RA problem tenant - advice please

BostonB

bertie1 wrote: »

When you get them out pursue them through the Prtb http://www.prtb.ie/
Take plenty of photos, & keep copies of all documentation & receipts for all work done to reinstate the house to the condition it was in when they moved in. I had a similar incident & the ex tenant is now obliged through the court to pay off the arrears as well as damage to the house . She is now paying . Assuming you have registered the tenancy of course. They can be traced by their PPS number

How long did it take to get them out and get the PRTB decision?

bertie1

6 months from the time the tenant was out to the hearing, another 6 months to get the decision from the hearing , tenant appealed & lost , so 22 months after the tentant left , with arrears & damage done to the house ,she has now started paying off the outstanding judgement against her.

BostonB

did the tenant leave voluntarily?

curadh

Just want to update, looks like this is going to be a lot of hassle.

The tenants personally took the 28day notice last week and I explained it fully to them.
They rang me today to say that they want their deposit back and have nowhere else to go unless they get the deposit.
There was never a deposit paid. They are claiming I took cash from them and that they have a receipt written out by me.
So it looks like unless I give THEM money, they are going to get to stay in the place rent free while I chase them through the prtb, with the risk of nothing at the end.
I am seriously considering taking the fall here and paying them to get out, seeing as I have no rights once the notice has been served. What the **** does the prtb have to do with landlord rights I honestly believe having them govern a landlord tenant relationship is pure rubbish seeing as they prolong the pain for the landlord. If a tenant breaks the law surely it should be the garda siochana involved not some useless paper pushing shower of officious idiots.

Kosseegan

You should ask to be introduced to their new landlord and pay him/her the deposit, after they have handed the keys back to you.

BostonB

curadh wrote: »

...
I am seriously considering taking the fall here and paying them to get out, seeing as I have no rights once the notice has been served....

Its a gamble. You could pay them and they still don't get out.

bertie1 wrote: »

...so 22 months after the tentant left , with arrears & damage done to the house ....

2yrs. Wow.

Penguino

Tough situation, what they are doing now is fraud so it is a whole different ballgame.

Hate to suggest it but maybe you should take the law into your own hands

I agree with the lack of success of the PRTB, there should be a central database where bad tenants get listed so that in future other landlords don't get caught

ricman

SO if you pay the deposit ,theres no gaurantee the tenant will leave.
the tenant is supposed to have a rent book by law ,that lists the rent paid ,plus the deposit paid.IN most cases the welfare office pays most of the deposit,which the tenant gives to the landlord, if the tenant is on rent allowance.
Well in cases of ra, its very important to get a deposit, at least 800 euro, if the tenant cant give a deposit, before moving in ,dont take him on.Theres only one legal way to remove a tenant, give notice,write letters etc go to the courts.
This takes time,meanwhile you have no rental income.I,D SAY ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE you have full house insurance, the insurance company knows you have a tenant.AS some tenants have been known to damage a house before leaving.And leave the water on ,just of of spite.
the welfare officer should know that the tenant paid no deposit,but they are not supposed to give you any personal info,under the data protection act.
if the tenant leaves they,ll tell you if you ask them,
as they need to know if theres someone living there on rent allowance.
SO under irish law theres no easy quick,solution if a tenant stops paying rent,
most landlords i know wont take ra unless they get 900 euro deposit,and then they,ll take a single mother with one child.
Keep a written record of everything you do, copys of all notes,letters etc as you may need it for a court appearance,if paying a deposit,pay by check, postal order, in the tenants name.take A PHOTO of the check.

If you inform the welfare officer , the windows are broken,no rent is being paid ,She has the power to tell the tenant to leave,at the end of the day the tenant relies on the welfare officer for fuel allowance etc
the tenant will not stay there without the support of the welfare officer.

curadh

Thanks Ricman, so should I contact the local welfare office and let them know whats happening? I will say anytime Ive tried in the past Ive been treated badly as if I am a nuisance and have no place being there.:mad:

Graces7

Sad at some of the posts here. yes, wrong to specify "rent allowance" tenant in the header as many others have said.

So many differing facts also.. We were on RA in two tenancies in a different county. We had only a short wait. We moved in August after threats of illegal eviction. To a different county. A decent landlord and no problem with RA from him. However, we are still not getting RA because of the length of time taken by the local authority housing need assessment. And life this winter has been thus very hard indeed.

But the rent is always paid somehow. Period. As others here have also said. Yesterday as the pension payment is help up by some computer issue, I had to count every penny we had to pay that rent. No way would we fall behind on that. Rent first; food later.

The poster who speaks of luxuries has no idea how others live. Luxury is a roof over our heads and enough food for the week. Sometimes it seems people who are poor are judged by that. Ah well, old age comes to us all...

BostonB

Personally I think theres a world of a difference between someone who keeps in touch with a landlord about payments issues, looks after a place well, and pays the rent, or even pays some or most of the rent. Also someone who answers the phone and door etc.

ricman

The welfare officer is not paid to deal with landlords, its not their job.
BUT if you tell them , I RECIEVE NO RENT, I DID not get a deposit ,they will likely get stop ra payments,you can also go to social welfare office ,say i intend evicting the tenant, please be wary of anyone signing on from this adress in the near future.
While the tenant is getting ra payments, and paying no rent, he s unlikely to leave ..
but stopping ra payments ,may anger the tenant, as i said theres no easy quick solution here.
ALL the welfare officer can do, is stop ra payments, or tell the tenant to leave,find new accomodation, if the tenant leaves,she can tell you ,tenant has moved out,
thats all the info she is allowed to give to you ,under irish data protection law.
when dealing with tenants ,the first interview is crucial,and get a large deposit
in advance, otherwise you will be ripped off.,
and recieve no rent.
IF you dont like the system, we have,simple
do not take on ra tenants.
i know 1 landlord, he got over 70k,rent from 1 tenant, single mother 1child
over 7 years ,so it works for some people.

under the ra system its easy for the tenant to stop paying rent, but theres plenty of
private tenants who stop paying rent, and under irish law it can take a long time to evict
a non paying tenant.Thats life, x amount of people are crinimal ,dishonest and commit fraud.
Look at the bankers,retiring with million pound pensions, after destroying the economy.

BostonB

Even if you do everything correctly you can still be ripped off by people who know how to work the system.

the_syco

curadh wrote: »

They rang me today to say that they want their deposit back and have nowhere else to go unless they get the deposit.
There was never a deposit paid. They are claiming I took cash from them and that they have a receipt written out by me.
So it looks like unless I give THEM money

Give them a post-dated cheque saying that unless they get out by X date, you'll cancel the cheque.

If they don't move out; cancel the cheque.

If they do move out; cancel the cheque anyhoos. F**k 'em.

Blackjack

Graces7 wrote: »

wrong to specify "rent allowance" tenant in the header as many others have said.

No, it isnt.

Taxpayers money funds the rent allowance - if Taxpayers money is being spent to support hooligans wrecking someone elses property, then we have a right to know about it.

Graces7

Blackjack wrote: »

No, it isnt.

Taxpayers money funds the rent allowance - if Taxpayers money is being spent to support hooligans wrecking someone elses property, then we have a right to know about it.

There you go again.. Nasty is that.

NB when money is given it then belongs to the one it is given to. And NB also ...if you don't like the system here, maybe relocate

Blackjack

Graces7 wrote: »

There you go again.. Nasty is that.

NB when money is given it then belongs to the one it is given to. And NB also ...if you don't like the system here, maybe relocate

Nothing Nasty about it - stop pretending to be a victim all the time.

When money is handed out for free, I take issue.

Graces7

Blackjack wrote: »

Nothing Nasty about it - stop pretending to be a victim all the time.

When money is handed out for free, I take issue.

No victim here; simply a pensioner with every right in law to claim RA. As are many others.

Why take issue? This is how the country is run. As I said, leave if that irks you. As we also get free medical care and solid fuel etc etc etc. Do you grudge that too?

This is 2011 not the "good old days" when the old and sick died by the roadside. Heaven forbid we should have money for food etc. Get real, please. Grow up; money is only worth what it can buy.

Blackjack

Graces7 wrote: »

No victim here; simply a pensioner with every right in law to claim RA. As are many others.

Why take issue? This is how the country is run. As I said, leave if that irks you. As we also get free medical care and solid fuel etc etc etc. Do you grudge that too?

This is 2011 not the "good old days" when the old and sick died by the roadside. Heaven forbid we should have money for food etc. Get real, please. Grow up; money is only worth what it can buy.

You've clearly only selectively read from this thread, ignoring the OPs issue.

Whats' happened is 2 scumbags have moved in (who claim Rent Allowance) and are wrecking his house. They are now looking to blackmail him so that he pays them to move out.

I think its yourself who needs to grow up if you think that paying the rent of these people is an appropriate use of taxpayers money.

Blackjack

As for Relocating - if all of us who have issue moved, who do you think would pay the taxes?

the_syco

Graces7 wrote: »

NB when money is given it then belongs to the one it is given to. And NB also ...if you don't like the system here, maybe relocate

No. The money is given to the RA tenant, to give to the landlord. The RA tenant is simply a middle man between the state and the landlord. In this instance, the RA tenant is pocketing the cash. It is because people like them, that EVERY RA tenant is seen possible scum, and it is because of RA tenants like the ones in the OP's house that more checks are needed before you can get any money.

Graces7

senordingdong wrote: »

Well if that's the case, then the people I was referring to, should already have their Ra sorted, so they have no excuse to turn up empty handed on the first day of their new lease.

Furthermore, and this just out of curiosity, it also says that you have to be able to prove you could afford the rent at the beginning of your tenancy. If someone is starting a new tenancy in this situation, then surely they don't meet the criteria.

Hmmm... rent allowance can take months to come through and you have to be renting at your address to get it.

it is the system that needs changing; we have been waiting since August last year now. Still in the pipeline

Leaves about E10 a week after rent is paid for food and fuel etc. Thankfully the solid fuel allowance came in but...

Graces7

Fran79 wrote: »

In most cases I believe it is both, but if you are moving into a new property then just being assessed by the local housing section as having a need is sufficient.

And that takes weeks... They say here "6-8 weeks" for that alone. It has been longer than than already,

Graces7

Doom wrote: »

Wrong....I was willing to consider RA when I was letting out my house, when they rang, I said I would take their details and get back to them. At least 90% of RA calls hung up phone before I even finished the call! Most are leeches, and will always be leeches.

Another guy I know, his RA tenant starting making demands for rooms to be painted different colours and wanted more furniture, and this house was very nice anyway...they always seem to be the ones who make unreasonable demands and cause most problems to LL..imo

Interesting. we had one house that had one bedroom solid dayglo pink and the other a similarly garish turquoise so we asked for a repaint before we took it.

That is not unreasonable.

RA tenants do have exactly the same rights as all tenants. heating that works etc etc. We get treated as second best by so many.

Usually we repaint and ask for the paint costs only which suits most LLs.

:rolleyes: re the part I have highlighted.

Graces7

senordingdong wrote: »

It is worthy of mention.

The state is paying for this apartment.
If these people had to pay their own way and consequences with money they had to earn, they may have behaved mroe civily.

Well OK; you tell me how a person with severe disability and or/pensioner age, can earn money?

Sheesh; talk about discrimination. Many of us can only stay out of institutions because we get help with the rent. Care there cost a lot more than paying rent does.

And 'the state" decides these things and chooses this.

I suppose you would like to see the workhouses reopened?

Graces7

Blackjack wrote: »

You've clearly only selectively read from this thread, ignoring the OPs issue.

Whats' happened is 2 scumbags have moved in (who claim Rent Allowance) and are wrecking his house. They are now looking to blackmail him so that he pays them to move out.

I think its yourself who needs to grow up if you think that paying the rent of these people is an appropriate use of taxpayers money.

Interesting how you have suddenly gone back to ONE example after lambasting RA tenants in genera.. so we do make progress slowly; thank you.

The LL laid himself wide open by not demanding a deposit; that rule is there for a very good reason. Period; he has only himself to blame.

We have never and would never ask that and nor would anyone who is honest.

Telling someone of my advanced ago to "grow up" is hilarious; for the laugh, thank you.

Graces7

the_syco wrote: »

No. The money is given to the RA tenant, to give to the landlord. The RA tenant is simply a middle man between the state and the landlord. In this instance, the RA tenant is pocketing the cash. It is because people like them, that EVERY RA tenant is seen possible scum, and it is because of RA tenants like the ones in the OP's house that more checks are needed before you can get any money.

Have you seen the paperwork RA seekers have to fill out?

And it is only mindsets like yours ( interesting username of course) than see anyone as "possible scum" That shows so much.

Deeply thankful for good landlords who welcome RA tenants. Ours has no idea that we cannot eat or heat properly until RA comes in. Whatever else we miss out on, the rent is paid. So please do not tar all LLS with your brush.

This LL broke the safety rules, period.

BostonB

Times are hard, and many people (tenants and LL) are struggling. However if you can look past that for a minute and look at the process itself.

<rant>

The deposit isn't intended to cover rent but damage. Also if RA is paid one month in arrears, instead of in advance. If a tenant decided not to pay their rent, the LL is immediately down one month, rather just the rent from that date. So if you wanted to cover that RA tenants should really be asked for two months rent not one. Thats obviously a flawed system for RA tenants or LL in my opinion. RA should pay in advance same as other tenants IMO.

Then if a tenant needs RA, how are they going to cover the rent during the delay while the application is processed. That doesn't make any sense. I've seen it take 3 or 4 months to get processed. Why the tenant or LL should have to give the Govt a loan during this delay baffles me.

Not specific to RA tenants, but all tenants. If there is a problem, the LL has to wait maybe a year or more to get a non paying tenant out, Then pay for legal costs, loss in rent and maybe damage, change of locks, changing utilities. There should be some means of moving these tenants quickly. Perhaps into Nama properties.

Finally Deposits should be held by a third party, and nothing should be claimed for unless theres a receipt for it. Too many LL and tenants claim for imaginary things.

</rant>

As it the system/process is completely flawed. PRTB is irrelevant. Its just a tax.

Jaysoose

Graces7 wrote: »

Have you seen the paperwork RA seekers have to fill out?

And it is only mindsets like yours ( interesting username of course) than see anyone as "possible scum" That shows so much.

Deeply thankful for good landlords who welcome RA tenants. Ours has no idea that we cannot eat or heat properly until RA comes in. Whatever else we miss out on, the rent is paid. So please do not tar all LLS with your brush.

This LL broke the safety rules, period.

The poor things..they have to fill out their own forms!!! this is a disgrace.

ricman

if YOU take a tenant on without a large deposit, its almost an invitation to be defrauded, like someone going to the shop, leaving the keys in the ignition.I KNOW landlords that have ra tenants, they had no major problems,they screen them,interview them ,they are very careful.UNfortunately some landlord s are in negative equity, they,ll take on almost anyone to pay the mortgage.You have to be professional,take reasonable precautions .IN THE BOOM ,people just bought a house ,for capital apprecation ,no one thought of negative equity ,or the banks collapsing, and now they are stuck with houses they cant afford to sell.