floor, that goes into the small bottles. And of course that way they get to charge you €10 for what is basically one glass of (sh*t) wine in a useless, small bottle.
I knew the Irish don't like beer (Budweiser and Heineken), but they REALLY despise wine, otherwise why do we try everything possible to kill all enjoyment from it?

the groutch

all these health organizations are missing a trick here.
if they really want people drinking less, they should be campaigning to have the price of soft drinks lowered in pubs.
is it any wonder people are drinking so much alcohol when they are in a pubs, when the non-alcoholic alternatives are more expensive?

dr.fuzzenstein

the groutch wrote: »

all these health organizations are missing a trick here.
if they really want people drinking less, they should be campaigning to have the price of soft drinks lowered in pubs.
is it any wonder people are drinking so much alcohol when they are in a pubs, when the non-alcoholic alternatives are more expensive?

The problem is, this is all about the pubs.
Pubs do not want to compete, they just want to go on as they always have, in their minds it's still the 70's. They think the entire problem is those damn supermarkets selling "cheap" booze and people having house parties.
In every interview with any representative from the vintner's federation, that has been one of their big, constant complaints over the last few years, in fact ever since pubs have been going downhill. "Untrained" lay people dishing out spirits not using a pub measure and therefore giving people generous helpings of booze, instead of that miserable, stingy thimble they use in the pubs and then charge you a fcuking fortune for.
I bet they wake up with a scream at 3 am, drenched in sweat at the very thought of that.
This is not about saving lives, this is not about people's health, this is to literally force people into pubs. I'm sure they would enact a law on mandatory pub attendance if they could.

darkpagandeath

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The problem is, this is all about the pubs.
Pubs do not want to compete, they just want to go on as they always have, in their minds it's still the 70's. They think the entire problem is those damn supermarkets selling "cheap" booze and people having house parties.
In every interview with any representative from the vintner's federation, that has been one of their big, constant complaints over the last few years, in fact ever since pubs have been going downhill. "Untrained" lay people dishing out spirits not using a pub measure and therefore giving people generous helpings of booze, instead of that miserable, stingy thimble they use in the pubs and then charge you a fcuking fortune for.
I bet they wake up with a scream at 3 am, drenched in sweat at the very thought of that.
This is not about saving lives, this is not about people's health, this is to literally force people into pubs. I'm sure they would enact a law on mandatory pub attendance if they could.

Well to be fair they are used to not passing on the saving to the customers anyway. You know from cheaper EU suppliers. But when someone comes in that does not gouge the customer to much it's them selling alcohol below cost. Still waiting them to prove that below cost mantra as well.

the groutch

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

This is not about saving lives, this is not about people's health, this is to literally force people into pubs.

they could force a lot more people into pubs if they didn't charge €3 for a 200ml bottle of coke watered down with ice.
they need to get themselves into the 21st century where not everyone who wants to go to a pub wants to get plastered.

dr.fuzzenstein

the groutch wrote: »

they could force a lot more people into pubs if they didn't charge €3 for a 200ml bottle of coke watered down with ice.
they need to get themselves into the 21st century where not everyone who wants to go to a pub wants to get plastered.

"Economics of scale" obviously does not feature on publican's training plan.
Their thinking is "but if I charge more, I make more!" and all attempts to explain that the opposite is true will fall on deaf ears.
A publican thinks "If I want to make more money, I simply charge more" and that's where the thought process ends.
When I said they live in the 70's, I meant the 1870's. Pubs moving into the 21st century? The 20th would be a start.
Pubs don't think as far as "If I make it more attractive for people to go and if I don't gouge them, they will come!", they think "People are drinking at home! We'll soon fix that!" and then get on to their cousin or brother, the TD. Unless they're a TD themselves.

rubadub

the groutch wrote: »

if they really want people drinking less, they should be campaigning to have the price of soft drinks lowered in pubs.

+1 they could have maximum prices for soft drinks. I think there may have been maximum prices for alcohol years back, saw it mentioned in very old acts on www.irishstatutebook.ie

If a max price was set then you would see publicans doing more sensible things, like football clubs do, like buy a 2L bottle of coke and pour it instead. Some stingy pubs might start stocking cheap & nasty stuff though.

The price of those miserable 200ml bottles is stupid, for both the customer and publican. You can check out the prices from wholesalers online, I did before and cans in supermarkets were cheaper.

The 200ml portion is so expensive some of my friends split it with each other, or hold onto half for their next spirit. I have seen people are putting treble vodkas into 100ml of coke, pretty much mixing half & half -which they would never do at home. This is often done at last orders time as they are so drunk they can handle the strong taste, then go out to the streets with it yet to take effect & cause aggro or fall about the place -but that's another thread in itself...

Eutow

rubadub wrote: »

+1 they could have maximum prices for soft drinks. I think there may have been maximum prices for alcohol years back, saw it mentioned in very old acts on www.irishstatutebook.ie

If a max price was set then you would see publicans doing more sensible things, like football clubs do, like buy a 2L bottle of coke and pour it instead. Some stingy pubs might start stocking cheap & nasty stuff though.

The price of those miserable 200ml bottles is stupid, for both the customer and publican. You can check out the prices from wholesalers online, I did before and cans in supermarkets were cheaper.

I can never understand why Irish pubs don't have the dispenser to dispense soft drinks, coke, orange and red bull, like they do on the continent or North America. Buying those small bottles costs more because of the glass, and because you can't buy them anywhere besides a small number of suppliers.

I worked for a wholesaler briefly and they could buy a case of coke (cans) (24 in a case) for E4.56. Now obviously as a wholesaler they maybe are buying more bulk, so can get a better discount, but even still, a pub that negotiates well could get a price that isn't a lot more. Pubs don't seem to be good at negotiating or sourcing different suppliers. If pubs were to use a dispenser instead of bottles, they could buy cases of coke and pour it into the dispenser.

Cookie_Monster

why aren't soft drinks on tap in Irish pubs, like every other country. Fortune to be saved right there.

the groutch

Wetherspoons are one of the few that do, €1.95 for approx 400ml.
they do the even smarter thing of including it in the price of their lunches, so guaranteed a sale every time.

kylith

They used to be on tap in Barcode in Fairview, but it didn't make any difference to the price. When the precedent is there for a coke to be, what, E2.50 then that's what they're going to charge.

Flex

kylith wrote: »

They used to be on tap in Barcode in Fairview, but it didn't make any difference to the price. When the precedent is there for a coke to be, what, E2.50 then that's what they're going to charge.

What I had seen on a program about excessive prices in bars was that bars charge by the drink. What that meant was each drink a person had had to cost €5-6 regardless of the mark up that entailed or the actual cost to the bar. So

• A pint of beer costs €5-6
• A measure of spirits costs €5-6
• Enough soft drinks to fill a pint glass costs €5-6 (although recently Ive been charged €2.80 - €3 for a 113ml bottle)
• 187ml bottle/glass of wine costs €5-6

To put those prices in context, if a typical retailer charged as much per ml as a typical bar then

• 24 cans of beer would cost ~€115
• 700ml bottle of Jameson would cost ~€105
• 2 litre bottle of coke would cost ~€30 (or ~€50 based on 113mls at €2.70)
• 750ml bottle of wine would cost ~€25

darkpagandeath

Flex wrote: »

What I had seen on a program about excessive prices in bars was that bars charge by the drink. What that meant was each drink a person had had to cost €5-6 regardless of the mark up that entailed or the actual cost to the bar. So

• A pint of beer costs €5-6
• A measure of spirits costs €5-6
• Enough soft drinks to fill a pint glass costs €5-6 (although recently Ive been charged €2.80 - €3 for a 113ml bottle)
• 187ml bottle/glass of wine costs €5-6

To put those prices in context, if a typical retailer charged as much per ml as a typical bar then

• 24 cans of beer would cost ~€115
• 700ml bottle of Jameson would cost ~€105
• 2 litre bottle of coke would cost ~€30 (or ~€50 based on 113mls at €2.70)
• 750ml bottle of wine would cost ~€25

Sweet Zombie Jesus.

Help!!!!

People need to shop around their local pubs to get good value
I have found 3 pubs so far where I can get value for my €
I can get Tuborg in one for €3.10, Tuborg in another for €3.50 & Becks Vier for €4 in another
Before people start saying its piss or whatever I like Tuborg & Becks Vier partly because I have IBS so Guinness is out of the question.

rubadub

Eutow wrote: »

I can never understand why Irish pubs don't have the dispenser to dispense soft drinks,

Some do, but if you are unaware 99% of the time they will give you the more profitable coke instead. Most call it a "splash" here.

I was in a local chinese restaurant and 2 of us in a party of 6 asked for a coke, the waiter offered a 2L of coke saying he would keep it in the fridge and come pour it when we wanted. I was very impressed, dunno the price as we didn't bother but I bet it was reasonable. I see this in some rural bars and football club type bars -a big bottle of coke for the kids to attract the parents.

the groutch wrote: »

Wetherspoons are one of the few that do, €1.95 for approx 400ml.

They also give a free splash (except coke or energy drinks) with all their spirits, or a 200ml bottle of coke is a more reasonable €1.50. You can get a double measure for just €2 more. So a double absolut vodka and splash of pepsi is €5.95. Some bars would charge that for a single absolut. Jameson & powers are also the same price.

Flex wrote: »

[*]Enough soft drinks to fill a pint glass costs €5-6 (although recently Ive been charged €2.80 - €3 for a 113ml bottle)

A pint glass is 568ml so it would take 2.84x200ml bottles to fill it. Most dump in 2 bottles and a load of ice, which can be filthier than the water in the toilet cistern.

dr.fuzzenstein

Help!!!! wrote: »

People need to shop around their local pubs to get good value
I have found 3 pubs so far where I can get value for my €
I can get Tuborg in one for €3.10, Tuborg in another for €3.50 & Becks Vier for €4 in another
Before people start saying its piss or whatever I like Tuborg & Becks Vier partly because I have IBS so Guinness is out of the question.

Those are some of the better ones. I live in Co Clare, not one single pub stocks these and if they did, no one would drink it. Bud and Heineken are undisputed kings here.

Help!!!!

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Those are some of the better ones. I live in Co Clare, not one single pub stocks these and if they did, no one would drink it. Bud and Heineken are undisputed kings here.

& how much for a Bud or Heineken?

dr.fuzzenstein

Help!!!! wrote: »

& how much for a Bud or Heineken?

I don't even know, I just know when you order wine and a pint in most pubs they still look for more money if you hand them a tenner.
So, too much, IMO. Hence me not going to pubs. Also, never order B or H, as it tastes like "Arsch und Friedrich" as we say in Germany (Ass and dick) or "Eingeschlafene Füße" (your foot's gone to sleep)
And even rural pubs are not far behind. You will not find a sub €4 pint here. Unless it's tap water.

Simon2015

Eutow wrote: »

I can never understand why Irish pubs don't have the dispenser to dispense soft drinks, coke, orange and red bull, like they do on the continent or North America.

Maybe because soft drinks taste much better from a can or bottle.

Coke tastes best from a glass bottle.

Drinks from those dispenser things taste horrible IMO.

hatrickpatrick

Would there be much support for a kickstarter campaign to take the government to court and eventually the ECJ over this when they introduce it? At the very least we'd be able to delay it until the Scottish ruling, which isn't due for at least another year.

The D'OB farce over the last week has shown that it's time we stopped relying on anyone to get us out of these ridiculous situations. The media won't help, most of the powerful voices are bought and paid for, our representatives are bought and paid for - it's up to us to make a difference.

As I understand it, and I'm intending to do more research over the next few days, the process essentially involves taking a case to the high court in Ireland asking for an injunction against the bill until the ECJ has issued a ruling. In Scotland, it was ruled legal by a lower court in accordance with Scottish law, but then referred by an appeals court to the ECJ for clarification on whether it's legal under EU law. Many have expressed the opinion that the ECJ is likely to rule against it.

What are people's thoughts on this? If I were to research this and ascertain (roughly) how much such a legal campaign would cost, do you think people would be willing to chip in despite the fact that we can't be certain such an attempt would succeed?

Beefy78

Simon2015 wrote: »

Maybe because soft drinks taste much better from a can or bottle.

Coke tastes best from a glass bottle.

Drinks from those dispenser things taste horrible IMO.

I think as a mixer it doesn't make too much difference. Most pubs in the UK offer bottles and the dispenser anyway so if you want the bottle then that's your choice.

Help!!!!

Simon2015 wrote: »

Maybe because soft drinks taste much better from a can or bottle.

Coke tastes best from a glass bottle.

Drinks from those dispenser things taste horrible IMO.

That's because they are usually a syrup mixed with carbonated water. Usually costing a pub 30p per pint ( or less )

Help!!!!

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Would there be much support for a kickstarter campaign to take the government to court and eventually the ECJ over this when they introduce it? At the very least we'd be able to delay it until the Scottish ruling, which isn't due for at least another year.

The D'OB farce over the last week has shown that it's time we stopped relying on anyone to get us out of these ridiculous situations. The media won't help, most of the powerful voices are bought and paid for, our representatives are bought and paid for - it's up to us to make a difference.

As I understand it, and I'm intending to do more research over the next few days, the process essentially involves taking a case to the high court in Ireland asking for an injunction against the bill until the ECJ has issued a ruling. In Scotland, it was ruled legal by a lower court in accordance with Scottish law, but then referred by an appeals court to the ECJ for clarification on whether it's legal under EU law. Many have expressed the opinion that the ECJ is likely to rule against it.

What are people's thoughts on this? If I were to research this and ascertain (roughly) how much such a legal campaign would cost, do you think people would be willing to chip in despite the fact that we can't be certain such an attempt would succeed?

To be honest I cant see them going ahead with it now. Not with the protest about IW & whats happening with DOB.

Sofiztikated

Eutow wrote: »

I can never understand why Irish pubs don't have the dispenser to dispense soft drinks, coke, orange and red bull, like they do on the continent or North America. Buying those small bottles costs more because of the glass, and because you can't buy them anywhere besides a small number of suppliers.

I worked for a wholesaler briefly and they could buy a case of coke (cans) (24 in a case) for E4.56. Now obviously as a wholesaler they maybe are buying more bulk, so can get a better discount, but even still, a pub that negotiates well could get a price that isn't a lot more. Pubs don't seem to be good at negotiating or sourcing different suppliers. If pubs were to use a dispenser instead of bottles, they could buy cases of coke and pour it into the dispenser.

Yeah, they don't work like that.

Premix syrup canister, and gas. All sealed.

The main reason it's not in pubs is because it's hard to change people's expectations. That and the expense. Few suppliers, and as far as I can remember, they won't supply it to non restaurant based pubs in the Republic.

Lyaiera

It's €2 for a can of coke in my local. Which I'm delighted with, because sometimes I can't drink beer with my stomach. I was in there last night, had a coke, stayed and chatted, was happy out. They got in bottles of coke a few months ago and I gave out to the owner, who was apologetic as he said he had to get an emergency supply and that's all they had. €2 a can is grand, and they often offer specials where you can get two shorts and the can is free, so half a can per glass of short.

hatrickpatrick

Help!!!! wrote: »

To be honest I cant see them going ahead with it now. Not with the protest about IW & whats happening with DOB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onhFH7jpq2c

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Those are some of the better ones. I live in Co Clare, not one single pub stocks these and if they did, no one would drink it. Bud and Heineken are undisputed kings here.

Sounds like hell.

hatrickpatrick

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Sounds like hell.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/62756053.jpg

syklops

Lyaiera wrote: »

It's €2 for a can of coke in my local. Which I'm delighted with, because sometimes I can't drink beer with my stomach. I was in there last night, had a coke, stayed and chatted, was happy out. They got in bottles of coke a few months ago and I gave out to the owner, who was apologetic as he said he had to get an emergency supply and that's all they had. €2 a can is grand, and they often offer specials where you can get two shorts and the can is free, so half a can per glass of short.

Considering a can of coke wholesale is about 20 cents, to be honest, 2 euros is not grand.