Student Union Elections 2011

unknown13

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Ents: Kinsella by far came out the worst here in my opinion. His idea of moving the UCD Ball off campus (to Slane!!!!!) to facilitate camping was ridiculed by his opponents and he generally does not seem to have any sort of capability to be a realist thinker. He seems to be just promoting change for the sake of it. Robert Manning did a good job in separating himself from the candidates when it came to highlighting the experience he has that will facilitate him in office, but all the same he tended to focus a little too much on what he has done in the past rather than what he intends to do in the future. Darcy was pretty impressive and he was able to promptly reply to one or two questions put his way seemingly to try and knock him off course. From what I remember Edel got on OK as well!

Kinsella got exposed big time and apart from the Far Left candidates, he was the worst speaker of the night. He is definitely the worst candidate for the job. I thought Kieran was a bit harsh on Edel though. She rarely spoke first and was left agreeing with Darcy and Manning. Manning gave a very good account of himself and Darcy performed very well.

Have to agree with Fad: Kinsella's campaign team are very annoying they rammed the Theathre M and made it known that they were there but Kinsella won't get any transfers from Darcy, Edel and Manning. Kinsella has put himself in a bad position Darcy, Edel and Manning are going to transfer to each other.

The ENTS hustings on Monday will be the big and will tell us a lot more as ENTS is the big race this year.

Sanchez13

clearly kinsella's campaign team went in their with the attitude that they didnt give a f**k. i respect them for that seeing as they were all a younger crew and not union hacks. they were a breath of fresh air. also if they become annoying over the "next few weeks" thats just fine, the elections are wednesday and thursday. if having half the audience on ur side is a negative then i dont know what planet your on. i agree he spoke poorly, he was rattled early on, but this is the same guy who is being talked about all over campus for his lecture addressing.

also, because im now slightly pro-kinsella, id like to say that more people will join his cause when they hear about the debate, and thats just from what ive heard today.

lets be honest, what it was, three hacks, 2 ents, 1 union, on stage bullying the new guy, trying to ridicule him. they are 2 busy hiding behind their conservative manifesto's and relying on their own personal status to get them elected. fair play to kinsella for getting up there.

mloc

Sanchez13 wrote: »

they are 2 busy hiding behind their conservative manifesto's and relying on their own personal status to get them elected. fair play to kinsella for getting up there.

I think the word conservative here could easily be replaced with realistic.

Foxtrol

Blut2 wrote: »

From being friends with a lot of the Ents crew a couple of years ago as far as I'm aware when it comes to booking acts for big events like the UCD Ball its basically a case of MCD going "heres who we have available on that date willing to play for X price, take it or leave it". The ents officer doesnt really have a whole lot of sway.

You're getting mixed up between the UCD ball and the Trinity Ball. The first UCD ball was co-promoted with MCD but it flopped so MCD didn't want to continue with it (a decision they probably regret now). The Ents officer has the power to go off and book which ever acts he wants/can afford.

Foxtrol

Prodigaldaughtr wrote: »

You are totally right in regard to connections, but that is exactly what im saying, "if you actually know someone who has major sway with a band ", and I know Darcy does. His campaign manager (also one of his best mates) works in MCD, also at Download, at Electiric Picnic, at Oxegen,and not in low level positions either so there is no point retorting with that point. If anyone is going to know who up and coming "borderline" acts are, and know them personally it will be them.

I call Bullsh*t! You are either stretching the truth or have been taken in by a bit of campaign buzz. No one on Darcy's team is in with MCD or anyone else to the point were they are getting favours from them. MCD (and all the other booking agents for that matter) is a business so unless they're the son of Denis Desmond they will not be getting cut price deals. The few experienced ents candidates and their teams can, at best, recognise most of the time when someone is trying to screw them for an act. Actually if you're that confident about their sway go ahead and tell us who you're talking about.

Prodigaldaughtr wrote: »

Also, the point about MCD presenting acts and saying take it or leave it is not entirely valid. Im Mike-Pat's year, he wasnt happy with MCD's behavior or proposals, so he organised the ball without them, bookin acts himself through his own connections. Things have changed since then. From what I can see, MCD are much more willing to negotiate now, rather than lose UCD, Ireland's biggest college, as a source of revenue again. Getting people in there who know about what has previously happened and know how to deal with MCD is important.

Mike Pat didn't organise the Ball without MCD he used them as a booking agent along with several others. I agree its important to know how to deal with booking agents but just to the point when it comes to being overcharged or tied into unsatisfactory terms. The most important thing is selecting acts which will sell out at the necessary pricing levels to make the gig economically viable.

Foxtrol

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

It was a 3 vs 1 situation, you could feel the tension and intimidation. Everyone could see what was going on and it wasn't pretty.

There was a good point made by someone at the end, that the debate was essentially about the reasons to vote for Darragh and the reasons not to vote for Darragh. I'll tell you one thing, the only person i saw in there showing any sense of creativity and passion was Darragh.

I wasn't at the hustings so I cant give a proper verdict on how it went but from what I've read from Darragh's supporters here I'm not surprised something like this happened. Honestly when you come into a race tarring the other candidates as a "clique" you're asking for them to circle the wagon and fire back at the guy who is attacking them.

It might be the fact that I was around UCD for a while but the whole "fight the clique" thing really gets to me. I'm all for people not in the SU getting involved and running for positions and would have actually seen it as a positive when looking at voting for a candidate. However, when candidates focus the core message of their campaign to "fighting the clique" instead of the ideas and positives they can bring to the position I really feel they are taking the easy way out.

unknown13

Sanchez13 wrote: »

lets be honest, what it was, three hacks, 2 ents, 1 union, on stage bullying the new guy, trying to ridicule him. they are 2 busy hiding behind their conservative manifesto's and relying on their own personal status to get them elected. fair play to kinsella for getting up there.

Lets be honest here. Kinsella has to realise, he has a BUDGET

kiwi2307

As a neutral I still am finding it difficult to decide about who to vote for for ENTS.

However there is something very bitter in the campaign strategy's of Darcy, Manning and Edel. I have heard each of them speak and it appears that they are more interested in giving us reasons not to vote for Kinsella than to vote or themselves. All three may be experienced which I do find appealing but they are the same. If you asked me to give you something new and exciting they are going to do I couldn't tell you!! I can't see anything changing if they get in unfortunately

I agree that Kinsella didn't perform at the hustings on Thursday night but he did seem the most passionate. His camping at UCD ball idea may be a bit outlandish but apart from that his other ideas are fresh and exciting.The other three, and Manning in particular, came off a bit snobbish at the hustings laughing and giggling to themselves when Kinsella spoke. Edel's body language was also very rude and I think makes her very hard to like. This is defiantly NOT doing them any favours to sway people like myself. It is going to just veer people to Kinsella's campaign. No one likes negativity!!

unknown13

kiwi2307 wrote: »

I believe it is true that Kinsella didn't perform at the hustings on Thursday night but he did seem the most passionate. His camping at UCD ball idea may be a bit outlandish but apart from that his other ideas are fresh and exciting.The other three, and Manning in particular, came off a bit snobbish at the hustings laughing and giggling to themselves when Kinsella spoke. Edel's body language was also very rude and I think makes her very hard to like. This is defiantly NOT doing them any favours to sway people like myself. It is going to just veer people to Kinsella's campaign. No one likes negativity!!

I am sorry but there is a few things that have to be pulled up here. It appears you were not at the hustings.

Manning did not come off a snob at all. He gave a very good account of himself.

If you were not there how can you judge someone's body language.

Kinsella has the biggest campaign team in this election. He has filled that campaign team with pure and utter tripe which is spreading around campus. Most of his ideas are not realistic and possible.

kiwi2307

unknown13 wrote: »

I am sorry but there is a few things that have to be pulled up here. It appears you were not at the hustings.

Manning did not come off a snob at all. He gave a very good account of himself.

If you were not there how can you judge someone's body language.

Kinsella has the biggest campaign team in this election. He has filled that campaign team with pure and utter tripe which is spreading around campus. Most of his ideas are not realistic and possible.

Let me rephrase that... 'I agree' instead of 'I believe that'. I was at the hustings and I am not denying that!

Apart from the camping at UCD ball idea I see nothing in Kinsella's campaign that isn't achieveable!.

Well I am just telling you that from someone who isn't supporting anyone he did come across as a snob. He is a good public speaker and he did well in his speech but his behavior when the debate was open to the floor was very off putting!!! That will NOT win him votes!

Foxtrol

kiwi2307 wrote: »

Apart from the camping at UCD ball idea I see nothing in Kinsella's campaign that isn't achieveable!.

Just read his manifesto. The international mystery tour is in no way feasible on a large scale. Other than that and the camping idea (which has also been sunk) I see nothing thats really that new or original.

kiwi2307

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just read his manifesto. The international mystery tour is in no way feasible on a large scale. Other than that and the camping idea (which has also been sunk) I see nothing thats really that new or original.

UCC had a European Mystery Tour this year according to Kinsella is that not correct?

ALSO, Trinity's newly elected ENTs officer promised a european mystery tour aswell and nothing was said so it might be achieveable!

Foxtrol

kiwi2307 wrote: »

UCC had a European Mystery Tour this year according to Kinsella is that not correct?

That I dont know.

If there was can you tell me how many people went on it? What was the cost of a ticket? How much of a loss did they make? What sort of insurance did they get to cover the trip?

Its easy to make unrealistic claims like running an international mystery tour during an election without going into any detail and, from what has happened with regards to the camping idea, probably without any research on his part.

Explain to me how it could be viable to do it a) for more than the size of a class and b) in a way doesn't risk a large proportion if not the entire ents budget.

Prodigaldaughtr

Foxtrol wrote: »

I call Bullsh*t! You are either stretching the truth or have been taken in by a bit of campaign buzz. No one on Darcy's team is in with MCD or anyone else to the point were they are getting favours from them. MCD (and all the other booking agents for that matter) is a business so unless they're the son of Denis Desmond they will not be getting cut price deals. The few experienced ents candidates and their teams can, at best, recognise most of the time when someone is trying to screw them for an act. Actually if you're that confident about their sway go ahead and tell us who you're talking about.

Haha, alrite there, we're all here to have a chat aren't we. No need for profanities.
I havent even been into UCD with the last 2 weeks m'dear so I deffo havent been taken in by the election buzz.
Ask Darcy's campaign manager himself, he works in MCD. That is an indisputable fact, him amongst others in the team actually.
I never mentioned cut-price deals wherever you got that from.
The point im trying to make here is that they are in a position to recognise acts on the verge of making it, who aren't going to cost an arm and a leg, yet!Thats what I meant by the up and coming acts. Anyway, we aren't disputing that the experience is there, so no point in arguing on that one.
Re Mike-pat, perhaps I was misinformed on that one, was pretty sure he hadn't used MCD after the argument.
The point is, I would rather see someone in there who did have some previous experience. Your entitled to your own opinion of course, and I do have to say, if Kinsella doesn't win this, at least he'll have brought in new ideas, and maybe he could still join ents, bring more new people in and make changes to it that way, if he was really interested in getting more people involved in exrtacurricular activities in UCD, both alcoholic and non-alcoholic!

JBoy!

just saw the tribune posted up facebook polls on all the races.. somehow i actually tink they will offer a fair enough representation ...

Fad

kiwi2307 wrote: »

I agree with you, Kinsella should do some research and have proper figures for next hustings on this otherwise he is filling us with empty promises. However if he does put a lot of work into organising it I don't see how it cannot be done.

How would this affect ents budget? is mystery tour not payed for by students themselves?

It's backed by the ents budget.

It would have to be booked waaaay in advance, and if it didn't take off due to cost, it would murder the budget.

Prodigaldaughtr

poor Lorcan doesn't seem to be fairing too well there

unknown13

TBH: If Manning or Darcy said they would organise a European mystery tour. I wouldn't mind the idea. The fact that it is coming out of an idiot such as Kinsella means that there is no way I want to believe the idea.

Kinsella; hasn't been a class rep, he hasn't been on the ents crew. he has no experience and we are dealing with ents, which is a bloody stressful job because you worry about the event being a success or not. How on earth is this guy suitable for the job?

Foxtrol

Prodigaldaughtr wrote: »

Haha, alrite there, we're all here to have a chat aren't we. No need for profanities.
I havent even been into UCD with the last 2 weeks m'dear so I deffo havent been taken in by the election buzz.
Ask Darcy's campaign manager himself, he works in MCD. That is an indisputable fact, him amongst others in the team actually.
I never mentioned cut-price deals wherever you got that from.
The point im trying to make here is that they are in a position to recognise acts on the verge of making it, who aren't going to cost an arm and a leg, yet!Thats what I meant by the up and coming acts. Anyway, we aren't disputing that the experience is there, so no point in arguing on that one.
Re Mike-pat, perhaps I was misinformed on that one, was pretty sure he hadn't used MCD after the argument.
The point is, I would rather see someone in there who did have some previous experience. Your entitled to your own opinion of course, and I do have to say, if Kinsella doesn't win this, at least he'll have brought in new ideas, and maybe he could still join ents, bring more new people in and make changes to it that way, if he was really interested in getting more people involved in exrtacurricular activities in UCD, both alcoholic and non-alcoholic!

Tell me what who you're talking about & I'll know if he works in MCD or not. Also, I'll point out now that I do not count DJing now and again at one of their nightclub events or flyering for them as "working for MCD".

The majority of the experienced lads on Darcy's team would have been around ents for years. Are you saying they've been keeping all their up and coming acts secret? The reason that its hard to book these up and coming acts is because UCD is basically mainstream when it comes to music and if you go out putting your neck on the line for acts who you think might be popular in a few months more often than not you'll end up with a late license and an empty bar.

I'm in full agreement with you as far as experience goes. Whether it be with ents or from outside, some form of event management/promotion experience is important. There's been a good run of ents officers with decent experience over the last few years. Most students dont remember when the last ents officer with very little experience was elected and how poor that year was. UCD students might be needing another reminder.

Foxtrol

Fad wrote: »

It's backed by the ents budget.

It would have to be booked waaaay in advance, and if it didn't take off due to cost, it would murder the budget.

This.

Its dodgy enough running an irish mystery tour when trying to meet the sunk costs for insurance, medics, security etc and this is with buses which are far more flexible to order than a plane. To get a decent sized tour you'd probably have to charter your own plane which would have to be paid for no matter what. On top of that insurance would be outrageous along with number of potential disasters that could (and probably would) happen. If sales didnt go to plan it would probably mean there would be no UCD Ball and all other events would have to be curtailed.

Its simply not going to happen in UCD on a large scale.

Prodigaldaughtr

Foxtrol wrote: »

Tell me what who you're talking about & I'll know if he works in MCD or not. Also, I'll point out now that I do not count DJing now and again at one of their nightclub events or flyering for them as "working for MCD".

The majority of the experienced lads on Darcy's team would have been around ents for years. Are you saying they've been keeping all their up and coming acts secret? The reason that its hard to book these up and coming acts is because UCD is basically mainstream when it comes to music and if you go out putting your neck on the line for acts who you think might be popular in a few months more often than not you'll end up with a late license and an empty bar.

I'm in full agreement with you as far as experience goes. Whether it be with ents or from outside, some form of event management/promotion experience is important. There's been a good run of ents officers with decent experience over the last few years. Most students dont remember when the last ents officer with very little experience was elected and how poor that year was. UCD students might be needing another reminder.

James Lynch is Darcy's campaign manager. I'm not an idiot thanks very much. I wouldn't count the djing every now and then as it either so u can cut it with the condescension.
I don't even know how you can make a point asking them where they've been hiding there emerging acts, the point is, if an act is coming to the fore and has one or two hits, then they have to be able to see that and snap them up. Take last year for example, deadmau5 at the bar, absolutely massive dj act now, who they managed to just grab before his price rocketed.
You cant hide up and coming acts, its all about acting instantly.

Gingy

For anyone who missed the hustings yesterday, you will get a 2nd chance on Monday. ENTS hustings in the bar at 6 and BelfieldFM hustings at 7 in theatre L. Last real chance to publicly praise/slate candidates.

Georgie1989

Suzanne Lee should have got a red card at the hustings. Imagine swearing your mouth off, insulting the audience who were sat listening to you and then telling the mediators you're an adult and can do what you like. Came across as an immature A-hole. She did more good for the other candidates.

Breslin did amazing I thought and stole my #1 from Donaher.

Darcy was absolutely incredible I thought. He went in spoke about his own manifesto and then picked apart the other candidates. He really made himself look good doing the research on their manifestos. Ents is by far the most entertaining campaign.

I wasn't too pushed by education or the president debates.

Foxtrol

Prodigaldaughtr wrote: »

James Lynch is Darcy's campaign manager. I'm not an idiot thanks very much. I wouldn't count the djing every now and then as it either so u can cut it with the condescension.
I don't even know how you can make a point asking them where they've been hiding there emerging acts, the point is, if an act is coming to the fore and has one or two hits, then they have to be able to see that and snap them up. Take last year for example, deadmau5 at the bar, absolutely massive dj act now, who they managed to just grab before his price rocketed.
You cant hide up and coming acts, its all about acting instantly.

Sorry I didn't mean to be condescending but I know lots of people who claim to work for MCD who at best only do jobs now and again for them. Lynch is a nice guy but does not work at any level of importance/influence within MCD.

The point I was making was that if you are right and Lynch and the rest of Darcy's team have such a great knowledge of acts which are up and coming then surely they would have been telling Mike Pat or Jonny about them and every second week there would be a recent success story in the UCD bar.

Deadmau5 was big when he played UCD, he was in no way some kind of under the radar act when he was booked. High level DJ's can be gotten a lot cheaper than mid level bands due to cost and venue requirements. He's gotten more mainstream attention since but he's a very poor example of the point you're trying to make.

Im not trying to put down anyones experience and I'm agreeing with you that its important and that Darcy's team are very experienced. I just dont believe people should be making assertions and hype around candidates a d what they can do that cant be backed up.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

Foxtrol wrote: »

I wasn't at the hustings so I cant give a proper verdict on how it went but from what I've read from Darragh's supporters here I'm not surprised something like this happened. Honestly when you come into a race tarring the other candidates as a "clique" you're asking for them to circle the wagon and fire back at the guy who is attacking them.

It might be the fact that I was around UCD for a while but the whole "fight the clique" thing really gets to me. I'm all for people not in the SU getting involved and running for positions and would have actually seen it as a positive when looking at voting for a candidate. However, when candidates focus the core message of their campaign to "fighting the clique" instead of the ideas and positives they can bring to the position I really feel they are taking the easy way out.

Read Darragh's manifesto and listen to one of his lecture addresses before you throw out crap that he's running a campaign to 'fight the clique'. That's Brendan Lannoye's campaign. Darragh's campaign is based on getting out new ideas and getting a wider array of students involved with the SU and ents. Never once is the term 'clique' used so please don't lambast him as being an anarch. Darragh is the only one campaigning for himself, and not against the others!


Darragh has plenty more ideas besides what the whole focus of the hustings was on, the camping at the ucd ball - which funnily enough Edel has mentioned in her manifesto.

The european mystery tour, sports and socs ball, ucd olympics, a proper beer garden outside the ucd bar,a class rep database, a revamped battle of the bands, sadie hawkins ball, early morning screenings of the rugby world cup, the ents informations crew and more importantly not just the idea but the passion he has for getting others involved.. and they're just the ones i can think of

When asked what point in their manifesto's separated them for eachother, 3 of them answered with the same thing, non-alcoholic events. I mean come on!

Killer Pigeon

Did anyone notice that Brendan Lannoye is extremely pale ... what's with that?

I haven't made up my mind for any of the candidates yet, except that Anarcho-Feminist Girl who want to allocate allotments around campus to grow vegetables. I'd say she'd be good crack in the SU.

Sanchez13

unknown13 wrote: »

TBH: If Manning or Darcy said they would organise a European mystery tour. I wouldn't mind the idea. The fact that it is coming out of an idiot such as Kinsella means that there is no way I want to believe the idea.

Kinsella; hasn't been a class rep, he hasn't been on the ents crew. he has no experience and we are dealing with ents, which is a bloody stressful job because you worry about the event being a success or not. How on earth is this guy suitable for the job?

I dont know who your supporting, Manning/Darcy, probably both, typical close minded hack comment there. Afraid of whats new buddy. Kinsella doesnt have the largest campaign team for nothing. The whole ethos of the students union is that anyone can and should get involved at any stage of their college careers. I would actually pose the argument that Darcy has been around too long, hes a night club man and thats what has ruined ents in the last few years. Darcy performed very well at the hustings, and for that he deserves respect. He however maybe should have challenged Manning on a couple of things just to diffuse the whole "ganging up" allegations. Kinsella is by no means a debater, he's a cult hero who will challenge how things are done and fair play to him.

Fad

Sanchez13 wrote: »

I dont know who your supporting, Manning/Darcy, probably both, typical close minded hack comment there. Afraid of whats new buddy. Kinsella doesnt have the largest campaign team for nothing. The whole ethos of the students union is that anyone can and should get involved at any stage of their college careers. I would actually pose the argument that Darcy has been around too long, hes a night club man and thats what has ruined ents in the last few years. Darcy performed very well at the hustings, and for that he deserves respect. He however maybe should have challenged Manning on a couple of things just to diffuse the whole "ganging up" allegations. Kinsella is by no means a debater, he's a cult hero who will challenge how things are done and fair play to him.

I heard his campaign manager nearly walked out on him because he didn't want to (Read: Was too lazy to) do interviews with the papers. If he couldn't be arsed doing that, what exactly should I expect of him next year? He'll be expected to do some on a weekly basis...

I dont care if he doesn't want to interface with the papers, fine, let him shoot himself in the foot that way, but realistically, if he's too lazy to do that, what else will he balk on, because this job is going to be a lot of effort considering he lacks even the most basic experience....

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

Fad wrote: »

I heard his campaign manager nearly walked out on him because he didn't want to (Read: Was too lazy to) do interviews with the papers. If he couldn't be arsed doing that, what exactly should I expect of him next year? He'll be expected to do some on a weekly basis...

I dont care if he doesn't want to interface with the papers, fine, let him shoot himself in the foot that way, but realistically, if he's too lazy to do that, what else will he balk on, because this job is going to be a lot of effort considering he lacks even the most basic experience....

Just to clarify,

I can say with 100% accuracy that the above statement is false. Darragh's campaign manager is Jamie Rath and he has not once considered walking out during the whole campaign, whoever told you different was lying. Darragh has been to all meetings, interviews and debates so far and there hasn't been any issue regarding any of them!

rockman15

Sorry folks ive been reading this for a while now and cant believe the nonsense ive been seeing.

First of all while Kinsella might be a new face his team certainly isnt. First of all his manager is the brother of Viv and Paddy Rath, both of whom have successfully severed the union and various societies in the past. I would imagine Jamie isnt planning the campagin and potential ents year without some help. Paddy (if you've been around as long as I have you'll remember) ran various nightclub events with Steve Quinlavin back in the day. Id be very suprised if they were not planning very similar business model with Kinsella and Rath Jr. Jr.

Running a successful ents unit does not require massive contacts with Aiken or MCD. In fact precedencing relationships in that industry is largely a killer: one bad show and your toast. Arguing that Darcy would make a better ents officer than Manning becuase he has more nightclub experience is horse sh!t. Promoting night club events is the easy part (having done it mself), yet Darcy blew up it with Rios which already blacklists him withother bars and clubs. Just to clarify other points made earlier he is not involved with NV's successful nights. Anybody who has been invovled closely with the ents team over the past few years is going to have workable nightclub contacts. The posters here are making too big a deal over it. Also name dropping of acts if frankly an appaulling idea. Trends by definition come and go.

Ents is more about the coordination of resources for the 3/4 larger events during the year and making them successful. The rest of it is an ongoing operation. A working relationship and contacts in the UCD administation is FAR more use to a candidate who actually wants to get things done, than MCD or Aiken.