Lost my belief

strobe

A bit behind schedule, but I said I'd respond so..........

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I think the point being made is that while a person might choose to be a good example of humanity (assuming we can actually agree on what that entails) there is no overarching reason why they should be such an example.

No there is no single over arching reason. My contention is that there are many over arching reasons. Such as the couple I suggested.

It suggests nothing of the sort. That our prisons are full (and then some!) merely suggests that there are at least enough people deemed worthy to fill them. It says nothing about the number of criminals who are smart enough, violent enough or lucky enough to currently not be locked up. It also says nothing about the justice of the sentences handed out.

Speaking of justice, our prisons are often places where it is thin on the ground and criminal activity is common.

It wasn't my contention that all evil is punished and only evil is punished. My comment re: prison, was just to refute Kelly's implication that without a god those who commit evil get away scott free. It was just one example, there, as I am sure you will accept, are others.

I would imagine that the guilt of the criminal is often of cold comfort to the victims. Added to this, I would think that our ability to justify a wrong deed over against the injustice forced upon the victim is a fairly common trait within us all. It is, in other words, easy to convince ourselves the the injured party in some way deserved it or that their pain isn't as bad as they make out or what we feel. In summary, it is the ease we all slip into the justification: "They had it coming!", "What I didn't wasn't all that bad!" and "What about me? I'm suffering too!".

I'm sure that happens. Again, it is not my contention that all evil is punished, just that not all evil doers get away scott free without a god in the picture. Which is what I inferred that Kelly was suggesting.

Indeed, this what Christianity says about us and God. We are the wrongdoers and God is the wronged party.

I'm aware of what Christianity says in this regard. With out meaning to be offensive, I find it damaging to believers and pretty creepy.

That would be up to God. But I believe that this highlights your lack of understanding of what Christianity is about if this is causing you trouble.

You, and others, have said this to me before when I have raised this point. Maybe I do have a lack of understanding of Christianity on this matter. If so, where does it lie? My understanding is that Christianity does not teach a works based salvation. My understanding is that if someone, say a Hindu, for an arbitrary example, was to be a horrible bastard all their lives, were to commit all manner of hideous evil deeds, they were to practice cannibalism, they were to commit rape, they were guilty of arson, they were elected to the Dail, they were to release jazz fusion albums etc, but then at 99 years of age they were to have an epiphany and were to accept Jesus as their personal saviour, ask Him to forgive their sins, and vow to change their ways, forge a personal relationship with Christ and live a Christian life, then die 2 seconds later.....they are in the clear, soul wise. Is any of this wrong? Which parts?

I don't believe that anyone has suggested otherwise. Of course, the inverse of your neighbour is any long-lived dictator or thug who did incalculable harm got away with it. Unfortunately there are plenty of them out there.

This is true, obviously. And?

Well, that is your opinion. But not everyone will agree. They may even point out that what you are talking about are often two mutually exclusive goals.

This is also true. That it is my opinion. That not everyone will agree with my opinion. And (that's twice I've capatilised And....ahh well, I'm claiming literary license on this one) that the two can sometimes be mutually exclusive, not that they have to be. And?

The Mad Hatter

strobe wrote: »

My understanding is that if someone, say a Hindu, for an arbitrary example, was to be a horrible bastard all their lives, were to commit all manner of hideous evil deeds, they were to practice cannibalism, they were to commit rape, they were guilty of arson, they were elected to the Dail, they were to release jazz fusion albums etc, but then at 99 years of age they were to have an epiphany and were to accept Jesus as their personal saviour, ask Him to forgive their sins, and vow to change their ways, forge a personal relationship with Christ and live a Christian life, then die 2 seconds later.....they are in the clear, soul wise. Is any of this wrong? Which parts?

No just god could forgive Indian jazz fusion.