Has Roy Keane Been Sacked?

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not arguing (nor have I said once in this thread) that Keane should have been retained by Ipswich. He's been under pressure for a while now. I would argue that the best thing would have been to let him see out the contract as I don't think they'll go down, and they could yet have a trip to Wembley to come.

My interest in this thread is with the ridiculous hyperbole being thrown about. Stuff about Keane 'being unsuitable for any managerial position'; 'having an awful managerial record'; 'being finished' - or the bolded above.

He's disappointed, and he deserves to walk - but given the context of the Championship and relative budgets within it, I couldn't accept the idea that he has done a worse job than Roy Hodgson this year.

Promised promotion when he was hired in April 2009. First season they finish 15th, 14 points off promotion having started the season no wins in the first 14 games and having 4 wins in their first 24 matches. Play-offs were pretty much gone by January. This season, they are 3 points off relegation after 24 matches, with there longest winning streak being a whole 2 matches while having a losing streak that has gone on for 6 matches, 4 points from there last 27. Again it's January and play-offs are pretty much gone. Honestly Lloyd, you consider describing all that as "failing to deliver horribly in two seasons" as ridiculous hyperbole?

OPENROAD

Dimitri wrote: »

About 5 on topic posts in this thread perhaps mods should consider a Roy Keane thunderdome sticky

In fairness he was an absolutely great player in his day, had such an unbelievable desire to win every match and every ball right until the very end of his career, on top of that he had great skill and was an excellent passer of the ball, Man U were unstopable when Beckham was running onto a fast pass from Keane and only had to put his foot through it. He seems to approach management in the same manner as a player, when all else fails use sheer force of personality. However great management seems to be an art form, good management requires an extremely flexible personality and modern football managers need to be superb man managers. I've no doubt in Keanes skills to rally the troops but getting the best out of a limited player or shaping the talent of a young player who already has the inflated ego of a great player (which imo almost all young players have now at least to some degree) seems largely to be beyond him at the moment. As to whether he develops these skills I don't know but I hope so he'd certainly add to the premiership entertainment value he if were ever to return to that level, and hopes isn't lost on that either as Avram Grant is still a PL manager.

He did quite well with Chelsea

cson

I'd say what may have proven to be his downfall in Ipswich and formerly at Sunderland is the type of Manager he learned from and evidently tries to carry himself as [namely like Clough and Fergie] there methods or what would have been there methods* are largely redundant in the primadonna world of today. You simply have to be a top class man manager nowadays and you can't just **** players about any way you think fit if they don't meet your standards.

*In the case of Fergie I'm qualifying what I said by pointing to the Rooney saga versus RVN & Stam - Rooneys prick acting would have seen him out the door a lá the former two if it had of been 00/01 vintage Fergie imo

Dimitri

OPENROAD wrote: »

He did quite well with Chelsea

I wouldn't agree, he didn't build the team he was handed a team on the road to where they were going and changed nothing. In all honesty I think whoever he was put in charge of Chelsea at that time would have found difficult to do any different.

Dimitri

cson wrote: »

*In the case of Fergie I'm qualifying what I said by pointing to the Rooney saga versus RVN & Stam - Rooneys prick acting would have seen him out the door a lá the former two if it had of been 00/01 vintage Fergie imo

I couldn't agree more.

Warper

Dimitri wrote: »

I wouldn't agree, he didn't build the team he was handed a team on the road to where they were going and changed nothing. In all honesty I think whoever he was put in charge of Chelsea at that time would have found difficult to do any different.

Hmm, Carling Cup Final, second in the League and Champions League final losing on penos doesnt sound too bad to me.

Dimitri

Warper wrote: »

Hmm, Carling Cup Final, second in the League and Champions League final losing on penos doesnt sound too bad to me.

I didn't say it was bad I'm saying his input into achieving that was minimal.

OPENROAD

Dimitri wrote: »

I didn't say it was bad I'm saying his input into achieving that was minimal.

How was Roys achievement greater?

Dimitri

OPENROAD wrote: »

How was Roys achievement greater?

I never for a moment said it was.

Warper

Dimitri wrote: »

I didn't say it was bad I'm saying his input into achieving that was minimal.

He was manager? Im not saying he is a great manager but surely his contribution was a bit more than minimal.

Hank Scorpio

legend

Liam O

Dimitri wrote: »

I didn't say it was bad I'm saying his input into achieving that was minimal.

When Jose left Chelsea were playing as well as they are now, Grant steadied the ship and got the players playing top football again and I was delighted when he wasn't retained because he definitely would have done a better job than Scolari imo. I love how Hiddink's time at Chelsea isn't seen as a failure and he is given plaudits for it yet Grant just took over a good team and didn't do anything in people's eyes

eagle eye

All this stuff about Roy Keane is just horrible to read. Wake up haters, we would never have been anywhere near Saipan only for Roy Keane. You should be thankful that such a great player played for our country.

You don't hear any of this hate for Michael Laudrup who refused to play for his national team for a while.

L'prof

eagle eye wrote: »

All this stuff about Roy Keane is just horrible to read. Wake up haters, we would never have been anywhere near Saipan only for Roy Keane. You should be thankful that such a great player played for our country.

You don't hear any of this hate for Michael Laudrup who refused to play for his national team for a while.

Him, his brother and Molby left during a European Championship (not a World Cup) and Denmark went on to win the competition that year. There's a massive difference to be honest!

Paparazzo

"Any half-decent manager could take a team to mid-table in the Championship"
That quote was always going to come back and bite him in the arse

eagle eye

L'prof wrote: »

Him, his brother and Molby left during a European Championship (not a World Cup) and Denmark went on to win the competition that year. There's a massive difference to be honest!

Why is there a massive difference, they all refused to play for the team. Simple. Results after the fact should have no bearing.

L'prof

eagle eye wrote: »

Why is there a massive difference, they all refused to play for the team. Simple. Results after the fact should have no bearing.

You're clearly talking about emotionless, non-grudge bearing beings here, a category which football fans don't fall into!

IvySlayer

Roy needs a tutor. He has no clue in the transfer markets. He was given 8 million to spend for Ipswich.

Ush1

Hypocrisy is a soccer forum special. Gas the same people who slag Barca or whoever then get all sandy vadge when people don't like Keane.

That_Guy

Wow Paul Jewell to take over from Keane. Completely forgot about the lad to be honest.

LuckyLloyd

OPENROAD wrote: »

I assume you think Roy Hodgson deserves more time, considering his managerial record has been ok?

Eh, you have misread the post you quoted if you come to the above conclusion.

Roy Keane threads are usually a good laugh

Kev_ps3

Im sad to see Keane go, hopefully he can get another club to manage.

mike65

Just confirmed

amiable

With the RTE microphone in the centre

GavRedKing

Be intersting to see what hes going do next, maybe take a bit of time off and go back to a Championship team for the start of next season, i dont see an EPL team taking a chance on him anyway.

The Muppet

gavredking wrote: »

Be intersting to see what hes going do next, maybe take a bit of time off and go back to a Championship team for the start of next season, i dont see an EPL team taking a chance on him anyway.

Anfield? Now wouldn't that be fun.

GavRedKing

The Muppet wrote: »

Anfield? Now wouldn't that be fun.

I think the internet would explode and many, many bans would be handed out in this forum should that ever happen.

Would be fun to see though. :pac:

Kinetic^

Dunphy: Keane will not manage again

Eamon Dunphy believes Roy Keane is not suited for management, and that he will not get another managerial job following his dismissal as Ipswich Town boss.

Speaking on Morning Ireland, the RTÉ soccer analyst told Darren Frehill that he was not surprised Keane had been sacked. Under Keane, Ipswich have lost 10 of their last 14 games.

Dunphy said: 'The results have been very poor, and he has been sniping at the club for not giving him money to buy players.'

'I don't think he is cut-out for management. His record at Sunderland was OK, but the constant stories of fights with players and his public denunciation of his own players are bad signs. I don't think Roy Keane is cut-out temperamentally for management. You have to respect other people.'

Keane is known for speaking his mind at press conferences but according to Dunphy this is another weakness.

'A lot of his press conferences are bizarre to say the least. Journalists love him because he is always controversial.

'A football club should always be about the team and the players, and I think that having such a high-profile and controversial character as manager puts a spotlight on players who are really only Championship players. They are journeymen, I was one myself, and there is enough pressure inherent in being that.

'When he arrived at Ipswich in a glare of publicity, and with the targets he set himself, this increased the pressure on what are, basically, ordinary players.'

Keane has had success as a manager, notably when he teamed up with former Ireland team-mate - and adversary in the Saipan controversy - Niall Quinn.

Dunphy added: 'He got promotion at Sunderland, and they were close to the bottom of the table when he arrived, but he was still a remote figure to the players. I have spoken to players who played for him there and he wasn't liked. He was feared actually, and you can't get results on a continuing basis if players are afraid of you.

'I don't think he will get another job in football. He has proved, like many great players, to be unable to do the difficult job (of management).'

Dunphy, who ghosted Keane's autobiography in 2002, also praised the former Manchester United star.

'The other thing to be said about Roy Keane is that he is a remarkable man. He has five beautiful children and a very nice wife. He is taking care of his parents and friends in Cork, and he has never forgotten where he has come from.

'There are an awful lot of positives in Roy Keane's story and in his life.'

The outspoken pundit also pinpointed the Saipan incident, where Keane left the Irish squad on the eve of the World Cup Finals in 2002, as a turning point in Keane's life.

'I think after Saipan he became too fond of the limelight and of state of the nation addresses about the Irish team, the FAI, Trapattoni, Steve Staunton, Alex Ferguson.

'All of this stuff is not conducive to focusing on what your main job is, and, in his case, that was to get Ipswich Town into the Premier League.'

Keano

Who has Dunphy managed?

Oh ya he has managed to say alive for 63 years!

IamtheWalrus

I agree with Dunphy on most points re Keane's sacking. I would guess he is a nightmare to play for and if players don't like you then you aren't going to get the best out of them. Ferguson can combine being feared with being able to put an arm around a player if needs be. Not sure Keane could do that.

Keane had become too opinionated. His bringing up of Saipan after the Henry indident wreaked of a very sad man. He'll be very upset that a great football career will be tarnished by a poor managerial record. Bit like Stan.

L'prof

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Who has Dunphy managed?

Oh ya he has managed to say alive for 63 years...baby

FYP

He's right when he says that Keane deserved to be sacked, but there's no way that it will be his last managerial position!

frostie500

A few things that really annoyed pretty much every fan of Piswich over the past two years was the fact that Keane sold pretty much the entire Youth team that won the FA Youth Cup for us. We always prided ourselves on young players coming through to the first team and the cup winning team should have seen numerous players take prominent roles for the club yet each major contributer is no longer at the club.

The second thing was Keane's approach, he never seemed to grasp the difference between being a captain and being a manager. A captain can curse and shout at lads to make them improve but as a manager it doesnt have the same effect, players just start to ignore it and it loses all meaning. He played under great managers and while Fergie and Clough were known for their "hairdryer moments" it was not their default setting as it is with Keane.

When he took over I have to say I was delighted, I thought that this was a chance for us to be in the news more here and build a bigger profile but over the course of his tenure we have become a laughing stock because of his press conferences and performances for the camera. He has grown to need the limelight more and more and it clearly made it impossible for him to be a decent manger with us.

When Keane took of from Jim Magilton the majority of fans were disappointed to see Jim go but we also felt that seeing as Keane had won the championship at least a case could be made for bringing in a man with a more proven track record. It hasnt worked out for us but now we have to move on.

People can talk about our Carling Cup run we beat Crewe, Millwall, Northampton and West Brom...in other words we had a favorable draw. The League table doesnt lie and shows just how bad we are doing, we are a handful of points off relegation and struggling for consistency and no Cup run is going to make up for the fact that we have been routinely embarrassed in recent months.

To be honest I'm surprised he lasted this long, the performance against Norwich should have sealed his fate.

kensutz

frostie500 wrote: »

To be honest I'm surprised he lasted this long, the performance against Norwich was epic

FYP! :P

KittyeeTrix

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy:)

frostie500

kensutz wrote: »

FYP! :P

i shouldn't be impressed by that......

kensutz

To be honest I thought he'd walk after that and surprised how long he lasted after the game. As a Norwich fan I thought he did a fine job However I had a few contacts who worked with him at Ipswich and they found him very difficult to deal with on a day to day basis. Even one former player couldn't work for him.

frostie500

kensutz wrote: »

To be honest I thought he'd walk after that and surprised how long he lasted after the game. As a Norwich fan I thought he did a fine job However I had a few contacts who worked with him at Ipswich and they found him very difficult to deal with on a day to day basis. Even one former player couldn't work for him.

Yeah I heard the same from a former player, training was a disaster and post match you didnt get much feedback other than being told "you played sh*te" which obviously isnt very helpful!

LuckyLloyd

Good to get some input from an Ipswich fan!

@frostie: would you reckon the timing of the sacking is incase he managed to win one of the next couple of games? Or would a League Cup Final / Win over Arsenal have mattered to ye at this point?

frostie500

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Good to get some input from an Ipswich fan!

@frostie: would you reckon the timing of the sacking is incase he managed to win one of the next couple of games? Or would a League Cup Final / Win over Arsenal have mattered to ye at this point?

Personally it wouldn't matter too much to me if we got to the final(in relation to Keano keeping his job, obviously I want us in the final!) but I would say that the board wanted him gone before the semi just in case.

On thing I found interesting was that eh Norwich defeat was just a few days before we played West Brom and the club were unwilling to have a major upheaval before that match. With two big cup games upcoming the board clearly decided they couldnt risk giving him breathing room and waiting for lets saw five or six league matches before firing him. Our league situation is quite perilous now and the board have prioritsed it over a cup run meaning that with a gap between league matches they have chosen now as the ideal time to make the change.

grenache

Ipswich will yet regret sacking him. Despite spending 8 million on players, he still had a wafer thin squad. This season in particular he's had to contend with a raft of injuries to key players like McAuley and Delaney. He's starting team has been back-boned by loan signings - Colback, O'Dea, etc. Then you look at the average age of the squad he's got, its something like 24, which is very young. One could argue that the only proper experienced players in his team are Leadbitter and Scotland. The rest are mere babies. Nobody could really be expected to perform miracles and gain a top six finish with the squad he's had to work with. Yes they should be doing better than 19th, but in fairness, many of the points Ipswich have dropped this season have been down to horrendous individual errors.

It's ironic that Forest, the club where he started his professional career, should be the ones to possibly end his managerial career.

Dimitri

Liam O wrote: »

When Jose left Chelsea were playing as well as they are now, Grant steadied the ship and got the players playing top football again and I was delighted when he wasn't retained because he definitely would have done a better job than Scolari imo. I love how Hiddink's time at Chelsea isn't seen as a failure and he is given plaudits for it yet Grant just took over a good team and didn't do anything in people's eyes

To be fair I don't consider Hiddink's time at Chelsea as being any more successful than Grants.

frostie500

grenache wrote: »

Yes they should be doing better than 19th, but in fairness, many of the points Ipswich have dropped this season have been down to horrendous individual errors

The fact that throughout his tenure there have been countless "individual errors" costing us points and wins points to the fact that the players were not being properly trained. If there was only one or two games in which this happened it could be excused but in two years we have seen the same mistakes over and over again, the blame for that has to fall on the management team.

On a side note I'm just after getting an e-letter from the club::

ironbluedun

brian kerr watch out roy is looking for a managers job he might be half good at.

ironbluedun

grenache wrote: »

Ipswich will yet regret sacking him.

That remains to be seen, but its really doubtful, he will be forgotten by them soon enough.

flahavaj

I tink Keane still has a lot to offer to football ans I hope he gets another chance to prove himself. He was at best an Ok record at best as a manager but he's far from terrible and theres lots of worse managers in much bigger jobs than he at the moment. He's learning and will continue to do so I think.

Mental Mickey

Roy's biggest problem is his mouth. And he expects his players to be of the same standard as he was........but it just doesn't happen that way!?

Sgt Pepper 64

Dimitri wrote: »

To be fair I don't consider Hiddink's time at Chelsea as being any more successful than Grants.

what? hiddink was the most successful, win rate was 73%. grant was 67%.( same as mourino) hiddink lost only one game and was cheated out of cl final place by the ref. made sure of third place and won a cup to boot! all this with a thoroughly disillusioned squad. when he left Roman should have handed a warchest to Carlo to replace drogba, terry, lampard. this would have allowed the new recruits to settle in

DH2K9

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0107/dunphye.html

Eamon Dunphy believes Roy Keane is not suited for management, and that he will not get another managerial job following his dismissal as Ipswich Town boss.

Speaking on Morning Ireland, the RTÉ soccer analyst told Darren Frehill that he was not surprised Keane had been sacked. Under Keane, Ipswich have lost 10 of their last 14 games.

Dunphy said: 'The results have been very poor, and he has been sniping at the club for not giving him money to buy players.'

'I don't think he is cut-out for management. His record at Sunderland was OK, but the constant stories of fights with players and his public denunciation of his own players are bad signs. I don't think Roy Keane is cut-out temperamentally for management. You have to respect other people.'

Keane is known for speaking his mind at press conferences but according to Dunphy this is another weakness.

'A lot of his press conferences are bizarre to say the least. Journalists love him because he is always controversial.

'A football club should always be about the team and the players, and I think that having such a high-profile and controversial character as manager puts a spotlight on players who are really only Championship players. They are journeymen, I was one myself, and there is enough pressure inherent in being that.

'When he arrived at Ipswich in a glare of publicity, and with the targets he set himself, this increased the pressure on what are, basically, ordinary players.'

Keane has had success as a manager, notably when he teamed up with former Ireland team-mate - and adversary in the Saipan controversy - Niall Quinn.

Dunphy added: 'He got promotion at Sunderland, and they were close to the bottom of the table when he arrived, but he was still a remote figure to the players. I have spoken to players who played for him there and he wasn't liked. He was feared actually, and you can't get results on a continuing basis if players are afraid of you.

'I don't think he will get another job in football. He has proved, like many great players, to be unable to do the difficult job (of management).'

Dunphy, who ghosted Keane's autobiography in 2002, also praised the former Manchester United star.

'The other thing to be said about Roy Keane is that he is a remarkable man. He has five beautiful children and a very nice wife. He is taking care of his parents and friends in Cork, and he has never forgotten where he has come from.

'There are an awful lot of positives in Roy Keane's story and in his life.'

The outspoken pundit also pinpointed the Saipan incident, where Keane left the Irish squad on the eve of the World Cup Finals in 2002, as a turning point in Keane's life.

'I think after Saipan he became too fond of the limelight and of state of the nation addresses about the Irish team, the FAI, Trapattoni, Steve Staunton, Alex Ferguson.

'All of this stuff is not conducive to focusing on what your main job is, and, in his case, that was to get Ipswich Town into the Premier League.'

lee_baby_simms

Stating the obvious here but Keanes so called strengths such as single mindedness and an aggressive will to win have come at a price.

The poor guy seems to have been in constant inner turmoil all his life. He has little empathy and a serious chip on his shoulder. Most importantly he doesn't seem to have the capacity to stand back from a situation with perspective and make measured, good decisions. Thats always been his biggest flaw.

He'll always be arguably the greatest player this country this ever produced yet he only knew how to win one way...his way. He was never one to compromise or adapt when situations demanded it and unfortunately thats whats man management is all about.