Turncoats and Traitors

grenache

Stephen Ireland is the ultimate traitor. Not only a traitor but a liar too, as the granny-gate saga proved.

As a Forest supporter, i view Nigel Clough and Kris 'Fatboy' Commons as traitors. Commons was our best player between '05 and '08. Born and reared in Nottingham and a self proclaimed Forest fan. We won promotion back to Championship in 2008, with Commons saying it was his greatest achievement as a player so far. Yet what does he do that summer, only jump ship to our arch enemies Derby :mad:

Clough scored 155 goals in 400 games for us between 1986 and 1993 when he moved to Liverpool. Probably the most skillful and artistic players to ever done the red jersey. Loved by the fans, being 'the son of god', as he was labelled, certainly helped. Took the Derby job at the end of 2008, following in the footsteps of his father. It irked some Forest supporters but not most, it seemed natural, given his families links to the club and the fact that he raised in the town. However, the day before last month's Forest-Derby match, he gave am interview to a local radio station. He is quoted as saying "I would give up every goal I scored for Forest if Derby could score even once tonight". After that i dont have time for him anymore. What a horrible, disrespectful and petty comment to make. In the words of a Forest mate of mine: Fcuk you Nige!

HalloweenJack

Essien wrote: »

I don't remember too much fuss anyway, Joe Cole did the same thing 2 years later and I haven't seen his name mentioned.

Glen Johnson too.

PARKHEAD67

Paparazzo wrote: »

Mo Johnson and Harry Redknapp are the 2 that stand out at being the worst.

Edit: good article about Mo Johnson here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/10/maurice-mo-johnston-rangers-celtic

Mo johnstone. Exactly. Nothing else compares in fairness. This Kewell and owen stuff. Its NOTHING compared to the mo johnston thing.

Ian_K

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Glen Johnson too.

Dont forget this guy

Pighead

Terrible stuff from Fenn last season when he begged Dundalk to release him from his contract, telling the manager Ian Foster that he had to retire from the game due to family reasons. Dundalk sympathise with the bloke and release him from his contract almost immediately. Six days later Fenn announces that he has signed for Shamrock Rovers.

Terrible lack of class from Fenn. If you're reading this Neale, you can't see me, but I am shaking a fist in an angry fashion, at the pictures of you on my screen right now.

premierstone

grenache wrote: »

As a Forest supporter, i view Nigel Clough and Kris 'Fatboy' Commons as traitors. Commons was our best player between '05 and '08. Born and reared in Nottingham and a self proclaimed Forest fan. We won promotion back to Championship in 2008, with Commons saying it was his greatest achievement as a player so far. Yet what does he do that summer, only jump ship to our arch enemies Derby :mad:

There must have been more to that though grenache no?? I mena he turned down plenty of bigger clubs than Derby in the two seasons before that and kept saying he was happy with Forest and then to leave and make a backwards step to your fiercest rivals on the face of it didnt make sense, something must have happened behind the scenes, oh yeah and I dont ever remember any forest fans calling him 'Fatboy' when he was carrying them, class player IMO.

PARKHEAD67

SlickRic wrote: »

your point kinda stands, but let's just get the facts a bit straight, maybe you could clarify.

Toure is the highest paid in the league at £220k is he not? with i'd imagine Tevez not far behind.

Tevez wants more (£300k reportedly), but he never signed a new contract.

EPL is kinda sick alright

OhNoYouDidn't

Pighead wrote: »

Terrible stuff from Fenn last season when he begged Dundalk to release him from his contract, telling the manager Ian Foster that he had to retire from the game due to family reasons. Dundalk sympathise with the bloke and release him from his contract almost immediately. Six days later Fenn announces that he has signed for Shamrock Rovers.

Terrible lack of class from Fenn. If you're reading this Neale, you can't see me, but I am shaking a fist in an angry fashion, at the pictures of you on my screen right now.

Hardly turncoat or traitor stuff though. While bad form at one level, he genuinely retired, realised he couldn't get his tax back and got his agent to get him another club for the rest of the year. If Dundalk were thick enough to fill in the form marked 'released' rather than 'retired', thats not his problem.

fkiely

SlickRic wrote: »

i may be opening old wounds, but what did Frank actually do?

simply move from West Ham to Chelsea?

or is there something more?

He comes from a masive West Ham family, his dad and uncle were West Ham legends and he was one of our brightest prospects coming through the academy. He proclaimed his love for the club on numerous occassions.

However once his old man left the club he started throwing his toys out of the pram and basically demanded a transfer. Once one wasn't forthcoming he began to play ****e and started to become hostile to the fans (who had always supported him).

Even once he got his transfer he couldn't just let it go, sprouting complete and utter lies about the fans in his book and constantly having a go at them in the press.

These days he always raises his game against us (nothing wrong with that) and whenever he scores makes sure he runs up to our fans and kisses the Chelsea shirt. Fat ****.

FatherTed

Pighead

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Hardly turncoat or traitor stuff though. While bad form at one level, he genuinely retired, realised he couldn't get his tax back and got his agent to get him another club for the rest of the year. If Dundalk were thick enough to fill in the form marked 'released' rather than 'retired', thats not his problem.

They filled in the form marked 'released' rather than 'retired' because Fenn said he might want to play a "little bit of football" at lower levels at some stage. Again the board took his word for it and he threw it back in their face.

fkiely

Essien wrote: »

I don't remember too much fuss anyway, Joe Cole did the same thing 2 years later and I haven't seen his name mentioned.

Joe Cole and the likes of Johnson, Rio and Carrick etc.. left the club with a bit of decency and decorum. Big difference.

I'm not naive enough to believe that players should remain with the one club and I certainly don't begrudge them wanting to go onto better things than West Ham.

However there is a way to go about this.

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

your point kinda stands, but let's just get the facts a bit straight, maybe you could clarify.

Toure is the highest paid in the league at £220k is he not? with i'd imagine Tevez not far behind.

Tevez wants more (£300k reportedly), but he never signed a new contract.

Toure is not the highest paid player at city. City released a statement when Tevez put in his transfer request stating that he (Tevez) was their highest paid player.

I'll save you a google

Carlos' current five-year contract has three-and-a-half years to run and he is the highest paid player at the Manchester City Football Club.

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/news/team-news/2010/december/carlos-tevez-a-statement

Is that enough clarification fo you?

jester77

Lots of worthy mentions already. For some reason Arsenal produce a high proportion, maybe it's their salary cap. I'd also add Anelka (and his brother) to the list.

fkiely

HalloweenJack wrote: »

- the player isn't from the local area (Paul Ince, Luis Enrique, Titus Bramble, Carlos Tevez, the list is endless)
- the two teams involved aren't even rivals (Paul Ince (West Ham to Man U), Wayne Rooney)

Paul Ince is from the area, grew up a West Ham fan and all. What he did was unacceptable and really poor judgement.

flahavaj

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Wasn't Tevez treated like crap by Man Utd though? Or am I mistaken?

He didn't get his game as regularly as he might have liked. Not sure that justifies "being treated like crap" or indeed all the p*ssing and moaning he did about it tbh. He has shown at City and Corinthians that loyalty is as elusive to him as the rest of the English lamguage appears to be.

Great player on the pitch, unbelievably bad attitude off it.

HalloweenJack

fkiely wrote: »

Paul Ince is from the area, grew up a West Ham fan and all. What he did was unacceptable and really poor judgement.

I was referring to Paul Ince being labeled a traitor by Man U fans because he joined Liverpool.

iregk

fkiely wrote: »

He comes from a masive West Ham family, his dad and uncle were West Ham legends and he was one of our brightest prospects coming through the academy. He proclaimed his love for the club on numerous occassions.

Hold on a bloody second. Lampard got nothing but abuse while in a West Ham jersey from many fans who felt he was over weight, useless, completely over rated and was only getting a game because of his father and uncle. So don't try peddling the bs of we loved him he was our greatest prospect.

I also remember the joy from many a West Ham fan signing up to the Chelsea forum to throw abuse around and laughing hard at the blues for getting robbed in broad daylight by the hammers. You laughed at Chelsea paying £11m for Lampard when Gio Van Bronckhorst could have been gotten for a similar price.

Also, how come you don't give Carlton Cole grief for leaving Chelsea to go to West Ham? He kissed the Chelsea badge every time he scored as well so surely you'd have standard and not be totally one sided?

OhNoYouDidn't

Pighead wrote: »

They filled in the form marked 'released' rather than 'retired' because Fenn said he might want to play a "little bit of football" at lower levels at some stage. Again the board took his word for it and he threw it back in their face.

So you were fully aware he would play again. He did. You should have held his registration. Dry your eyes.

fkiely

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I was referring to Paul Ince being labeled a traitor by Man U fans because he joined Liverpool.

Apologies, mis-interpretted your post.

Paparazzo

fkiely wrote: »

He comes from a masive West Ham family, his dad and uncle were West Ham legends and he was one of our brightest prospects coming through the academy. He proclaimed his love for the club on numerous occassions.

However once his old man left the club he started throwing his toys out of the pram and basically demanded a transfer. Once one wasn't forthcoming he began to play ****e and started to become hostile to the fans (who had always supported him).

Even once he got his transfer he couldn't just let it go, sprouting complete and utter lies about the fans in his book and constantly having a go at them in the press.

These days he always raises his game against us (nothing wrong with that) and whenever he scores makes sure he runs up to our fans and kisses the Chelsea shirt. Fat ****.

One of the things he wrote in his book was that west ham fans had such hatred for him, they actually cheered when he broke his leg as a young player. I was always suspect of that story. No fans in the world cheer their own player, especially a young player when they get injured. I have since heard a journalist questioned about this and he said he was at the game and it never happened. Fans clapped as lampard was stretchered off, that was it!

fkiely

iregk wrote: »

Hold on a bloody second. Lampard got nothing but abuse while in a West Ham jersey from many fans who felt he was over weight, useless, completely over rated and was only getting a game because of his father and uncle. So don't try peddling the bs of we loved him he was our greatest prospect.

I also remember the joy from many a West Ham fan signing up to the Chelsea forum to throw abuse around and laughing hard at the blues for getting robbed in broad daylight by the hammers. You laughed at Chelsea paying £11m for Lampard when Gio Van Bronckhorst could have been gotten for a similar price.

Also, how come you don't give Carlton Cole grief for leaving Chelsea to go to West Ham? He kissed the Chelsea badge every time he scored as well so surely you'd have standard and not be totally one sided?

There's no peddling of bull**** here fella so hold your horses. Any abuse Lampard got while at West Ham was no worse than any other player. The bull**** being peddled is from Lampard himself who constantly goes on about how he never got any support from the West Ham fans. Absolute bollocks.

I never said we 'loved him cause he was our best prospect'. Both of those statements aren't true. Joe Cole was by far and away our best prospect but that's irrelevant.

A lot of fans were disappointed to see Lampard leave but at the time he was nowhere near the player he became at Chelsea, that much is clear. So yeah, we thought we got a decent enough deal out of it. What's the issue here?

Why would we give Carlton Cole abuse? I'm confused on this moot point to be honest.

talla10

I'm sure some english fans might see Irelands team in the early 90's as mostly turncoats :pac:

No seriously for me Denis law, United legend, scoring the goal for City against United that relegted them in the 70's deserves a mention!

And lets not forget Paul Ince, not because he played for Liverpool, but beacuse of the way he celebrated his goal in April 1999 against Utd and later stating he hoped that goal derailed United's treble!!

fkiely

Paparazzo wrote: »

One of the things he wrote in his book was that west ham fans had such hatred for him, they actually cheered when he broke his leg as a young player. I was always suspect of that story. No fans in the world cheer their own player, especially a young player when they get injured. I have since heard a journalist questioned about this and he said he was at the game and it never happened. Fans clapped as lampard was stretchered off, that was it!

This is almost the biggest gripe West Ham fans have with him. I was also there that day (have been a season ticket holder for years and years) and when he got stretchered off all the fans stood up and clapped him off as a sign of courtesy, as all fans would for one of their own.

Then he goes and completely twists the story in order to vilify West Ham fans to suit his own agenda.

inforfun

Since he came to Feyenoord i didnt see him as a traitor.
When the news broke out, despite being an admirer, i wasnt thrilled.
And with me most Feyenoord supporters as we always had seen him as the arch rival.

He left Ajax because they didnt want to offer him another contract. His reaction was more or less: Fine, i ll go to Feyenoord and make them champion.
It was pure revenge.

The man i am talking about:



And his last season:



Didnt take him long before winning the Feyenoord fans over.
Even at 37 at the time he was still brilliant and till this day the best player i have seen on the pitch while i was in the stadium.

Oh, he kept his word, feyenoord won the league and cup double in 1984.

major bill

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So you were fully aware he would play again. He did. You should have held his registration. Dry your eyes.

its called a gentlemans agreement obviously fenn is no gentleman which suits him with rovers as they aint much of a classy club as discovered down the years.

Iago

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I think fans need to stop thinking that footballers have the same mindset as them cause its obvious they don't.

fans don't have that mindset about themselves, only about others.

folan

talla10 wrote: »

No seriously for me Denis law, United legend, scoring the goal for City against United that relegted them in the 70's deserves a mention!

I've already said that law played for City first, so he was a turncoat before he played for City the second time.
And i thought the goal was accidemic too, i thought the other games that day didnt go the right way for Utd so they would have gone down anyway. That might be wrong, im not 100%.

Anyway, ive twice gotten into this Law City/Utd thing. Ill leave it alone now

OhNoYouDidn't

major bill wrote: »

its called a gentlemans agreement obviously fenn is no gentleman which suits him with rovers as they aint much of a classy club as discovered down the years.

Gentlemens agreement my left nut. Dundalk are a professional football club and should run themselves accordingly. In a situation like that you release him from his contract and hold the registration. I don't disagree Fenn doesn't come out of this badly, but Dundalk are the clowns who let him walk mid season.

Rovers did nothing wrong. The agent of a player who was out of contract contacted the club and we needed that type of player to cover injuries and a short term deal suited both parties. And he got his league medal as icing on the cake.

More permarage from the club that gave us Maxi McCann. At some point they will read the rule book and cease to be the 'victims' of these things.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

Is that enough clarification fo you?

wow, i really didn't think that was the case.

i stand corrected so.

i don't mind that once in a blue moon.

get it?!

gets coat/

Seaneh

FatherTed wrote: »

Never claimed to be a fan of either club in fairness to him...

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

wow, i really didn't think that was the case.

i stand corrected so.

i don't mind that once in a blue moon.

get it?!

gets coat/

Jeez you should know by now I'm never wrong.;)

Ush1

flahavaj wrote: »

He didn't get his game as regularly as he might have liked. Not sure that justifies "being treated like crap" or indeed all the p*ssing and moaning he did about it tbh. He has shown at City and Corinthians that loyalty is as elusive to him as the rest of the English lamguage appears to be.

Great player on the pitch, unbelievably bad attitude off it.

I'm guessing you feel the same about Wayne Rooney?

ricero

jebidiah wrote: »

biggest **** in football. im delighted his career went to the dogs when he left liverpool even though were as **** as owen now :mad:

Warper

Mario Ballotelli is another that may prove himself to be one of the biggest turncoat of them all.

major bill

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Gentlemens agreement my left nut. Dundalk are a professional football club and should run themselves accordingly. In a situation like that you release him from his contract and hold the registration. I don't disagree Fenn doesn't come out of this badly, but Dundalk are the clowns who let him walk mid season.

Rovers did nothing wrong. The agent of a player who was out of contract contacted the club and we needed that type of player to cover injuries and a short term deal suited both parties. And he got his league medal as icing on the cake.

More permarage from the club that gave us Maxi McCann. At some point they will read the rule book and cease to be the 'victims' of these things.

bullsh1t rovers had just a big a part to play in the whole affair dont blame dundalks lack of professionalism. Michael o'neil is known for tapping up players.

Seaneh

Warper wrote: »

Mario Ballotelli is another that may prove himself to be one of the biggest turncoat of them all.

Why?
He has, since the day he signed for Brescia as a kid, stated he was a Milan fan.
Even when he was at Inter, he admitted he is a Milan fan. Even before he signed for Inter, he went to Milan matches. Even after he signed for Inter, he went to Milan matches.

He'd be like the millionth player to play for both clubs, in Italy, it isn't uncommon.

Players move clubs, fans aren't stupid enough to piss and moan about it for years afterwards.


players to play for both clubs off the top of my head...

Seedorf
Pirlo
Cocco
Ibrahimovic
Vieri
Helveg
Crespo
Ronaldo
Baggio
Davids
Brocchi
Favalli
Collovati
Serena
Meazza

Milan Vs. Inter isn't some hate filled rivalery where the fans hate each others.
IT's just a derby...

OhNoYouDidn't

major bill wrote: »

bullsh1t rovers had just a big a part to play in the whole affair dont blame dundalks lack of professionalism. Michael o'neil is known for tapping up players.

Thats quite the allegation, and considering Dundalk at the time exonerated Rovers of any wrongdoing and focused on the player, makes you sound even more Maxi.

But as you say, Dundalk showed a lack of professionalism.

invinciblePRSTV

Dwight Y*rke the twat, tapped up by Whisky breath, then played THAT game against Everton. What a prick.

Then played for Blues later on. **** you Yorkie!

gustavo

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Dwight Y*rke the twat, tapped up by Whisky breath, then played THAT game against Everton. What a prick.

Then played for Blues later on. **** you Yorkie!

Well done on censoring the word Yorke but not prick or **** :pac:

grenache

premierstone wrote: »

There must have been more to that though grenache no?? I mena he turned down plenty of bigger clubs than Derby in the two seasons before that and kept saying he was happy with Forest and then to leave and make a backwards step to your fiercest rivals on the face of it didnt make sense, something must have happened behind the scenes, oh yeah and I dont ever remember any forest fans calling him 'Fatboy' when he was carrying them, class player IMO.

I just think it was down to greed, Derby were offering him a couple of grand more and he thought they would be bouncing straight back to the PL having come down that May. It also meant he wouldn't have to up sticks and move house as Derby is less than 20 miles from Nottingham.

You could forgive us for calling him 'Fatboy' now, after what he did. Not only was his choice of clubs downright disrespectful, it was also bizarre. Not so much a backwards step as a sideways one, at the time. Derby have not even finished in the top eight once in the three seasons he has been there - Albeit not down to him, Commons has been one of if not the best player at Pride Park. We finished third last season and are a good bet for another top six finish this year. Meanwhile Derby languish in mid table having lost 5 of their last 6 games. It appears the judas rat jumped onto the wrong ship

dreamers75

Turncoats and Traitors why do i keep thinking of Father Teds acceptance speech for Preist of the year.

Good thread so far:

Dave Campbell for Pats, left us for Shels after we won the league. Didnt cover himself in glory at the time.