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Double standards on the Politics forum?

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2

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    #32
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    nesf wrote: »
    If you wish to dispute this, you may take it to the Dispute Resolution forum and ask the Admins to review your case.

    If it's as much a kangaroo court as the one you've just executed, I'd rather not.


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    #33
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So calling supporters, not a single one in particular, deluded is a bannable offence?


    Just to be entirely clear in order to ensure there are no double standards for different political parties.

    It's a bannable offence if you've racked up well over a dozen infractions and multiple bans in the forum. It's all about context. The particular party supporters in question being insulted don't actually matter. I don't want to go into specifics here, but this poster's personal record for infractions and bans in six month period is mind boggling. Everything stems from that.


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    #34
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    More than half!!

    Mea culpa. I stand corrected; much more than half. There's the optimist in me again, Mussolini.


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    #35
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    nesf wrote: »
    It's a bannable offence if you've racked up well over a dozen infractions and multiple bans in the forum. It's all about context. The particular party supporters in question being insulted don't actually matter. I don't want to go into specifics here, but this poster's personal record for infractions and bans in six month period is mind boggling. Everything stems from that.

    So if Rebelheart does it its bad. Someone else does it its fine. So you are out to get him? Thats what it looks like.

    Are you actually serious? Seriously?

    Im aghast.


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    #36
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    If it's as much a kangaroo court as the one you've just executed, I'd rather not.

    Bluntly, if you take the piss in a forum and constantly rack up infractions and bans for the same crap over and over again and you're still surprised you get a long ban for doing it still, then really I'm lost for words.


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    #37
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    If it's as much a kangaroo court as the one you've just executed, I'd rather not.

    In the course of the last six months, you've picked up around 18 infractions and two and a half months of bans in the Politics forum, all for virtually the same thing - insulting other posters. Outside Politics, you've picked up multiple other bans and infractions, including permabans, for exactly the same thing. And as Mussolini has pointed out, you can't pick up infractions while you're banned, so those 18 infractions accrue in the 3 and a half months of the last six you weren't banned from Politics - and average of somewhat more than an infraction a week.

    That you're permabanned from AH and not Politics suggests that either AH has a greater political bias than Politics, or that your claims of this being about political bias rather than your persistently insulting behaviour are a transparently thin attempt to make yourself into a martyr for your "political convictions" rather than your apparent unwillingness not to regularly insult other people.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


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    #38
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    nesf wrote: »
    It's a bannable offence if you've racked up well over a dozen infractions and multiple bans in the forum. It's all about context. The particular party supporters in question being insulted don't actually matter. I don't want to go into specifics here, but this poster's personal record for infractions and bans in six month period is mind boggling. Everything stems from that.

    Once again, you're inventing stuff. "Everything", namely the 7-day ban from Politics which I received this evening, stems from a comment which I made in response to a poster. I set up this thread to challenge that - and not to challenge some illusory ban which you've invented. For challenging the decision of one of your mods, you've decided to give me a one-month ban. That is what has just happened, and now you're trying to dress it all up as something which it wasn't. This is an extraordinarily dishonest posting tactic you have, nesf.


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    #39
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So if Rebelheart does it its bad. Someone else does it its fine. So you are out to get him? Thats what it looks like.

    Are you actually serious? Seriously?

    Im aghast.

    No.

    Taking digs at multiple parties, loading insults on them will get you a punishment. Punishment depends on your previous record on the forum. If you've a history of doing this kind of thing and keep doing it you will get harsher and harsher punishments until either you a) stop doing it or b) get yourself permanently banned. Escalating series of punishments are standard practice on Politics.

    I have absolutely no dealings with Rebelheart in the past and was never involved in any of his infractions or bans. This is the first time I've come across him as a Cat Mod and this is purely based on his history of punishments. You could replace Rebelheart with any other poster with the same history and I'd have made the identical call.


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    #40
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So if Rebelheart does it its bad. Someone else does it its fine. So you are out to get him? Thats what it looks like.

    Are you actually serious? Seriously?

    Im aghast.

    No, you're defending the indefensible.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #41
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Once again, you're inventing stuff. "Everything", namely the 7-day ban from Politics which I received this evening, stems from a comment which I made in response to a poster. I set up this thread to challenge that - and not to challenge some illusory ban which you've invented. For challenging the decision of one of your mods, you've decided to give me a one-month ban. That is what has just happened, and now you're trying to dress it all up as something which it wasn't. This is an extraordinarily dishonest posting tactic you have, nesf.

    Nope. After seeing your posting history I'm overruling GuanYin here. Or I should say we are, since Scofflaw agreed to this ban. Your posting history only came to my and Scofflaw's attention because of this thread sure, but I don't lengthen the bans of people who challenge moderate decisions. Christ, we overturned a ban and gave a poster an apology for a moderating decision by a Politics mod earlier today!.


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    #42
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Once again, you're inventing stuff. "Everything", namely the 7-day ban from Politics which I received this evening, stems from a comment which I made in response to a poster. I set up this thread to challenge that - and not to challenge some illusory ban which you've invented. For challenging the decision of one of your mods, you've decided to give me a one-month ban. That is what has just happened, and now you're trying to dress it all up as something which it wasn't. This is an extraordinarily dishonest posting tactic you have, nesf.

    You yourself flagged your posting record in your little spat with donegalfella there, and once we'd looked at it, the question became, indeed, why you hadn't been banned.

    Do you want chapter and verse on your infractions and bans in Politics over the last six months? It's not pretty reading, and if it didn't decisively make a case for lengthening your ban, we wouldn't be lengthening your ban.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


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    #43
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Quite frankly I have to say that this is bollocks. He was infracted for one post. You then come on here after it has been pointed out that it was not an insult, with another post saying the ban was actually for that. On top of that it wouldn't be worthy of a ban if someone else did it.


    For good measure you quadruple the ban.



    Are you having a laugh??

    Seen as I have nothing else to do I am tempted to go through the forum and report every instance of a parties supporters being called deluded. I bet I would see no infractions as a result.


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    #44
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    No, you're defending the indefensible.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    No, what is indefensible is the kangaroo court which you and the other moderator have just carried out and basically punished a poster because he challenged the justice of a moderator's transparently partisan decision. Rather than address that you invented a new reason why I was banned and harped on about stuff entirely unconnected with the real, stated, reason for the initial ban today. Moral of the story: don't challenge a mod's decision, no matter how just your position is.

    You've engaged in online thuggery, no matter how you may choose to dress it up.


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    #45
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Seen as I have nothing else to do I am tempted to go through the forum and report every instance of a parties supporters being called deluded. I bet I would see no infractions as a result.

    You're not listening, it's about context. Find me another poster in Politics with the same record as Rebelheart continuing to do the stuff he got banned for before and I'll happily intervene as a CMod and lengthen the ban regardless of who that person is, their politics or whatever.


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    #46
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    nesf wrote: »
    Nope. After seeing your posting history I'm overruling GuanYin here. Or I should say we are, since Scofflaw agreed to this ban. Your posting history only came to my and Scofflaw's attention because of this thread sure, but I don't lengthen the bans of people who challenge moderate decisions. Christ, we overturned a ban and gave a poster an apology for a moderating decision by a Politics mod earlier today!.
    Clear message for those reading, don't complain.


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    #47
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Quite frankly I have to say that this is bollocks. He was infracted for one post. You then come on here after it has been pointed out that it was not an insult, with another post saying the ban was actually for another. On top of that it wouldn't be worthy of a ban if someone else did it.

    For good measure you quadruple the ban.

    Are you having a laugh??

    Seen as I have nothing else to do I am tempted to go through the forum and report every instance of a parties supporters being called deluded. I bet I would see no infractions as a result.

    No, we're not having a laugh. We had to do exactly this with another poster who had a very long history of infractions and bans for fighting with other members - and it was, as far as I recall, our republican posters who were most vocal in wondering why he wasn't banned a long time ago.

    Calling other posters deluded for supporting another party isn't the issue here, and there's no point in trying to make it so. Rebelheart's record in the Politics forum is the issue here, as far as my and nesf's intervention is concerned. We are, as he said, overruling the original ban - and we're doing it here because this is where Rebelheart chose to put what is actually a DR thread.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #48
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    In all my little spats, issues or whatever, I have never said that this forum and its mod team was biased against republicans.

    Scofflaw, oscar, sceptre can all vouch for that. I have always, ALWAYS, said that I only thought it was perceived as such.


    Looks like I was wrong.


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    #49
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Clear message for those reading, don't complain.

    Clear message for those reading - it's unwise to go to the police to complain that somebody's pinched something from the place you keep the stolen goods.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #50
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    In all my little spats, issues or whatever, I have never said that this forum and its mod team was biased against republicans.

    Scofflaw, oscar, sceptre can all vouch for that. I have always, ALWAYS, said that I only thought it was perceived as such.


    Looks like I was wrong.

    No, you've got the wrong end of the stick now - and I hate to say it, but I think that's because we're talking about a fellow republican here. I don't recall any republican objections being raised when exactly the same thing happened to FlutterinBantam - his record came up as an issue, and on review, he was permabanned, because his record was very similar to Rebelheart's.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #51
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    In all my little spats, issues or whatever, I have never said that this forum and its mod team was biased against republicans.

    Scofflaw, oscar, sceptre can all vouch for that. I have always, ALWAYS, said that I only thought it was perceived as such.


    Looks like I was wrong.

    You think we shouldn't ban him because he supports Sinn Fein?


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    #52
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    No, we're not having a laugh. We had to do exactly this with another poster who had a very long history of infractions and bans for fighting with other members - and it was, as far as I recall, our republican posters who were most vocal in wondering why he wasn't banned a long time ago.
    Certainly wasn't me was it? I think of myself as a fair minded individual, what is happening here is not fair.
    Calling other posters deluded for supporting another party isn't the issue here, and there's no point in trying to make it so
    Are you serious? You just said he was banned for that, if thats not the issue is he being banned for nothing?

    . Rebelheart's record in the Politics forum is the issue here, as far as my and nesf's intervention is concerned. We are, as he said, overruling the original ban - and we're doing it here because this is where Rebelheart chose to put what is actually a DR thread.
    You are overturning the ban for one post, moving it to another which "isnt the issue" and increasing it.

    This is internet thuggery.


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    #53
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    nesf wrote: »
    You're not listening, it's about context. Find me another poster in Politics with the same record as Rebelheart continuing to do the stuff he got banned for before and I'll happily intervene as a CMod and lengthen the ban regardless of who that person is, their politics or whatever.

    Alas, it is you who is clearly, and unequivocally, not listening. You've invented a charge against me wholly because I challenged a moderator's decision by establishing this thread. For that 'crime' you comprehensively avoided questioning that moderator's decision. Instead, you introduced other issues totally unrelated to the stated reason for the initial ban, claimed that they're the reasons why I was banned, and quadrupled my ban term.

    Breathtaking, utterly breathtaking, even in kangaroo court terms.


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    #54
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    nesf wrote: »
    You think we shouldn't ban him because he supports Sinn Fein?
    Pretty sure he doesnt support Sinn fein actually, would be the best of a bad bunch to him.


    I hesitate to say it, but I have to say what I see, you are picking on him because of his political views. And I honestly, I really really did, think you where big enough not to do such a thing. I am really dissapointed. Or maybe, just maybe, you really hate Rebelheart and want him gone, hence you are making up stuff to ban him for, stuff you wouldnt ban others for.


    Either way it aint right, or fair.


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    #55
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Certainly wasn't me was it? I think of myself as a fair minded individual, what is happening here is not fair.

    What would be fair about keeping a poster in the forum who spends their time insulting other people? How is that fair on the other posters?
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Are you serious? You just said he was banned for that, if thats not the issue is he being banned for nothing?

    You are overturning the ban for one post, moving it to another which "isnt the issue" and increasing it.

    This is internet thuggery.

    No, this is being fair on the other users of the forum. GuanYin banned him for a week for the posts given in the earlier part of the thread. The 1 month ban instituted by myself and nesf is based on his long-term posting record, and has nothing to do with GuanYin's ban.

    If someone is extremely disruptive, long term, rude and aggressive to other forum members, what do you propose we should do? Ask them not to? Done. Ban them for it for short periods in the hopes they get the message? Done. Red card the posts they did it in? Done.

    Seriously - what's your suggestion for what should happen next?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #56
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Alas, it is you who is clearly, and unequivocally, not listening. You've invented a charge against me wholly because I challenged a moderator's decision by establishing this thread. For that 'crime' you comprehensively avoided questioning that moderator's decision. Instead, you introduced other issues totally unrelated to the stated reason for the initial ban, claimed that they're the reasons why I was banned, and quadrupled my ban term.

    Breathtaking, utterly breathtaking, even in kangaroo court terms.

    Let me ask you again - do you want me to post the record on the basis of which we're making this decision? It's a serious question - I have no objection to posting it, and I think it speaks for itself, but I'd be happier if I knew you didn't mind either.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


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    #57
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Scofflaw wrote: »



    No, this is being fair on the other users of the forum. GuanYin banned him for a week for the posts given in the earlier part of the thread. The 1 month ban instituted by myself and nesf is based on his long-term posting record, and has nothing to do with GuanYin's ban.

    If someone is extremely disruptive, long term, rude and aggressive to other forum members, what do you propose we should do? Ask them not to? Done. Ban them for it for short periods in the hopes they get the message? Done. Red card the posts they did it in? Done.

    Seriously - what's your suggestion for what should happen next?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw
    No no no, lets get this clear, he was banned for something which wasnt insulting, fair enough, a mistake.


    You then came on and instead of doing what you are supposed to do, you grabbed another post and said that that is what he was banned for. For saying something you would not ban anyone else for. You then increased the ban.

    You are now saying, well RH is a bit of a tit and deserves to be banned, in fact the post which I banned him for doesnt even mater, now lets all ignore how no one else would be banned for it.



    THAT is what you are doing.


    What you should do, is retract the patently unfair bans.


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    #58
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    nesf wrote: »
    You think we shouldn't ban him because he supports Sinn Fein?

    How do you know I support Sinn Féin? Perhaps I just don't like the idea of people ganging up on the party in each and every thread with the same tired, turgid posts? Indeed, if you had sufficient information about my posts, you'd see I voted for an Independent candidate followed by the Green Party in the last election. Your assumptions, from start to finish, are clearly fundamentally inappropriate for anybody who is supposed to act in an impartial manner as a moderator for Boards.ie.


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    #59
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Alas, it is you who is clearly, and unequivocally, not listening. You've invented a charge against me wholly because I challenged a moderator's decision by establishing this thread. For that 'crime' you comprehensively avoided questioning that moderator's decision. Instead, you introduced other issues totally unrelated to the stated reason for the initial ban, claimed that they're the reasons why I was banned, and quadrupled my ban term.

    Breathtaking, utterly breathtaking, even in kangaroo court terms.

    And you assign motives to me that have no basis in fact. I've never in my history as a CMod or a Mod, and it's a long history, punished a user for challenging a decision. Neither has Scofflaw. We have overturned bans. I've even overturned bans that I gave out because I ****ed up and the poster made this clear to me.

    You after 18 infractions and 2.5 months worth of bans over 6 months (which is one of the most infamous records I've seen for a poster) post a post that almost completely consists of digs at other users and expect us to be allowed to do this? At which point after all these moderator interventions did you not cop onto the fact that we require people to attack the post not the poster?

    Simple and straightforward fact of the matter: You are banned purely and simply because you've been taking the piss for a long time and are not learning from your punishments. I couldn't give a **** what your party allegiances are or that you were challenging a moderator decision. All that influences me in this situation is that someone with your record should have gotten this ban weeks ago. You cannot expect to rack up double digit infractions and multiple bans in a forum and there not to be consequences to this.


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    #60
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Pretty sure he doesnt support Sinn fein actually, would be the best of a bad bunch to him.


    I hesitate to say it, but I have to say what I see, you are picking on him because of his political views. And I honestly, I really really did, think you where big enough not to do such a thing. I am really dissapointed. Or maybe, just maybe, you really hate Rebelheart and want him gone, hence you are making up stuff to ban him for, stuff you wouldnt ban others for.


    Either way it aint right, or fair.

    My apologies, I assumed that you were saying he was a Sinn Fein supporter when you called him a republican.


    Actually, step back from this for a moment. If I don't even know which party he supports, how the hell do know him well enough to get to that point that I hate him? When have you ever seen me ban someone for this reason? What history have I with him that shows my dislike or bias against him?

    Would it not be far more likely given the above that I am acting based on face value and that my decision to ban is genuinely only influenced by his track record in the forum?


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    #61
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    No no no, lets get this clear, he was banned for something which wasnt insulting, fair enough, a mistake.

    I have to flat out disagree with you there. I admired your justification for the insulting post, but it was an insulting post, sorry.
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You then came on and instead of doing what you are supposed to do, you grabbed another post and said that that is what he was banned for. For saying something you would not ban anyone else for. You then increased the ban.

    You are now saying, well RH is a bit of a tit and deserves to be banned, in fact the post which I banned him for doesnt even mater, now lets all ignore how no one else would be banned for it.

    Actually, I read the exchange between Rebelheart and donegalfella, and it made me wonder what Rebelheart's posting record was like, because he does often come up in post reports.

    As I said, I can easily quote all the infractions and bans involved, and it really is on the basis of that record - over the last six months! - that we've decided to institute a month's ban with a permaban on next offence. There's no one post that ban results from, and it has nothing to do with the ban that originally started this thread.
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    THAT is what you are doing.

    What you should do, is retract the patently unfair bans.

    Nope, sorry - they're entirely fair, and that's not going to happen. I have absolutely no problem defending this action based on Rebelheart's posting record.

    I'm sorry that you're completely blind to his faults and would rather ascribe the action to bias and prejudice on the part of people you've previously found not to be biased and prejudiced. If someone puts a fair case to me, I've never had a problem changing my mind, and I've never had a problem apologising when I'm in the wrong either - and there, I think, my record, like Rebelheart's, speaks for itself.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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