Landlord (letting agent) threatening to change locks

gaeilgegrinds1 · 07-01-2011 12:43am

He can't change the locks but he can most definately pursue ye for the money.

Shelflife · 07-01-2011 12:57am

PRTB are a joke of an organisation. It took them three months to lodge a chq that i sent them in early Oct. ffs how hard is it to open a letter and lodge a chq?

I cant see how the landlord is a bully as the op is in breach of the lease from the day that the op missed a payment.

Total joke that someone expects help when they are screwing over an innocent party.

BostonB · 07-01-2011 1:54am

Some of those determinations are interesting. In some cases the landlord is owed tens of thousands of pounds.

reprazant · 07-01-2011 10:43am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Your landlord is a bully, and is acting criminally. Do not let him walk over you!

She has not paid her last rent and has no intention of paying this months rent.

She is acting criminally.

Raskolnikov · 07-01-2011 11:49am

reprazant wrote: »

She has not paid her last rent and has no intention of paying this months rent.

She is acting criminally.

Where has she said that she never intends to pay back the arrears? While she currently can't pay the arrears, I am sure that she would be willing to leave the property with a proper period of notice and a reasonable installment plan to clear the arrears. That is not unreasonable in this situation and would be a typical judgment that a landlord would pass down in the courts.

BostonB · 07-01-2011 12:15pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Where has she said that she never intends to pay back the arrears? While she currently can't pay the arrears, I am sure that she would be willing to leave the property with a proper period of notice and a reasonable installment plan to clear the arrears. That is not unreasonable in this situation and would be a typical judgment that a landlord would pass down in the courts.

I assume theres a typo in that as a LL doesn't pass judgements. I assume you meant would be passed.

Have you any data that indicated most tenants in arrears pay them.

How is non payment enforced. Have you data on that?

Raskolnikov · 07-01-2011 12:58pm

BostonB wrote: »

I assume theres a typo in that as a LL doesn't pass judgements. I assume you meant would be passed.

Have you any data that indicated most tenants in arrears pay them.

How is non payment enforced. Have you data on that?

I am only going by the court reports that I read on the Indo on Tuesday's. I would imagine that if a tenant in arrears fails to abide by a court ordered repayment, then they would face prosecution, and/or jail time.

OS119 · 07-01-2011 1:01pm

reprazant wrote: »

She has not paid her last rent and has no intention of paying this months rent.

She is acting criminally.

she is not acting criminally, she is acting badly - and while she may well have frivolous expenses, few people will go hungry in order to pay rent/mortage.

there is a well publicised structure of laws governing the rental sector, and anyone thinking of establishing a business in the sector needs to understand them before deciding to go ahead. if the LL didn't like the look of those laws they should not have entered the sector and placed their investment elsewhere - if they didn't bother doing any kind of research into the sector or the normal due dilligence before investing, then they deserve everything they get.

if you set up an aircraft maintainence company without knowing the legislation surrounding the licences, qualifications and procedures required to complete aircraft maintainence, or set up a firearms importation company without having the faintest understanding of the law surrounding such matters, then people would laugh at you in the street for being potentially the most stupid person ever to breathe air - personally, as a LL myself, i feel no differently towards LL's who believe that owning a rental property is a licence to print money with no requirements other than to pay their mortgage and buy them a BMW M5.

it isn't, the sector has a number of well publicised, very deep pitfalls and a legal structure that can easily cost a LL a huge amount of money and hassle - if you don't like the risks, go elsewhere. if you think they don't apply to you, unlucky.

BostonB · 07-01-2011 1:21pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I am only going by the court reports that I read on the Indo on Tuesday's. I would imagine that if a tenant in arrears fails to abide by a court ordered repayment, then they would face prosecution, and/or jail time.

If you made it up, it would be more likely to be accurate than the indo. So basically we have no information if any of the process works because we have no credible information about who (LL or tenant) got their money or not.

Raskolnikov · 07-01-2011 2:04pm

BostonB wrote: »

If you made it up, it would be more likely to be accurate than the indo. So basically we have no information if any of the process works because we have no credible information about who (LL or tenant) got their money or not.

Bank records and witnesses?

All I am saying is that people should at least try to come to an arrangement before going to the courts as the only winner in that circumstance will be the legal profession.

D3PO · 07-01-2011 4:46pm

OS119 wrote: »

.

there is a well publicised structure of laws governing the rental sector, and anyone thinking of establishing a business in the sector needs to understand them before deciding to go ahead. .

I stopped reading after this. There is a well publicised lack of proper legislation governing the rental sector both from a tennant & landlords perspective.

As for landlords knowing and understanding the current situation before deciding to go ahead. If anybody was to look and act on the basis of the laws there would be zero landlords in this country.

Because the fact of the matter is the tennant can play the system in regards to eviction. In theory you could have tennant after tennant never pay you rent. Anybody knowing the laws should in theory never rent because of the possible pitfalls.

So intimating that a knowledge of the laws makes for a better landlord and thats more or less what your trying to say is quite frankly Bullcrap.

OS119 · 07-01-2011 5:11pm

D3PO wrote: »

So intimating that a knowledge of the laws makes for a better landlord and thats more or less what your trying to say is quite frankly Bullcrap.

whining like a smacked toddler. if you don't like the rules don't play.

if you can't be bothered to learn the rules before you play - and then make an informed decision about whether you want to play - then you're an idiot who deserves to be ripped off at every turn.

LifesgoodwithLG · 07-01-2011 11:42pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Where has she said that she never intends to pay back the arrears? While she currently can't pay the arrears, I am sure that she would be willing to leave the property with a proper period of notice and a reasonable installment plan to clear the arrears. That is not unreasonable in this situation and would be a typical judgment that a landlord would pass down in the courts.

C'mon what do you honestly think that the chances are of the OP paying back the monies in arrears ? Really can't see it happening. The Landlord still has to pay their mortgage in a timely manner however the OP will pay them back in whatever time they deem fit ??? At best it is optimistic to say that they will pay their new landlord. I am a tenant as opposed to a LL however the LL seems to be the only one thats getting shafted in this instance

BostonB · 08-01-2011 12:00am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Bank records and witnesses?

All I am saying is that people should at least try to come to an arrangement before going to the courts as the only winner in that circumstance will be the legal profession.

And we don't have access to that information. So like I said we have no idea if the process works in terms of getting your (tenant or landlord) money back.

OS119 wrote: »

whining like a smacked toddler. if you don't like the rules don't play.

if you can't be bothered to learn the rules before you play - and then make an informed decision about whether you want to play - then you're an idiot who deserves to be ripped off at every turn.

You can't make an informed decision. We have no idea how long the process takes, or do people get their money back at the end. PRTB could follow judgements up and see what happened then publish some stats.

athtrasna · 08-01-2011 2:14am

Has the OP been scared off? Didn't get the response they were expecting is my guess, only two posts on boards and both on page 1 of the thread.

OS119 · 08-01-2011 8:35pm

BostonB wrote: »

And we don't have access to that information. So like I said we have no idea if the process works in terms of getting your (tenant or landlord) money back...

...You can't make an informed decision. We have no idea how long the process takes, or do people get their money back at the end. PRTB could follow judgements up and see what happened then publish some stats.

actually you can make an informed decision - the law/PRTB guidence is very clear about the circumstances in which, and the procedure for, evicting a tenant, its also very clear what a tenants rights are, and if you speak to people in your social/work circle - which will almost certainly contain both LL's and tenants - you'd be hard pushed to find any examples in which a LL has successfully persued a former tenant for monies owed.

tenants face no real sanctions almost regardless of what they do or do not do, LL's must stay well within the letter of the law in order to get any of their already limited rights safeguarded by the law, and even if at the end of a horribly convoluted, expensive and drawn out legal procedure the LL does manage to evict a problem tenant he stands almost no chance of getting damages or rent arrears out of them however resloutely he pursues them, or attempts to pursue them, through the civil courts.

those are the realities of life for a LL. if you can deal with that commercial reality, and operate the property/finance market to your advantage, then there is money to be made - but if you don't like those odds you shouldn't play.

BostonB · 08-01-2011 9:02pm

You've obviously not read the decisions of the PRTB on their website. The costs of doing illegal eviction is often far less expensive than than operating within the rules as you suggest. Being fined 2~12k is a nothing to losing 20~30k in rent + what ever damages and add to that the legal costs. Thats just from what I've read on the PRTB site. Losing that kinda money could mean the LL is running at loss for a few years to recoup that. Thats assuming they don't have a mortgage. Again you and I , and everyone else is assuming that a few people you know is representative of the wider market. Because theres no stats to prove otherwise. Assumption is not being informed.

delllat · 08-01-2011 10:05pm

BostonB wrote: »

And we don't have access to that information. So like I said we have no idea if the process works in terms of getting your (tenant or landlord) money back.

You can't make an informed decision. We have no idea how long the process takes, or do people get their money back at the end. PRTB could follow judgements up and see what happened then publish some stats.

in general if someone has no assetts its the blood out of a stone thing all over again,if its a tenant on benefits all they have to say is theyre broke and cant pay

i doubt the majority of backdated owed rent ever gets paid after a tenant is evicted whether tenants are on benefits or not

BostonB · 08-01-2011 10:08pm

I agree with you. But I've no stats to back that up.

delllat · 08-01-2011 10:39pm

BostonB wrote: »

I agree with you. But I've no stats to back that up.

its up to lanlords to choose tenants carefully ,get references,hefty deposit and 1 if not 2 months rent in advance

i think its madness that landlords are giving the keys to young unemployed people without deposits or rent on the promise of a backdated R.A cheque a few months down the line

the system is wide open to abuse at the best of times ,i would leave a property empty before id give it away to someone who was a high risk candidate and also had no money

OS119 · 08-01-2011 10:55pm

BostonB wrote: »

You've obviously not read the decisions of the PRTB on their website. The costs of doing illegal eviction is often far less expensive than than operating within the rules as you suggest. Being fined 2~12k is a nothing to losing 20~30k in rent + what ever damages and add to that the legal costs. Thats just from what I've read on the PRTB site. Losing that kinda money could mean the LL is running at loss for a few years to recoup that. Thats assuming they don't have a mortgage. Again you and I , and everyone else is assuming that a few people you know is representative of the wider market. Because theres no stats to prove otherwise. Assumption is not being informed.

bizaarely enough, i've never considered a business model that requires me to operate outside the law - i operate my business within the law or i don't operate my business.

i've been tenant and landord for nearly 20 years - many of my friends and colleagues have similar experience - in my younger days i've legged it from flats owing hundreds in unpaid rent (usually the classic of not paying the last months rent and abandoning the deposit), and in my more recent past had tenants who've done the same or far worse. i have, in that 20 years, known of a single example of a tenant being successfully chased for unpaid rent and damages - and the LL in that case was a bit off a nutter who spent far more time and money chasing the tenant than he got in return. that kind of experience allows me to make decisions about my business without worrying about other peoples statistics - if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, its a duck.

BostonB · 09-01-2011 12:25am

You might not have considered it, but its obvious if you spend any time looking at PRTB decisions, that its very common. Its also pretty obvious that landlords who don't do it, lose thousands, if not tens of thousands. Mind you some who do it also get fined, some times a little sometimes a lot. Its a bit of a lottery.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1109/housing.html

cancercowboy · 09-01-2011 2:03am

First off, call Threshold and then the PRTB. What your Landlord's agent is threatening to do is illegal and I suspect is just trying to scare you... but that in mind many people have been illegally evicted over the last two years. Always take any threat seriously.

If you do not pay your rent a notice of termination may be served, only if the rent due has still not been paid 14 days after you get written notification from your landlord of the amount owing.

If you don't pay the back rent in those 14 days he can serve you with a notice to leave. That notice perriod depends on how long you've lived there. Under months is 28 days, over months is 35 days and that notice perriod is extended the longer you've stayed there.

These notices can't be verbal, they have to be in writing.

If your landlord locks you out or physically evicts you, you may be able to apply for an injunction to force the landlord to let you back into the property or you may apply to the PRTB to do so on your behalf. Similarly if your landlord cuts off water, gas or electricity, you may be able to take legal action to restore the supply. In either case, this is a big step and you should get legal advice and assistance before you proceed. Your landlord cannot remove your possessions from your flat or house without a court order. If your landlord is going to take you to court, you should get advice about your situation from Threshold, a Citizens Information Centre or a solicitor.

Personally, I've been in your situation before. In my case Threshold rang up my Landlord and gave him the business over the phone. I was let back into the apartment the next day.

This said, when you can afford to you should pay what you owe and you will be responsible for the rent owed, the Landlord can go to the PRTB and they can put a judgement against you for the owed rent.

When dealing with Landlords and agents they will try to bully and intimidate you. Be calm, confident and professional. If they yell or get rude, hang up the phone. Just because you're going through some hard times doesn't mean you're not entitled to respect, it doesn't make you less of a person. No one has the right to speak down to you. When they get that you know your rights and that you can't be bullied they will leave you alone and do things by the book.

convert · 09-01-2011 5:37pm

While your landlord or their agent is not legally entitled to change the locks to the premises, I can't believe you have the audacity to stay in somebody else's house and refuse point blank to pay rent. You are working, and your husband has got some work at the moment, so even if you paid a little of your rent each month your landlord would probably be a little happier than they are in the current situation, especially if you sat down with them and agreed a payment plan. Moreover, how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

You have not paid your rent, therefore your landlord is entitled to give you 14 days (written) notice to pay your rent. If you have not paid what you owe by then, they will serve you with notice to vacate the property. However, if I was you I wouldn't let it come to that. Just tell the estate agent that you'll be leaving in X number of days and move in with your mother as you had planned.

And just to clarify, I am not, nor ever have been a landlord. I am just a responsible tenant who will always pay my rent and bills before living off the remainder of what little money I have left over.

Shelflife · 09-01-2011 5:49pm

Quick question, if the esb cut off the power due to the tenant not having paid the bills, is the LL obliged to get it reinstated for the tenant.

cheers.

Jo King · 09-01-2011 6:25pm

Shelflife wrote: »

Quick question, if the esb cut off the power due to the tenant not having paid the bills, is the LL obliged to get it reinstated for the tenant.

cheers.

no! the ESB service was made available to the tenant. if the tenant caused its loss, then the tenant must pay for restoration.

amdublin · 10-01-2011 12:14am

God help their next landlord

Dempo1 · 10-01-2011 12:38am

123tracey123 wrote: »

Ok, we didnt pay the rent in for december because we couldnt afford it now Jans is due. We (me my husband and 3 yr old son) have decided we need to move out. we told our letting agent today as he texted us about Jans paymnt we advised him that we couldnt afford it any longer & we are moving out and will be out by nxt friday (15th) he is now advising if we dont pay the rent tomoro he will be around with a lock smith tomorrow at lunch (we already advised him we would be at work) We have not had any written notice from him which we advised him but he advised he sent us a text in Dec looking for payment and as far as he is concerned that was his notice.. I just want to know where we stand here I am terrified that I will come home from work tomorrow and the locks are changed my friend is minding our child who is 3 in the house tomorrow as my husband has a few days work !!!

I too am sorry for your troubles however it is of critical importance one of you is in residence at all times until such time your in a position to move out. This will diminish the chances of the letting agent/Landlord illegally change locks. Such action would in fact be classified as illegal trespass and if any attempt is made to change the locks call the Gardai immediately. The landlord is required by law to seek an eviction order through the courts.

cancercowboy · 10-01-2011 4:12pm

amdublin wrote: »

God help their next landlord

We don't know what her personal circumstances are, we don't know what's going on. We have a very limited picture here. I would remind people passing judgement here that those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The reality is, shelter, along with food, education and health care are basic human rights and we should have working systems in place that support that.

If someone can't pay their rent, for whatever reason, the the tenant shouldn't be without shelter and the landlord shouldn't be without payment. The Rent Supplement scheme is broken... the fact that a landlord can reject a tenant on the basis that they are on rent allowance is evidence of how flawed it is.

delllat · 10-01-2011 5:24pm

cancercowboy wrote: »

the fact that a landlord can reject a tenant on the basis that they are on rent allowance is evidence of how flawed it is.

the fact that a tenant can pretend to be an angel until they get the keys and then destroy the house /not pay rent / refuse to move etc is even more flawed because there is no protection for a landlord

Landlord (letting agent) threatening to change locks

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