Windows on ARM! / Windows on mobile phones

partyatmygaff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12124887

Microsoft has shown a full version of Windows running on chips usually found in mobile phones.
The desktop version of Windows was demonstrated working with three processors built around chips designed by UK firm Arm.
The demonstration is significant because before now Windows has been closely connected with Intel chips.
Microsoft would not be drawn on when the first products using these chips would go on sale.
As well as running Windows, Microsoft also showed the work it was doing to get applications such as Word, Powerpoint and Internet Explorer running on Arm chips.
Microsoft was doing the work to get a full version of Windows running on mobile chips in a bid to end the compromises people typically have to make when using portable gadgets, said Steven Sinofsky, president of the Windows and Windows Live division during the demo.
Also, he said, turning to Arm designed chips should mean lower power consumption and much improved battery life for future gadgets.
About 80% of all mobiles, including Apple's iPhone4, are built around chips made from Arm designs.
'Next Windows generation' During its demonstration, Microsoft showed Windows running natively on chips made by Qualcomm, Texas Instruments and Nvidia.
Microsoft has a mobile version of Windows, known as Windows Phone 7, that already runs on Arm-designed chips. But, said Mr Sinofsky, Windows Phone 7 was aimed at smaller devices and the full version would be for larger tablets, slates and netbooks.
Mr Sinofsky would not say which version of Windows was running on its demonstration devices. He would only say that it was the "next generation of Windows". Many took this to be a reference to Windows 8, which is due in 2012 and is expected to support multi-touch interfaces - capabilities missing from Windows 7.
He also refused to speculate when the first Arm-powered devices running the full version of Windows would appear.
"We've got the chip work done and now we start talking to partners about what kind of devices we can make," he said.
Microsoft was also continuing its work with long-time partners Intel and AMD to get Windows working on the low-power processors they were producing.
The demonstration came during a briefing at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas held prior to the formal opening of the show. Microsoft boss Steve Ballmer will give the opening keynote and is expected to expand on the firm's plans for Windows on Arm.

Windows is going to multiplatform (Again) by moving to x86, x64 and ARM. The last multiplatform of Windows that I remember is NT4 with support for Power PC. Personally i'd love to have a full version of Windows running on ARM. A full Windows handheld device with ARM efficiency would be amazing.

Naikon

partyatmygaff wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12124887


Windows is going to multiplatform (Again) by moving to x86, x64 and ARM. The last multiplatform of Windows that I remember is NT4 with support for Power PC. Personally i'd love to have a full version of Windows running on ARM. A full Windows handheld device with ARM efficiency would be amazing.

Call me when it runs on the likes of: IA-32, x86-64, PowerPC, SPARC, DEC Alpha, ARM, MIPS, PA-RISC, S390, IA-64

It's no Debian:pac: http://www.debian.org/ports/
</Linux troll>

One question though, why is this being aimed at the desktop? ARM is not the type of platform you would expect your x86 drivers to be ported over for. Still, it's good Microsoft is considering more
than just the bog standard x86 platform. Increased competition is the most likely cause for this shift. Last time I heard of PowerPC Windows, was the NT releases back in the mid 1990's. Long time ago.

Odaise Gaelach

Naikon wrote: »

One question though, why is this being aimed at the desktop? ARM is not the type of platform you would expect your x86 drivers to be ported over for.

I think ultimately they're going to develop a touchscreen-friendly UI for tablet PCs. What they demonstrated at CES was a set of large test SoC boards and the next version of Windows with the 7 UI.

Naikon

Odaise Gaelach wrote: »

I think ultimately they're going to develop a touchscreen-friendly UI for tablet PCs. What they demonstrated at CES was a set of large test SoC boards and the next version of Windows with the 7 UI.

This is good news for the consumer so. It's pretty interesting that they are moving away from just using ARM as a testbed for smartphones, to fully fledged tablets and whatnot. Apple might have a bit of a worry on their shoulders dues to this!

partyatmygaff

As popular as Apple may be there's no denying that many people would prefer a full Windows environment to an interface like the iPad.

Odaise Gaelach

partyatmygaff wrote: »

As popular as Apple may be there's no denying that many people would prefer a full Windows environment to an interface like the iPad.

Myself included.

My major concern is that software that's running on x86 will either have to be re-compiled for ARM, or use some special Windows libraries that allow it (similar I suppose to running 32-bit software on a 64-bit OS). The former's going to be a headache for developers and publishers, who will have to accomodate the two architectures in development and selling the software. The latter might affect performance, which may make-or-break the whole thing.

AlmightyCushion

Odaise Gaelach wrote: »

Myself included.

My major concern is that software that's running on x86 will either have to be re-compiled for ARM, or use some special Windows libraries that allow it (similar I suppose to running 32-bit software on a 64-bit OS). The former's going to be a headache for developers and publishers, who will have to accomodate the two architectures in development and selling the software. The latter might affect performance, which may make-or-break the whole thing.

This is a potential concern but given the release of WP7 I can see .net take up increasing quite a bit. Anything done in .net should work across windows x86, WP7 and windows ARM with relative ease.

Plus, I imagine X86 will still rule in the vast majority of laptops and desktops and arm will be bigger in the tablet/netbook area (or atleast at first). On a netbook/tablet I think a lot of people would be happy with a smaller range of applications than they would be on a proper laptop. As long as skype, decent browser (I'd prefer to have chrome myself), decent media player that handles most codecs, office, instant messenging, email client, pdf reader and some downlaoding apps (utorrent etc) are on there I can see it keeping most people happy. I don't have much more than that on my laptop that I'm using now and anything I do have I probably wouldn't care if it wasn't on a tablet or netbook. Saying that I can see microsoft being extremely friendly with developers and the WP7 app store is already over 5,000 so while I do have my concerns I wouldn't be overly worried.

partyatmygaff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKc_XGuvNIk

That does look very very promising.

AlmightyCushion

partyatmygaff wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKc_XGuvNIk

That does look very very promising.

That is impressive. The ironman trailer didn't blow me away as much as it was probably meant to simply because I know tegra can handle HD video. What did surprise me is how well that build of windows runs on it. For something that is at an early stage of development (I assume so anyways) everything is smooth and quick. I'd expect it to run like a fecking dog.

Odaise Gaelach

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This is a potential concern but given the release of WP7 I can see .net take up increasing quite a bit. Anything done in .net should work across windows x86, WP7 and windows ARM with relative ease.

Plus, I imagine X86 will still rule in the vast majority of laptops and desktops and arm will be bigger in the tablet/netbook area (or atleast at first). On a netbook/tablet I think a lot of people would be happy with a smaller range of applications than they would be on a proper laptop. As long as skype, decent browser (I'd prefer to have chrome myself), decent media player that handles most codecs, office, instant messenging, email client, pdf reader and some downlaoding apps (utorrent etc) are on there I can see it keeping most people happy. I don't have much more than that on my laptop that I'm using now and anything I do have I probably wouldn't care if it wasn't on a tablet or netbook. Saying that I can see microsoft being extremely friendly with developers and the WP7 app store is already over 5,000 so while I do have my concerns I wouldn't be overly worried.

Absolutely. I have a lot of love for .NET, and I hope it gets more exposure. If Microsoft open a Marketplace for Windows 8 similar to what Apple (and Google somewhat) have done then it'll be an absolute joy.

I just hope that the transition will be smooth and simple. But if they work as closely with developers as they have before then it should be a (relatively!) painless experience.

AlmightyCushion

Odaise Gaelach wrote: »

Absolutely. I have a lot of love for .NET, and I hope it gets more exposure. If Microsoft open a Marketplace for Windows 8 similar to what Apple (and Google somewhat) have done then it'll be an absolute joy.

I just hope that the transition will be smooth and simple. But if they work as closely with developers as they have before then it should be a (relatively!) painless experience.

.Net is great. Currently designing a game for WP7 using xna as part of my final year project. Never designed a game before but I can see myself making a few more in XNA.

Now that I think about it I remember someone high up at microsoft (can't remember who now) saying that silverlight was taking a different direction from what it was originally meant to. Maybe he meant that the focus was shifting away from solely or mostly web based development to a much greater importance in windows applications.