The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Nollog

BattleCorp wrote: »

Where does the new tax go then?

I don't think it's a tax, its a new regulation that says the final price of a drink has to be x euro or more.

BattleCorp

/\/ollog wrote: »

I don't think it's a tax, its a new regulation that says the final price of a drink has to be x euro or more.

Do you think that the Government will let the Supermarkets pocket the difference between the old price and the new price? I doubt it.

BobMc

I first read this thread back in february this year, and as someone had mentioned homebrew, I said I'd try that, done 9 brews since and not bought one beer for myself since.

Me personally if a pint is anymore expensive than it is I'll be frequenting the pub even less than my two/three times a year as in probably going not at all.

listermint

BobMc wrote: »

I first read this thread back in february this year, and as someone had mentioned homebrew, I said I'd try that, done 9 brews since and not bought one beer for myself since.

Me personally if a pint is anymore expensive than it is I'll be frequenting the pub even less than my two/three times a year as in probably going not at all.

This will backlash on the industry.

Nothing more.


Its idiotic and does nothing to solve any of the social issues surrounding consumption. No doubt the VFI have their sights on Killing Wetherspoons before it starts to take hold.

VFI bunch of charlatans

Tabnabs

BattleCorp wrote: »

Do you think that the Government will let the Supermarkets pocket the difference between the old price and the new price? I doubt it.

This is the question. It's not a tax being applied by the State, it's a directive to suppliers to sell at a set unit price. That would suggest that your Supervalu's, Musgraves etc. must sell to the customer at a minimum rate and therefore pocket the additional revenue themselves. The theory is that the State will save on health costs by fewer alcohol related treatments.

hatrickpatrick

listermint wrote: »

This will backlash on the industry.

Nothing more.


Its idiotic and does nothing to solve any of the social issues surrounding consumption. No doubt the VFI have their sights on Killing Wetherspoons before it starts to take hold.

VFI bunch of charlatans

If anything this will help the Spooner. Instead of having predrinks and heading to the pub, people will just head to Wetherspoons where a pint is only slightly more expensive than a can (€2.50 in Dun Laoghaire) and end up staying there for the night.

BattleCorp

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If anything this will help the Spooner. Instead of having predrinks and heading to the pub, people will just head to Wetherspoons where a pint is only slightly more expensive than a can (€2.50 in Dun Laoghaire) and end up staying there for the night.

That will affect maybe 1% or less of the population. 99% of people don't live anywhere near a Wetherspoons. But yes, it might help Spooners.

2smiggy

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If anything this will help the Spooner. Instead of having predrinks and heading to the pub, people will just head to Wetherspoons where a pint is only slightly more expensive than a can (€2.50 in Dun Laoghaire) and end up staying there for the night.

too true, if the unit price is €1 , then €2.60 for a pint of 4.5 % beer or cider will be the minimum price.

it really kills off any value of a box of beer. Where as I used to buy the 20 box of bottles of stella for €12 or so , now the minimum price will be €32.

This will not affect there own drinking habits, because chances are the politicians bottles of wine cost far more than €7-8 euros in the first place. It just puts pressure on the people who found it hard to afford drink in the first place, not alcoholics/problem drinkers.

KwackerJack

Gob****es dressed like royalty who do not actually have 2c to rub together because they have spent all there money on ridiculous looking clothes and overpriced drinks just because they need to be seen in a pub that is for some reason classed as 'posh'


No thanks, I like going to my quiet local for a pint and a chat with the lads beside on open fire. I do like my clubs but after the Swords venue especially but to name a few I've lost faith in Irish clubs, they either stand there afraid to crease there shirts or its full of kids dressed like hookers!

Spirit on middle abbey street was a good spot, OK was rough at times but it was all about the music, I miss that time in Irish History. Its all about how well you dress and what you drink.

The whole have a beer be a man ****e wrecks my head, if I wanted a beer I wouldn't have asked for a Rum Or Bourbon would I NO, so piss off and go drink your pisswazzer by yourself!

So in other words pubs, clubs and fancy cafe's have turned in overpriced look at me venues!

There goes good auld Ireland!

Geuze

BattleCorp wrote: »

All it will do is increase the amount of tax that the government take in from alcohol sales.

The proposal is not a new tax.

The excise tax on alcohol is a separate issue, nothing directly to do with this proposal.

The proposal is a price control, not a tax.

Geuze

BattleCorp wrote: »

Do you think that the Government will let the Supermarkets pocket the difference between the old price and the new price? I doubt it.

Other than a rise in VAT as the price rises, yes, the higher price will be kept by the brewer/supplier and the retailer.

Geuze

BattleCorp wrote: »

That will affect maybe 1% or less of the population. 99% of people don't live anywhere near a Wetherspoons. But yes, it might help Spooners.

There are 4 JDW pubs in county Dublin, and 1 in Cork city.

Two more are due to open in Dublin city centre, another in Waterford city, another in Carlow town, and one in Douglas, Cork suburbs.

By that time, I guess that 1m people will live within 10km of a JDW??

Lights On

500ml can of 4.3% beer will be €1.95. Wine €8.63

Edit: That's €48 for a slab. A fair and honest price if you ask me :rolleyes:

listermint

This is just clearance across the board for Brands to distance themselves further on price.

No one will want to be beside the cheaper end of the market. this raising prices for all.


Vradkar is an absolutely abysmal minister

Lights On

"I would hope majority of population will see enormous benefit of this legislation to themselves and wider society"

Leo is some man all the same, looking out for the people!

jackofalltrades

Great to see the government pushing ahead with this, especially in the face of a likely ruling against Scotland.
They're setting themselves up for a bloody nose and I hope they get it.
And as an added bonus it'll annoy the Publicans as well.

I can't say this has all been bad though.
It finally gave me the push needed to get back into homebrewing.
I've made beer, wine and cider so far.
All equipment is long since paid for and I have a shed full of tasty beer/wine costing 75 cent and €2.10 respectively.
No more drinking cheap supermarket crap or paying a fortune for craft beer.
Would highly recommend it to anyone thinking of trying it.

smash

Lights On wrote: »

"I would hope majority of population will see enormous benefit of this legislation to themselves and wider society"

Leo is some man all the same, looking out for the people!

Except there's literally no benefit at all.

BattleCorp

Lights On wrote: »

"I would hope majority of population will see enormous benefit of this legislation to themselves and wider society"

Leo is some man all the same, looking out for the people!

Carcasm?

I'm not very good at this game.

Geuze

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Great to see the government pushing ahead with this, especially in the face of a likely ruling against Scotland.
They're setting themselves up for a bloody nose and I hope they get it.
And as an added bonus it'll annoy the Publicans as well.

Publicans favour these price controls, as off-trade alcohol will become dearer.

Flex

Ive read two sets of figures, one saying the price will be 10c per gram of alcohol, and another saying a 4.3% 500ml can of beer will be €1.95, which doesnt make sense. a 500ml can of 4.3% beer has 21.5ml of alcohol, which is roughly 17 grams of alcohol, so at 10c a gram it would mean a minimum price of €1.68.

Anyway, read the below here http://www.thejournal.ie/alcohol-pricing-advertising-announced-2491642-Dec2015/ ...

• A 750ml bottle of wine at 11.5% strength is set to cost €8.63, which works out at €1.15 for a 100ml glass
• A pint of beer at 4.3% strength will have a minimum price of €2.44
• A 700ml bottle of 40% strength vodka will cost €28
• A 300ml can of beer at 4.3% strength will cost €1.29 – which works out at €30.96 for a slab of 24 cans
• A litre bottle of cider at 4.3% strength will cost €4.30
• A two litre bottle of cider at 7% strength will cost €14

This is considerably more than the €1.95 mentioned above. It would mean a 500ml can of 4.3% beer (think Guiness, Heineken, etc. are around that) would cost €2.14, and a slab would be €51.55. Could someone confirm that? Being very fond of Jameson myself Im going to miss being able to get it on promotions for sub €28

seamus

brevity wrote: »

Any idea how quickly this will be implemented? Do I need to stockpile a few boxes of Heineken?

There are two chances of this being implemented in the remaining life of this government. Quickest way to alienate an electorate is to hit them in the pocket. This bill will be introduced and we won't hear anything else about it until sometime next Summer.

On the actual topic though - are there any examples anywhere in the world of minimum or fixed pricing for alcohol leading to an improvement in public health?

Or even any analogues for this measure that can show there is a basis in logic for it?

Odyssey 2005

Flex wrote: »

Ive read two sets of figures, one saying the price will be 10c per gram of alcohol, and another saying a 4.3% 500ml can of beer will be €1.95, which doesnt make sense. a 500ml can of 4.3% beer has 21.5ml of alcohol, which is roughly 17 grams of alcohol, so at 10c a gram it would mean a minimum price of €1.68.

Anyway, read the below here http://www.thejournal.ie/alcohol-pricing-advertising-announced-2491642-Dec2015/ ...



This is considerably more than the €1.95 mentioned above. It would mean a 500ml can of 4.3% beer (think Guiness, Heineken, etc. are around that) would cost €2.14, and a slab would be €51.55. Could someone confirm that? Being very fond of Jameson myself Im going to miss being able to get it on promotions for sub €28

At these prices it would be worth travelling to the north,even with the sterling differential. Well done Leo the Traitor

VinLieger

Just went looking and it seems the preliminary judgement by the EUCJ in september was it aint gonna happen and they think it should be done through taxation...... yeah cus thats been an equally roaring success these last 20 years

Odyssey 2005

This is going to give the black market in stroked beer/wine a huge boost

Flex

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

At these prices it would be worth travelling to the north,even with the sterling differential. Well done Leo the Traitor

Indeed. My hope is that preliminary reports are confusing the costs; theyre taking the minimum per mg but applying it to the ml of alcohol in a drink. Otherwise the price is being set incredibly high...

2smiggy

Flex wrote: »

Indeed. My hope is that preliminary reports are confusing the costs; theyre taking the minimum per mg but applying it to the ml of alcohol in a drink. Otherwise the price is being set incredibly high...

especially for the 2 litre bottle of strong cider !!!!

Madd Finn

Lux23 wrote: »

Is that really true? Smokers are a dying breed (in more ways than one). I think the price of a packet of smokes now would definitely hinder young people from starting.

Are you sure it's just the price? There are umpteen good reasons not to start smoking. One of them being the number of existing smokers who are trying to quit or are at least promising to do so.

Successful attempts to influence behaviour by taxation are usually found when people have no big objection to observing the desired behaviour in the first place. Case in point: the plastic bag tax. A modicum of a charge almost instantaneously encouraged people to start bringing shopping bags to the supermarket. How hard was that?

But in this case we are trying to hurt people for doing something they enjoy. And we are hurting the moderate drinkers as much as the bingers, if not more. And as has been said, and will be said and SHOULD be said: It won't work! It isn't working. We already have the highest or second highest price for alcohol in the EU depending on what type you're buying. And that's from WHO statistics.

Crazy.

the groutch

All this will do is lead to everyone flocking up north again for their cheap booze, taking millions of euro out of the economy.

gimmick

Yup. May as well introduce a new volstead act. Minimum prices are still a fraction of the price of going tot he pub.

But I would imagine it will still be cheaper to drive to Newry from Cork to stock up. Joke of a country.

jack presley

the groutch wrote: »

All this will do is lead to everyone flocking up north again for their cheap booze, taking millions of euro out of the economy.

Minimum pricing is planned for the north too apparently and ours isn't coming into play until there's does.