would you allow 5yr old son dress as girl?

sensibleken

Putting make up on your five year old boy leads to a dangerous possibility that he might turn out to be a Goth.

Not worth the risk imo

we'llallhavetea_old

i think its pathetic that there's such a furore over this. the mother should be shot for shoving him in front of a camera and announcing "wuhoo, you're so different, freaky princess boy" when he's not different, he's a child that likes frilly clothing...

jackiebaron

gurramok wrote: »

When is that time? Should the boy decide at a certain age?

And what about the hundreds of thousands of girls who dress like boys, do they turn out to have psychological difficulties?

There is no time. A kid will decide what he wants to wear whenever. Usually he will want to wear similar clothes to his dad and his friends. I used to love wearing wellies coz my uncle on the farm wore them and they made me feel important...like I was in a position of great responsibility even though my tasks during my summers there were to collect the eggs and pour milk from a bucket into the calf-trough.

Girls will want to wear jeans if they see their mother wearing them. They will also want to wear jeans if they are a "daddy's girl" and he wears them. It's not rocket science.

And no, girls don't turn out to have psychological difficulties because they wear jeans. Remember all girls who wear jeans and trainers as little girls probably choose to wear them because they are comfy and they feel "equal" to boys and may even bash up one or two boys if they get the urge.
A boy will RARELY choose to wear a dress however and these parents that tart up these so called "princess boys" are dressing the kid the way THEY (the parents) want to see him....not what he himself wants.
And before you come out and say "many of these princess boys want to wear dresses", I might point out to you that these boys have picked up on the fact that they are treated with a lot more doting and spoiling by these moronic parents when they dress like a girl than if they were just clad in regular boy duds so they are bound to want to wear the dress in order to be fawned over. It's not healthy.

kowloon

jackiebaron wrote: »

A grown man in a dress doesn't really look attractive at all, now does he?

Speak for yourself, I look FABULOUS!

azezil

starbelgrade wrote: »

There is every possibility that a male kid who cross-dresses will be a homosexual adult.

The possibility of that isn't increased by the fact that he cross-dresses as a child

Correct

, but it is a possibility.

That sounds like you're contradicting what you just said.

jackiebaron

kowloon wrote: »

Speak for yourself, I look FABULOUS!

Pics or GTFO :P

fonecrusher1

Haha heres the fact of the matter...

If you had a little 4 or 5 year old son & he insisted in running around in dresses, you'd find it amusing for a week or 2.

After a prolonged length of time you'd be a bit stressed/worried & you'd probably start thinking of a plan to get him away from wanting feminine possessions.

C'mon don't bullsh!t yourselves. I know its great to post very sort of oh i couldn't care less...yaaaay!! comments but you'd be a bit concerned & ya know it. Especially the fathers.

Biggins

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Haha heres the fact of the matter...

If you had a little 4 or 5 year old son & he insisted in running around in dresses, you'd find it amusing for a week or 2.

After a prolonged length of time you'd be a bit stressed/worried & you'd probably start thinking of a plan to get him away from wanting feminine possessions.

C'mon don't bullsh!t yourselves. I know its great to post very sort of oh i couldn't care less...yaaaay!! comments but you'd be a bit concerned & ya know it. Especially the fathers.

Aaa no!
...And I say that with hand on heart.

I could be the exception to the rule but as a father of a daughter with Scoliosis and a man who had to watch his brother grow physically with severe brain damage and epilepsy, I count my blessings, my son is just ok.
I'll let him have his fads (as long as they don't put his life at risk) and when he does move on/out of them to the next one, as long as he's happy and healthy, I'm fine with it.

gurramok

jackiebaron wrote: »

There is no time. A kid will decide what he wants to wear whenever. Usually he will want to wear similar clothes to his dad and his friends. I used to love wearing wellies coz my uncle on the farm wore them and they made me feel important...like I was in a position of great responsibility even though my tasks during my summers there were to collect the eggs and pour milk from a bucket into the calf-trough.

If you are on a farm doing work in the muck, you are hardly going to wear high heels!:rolleyes:
I can just picture a kid wearing clothes like his dad, nothing from the fashion store for his age no?:rolleyes:

jackiebaron wrote: »

Girls will want to wear jeans if they see their mother wearing them. They will also want to wear jeans if they are a "daddy's girl" and he wears them. It's not rocket science.

Contradicting there to your following sentence about comfyness. So which is it, to be a 'daddy girl' or to be 'comfy'?

jackiebaron wrote: »

And no, girls don't turn out to have psychological difficulties because they wear jeans. Remember all girls who wear jeans and trainers as little girls probably choose to wear them because they are comfy and they feel "equal" to boys and may even bash up one or two boys if they get the urge.
A boy will RARELY choose to wear a dress however and these parents that tart up these so called "princess boys" are dressing the kid the way THEY (the parents) want to see him....not what he himself wants.
And before you come out and say "many of these princess boys want to wear dresses", I might point out to you that these boys have picked up on the fact that they are treated with a lot more doting and spoiling by these moronic parents when they dress like a girl than if they were just clad in regular boy duds so they are bound to want to wear the dress in order to be fawned over. It's not healthy.

Perhaps if that boy wanted a dress, its frowned upon and forced to wear jeans/trousers? You know, societal pressures.

Since when do clothes define a person's gender? Who made that one up?

ejmaztec

gurramok wrote: »

If you are on a farm doing work in the muck, you are hardly going to wear high heels!:rolleyes:

It all depends on how deep the sh1t is.

silverspoon

jackiebaron wrote: »

Girls will want to wear jeans if they see their mother wearing them. They will also want to wear jeans if they are a "daddy's girl" and he wears them. It's not rocket science.

A boy will RARELY choose to wear a dress however

Just want to emphasise this. Boys will rarely choose to wear a dress, perhaps because, unlike girls who see other females wearing jeans, they don't see other males wearing dresses. There are no skirts or dresses designed for boys or men available widely in shops. As babies and toddlers, we wear what our parents put on our backs. By the time any of us are old enough to notice what we're wearing and interact with clothes - have favourites etc. - the kinds of thing we wear are pretty established.

I'm not saying that I would run around after my hypothetical son urging him into skirts. But the stereotypes of what a boy wears are established firmly well before the boy himself is able to choose. By the time he is able to choose it's within the context of the boy's clothes already available to him, which do not include skirts and dresses. To say that he wouldn't choose a dress is really because he's not generally offered the option.

Is it because while jeans, as a stereotypical 'male' item of clothing, was empowering for a woman to wear, whereas a skirt or dress, as a stereotypical 'female' item, is somehow humiliating and debasing? I have no idea.

I don't see the harm in a little boy liking dresses. It's curiosity, it's innocent, and the child is not going to 'catch the gay' from trying on a tutu. I would certainly have no problem with my boy doing that. But isn't life difficult enough without the stupid mother making a big issue of it? I would be reluctant to let my son go out in public wearing a skirt or dress, because he would be too young to understand the implications for some people of him doing so, and if I were that little boy's mother, I'd be damned if I were going to make a spectacle of him so that people have 'food for thought'. By all means let him enjoy wearing a dress or skirt in his own house where no other d!ckheads could make him feel bad for it, but I wouldn't put my innocent kid through that for others to laugh at him, bully him or put him down.

pocketslint

On a purely practical level it is surely far easier to give someone wearing a dress a good kick up the hole.

Biggins

pocketslint wrote: »

On a purely practical level it is surely far easier to give someone wearing a dress a good kick up the hole.

Charming.

Thats you off the babysitting list!

Chuchoter

I would but I wouldn't put them on TV like some kind of freak. I think its very interesting however how its ok to be a tomboy, even a positive, but not the other way round, because being a girl is demeaning, its a social demotion.

Links234

absolutely I would, if that's what he wanted.

my views on the parents, I think you can be cynical and look at it as a ploy for money/attention/fame or something else, or you can look at it as a parent reaching out and trying to normalise what other parents might not know how to deal with and reaching out and helping other children.

there was something else I was reading recently, this article from portrait of an adoption.

first thing is that knowing the attitudes of people in after hours, I'd bet a lot of you would be up in arms about publicizing that a child is adopted, because there's a stigma that there's something wrong about being adopted and that kids might bully a child for that. instead of secrecy or shame about it, we are shown a child that is very happy and I think challenging the stigma attatched to adoptive children publically, is far better than them living with shame from it.

anyway, in the post I linked, the young girl Katie is bullied at school for liking star wars. the article got loads of feedback and many comments were left for Katie by women who also loved star wars and encouraged her to be herself.

Wow! Katie is overjoyed by the comments coming in!!! My sweet first grade daughter has been sitting with me at the computer, reading aloud all the wonderful, supportive notes from readers, and her face is shining. Each night after dinner, we are going to sit together, and she is going to read several comments to me and her daddy. We are going to print the comments out and make a book for her to read whenever she feels the need. Today she wore a Star Wars shirt to school and said to me, "Tell the people about it!!!!" This is really restoring her self confidence. She did a jaunty little pirouette in her Star Wars shirt before school. Thank you, Carrie

Read more: http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/portrait_of_an_adoption/2010/11/anti-bullying-starts-in-first-grade.html#ixzz1A5bGY8lD

I think this publicity is a positive thing, and helped her find confidence in herself and that it's ok to be different. reaching out and getting support in this way can be a very, very good thing.

I think the parents of the boy who likes to dress as a girl are doing something equally positive in reaching out.

it's better to challenge things, challenge the stigmas and stereotypes and help kids be confident in their individuality. be it adoption, or having interests that are supposedly bound to one gender, or any number of things. the more we normalise these things, the more we encourage kids to be confident in themselves and their own interests, and the more we refuse to kowtow to the bullies, the better a future we'll have for raising all children. a kid isn't going to pick on another kid for being different if they don't think there's anything wrong with being different.

TheZohanS

Links234 wrote: »

absolutely I would, if that's what he wanted.

my views on the parents, I think you can be cynical and look at it as a ploy for money/attention/fame or something else, or you can look at it as a parent reaching out and trying to normalise what other parents might not know how to deal with and reaching out and helping other children.

there was something else I was reading recently, this article from portrait of an adoption.

first thing is that knowing the attitudes of people in after hours, I'd bet a lot of you would be up in arms about publicizing that a child is adopted, because there's a stigma that there's something wrong about being adopted and that kids might bully a child for that. instead of secrecy or shame about it, we are shown a child that is very happy and I think challenging the stigma attatched to adoptive children publically, is far better than them living with shame from it.

anyway, in the post I linked, the young girl Katie is bullied at school for liking star wars. the article got loads of feedback and many comments were left for Katie by women who also loved star wars and encouraged her to be herself.



I think this publicity is a positive thing, and helped her find confidence in herself and that it's ok to be different. reaching out and getting support in this way can be a very, very good thing.

I think the parents of the boy who likes to dress as a girl are doing something equally positive in reaching out.

it's better to challenge things, challenge the stigmas and stereotypes and help kids be confident in their individuality. be it adoption, or having interests that are supposedly bound to one gender, or any number of things. the more we normalise these things, the more we encourage kids to be confident in themselves and their own interests, and the more we refuse to kowtow to the bullies, the better a future we'll have for raising all children. a kid isn't going to pick on another kid for being different if they don't think there's anything wrong with being different.

Ah Links you can dress up a dude in a dress but at the end of the day he's still a dude. It's would be far easier on the kid in the long run for the parents to give the child some proper guidance when he's young rather than having him end up spending years on a shrinks chair.

Kiera

TheZohan wrote: »

Ah Links you can dress up a dude in a dress but at the end of the day he's still a dude. It's would be far easier on the kid in the long run for the parents to give the child some proper guidance when he's young rather than having him end up spending years on a shrinks chair.

*hands TheZohan a lid* Quick, stick it back on that can of worms....

Links234

Links234 wrote: »

absolutely I would, if that's what he wanted.

my views on the parents, I think you can be cynical and look at it as a ploy for money/attention/fame or something else, or you can look at it as a parent reaching out and trying to normalise what other parents might not know how to deal with and reaching out and helping other children.

there was something else I was reading recently, this article from portrait of an adoption.

first thing is that knowing the attitudes of people in after hours, I'd bet a lot of you would be up in arms about publicizing that a child is adopted, because there's a stigma that there's something wrong about being adopted and that kids might bully a child for that. instead of secrecy or shame about it, we are shown a child that is very happy and I think challenging the stigma attatched to adoptive children publically, is far better than them living with shame from it.

anyway, in the post I linked, the young girl Katie is bullied at school for liking star wars. the article got loads of feedback and many comments were left for Katie by women who also loved star wars and encouraged her to be herself.



I think this publicity is a positive thing, and helped her find confidence in herself and that it's ok to be different. reaching out and getting support in this way can be a very, very good thing.

I think the parents of the boy who likes to dress as a girl are doing something equally positive in reaching out.

it's better to challenge things, challenge the stigmas and stereotypes and help kids be confident in their individuality. be it adoption, or having interests that are supposedly bound to one gender, or any number of things. the more we normalise these things, the more we encourage kids to be confident in themselves and their own interests, and the more we refuse to kowtow to the bullies, the better a future we'll have for raising all children. a kid isn't going to pick on another kid for being different if they don't think there's anything wrong with being different.

Would you mind if I asked had you children? Im not trying to be a smart arse, just curious.
If so, would you allow your son to play out in a dress? Equally if he wanted to wear a dress for his communion, like that boy in the pics earlier, would you really honestly be okay with that? Knowing the possible abuse the child would suffer?

Links234

Kiera wrote: »

*hands TheZohan a lid* Quick, stick it back on that can of worms....

Zohan's idea of good parenting is a "kick up the hole", so he's hardly worth arguing with

Kiera

Links234 wrote: »

Zohan's idea of good parenting is a "kick up the hole", so he's hardly worth arguing with

*takes lid back*

TheZohanS

Links234 wrote: »

Zohan's idea of good parenting is a "kick up the hole", so he's hardly worth arguing with

Lol, good man.

Links234

Jake1 wrote: »

Would you mind if I asked had you children? Im not trying to be a smart arse, just curious.
If so, would you allow your son to play out in a dress? Equally if he wanted to wear a dress for his communion, like that boy in the pics earlier, would you really honestly be okay with that? Knowing the possible abuse the child would suffer?

no, I don't have children, but I was bullied as a child and I know what it's like.

but what really gets to me, is this kowtowing to the bully mentality. I constantly hear that in reference to gay adoption, that the child would probably be bullied. but the fault lies 100% with the bullies.

kids get bullied over wearing glasses, do you get glasses for your child that has a sight defect, knowing the possible abuse the child would suffer? same principle.

I think it's very wrong thinking that a child should change on account of bullies, because that just feeds into their self confidence, and if a kid is made to feel guilt and shame over their expression, interests, or things they can't help, then I think that's gonna be really damaging. I would much rather have been told to hold my head high as a kid, and not care what other people think, because that's something that I didn't learn until much later in life, and it's something pretty essential in life too. instead, I was made to feel ashamed that I wasn't like other kids, or that I wasn't into sports. I was made to feel ashamed that I was sensitive. how the hell is that good for anyone?

Links234

TheZohan wrote: »

Lol, good man woman.

fixed it for you

Biggins

Links234 wrote: »

Zohan's idea of good parenting is a "kick up the hole", so he's hardly worth arguing with

Aaa.. bless ya, you don't really know the Zohan like we do. :pac:

Your lucky!

TheZohanS

Links234 wrote: »

fixed it for you

Weren't you born a dude?

Dermighty

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

my 1 and a half year old daughter wears jeans and rugby jersey's as well as her girly clothes, she plays with rugby balls, Lego, and cars alongside her more girly toys, is that wrong?

Yes. Throw her in the wood chipper before it's too late. I recommend the Craftsman 2 way 305cc.

XxMCRxBabyxX

Links234 wrote: »

first thing is that knowing the attitudes of people in after hours, I'd bet a lot of you would be up in arms about publicizing that a child is adopted, because there's a stigma that there's something wrong about being adopted and that kids might bully a child for that. instead of secrecy or shame about it, we are shown a child that is very happy and I think challenging the stigma attatched to adoptive children publically, is far better than them living with shame from it.

Do you genuinely believe this?

there is a huge difference between parading a young boy's (considered unusual) habit all over TV and revealing that a child is adopted. For starters there are hugely different acceptance rates between the two and also the second isn't as likely to raise mental issues in the child in future if he decides that he now likes boy clothes.

An adopted child knows that he is adopted and will most likely come to terms with that in some way or another. To parade a child around for 'being different' is disgusting imo and could really come back to screw him up in the future.

None of that is saying that I have a problem with the boy dressing as he wishes. Just the way the parents are trying to cash in on it rather than just let him be. Watch that video. That poor little boy looks absolutely petrified. Could you really do that to your own child?

Maddison

The parents of that child deserve to get a bloody good smack on the arses. Children role play, Its a part of growing up, we have all played mammies & daddys, doctors & nurses and yes Ive been stung with the daddy role myself. My son is very much a boyish boy but if he were to try on my make up thats fine because Its only PLAY. I think most of our parents have photos of us as children that they whip out to our boyfriends/girlfriends at some stage in order to get a giggle. My family blew up phots of my brother wearing a dress for his 21st. But It was him PLAYING. The parents of that child are making a mockery of what all children do at some time or another & making what is innocent not so. Do they not realise that there are sick ****s out there that could possibly get 'kicks' out of that video?

RichieC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1taC3JjIOkM

starbelgrade

azezil wrote: »

Correct

That sounds like you're contradicting what you just said.

No... you took my sentence & edited it to make it seem like I was contradicting myself, but I clearly wasn't.

I can do the same with you post.

Watch...

azezil wrote: »

That sounds like you're contradicting

No, I'm not. You're editing of my sentence only made it look that way, don't you agree?

azezil wrote: »

Correct - what you just said.

Thanks, I knew you'd see it my way.

AckwelFoley

My grandfather was dressed as a girl at that age - and that was nearly 100 years ago - they wanted a girl so for the first few years dressed him as one.

starbelgrade

TheZohan wrote: »

Weren't you born a dude?

Weren't you born under a bridge?

ashyle

It's fine for a 5 year old to dress whichever way he wants. Stage parents on the other hand... yuck

FatherTed

It seems the kid or the parents don't have a problem with it.

It's other people who have a problem with it. Maybe they should look at themselves and their own issues.

Micky Dolenz

Any more flaming = Bans.

ashyle

Food for thought. kids are kids.

Wolfe Tone

Conor D wrote: »

@starbelgrade
@Mussolini

My statement is what it is. Regardless of Hemmingway's suicide he was regarded as one of the greatest journalists of all time before moving into writing novels where he was regarded equally in high regard. Dito Nicholson in acting.

Both made a name for themselves as womanisers.

I am not saying either means 'success' however I am addressing the 2 main concerns people may have regarding putting a boy in girls clothes:

1 Will this mean the boy will be homosexual
2 Will this mean the boy may not succeed because of confusion

PLEASE NOTE:

I DID NOT SAY there is anything wrong with being homosexual or with not reaching your potential.

I DID SAY what we wear as kids doesn't amount to a hill of beans

Hemingway was an alcoholic, a wife-beater, a liar and a fraud. He suffered greatly with depression, anxiety and paranoia. He spent the last year of his life convinced the CIA were after him. Numerous members of his family killed themselves.

Wolfe Tone

Is it important to explain to the kids what the clothes mean? Sure the kid may think of them as just clothes, later in life he may be pissed at the folks for letting him make a fool of himself.

Jane Eyre

There's nothing wrong with a five year old dressing up as a girl. Would anyone object if he wanted to dress up as a gorilla? Honest to God, my son wore his Spiderman costume every day for three months. I had to wash it while he was asleep.
Dressing up is part of growing up. And if he's ten and still wants to dress as a girl, maybe then its time to explain that its unusual (not abnormal) but he will have figured it out by then.
Let the kid be a kid I say!

stripysocks85

I teach 4/5 year olds.

A boy in my class raves about Friday being 'Costume Day' and informs me of his princess costume and such. Same boy took a doll to school one day to play with.

His mother was a little concerned and said she's trying to wean him out of it.

I told her that she need not have any huge concerns - he's only 5! Boys [and girls!] at that age look to pretend, to engage in fantasy play, and the make believe. Whilst I don't think parading him around and labelling him as 'Princess Boy' or whatever is appropriate, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 5 year old boy dressing up in girls clothing.

5 year old girls often put their Mammy's high heels on and wear lipstick - is this wrong?

Young children adore play and make believe. Let them be children.

I've heard some boys in my class say 'Oh no pink is a girls colour!' - Where do they get such silly nonsense?! Clearly at home such stereotypes like 'blue is a boys colour/skirts are for girls' are encouraged at home, when really, there shouldn't be such a huge emphasis.

stovelid

If there was some way I could exploit it for commercial gain: yes.

Tesco Massacre

Allow it? I'd encourage it.

WindSock

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Is it important to explain to the kids what the clothes mean? Sure the kid may think of them as just clothes, later in life he may be pissed at the folks for letting him make a fool of himself.

Why is it foolish to wear these clothes?

Iwasfrozen

Tesco Massacre wrote: »

Allow it? I'd encourage it.

?

Wolfe Tone

WindSock wrote: »

Why is it foolish to wear these clothes?

Cause he would be laughed at.

If he doesen't cop that the clothes are girls clothes and just thinks of all clothes as the same, when he eventually cops on he may be pissed.

"Why did you let me wear girls clothes ffs?"

WindSock

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Cause he would be laughed at.

If he doesen't cop that the clothes are girls clothes and just thinks of all clothes as the same, when he eventually cops on he may be pissed.

"Why did you let me wear girls clothes ffs?"

What if he were more pissed because he wasn't allowed wear them?

Wolfe Tone

WindSock wrote: »

What if he were more pissed because he wasn't allowed wear them?

Thats why I am saying to teach the kid the difference, then let him decide

I think the kid would be more embarrassed in the 'god I was on tv as a kid, cringe' way than anything else. Or 'what the hell was up with that perm??' kind of way.

WindSock

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats why I am saying to teach the kid the difference, then let him decide

Why should there be a difference?

Iwasfrozen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats why I am saying to teach the kid the difference, then let him decide

Why in the name of God would you allow a five year old child to decide what type of clothes to wear? Children at that age don't have any sense.