Clampers

lachin

Hi all,

I was clamped recently when I was parked on double yellow lines in a gated housing complex. Yes I know I shouldnt have been but my question is, the clamping notice said that the release fee is €120 but I was charged €125 as I used my laser card to pay. I appealed this as I thought that it was illegal to charge more for a service than is advertised...am I wrong in this? There was no mention of laser card fee on the notice and of course the lovely clamping company have rejected my appeal!! Any advice appreciated, thanks.

dudara

Were you notified of the additional €5 fee when you rang up the pay the fine?

lachin

No but in they informed me after I appealed that it was stated on the white clamping sticker they put on my window...which it was....so I guess theyre in the right?

Paulw

lachin wrote: »

I appealed this as I thought that it was illegal to charge more for a service than is advertised...am I wrong in this?

They are not advertising a service. The notice is simply a warning.

The note posted on your car window should detail the release fee.

So, in this case, you have no claim for the "extra" €5.

dudara

lachin wrote: »

No but in they informed me after I appealed that it was stated on the white clamping sticker they put on my window...which it was....so I guess theyre in the right?

If the additional fee was described on the sticker, then yes, you were notified in advance.

BrianD

Here's an interesting point and if you have the time and energy to pursue it.

Double yellow lines have absolutely no meaning on private property. They only have a "meaning" when they are on a public highway.

Unless the car park has stated conditions that normal road signage and markings have the same meaning on their property then you can claim you were parked correctly.

If the clamping notice had €120 on it then you should have paid that only.

Cabaal

They gave the information so sadly hard luck, of course if you have lots of time you could try pursue it as BrianD has suggested....provided it was private property.

Idleater

Cabaal wrote: »

They gave the information so sadly hard luck, of course if you have lots of time you could try pursue it as BrianD has suggested....provided it was private property.

I thought the way they (clampers/facilities management) got away with that is that the signs say to park in "designated spaces only" or some such. I.e. yes the lines are meaningless, but the clamping/release still applies.

lachin

Idleater wrote: »

I thought the way they (clampers/facilities management) got away with that is that the signs say to park in "designated spaces only" or some such. I.e. yes the lines are meaningless, but the clamping/release still applies.

Is it pointless then pushing ahead with this, ie taking legal advice

Paulw

lachin wrote: »

Is it pointless then pushing ahead with this, ie taking legal advice

Fairly pointless for €5. Legal advice alone will cost you a lot more than that.

rubadub

Is there any limits on fees, e.g. could they say the release fee is €10,000

Paulw

rubadub wrote: »

Is there any limits on fees, e.g. could they say the release fee is €10,000

Nope, no limit. As long as they make it clear at the time (usually done with the notice put on your window).

Idleater

lachin wrote: »

Is it pointless then pushing ahead with this, ie taking legal advice

You have to check the signs that are in the area where the clamping took place. Each management company negotiates the contract with the clamping company. The signs state the release fee that should be applied, and the notice on the window should reflect that. If it doesn't or if the "designated spaces only" was replaced with "permit holders" and no reference to spaces you could query the whole fine if you were lucky.

Paulw

Idleater wrote: »

You have to check the signs that are in the area where the clamping took place. Each management company negotiates the contract with the clamping company. The signs state the release fee that should be applied, and the notice on the window should reflect that. If it doesn't or if the "designated spaces only" was replaced with "permit holders" and no reference to spaces you could query the whole fine if you were lucky.

The OP already queried the fine, and his appeal was rejected.

Matt Bauer

Have you tried to go to your bank? Charging €5 on top of €120 is disgraceful give that it only costs about 16 cents to process a LASER card, plus you don't need to deal with cash.

slimjimmc

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Have you tried to go to your bank? Charging €5 on top of €120 is disgraceful give that it only costs about 16 cents to process a LASER card, plus you don't need to deal with cash.

What can the bank do? I doubt they're imposing the €5 charge, more like €0.16 for the bank fees and €4.84 for the clampers' "expenses". Disgraceful and unfair it is, but I don't think anything can be done to prevent a business charging a fee for alternative payment methods which don't use legal tender (paper cash & coins).

Matt Bauer

If it were a credit card or a direct debit, it would be more clearcut. However, the bank may be able to reverse the charge from the Laser card. It's worth a shot anyhow.

ShooterSF

I know this doesn't help the OP but I always thought you would have the tax man breathing down your neck if, as a business, you incentivised cash transactions!

lachin

Guys I spoke to my solicitor yesterday about this and forwarded him on all correspondance between myself and the company. He maintained I had a case, on which specific grounds I'm unsure as it was a brief conversation but he told me to re- appeal yet again before I do anything else. I will do so but I have to contact him again for a more detailed explanation as to what grounds I do appeal. Will keep you all updated, out of interest, even if it comes to nothing.

irlrobins

Out of interest, how much will the solicitors fees cost you in comparison to the clamping fee?

And it sounds like the only thing you can appeal is the additional charge as you were (under the apartment complex's parking rules) illegally parked. All this for the sake of a fiver??

rubberdiddies

Is it actually legal for a private clamping company to clamp someones car on private property? If this were to happen and you asked them to remove it without paying, can the guards not become involved? After all your car is effectively being held hostage

I'd love to know the actual law on this

So if someone parked in my driveway and I clamped them and demanded a release fee (and say I had a sign up saying this would happen), would I be allowed to keep the car there indefinitely if the person didn't pay up. Or would I be arrested for theft?

Iwannahurl

Citizens Information say that "private car parks are not regulated by the Government in any way".

This Irish Times article refers to a "major loophole" in the law which allows clamping companies to target people on private property.

rubberdiddies

Thanks
I realise it's unregulated and I recall it getting headlines earlier this year when the uk banned private clamping but what I'm wondering is if you don't pay a private clamping fee do they still have to release it. Or can they keep your car indefinitely?

irlrobins

Probably leave clamp on and after a period of time tow the car. That's what they do in my complex.

knuth

lachin wrote: »

Guys I spoke to my solicitor yesterday about this and forwarded him on all correspondance between myself and the company. He maintained I had a case, on which specific grounds I'm unsure as it was a brief conversation but he told me to re- appeal yet again before I do anything else. I will do so but I have to contact him again for a more detailed explanation as to what grounds I do appeal. Will keep you all updated, out of interest, even if it comes to nothing.

"Hey - it was worth a shot"

"Now, wheres my payment for my soliciting fees"

:rolleyes:

rubberdiddies

irlrobins wrote: »

Probably leave clamp on and after a period of time tow the car. That's what they do in my complex.

Yeah I've heard of that happening.
I guess my point is are they allowed to do that? Is that not theft? Surely if you demand your car back they have to give it back to you. This is what I'd love to find out. Maybe it's a grey area like so many other things in Irish law.

I guess I'm wondering if the OP had just demanded that they take off the clamp, would they legally have had to? Or are thy entitled to hold a circa €10000 item to ransom?

lachin

I did demand that they remove the clamp but they refused and went to move off. Is it not against the law to interfere with private property??

P. Breathnach

lachin wrote: »

... Is it not against the law to interfere with private property??

That argument cuts both ways: you parked on private property.

daithi2011

We've had clamping issues in an apartment complex. If you read other threads you'll realize that clamping companies have no power at all if you remove the clamp yourself. They just trade on your fear of punishment for standing up for yourself.

So just take the clamp off with a bolt cutter/angle grinder yourself.

Just send the clampers a letter and tell them they can have the clamp back, but you are charging administration fee of €400 which doubles every 2 days they dont get back to you.

You can make up anything you want to charge them for - as they do.
The point is that they can either take you to court for the clamp back or not. Its not worth it to them, so they wont.

Basically all you are doing is holding the clamp they left on your car until they pay for it, same as they hold cars they clamp until you pay for it.

You are getting around them going after you for breaking their clamp, by making it uneconomical for them to get it back.

This was tried and tested by several people I know over the past few years.
I did it myself recently too, and will never pay a clamping fine again. They will never take you to court, because if they lose, everyone will know about this and will always just cut off the clamps, because it has been tested in the courts, that the clampers can do nothing. I think I might start a clamp removal company

Only do this with private clampers though, eg those on private property, apartment complexes etc. The others have the law behind them. And dont do it where you work. You boss might not be impressed.

Yawns

I hate clampers! Never mind the guy doing his job, but why do the office crowd always get snotty and be as rude as possible.


I rang and appealed a clamping decision only weeks ago. They told me tough look. I said I wasn't paying as I had just moved into an apartment and hadn't received the permits yet. They knew this as they tried to clamp me the day I moved in so I explained my situation and off they went. As soon as the snow cleared they came and clamped me. I was there about 3 weeks at this stage.

Now I knew they didn't have pics of the windscreen when they clamped me so I claimed I had a permit in the window. I put a neighbour's visit pass in and called them out. Guy refused to take it off after the head office agreed over phone. I re-rang head office and they said they do have pics now of no permit. I demanded pictures be sent to me and the guy got snotty and asked if I was going to pay. I said send me the pics and I will. I never got any pictures.

I got miffed and bought an angle grinder. I'd rather spend the €50 on angle grinder, 2 spare dics, extension cord, gloves and goggles than the €120 per day.

Unfortunately I went out an hour later to cut it off and it was already removed. I say unfortunately cos I was looking forward to the guy coming to check the car and seeing no clamp

Yawns

Indeed Daithi2011, I will never pay a clamper ever. Never have and never will. I park correctly for a start anyway. In my case, property management took a holiday and never bothered to send me a permit before he left so I got clamped in my own numbered spot.

I have permits now but I have given a new neighbour my visitor pass because I don't want them to go through the same hassle. I don't need the pass. If a visitor of mine gets clamped I have the angle grinder ready. My only problem is if a clamper does come up whilst I am cutting it off I would be tempted to chuck it through his windscreen

I have to point out that when they tried to clamp me when I first moved in, his face was full of glee and I never seen any1 jumping out of a van that quick before. He didn't clamp tho. My first words were "you have in your **** if you think your clamping that pal" then he listened and agreed no to clamp.