The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

mariaalice

It wont stop alcoholism, but it will by virtue of being more expensive lower the amount normal drinker drink and that is a good thing from a health point of view, going out to get hammered is not normal and that mindset had to change.

yoyo

Letree wrote: »

If it has no effect in consumption then why are the alcohol companies against it. They must feel threatened by it. The Scottish Whiskey Association fight very hard against the introduction in Scotland.

You'll find the likes of Diageo and co are for it, why wouldn't they love the extra revenue flow. It's the small independent producers which are not.
If there's anything the government should be tackling, a far more unhealthy addiction that is gambling.

Nick

Capt'n Midnight

BattleCorp wrote: »

All it will do is increase the amount of tax that the government take in from alcohol sales.

For the Nth time

If successful this will reduce the amount of excise duty collected, which means taxes will have to be raised elsewhere to compensate.

Since there is VAT on most things the take could only go up if people start spending less on food.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Where does the new tax go then?

It's not a new tax. The money goes into the pockets of the supermarkets and distributors. Pubs already charge over the minimum so they won't get more, actually they'll probably get less since people who occasionally drink at home would presumably have less disposable income.

Letree

listermint wrote: »

Leo seriously will you go off and read all of the international studies.

Equally while your at it examine the stats on consumption for Ireland its been falling since 2001 we aren't even in the top three.

You need a reality check

Its not a big deal to me. Post some studies if you think they are of much use to people reading this thread.

dr.fuzzenstein

mariaalice wrote: »

It wont stop alcoholism, but it will by virtue of being more expensive lower the amount normal drinker drink and that is a good thing from a health point of view, going out to get hammered is not normal and that mindset had to change.

Do you really think the people who drink 5 beers at home and ten pints with shots in the pub will drink less? Get real.

oppenheimer1

VinLieger wrote: »

Alcohol prices have risen steadily to be the 3rd most expensive in europe after consecutive budgets over the last 20-30 years and we have not seen any reduction in alcohol consumption or alcohol related social and health issues, in fact we have only seen increases in everything. Therefore prices do not affect consumption in this specific case.

People have gotten wealthier also. Relative to peoples wages we are close to a low absolute point in terms of the price of alcohol (in the off trade) vs the purchasing power of the average income.

mariaalice

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Do you really think the people who drink 5 beers at home and ten pints with shots in the pub will drink less? Get real.

It is designed to prevent people having the money to drink like that, there should be a review after a year to see what the impact is.

listermint

In comes the spokes people.


I hope the EU makes a laugh out of yer nonsense becasue that is exactly what it is

ziggyman17

so the ordinary person ( like myself) gets punished again.. My wife and I like to share a couple of bottles of wine on the weekend and I like a couple of bottles of beer.. So now we will be hit in the pocket, because some Idiot is on some sort of moral crusade.. This going on at the same time some other crusader wants to introduce safe haven drug dens... This will backfire on the current government...

listermint

mariaalice wrote: »

It wont stop alcoholism, but it will by virtue of being more expensive lower the amount normal drinker drink and that is a good thing from a health point of view, going out to get hammered is not normal and that mindset had to change.

Letree wrote: »

Its not a big deal to me. Post some studies if you think they are of much use to people reading this thread.

mariaalice wrote: »

It is designed to prevent people having the money to drink like that, there should be a review after a year to see what the impact is.

Beat your heads with stats there .

http://alcoholireland.ie/home_news/how-much-are-we-really-drinking/

Whilst the nation is getting wealthier the consumption is reducing weird that... It must hurt that it conflicts with your personal opinions that have no basis in fact

end of the road

Letree wrote: »

If it has no effect in consumption then why are the alcohol companies against it. They must feel threatened by it. The Scottish Whiskey Association fight very hard against the introduction in Scotland.

yes of course they do as they fear it may damage their business as people buy cheeper alternatives or import. rightly so. the business brings in large amounts of money into the local economies and keeps people in jobs. minimum pricing was tried, it failed, it will not be different this time because "shur tis ireland begorra" . only in ireland would someone look to implement, and support, something that has been tried and failed. we never learn

mariaalice wrote: »

It wont stop alcoholism, but it will by virtue of being more expensive lower the amount normal drinker drink and that is a good thing from a health point of view, going out to get hammered is not normal and that mindset had to change.

it won't be changed by the failed concept of minimum pricing which has been tried and failed spectacularly. i couldn't care a less about a health point of view, this failed concept won't reduce anything. fail, fail, failed.

VinLieger

mariaalice wrote: »

It is designed to prevent people having the money to drink like that, there should be a review after a year to see what the impact is.

I should be able to drink however the hell I want without government interference "designed" to stop me doing something that is perfectly legal

Glenbhoy

jack presley wrote: »

Minimum pricing is planned for the north too apparently and ours isn't coming into play until there's does.

And how's that going to work with our different currencies exactly?

Not to mention a Brexit!!

Vowel Movement

What about us brain-dead slobs?

You'll be given cushy jobs.

hatrickpatrick

Letree wrote: »

If it has no effect in consumption then why are the alcohol companies against it. They must feel threatened by it. The Scottish Whiskey Association fight very hard against the introduction in Scotland.

Actually it's because it prevents them from competing with eachother.

flynnlives

You get the gov. you deserve!

Here is a thought? maybe stop voting for the local publican who wants to drive ye back into his pub or the local auctioneer who rezones land in flood plains and is unhappy with rent controls.

Irish people, please research your local gombeen before you vote!

gaius c

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Actually it's because it prevents them from competing with eachother.

Big time. Not worth your while producing semi-drinkable and lower ABV beers like Smithwicks and Tuborg if you have to increase the price just to comply with an idiotic law.

CollyFlower

****ing Gobsh1tes, they'll always find a way to slap a tax onto something /anything..... We should all arrange marches/protests and take to the streets..... Even if you were to go north to stock up the cost of traveling would wipe out the savings!

gaius c

Lights On wrote: »

Next summer was when Leo said he was hoping it would come into play afaik. Right in time for Euro 16!

I was commenting on the timing of the announcement.

TallGlass

Tell you what, how about they get rid of the bar in the Dail first and then we might start taking them seriously.

hatrickpatrick

gaius c wrote: »

Big time. Not worth your while producing semi-drinkable and lower ABV beers like Smithwicks and Tuborg if you have to increase the price just to comply with an idiotic law.

The Scotch Whisky Association's main argument in Scotland is also that it prevents domestic brands from competing with foreign ones, seeing as they can sell their product more cheaply locally due to lack of transport costs etc. So a Scottish made bottle of spirits will cost the same as one made in France, even though the local one should be cheaper because it didn't cost as much to ship.

Madd Finn

Have a look at this scene from one of the film versions of The Great Gatsby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgcuBOVMGsg

Now bear in mind: this is set in 1920s America during the era of Prohibition. And it's probably the case that everybody in this scene (which is a fair representation of the sort of parties the rich could hold in boom-time pre Wall St Crash 1920s America) was behaving completely legally.

The Volstead Act (Prohibition) banned the manufacture, sale and transportation of Alcohol but NOT its consumption. So the super wealthy merely stocked up in huge quantities in advance, or at least did so in sufficient quantities that they could convince the IRS that everything they had was purchased BEFORE prohibition even if they had to top it up with a few dozen crates of illegally smuggled booze in the interim.

The rich could afford to get away with it; the poor had to deal with the crooks in the local speakeasy.

There are parallels to what will happen here. Are the people in lower income groups suddenly going to come over all abstemious because the government has decided they are ALL too flush with cash to be responsible drinkers?

Hell no!!!

They will be amply supplied with booze that is at best "grey market" ie brought over from Europe in large quantities for "personal consumption" by organised gangs and sold in dodgy shebeens or speakeasies.

The very wealthy will hardly be troubled at all. A more refined atmosphere while out choosing one's vintage Chateau La Tour with rather less riff raff clogging up the off licence.

The people in the middle will probably with great reluctance forego having some vin ordinaire or a can of beer with their evening meal as frequently as before but will probably not be perturbed from going out for a skinful with their mates every now and again.

So this measure is likely to
a) criminalise the poor
b) enrich the off license and vintner trades
c) discourage sensible drinking while doing little to curb binge drinking
d) piss off the middle class
e) hardly affect the top dogs at all.

Well done Leo. You've gone from unsung hero of the Marriage Equality Referendum to prize chump in just over six months.

Frank Grimes

mariaalice wrote: »

It is designed to prevent people having the money to drink like that, there should be a review after a year to see what the impact is.

It's not though, nor will it achieve that. In that hypothetical scenario, if someone can afford to go out and drink 10 pints plus shots the few euro extra it'll cost them to drink those 5 beers at home is in no way going to curtail their drinking. Pub prices (I'm open to correction if I'm mistaken here) won't be affected because they're already over the minimum prices proposed.

Neamhshuntasach

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hasn't this been proven not to lower consumption rates? People just forego other things to get their regular amount of booze in.

I imagine this will impact particularly on people at the lower end of the income scale. It's a funny little country though isn't it, the solution to every problem is to tax the hell out of it and more and more government interference in business and peoples personal lives.

I'm getting very tired of being here tbh.

People will forego their Irish Water bills to go scooping.

Neamhshuntasach

tayto lover wrote: »

1. An alcoholic will drink the same amount and forgo any food to do so.
2. Law and order issues will remain the same. Young people will drink as much and do without other things to "enjoy" themselves.

No decrease in crime or medical issues at all.
Drinking has not decreased anytime alcohol prices have risen.

Exactly. If i was young and stupid again my attitude would be to get 'locked' on a night out. If I was heading to a house before going out and I'd probably consider some vodka instead of the beer as i'd see it as getting me more drunk for my money spent. This minimum pricing will do nothing to cut down on law and order issues.

Neamhshuntasach

Letree wrote: »

I agree, that will result in an overall reduction.

In people who don't need a reduction.

the_syco

Letree wrote: »

If it has no effect in consumption then why are the alcohol companies against it.

Because less people will be able to buy their booze.

mariaalice wrote: »

It is designed to prevent people having the money to drink like that, there should be a review after a year to see what the impact is.

There won't be a review. There'll just be another increase. Like there has been nearly every year so far.

captbarnacles

If kids cannot afford as much as alcohol they will drink faster to get the same effect so this will definitely all end well.

darkpagandeath

Jesus this is like the MCT all over again, The arrogance of this government and its pushing forward having not even waited for the Scottish case. To me is just more electioneering kinda win win with the publicans as the Gubbermint can blame Europe When the Scottish case is shot down.

Capt'n Midnight

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

People have gotten wealthier also. Relative to peoples wages we are close to a low absolute point in terms of the price of alcohol (in the off trade) vs the purchasing power of the average income.

Good point. However the Guinness Index completely debunks that for pub prices.
In 1973 the average wage was 159 pints, in 2013 it was 155 pints.
It hasn't changed all that much in the last 40 years.
http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm

The excise rate has changed and it's a smaller part of the price of a pub pint than it was in the past.

The answer is simple, if we need drink to be made more expensive then just bring excise rates back to historic levels.