Has Roy Keane Been Sacked?

L'prof

I think I actually dislike Keane more because of these stupid circular arguments than I do for anything he's ever done or said as a player or manager.

fkt

major bill

L'prof wrote: »

I think I actually dislike Keane more because of these stupid circular arguments than I do for anything he's ever done or said as a player or manager.

+1

i dont mind the man its the hype in this countries media and the constant reapperance of the saipan fiasco that turns me off the whole roy keane image.

kryogen

Still nothing on this on SSN!

And just so i know, how can you hate Keane for things that are out of his control? i.e stupid threads on boards

Warper

kryogen wrote: »

cham·pi·on
n.
1. One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.
2. One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner
3. An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person
4. One who fights; a warrior.

Honours

Barclays Premier League : 1994, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003 (Manchester United);
Carling Cup : 2006 (Manchester United);
CIS Insurance Cup : 2006 (Celtic);
Clydesdale Bank Premier League : 2006 (Celtic);
Community Shield : 1994, 1995, 1997, 1998, 2004 (Manchester United);
FA Cup : 1994, 1996, 1999, 2004 (Manchester United);
FIFA Club World Cup : 2000 (Manchester United);
UEFA Champions League : 1999 (Manchester United)

add to that his PFA player of the year award and his other personal accolades and I think you should understand why he is a champion

WTF? What are we talking about here -Keane the player or Keane the manager? Why state his playing career and not his managerial career? It is typical of this place to avoid the issue at hand and drag up meaningless events of the past, which in this case is his playing career. The fact is he is an average manager with too large an ego to understand this.

Xavi6

adrian280582 wrote: »

But you said he kept promise he could not keep?

You are wrong. No if's or buts.

They 11 points of playoffs at moment. I like to think that any manager at club could turn it around, that's type league it is.

You see when people start spreading ****e like that, that's when things get mistaken.

and you are talking ****e.

FFS, this is the problem with Keane apologists, trying to spin it so poor Roy looks like the wronged man who wasn't given a chance. It's a fact that he did not deliver the playoffs during his tenure, despite spending money.

The reason why he didn't deliver on the promise is incidental. The people closest to him had seen enough so they got rid. Worst start to a season in the club's history last year I believe and now 19th after 7 defeats in the last 9 games.

If anyone's talking shite it's you with your attempt at splitting hairs.

kryogen

Your kinda missing the point Xavi, he can still make the playoffs so he hasnt broken his promise yet

The_Kew_Tour

Xavi6 wrote: »

FFS, this is the problem with Keane apologists, trying to spin it so poor Roy looks like the wronged man who wasn't given a chance. It's a fact that he did not deliver the playoffs during his tenure, despite spending money.

The reason why he didn't deliver on the promise is incidental. The people closest to him had seen enough so they got rid. Worst start to a season in the club's history last year I believe and now 19th after 7 defeats in the last 9 games.

If anyone's talking shite it's you with your attempt at splitting hairs.

lol dont try spin it on me, I can quote what you said again if you have forgot what you said?

Your the one talking ****e about promises that he did not keep.

Can you prove that he would not walkout if did not get playoff's???? cause if so, your the closest thing to Nostradamus I ever know.

I did not make up lies, you have, end of discussion.

You can rant and rave all you like.

niallo27

fkt wrote: »

Luis garcia
He drink sangria
He came from Barca
To finish keane
He broke the ***** foot
With his size 5 boot
Little luis is real ****en mean

LuckyLloyd

OPENROAD wrote: »

But his nationality has nothing to do with it, why can't people base the discussion on his managerial record, are we not hyping him up because of his nationality/playing record?

This is all very simple:

I've never said he's a great manager. Neither has kryogen or some of his bigger defenders on here. That being said, his managerial record is not awful. Overall, he's done alright:

good

- getting Sunderland up after they had 0 points from 6 games;
- keeping them up;
- getting Ipswich to a League Cup Semi Final;

bad

- not pushing Sunderland on during his third season;
- not getting Ipswich into the playoffs;
- not having a stellar record in the transfer market;

He has an awful lot to improve on as a manager, and definitely needs to work on expanding his horizons when recruiting players; and fostering better relations with players and board members alike.

Moreover, him getting sacked after doing an unremarkable job at Ipswich (but hardly leaving them in fiery ruin) isn't worthy of these many posts in such a short space of time. The people coming in here with the 'lol - good enough for him' / 'that's the end of his managerial career' / 'go **** yourself Roy' nonsense are not objectively analysing his managerial achievements either.

There is nothing in his managerial career thus far to engender strong hatred or passionate worship. It's all been a bit meh to be honest. Solid in parts, unspectacular in others. As you well know, so many of the posters in here are being blinded by hatred of Utd or anger over Saipan.

All I know is that what he has done so far in management would compare favourably with a fair few of the 91 other guys with a gig in English League football right now. And as such he will get another shot.

OPENROAD

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I've never said he's a great manager. Neither has kryogen or some of his bigger defenders on here. That being said, his managerial record is not awful. Overall, he's done alright:

good

- getting Sunderland up after they had 0 points from 6 games;
- keeping them up;
- getting Ipswich to a League Cup Semi Final;

bad

- not pushing Sunderland on during his third season;
- not getting Ipswich into the playoffs;
- not having a stellar record in the transfer market;

He has an awful lot to improve on as a manager, and definitely needs to work on expanding his horizons when recruiting players; and fostering better relations with players and board members alike.

Moreover, him getting sacked after doing an unremarkable job at Ipswich (but hardly leaving them in fiery ruin) isn't worthy of these many posts in such a short a space of time. The people coming in here with the 'lol - good enough for him' / 'that's the end of his managerial career' / 'go **** yourself Roy' nonsense are not objectively analysing his managerial achievements either.

There is nothing in his managerial career thus far to engender strong hatred or passionate worship. It's all been a bit meh to be honest. Solid in parts, unspectacular in others. As you well know, so many of the posters in here are being blinded by hatred of Utd or anger over Saipan.

All I know is that what he has done so far in management would compare favourably with a fair few of the 91 other guys with a gig in English League football right now. And as such he will get another shot.

I 100% agree with you that he should get another go, I just wonder if this was a manager of a different nationality would people feel the same, thats the reason I brought up nationality.

Chucky the tree

Keane promised to get them into the play-offs. Did Ipswich get into the play-offs under Keane? Nope, broke his promise.

kryogen

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Keane promised to get them into the playoffs. Did Ipswich get into the play-offs under Keane? Nope, broke his promise.

has the season ended and nobody told me?

christ that was a long ****

Warper

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I've never said he's a great manager. Neither has kryogen or some of his bigger defenders on here. That being said, his managerial record is not awful. Overall, he's done alright:

good

- getting Sunderland up after they had 0 points from 6 games;
- keeping them up;
- getting Ipswich to a League Cup Semi Final;

bad

- not pushing Sunderland on during his third season;
- not getting Ipswich into the playoffs;
- not having a stellar record in the transfer market;

He has an awful lot to improve on as a manager, and definitely needs to work on expanding his horizons when recruiting players; and fostering better relations with players and board members alike.

Moreover, him getting sacked after doing an unremarkable job at Ipswich (but hardly leaving them in fiery ruin) isn't worthy of these many posts in such a short a space of time. The people coming in here with the 'lol - good enough for him' / 'that's the end of his managerial career' / 'go **** yourself Roy' nonsense are not objectively analysing his managerial achievements either.

There is nothing in his managerial career thus far to engender strong hatred or passionate worship. It's all been a bit meh to be honest. Solid in parts, unspectacular in others. As you well know, so many of the posters in here are being blinded by hatred of Utd or anger over Saipan.

All I know is that what he has done so far in management would compare favourably with a fair few of the 91 other guys with a gig in English League football right now. And as such he will get another shot.

Fair enough but on the flipside there is a lot of Man Utd/Keane lovers who will never criticise him no matter what. Keane isnt the worst manager in the Leagues but I doubt he will find a bigger club to manage than Ipswich at this stage of his career. He is just too hot-headed for being a top manager atm. He has fallen out with players, boards and just last week he was spotted giving a sneaky 2 fingers to parts of the Ipswich fans at Portman Road after getting beaten to Forest. Hardly ideal candidate for any managerial position.

Xavi6

adrian280582 wrote: »

lol dont try spin it on me, I can quote what you said again if you have forgot what you said?

Your the one talking ****e about promises that he did not keep.

Can you prove that he would not walkout if did not get playoff's???? cause if so, your the closest thing to Nostradamus I ever know.

I did not make up lies, you have, end of discussion.

You can rant and rave all you like.

What lies did I make up? I said that he promised to deliver the playoffs or he would walk. What's incorrect about that?

Hyopthetically he could have reached them or gone back on his word at some stage but wasn't given the opportunity. Either way he didn't fulfill what he said he would do during his tenure.

The_Kew_Tour

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Keane promised to get them into the play-offs. Did Ipswich get into the play-offs under Keane? Nope, broke his promise.

and it's this type of ****e talk that sickens my hole.

Never knew season ended today.

Well done QPR champions 10/11

kryogen

But even if Ipswich were in playoff spots right now, that doesnt mean they would make the playoffs by the end of the season, so how can you say he has broken his promise before the season ends?

Chucky the tree

Doesn't matter if the season ended, he never got them to the play-offs. His own fault he was sacked, 4 points from the last 27. Clearly he was motoring towards the play-offs with that form!

Warper

adrian280582 wrote: »

and it's this type of ****e talk that sickens my hole.

Never knew season ended today.

Well done QPR champions 10/11

So, say hypothetically if Keane stays as Ipswich manager, what odds would you give on them reaching the playoffs?

fkt

adrian280582 wrote: »

and it's this type of ****e talk that sickens my hole.

Never knew season ended today.

Well done QPR champions 10/11

He's not going to take them to the play offs though is he? That's the point that was made.

JerryHandbag

So Triggs IS dead??

The_Kew_Tour

Xavi6 wrote: »

What lies did I make up? I said that he promised to deliver the playoffs or he would walk. What's incorrect about that?

Hyopthetically he could have reached them or gone back on his word at some stage but wasn't given the opportunity. Either way he didn't fulfill what he said he would do during his tenure.

Ok put it another way, your basically saying that the table, as it now stands, will be the same come May?

You said Roy broke a promise which is not true. Come on it's for all to see.

He promised them playoff's or he would walk you say, well he never got the chance now did he?

Xavi6

kryogen wrote: »

But even if Ipswich were in playoff spots right now, that doesnt mean they would make the playoffs by the end of the season, so how can you say he has broken his promise before the season ends?

So because he got the bullet he gets a Get Out of Jail Free card in terms of what he said he would do in his time at the club? He never got to see out his two years so we'll never be able to confirm if he's a man of his word?

I realise there's a lot of hypothetics if indeed he is gone but come on, the guy promised the world and delivered the opposite during his time there.

kryogen

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Doesn't matter if the season ended, he never got them to the play-offs. His own fault he was sacked, 4 points from the last 27. Clearly he was motoring towards the play-offs with that form!

The first two sentences in that post are two of the more stupid ones I have read today, well played sir


I assume you would like to see Ancelotti, Moyes etc.. sacked also, bad runs cant be tolerated i guess

Hughton was rightfully sacked at Newcastle and Allardyce deserved to go at Blackburn too i suppose....

The_Kew_Tour

fkt wrote: »

He's not going to take them to the play offs though is he? That's the point that was made.

Not much, same can be said when he took over Sunderland.

Look I dont mind anybody hating Roy, its just people making stuff up, thats just not on.

edit that post was meant for Warper?? sorry

Warper

adrian280582 wrote: »

Ok put it another way, your basically saying that the table, as it now stands, will be the same come May?

You said Roy broke a promise which is not true. Come on it's for all to see.

He promised them playoff's or he would walk you say, well he never got the chance now did he?

Ah cmon now, that is like saying Liverpool have a chance of winning the PL. So basically you are ruling everything out until it is mathematically impossible.

LuckyLloyd

Warper wrote: »

Fair enough but on the flipside there is a lot of Man Utd/Keane lovers who will never criticise him no matter what. Keane isnt the worst manager in the Leagues but I doubt he will find a bigger club to manage than Ipswich at this stage of his career. He is just too hot-headed for being a top manager atm. He has fallen out with players, boards and just last week he was spotted giving a sneaky 2 fingers to parts of the Ipswich fans at Portman Road after getting beaten to Forest. Hardly ideal candidate for any managerial position.

I dunno, he now has four seasons under his belt and we have yet to see major catastrophe with him at the helm. Upon leaving Sunderland and Ipswich they had some things to look forward to that weren't there before he took over (Premiership status / Cup semi), and he hadn't created financial difficulties / left a horrendously unbalanced squad / stuck the club deep in the relegation places.

As such, to claim he is unfit for any managerial position seems utterly unfounded to me. Compare where Ipswich are now to where Darren Ferguson has left Preston North End! Two clubs of similar size with ambitions of promotion - one of which is a near certainty to go down and lost three squad members as a direct result of the manager's departure.

It is always relative folks. Keane will manage again, and deservedly so. Not because he is anything special, but because he is relatively less incompetent than his peers in the English League Pyramid.

kryogen

he hardly promised the world, he said he would get them to the playoffs, should he not have been promising the title and a domestic cup treble if he was promising the world?

kryogen

Warper wrote: »

Ah cmon now, that is like saying Liverpool have a chance of winning the PL. So basically you are ruling everything out until it is mathematically impossible.

No its not the same thing, its not even close to the same thing, have you any idea about the Championship?

The_Kew_Tour

fkt wrote: »

He's not going to take them to the play offs though is he? That's the point that was made.

So if I put thread on boards Saying, Well Done to Man United on being this season Premership champions, and come back in may and said told you so then that's ok ya??

He broke no promise, he got the sack.

How hard can it be really.

Warper

kryogen wrote: »

The first two sentences in that post are two of the more stupid ones I have read today, well played sir


I assume you would like to see Ancelotti, Moyes etc.. sacked also, bad runs cant be tolerated i guess

Hughton was rightfully sacked at Newcastle and Allardyce deserved to go at Blackburn too i suppose....

Again, totally different scenarios. Ancelloti won Chelseas first Double last season, Moyes is a legendary manager who has the backing of the fans. Hughton and Big Sam had the backing of the fans. What people on here fail to hear are the FANS. Ipswich fans know exactly the situation and they want Keane gone. WAKE UP.

Xavi6

kryogen wrote: »

he hardly promised the world, he said he would get them to the playoffs, should he not have been promising the title and a domestic cup treble if he was promising the world?

Come on now, I obviously meant he promised the world in Championship terms, i.e. a potential return to the Premiership, and what followed was the complete opposite.

The_Kew_Tour

Warper wrote: »

Ah cmon now, that is like saying Liverpool have a chance of winning the PL. So basically you are ruling everything out until it is mathematically impossible.

Christ i hope you never become a manager, with that attitude

Chucky the tree

kryogen wrote: »

The first two sentences in that post are two of the more stupid ones I have read today, well played sir


I assume you would like to see Ancelotti, Moyes etc.. sacked also, bad runs cant be tolerated i guess

Hughton was rightfully sacked at Newcastle and Allardyce deserved to go at Blackburn too i suppose....

I think the following two sentences you posted are actually the stupidest ones posted today, and probably in the past week. Keane's been muck since he joined Ipswich, his latest run of crap form is nothing knew. He was horrendous at the start of last season as well. He finished 15th, closer to relegation then promotion and this season is no difference. Yet you compare his situation to manager who won the Premier league last season? :pac:

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Doesn't matter if the season ended, he never got them to the play-offs. His own fault he was sacked, 4 points from the last 27. Clearly he was motoring towards the play-offs with that form!

Listen buddy, you're a sharp dude capable of posting a lot better than this and you know when you're talking through your hole. How about you give it a rest huh?

kryogen

Xavi6 wrote: »

Come on now, I obviously meant he promised the world in Championship terms, i.e. a potential return to the Premiership, and what followed was the complete opposite.

again your using hyperbole to make a point, is it necessary?

He had them up in the playoffs spots a few weeks ago, they are on a horrible run right now, how can you say for sure he wont get them back on a good run in the next few games? the season has a long way to go and the clubs at the bottom end of the table have plenty of time to make playoff charges

The_Kew_Tour

Xavi6 wrote: »

Come on now, I obviously meant he promised the world in Championship terms, i.e. a potential return to the Premiership, and what followed was the complete opposite.

At this point yes your right, but that's like saying Aston Villa can look forward to playing in Championship next season.

kryogen

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think the following two sentences you posted are actually the stupidest ones posted today, and probably in the past week. Keane's been muck since he joined Ipswich, his latest run of crap form is nothing knew. He was horrendous at the start of last season as well. He finished 15th, closer to relegation then promotion and this season is no difference. Yet you compare his situation to manager who won the Premier league last season? :pac:

no, i dont compare them, incomparable Ancelloti is a vastly superior manager

would have thought that was obvious

LuckyLloyd

By the by, a rakeload of clubs started into the Championship this year with ambitions of promotion. There are a few clubs aside from Ipswich who are on course for a season of disappointment - and a few managers who will pay the penalty because of it. Fiercely competitive league, and - particularly this season - whoever takes a team to the Premiership deserves a ton of credit.

The way some people are going on you'd swear Keane had failed to win the LOI with Barcelona or something.

Warper

adrian280582 wrote: »

Christ i hope you never become a manager, with that attitude

No worries there mate, not cut out for it. One of the toughest jobs there is and i do admire anyone that put themselves forward for it as it is open to endless praise/criticism. Fans are fickle but not totally stupid and lets face it, sacking Keane can hardly come as a surprise to anyone given their run of form. Its a tough business.

Warper

adrian280582 wrote: »

At this point yes your right, but that's like saying Aston Villa can look forward to playing in Championship next season.

There is a lot more of a chance of that happening than Ipswich getting to the playoffs.

The_Kew_Tour

Warper wrote: »

No worries there mate, not cut out for it. One of the toughest jobs there is and i do admire anyone that put themselves forward for it as it is open to endless praise/criticism. Fans are fickle but not totally stupid and lets face it, sacking Keane can hardly come as a surprise to anyone given their run of form. Its a tough business.

Sorry for my previous post too you, look I agree with waht you say.

My problem was that people making up stuff about promise he did not keep, which is not true, and then making me out be the guilty one.

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Listen buddy, you're a sharp dude capable of posting a lot better than this and you know when you're talking through your hole. How about you give it a rest huh?

:pac: Thanks, I think. Seriously, you don't think he deserved to be sacked though? He'll be back in management though, and I'm sure he'll learn his lesson to not make ridiculous promises about promotion.

kryogen wrote: »

no, i dont compare them, incomparable Ancelloti is a vastly superior manager

would have thought that was obvious

Of course he is, he's not a manager who has failed to delivery horribly two seasons in a row as well, none of the managers you mentioned have.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

By the by, a rakeload of clubs started into the Championship this year with ambitions of promotion. There are a few clubs aside from Ipswich who are on course for a season of disappointment - and a few managers who will pay the penalty because of it. Fiercely competitive league, and - particularly this season - whoever takes a team to the Premiership deserves a ton of credit.

The way some people are going on you'd swear Keane had failed to win the LOI with Barcelona or something.

I agree with all of these, it's such a tough league which is why people claiming Roy could have turned the ship and got promotion is pretty ludicrous. Mathmatically he mightn't have failed, but mathmatically Hodgson has failed to deliver the title, let alone 4th place for Liverpool. We're only 11 points off 4th place, same number Keane is from play-offs Should we still keep Hodgson on as manager then?

Xavi6

kryogen wrote: »

again your using hyperbole to make a point, is it necessary?

He had them up in the playoffs spots a few weeks ago, they are on a horrible run right now, how can you say for sure he wont get them back on a good run in the next few games? the season has a long way to go and the clubs at the bottom end of the table have plenty of time to make playoff charges

We all know the Championship is one of the toughest around which makes Keane's words even more ridiculous. Saying you'll deliver something that is by no means near a guarantee is putting a target on your head from day one, and the powers that be saw enough over the past 20 months to make the decision.

I'll concede that there is no guarantee that Ipswich wouldn't make the playoffs given it's January, but they were highly unlikely to. Either way and for whatever reason he didn't make the playoffs during his time there.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

:pac: Thanks, I think. Seriously, you don't think he deserved to be sacked though? He'll be back in management though, and I'm sure he'll learn his lesson to not make ridiculous promises about promotion.



Of course he is, he's not a manager who has failed to delivery horribly two seasons in a row as well, none of the managers you mentioned have.





I agree with all of these, it's such a tough league which is why people claiming Roy could have turned the ship and got promotion is pretty ludicrous. Mathmatically he mightn't have failed, but mathmatically Hodgson has failed to deliver the title, let alone 4th place for Liverpool. We're only 11 points off 4th place, same number Keane is from play-offs Should we still keep Hodgson on as manager then?

I'm not arguing (nor have I said once in this thread) that Keane should have been retained by Ipswich. He's been under pressure for a while now. I would argue that the best thing would have been to let him see out the contract as I don't think they'll go down, and they could yet have a trip to Wembley to come.

My interest in this thread is with the ridiculous hyperbole being thrown about. Stuff about Keane 'being unsuitable for any managerial position'; 'having an awful managerial record'; 'being finished' - or the bolded above.

He's disappointed, and he deserves to walk - but given the context of the Championship and relative budgets within it, I couldn't accept the idea that he has done a worse job than Roy Hodgson this year.

The_Kew_Tour

Jesus if Roy aint sacked in morning, and he does not make playoffs in May, dont any of you ask for my head, you hear me.:P

OPENROAD

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not arguing (nor have I said once in this thread) that Keane should have been retained by Ipswich. He's been under pressure for a while now. I would argue that the best thing would have been to let him see out the contract as I don't think they'll go down, and they could yet have a trip to Wembley to come.

My interest in this thread is with the ridiculous hyperbole being thrown about. Stuff about Keane 'being unsuitable for any managerial position'; 'having an awful managerial record'; 'being finished' - or the bolded above.

He's disappointed, and he deserves to walk - but given the context of the Championship and relative budgets within it, I couldn't accept the idea that he has done a worse job than Roy Hodgson this year.

I assume you think Roy Hodgson deserves more time, considering his managerial record has been ok?

Warper

OPENROAD wrote: »

I assume you think Roy Hodgson deserves more time, considering his managerial record has been ok?

He means the opposite unless im totally wired

The_Kew_Tour

OPENROAD wrote: »

I assume you think Roy Hodgson deserves more time, considering his managerial record has been ok?

I know question was not for me, but I actually think he does. Least till end season.

Dimitri

About 5 on topic posts in this thread perhaps mods should consider a Roy Keane thunderdome sticky

In fairness he was an absolutely great player in his day, had such an unbelievable desire to win every match and every ball right until the very end of his career, on top of that he had great skill and was an excellent passer of the ball, Man U were unstopable when Beckham was running onto a fast pass from Keane and only had to put his foot through it. He seems to approach management in the same manner as a player, when all else fails use sheer force of personality. However great management seems to be an art form, good management requires an extremely flexible personality and modern football managers need to be superb man managers. I've no doubt in Keanes skills to rally the troops but getting the best out of a limited player or shaping the talent of a young player who already has the inflated ego of a great player (which imo almost all young players have now at least to some degree) seems largely to be beyond him at the moment. As to whether he develops these skills I don't know but I hope so he'd certainly add to the premiership entertainment value he if were ever to return to that level, and hopes isn't lost on that either as Avram Grant is still a PL manager.