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Running Aimlessly Down Under - From 54 to 53 sec 400m

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Back to the gym this evening. Got through everything 3 times again today which pleased me. No changes to the individual exercises. The only points of note were:

    1) It took me ages to get through the session today. Around 15-20 minutes longer than it usually takes me.

    2) I found 2nd part of the circuit upper body very tough, where I lift the bar up and down 10 times with the bar resting behind my head. On my 3rd time doing it today I couldn't get to 10. Ended up doing 6 or 7.

    Overall can't complain though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Had my best session of the winter thus far. 4x250m Hills with the club, with 5 minutes rest between each rep. The last time I did this session 3 weeks ago my times were:

    51-51-54-55

    Today the improvement was very noticeable:

    49-51-51-49

    There were 6 of us running today and for the first rep I was 4th up to the top but only about 2 seconds behind the 3rd placed guy (who us sub 12 for 100, and around 53-54 over 400). For the 2nd and 3rd reps I came 4th again but the gap was much larger as I struggled to stay with him. Probably about 4-5 seconds behind him. However I had recovered quickly after the 3rd rep. I was breathing easy 3 minutes later while the lad who was 2nd all the way was breathing very heavily, while the 3rd place lad looked stuffed. For the final rep I killed it. The best individual rep I have done in any session to date. Reached the top in 2nd place, as the guy who was usually 2nd dropped out after 150m when just in front of me, while the guy who was usually 3rd was a mile behind me and had nothing left in the tank. Needless to say I was delighted with this, as I'm usually trailing behind them. :)

    It has to be mentioned that 3 weeks ago I MAY have run 5 metres more on each rep than I did today. I'm not certain. But even still, that wouldn't even come close to accounting for the drop in times. 6 second difference on my last rep today and my last rep 3 weeks ago.

    Has been a great session. Very happy with where I am at at the moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Back to the gym today. Did the full set 3 times again with the following changes:

    1) Lunges: Up to 30 from 25
    2) Chin-ups: Up to 10 from 9
    3) Circuit upper body: For the second part of this exercise, where I lift the bar up and down 10 times with the bar resting behind my neck, I have actually brought down the amount of reps to 5 as I have found this exercise very straining on the upper back, to the extent that I'm not sure it is worth it. The rest of this exercise remains at 10 reps, so 35 overall now instead of 40.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Back to the track today. Firstly my coach showed me a few drills/ plyometrics for me to do when I can fit them in. I'll do a separate post on that later.

    Today's session for me was 400-300-300 withe 10 minutes recovery between each. Ran them all in my flats. Decided to just throw myself in with them and get last week's mini calf strain out of my head.

    Rep 1: Managed the 400 in 65 seconds, 5 seconds behind one of the lads who tends to beat me on the hills by about 3-4 seconds. I don't like seeing any 400 time starting with a 6, but to be honest, for training, and at this time of the year, in flats, it is pretty useful. It's hard to run fast when the adrenaline is not there.

    Rep 2: Felt rubbish throughout this one. No real fluidity at all, and was way behind that same lad mentioned above, about 5 seconds, maybe more, and he was running 350, rather than 300 on that rep. My time was 49 seconds which I was not happy with. My coach said that the slower time would be explained by the fact I had run a 400 beforehand, as opposed to a 300 during the other weeks. He said not to worry about the time, that it's all about effort levels, and that the important thing that we are focusing on right now is to train the body to be able to run hard when tired. So job done in that regard.

    Rep 3: Wanted to run this one faster than the last. Felt better during this one, partly because that same lad was also struggling and I was only a couple of metres down on his at the 150 mark. However I noticed one of the girls (a 63 low runner for 400) creeping close to me. No way was I letting her past me, and I slowly got away from her. The guy pulled away from me at around 180m, but then seemed to slow badly again with about 50m to go and I finished only 2 seconds behind him, in 48 seconds, with the girl 2 seconds behind me. So I am finishing these sessions well relative to some others which is good.

    So my times were: 65-49-48.

    Absolutely shattered at the end of it. It can be hell at times. I'm delighted I got through the session ok running on the balls of my feet in the flats. This brings confidence for sure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Went up to Shepparton for the weekend to visit a friend. We managed to find a pretty well kept grass 400m track there so I popped in for a quick session on what was a glorious day of sunshine.

    Started with some plyometric drills which my coach quickly went through with me on thursday:

    1) High Knee - 4x20m
    2) Skips - 6x20m (should have been 4 but was talking me awhile to get my co-ordination right during these so did an extra 2)
    3) Butt Kicks - 4x15m. After watching a few videos of this I'm not sure I did this correctly. Didnt get my thighs up vertically enough.
    4) Dont know the name of this one. Basically you take lots of short quick steps, as if you are running on something very hot, trying to fit as many small steps in as possible really. Did 4x10m of this.

    When I get a chance I'll post up some youtube videos of these drills. This is still all very alien to me. I have some new DOMS where DOMS has never gone before, but that's all part and parcel.

    I then did a quick speed session. My club do 4x(4x60m) on Saturday or Sunday mornings but I can never make it to those sessions, so I did one of my own. I just did 2x(4x60m) on this occasion, running flat out. I hadn't brought flats with me, so I used my road shoes, and to my big surprise I was up on the balls of my feet very easily. Perhaps this was due to the fact it was a short sharp sprint, or maybe because it was a grass track. I have no idea.

    Gym tonight.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Gym this evening. Exact same session as last Wednesday. No variation at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Back to the hills yesterday evening. Once more the session was 4x250m with 5 minutes recovery:

    Rep 1: 49 seconds – Was 4th to the top, about 3-3.5 seconds behind 2nd and 3rd

    Rep 2: 51 seconds – Again 4th to the top, around the same distance behind 2nd and 3rd, maybe half a second more

    Rep 3: 53 seconds – A funny one this. I found myself right behind the guys in 2nd and 3rd, literally one step the whole way. Thought this would drag me around to a quicker time, but as it turned out both their pace had dropped significantly. Maybe I should have pushed on harder rather than expecting those guys to be always ahead of me. The 3rd rep is always the toughest so good just to get through it and have some energy left for a good last push on the final rep.

    Rep 4: 50 seconds – The guy in 3rd during the previous reps was told to just run 150m flat out, so he didn’t run to the top. After about 160-170m the guy in 2nd place started struggling and I stormed past him which I was delighted with. He’s running faster overall times than me but I am finishing much stronger consistently in these sessions which is very pleasing.

    So times were: 49-51-53-50 compared to last weeks 49-51-51-49. A little slower and not as consistent but overall pretty happy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Back to the gym today. Made the following changes from the last day:

    1) Upped the bench press from 85lbs to 91lbs
    2) Upped the crunches to 30 from 25

    I realise that gym updates here are a bit boring so I thought I'd bring my geeky stats side of me out and do a comparison between my most recent gym session compared to my very first one, and how much the workload has increased since then:

    1) Box squat

    Start: [25 (Free squating)]x 1
    Now: [25 (12+ 13, Box squating)] x 3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 3:1

    2) Bench Press

    Start: [5 x (80lbs)]x1
    Now: [8 x (91lbs)]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 5.46:1

    3) Crunches

    Start: [25]x1
    Now: [30]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 3.6:1

    4) Step-ups

    Start: [30]x1
    Now: [40]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 4:1

    5) Clap Pushups

    Start: [2 sets of 5]x1
    Now: [2 sets of 10]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 6:1

    6) Stomach Ball Crunches

    Start: [20]x1
    Now: [25]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 3.75:1

    7) Lunges

    Start: [20]x1
    Now: [30]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 4.5:1

    8) Chinups

    Start: [2]x1
    Now: [10]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 15:1

    9) Side sit-ups

    Start: [16]x1
    Now: [30]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 5.625:1

    10) Circuit upper body

    Start: [40 x 30lbs]x1
    Now: [35 x 50lbs]x3
    Now V Start workload ratio: 4.375:1


    So by getting the average of these 10 numbers I get a figure of 5.531. So basically my gym workload is now 5.5 times what it was on my first session. Such progress is very pleasing. :)

    I turned down free drinks with work this evening to do my gym session. Such a decision would never have happened a year or two ago. I must be getting sensible in my old age. :eek::P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    A pleasant surprise this evening. Instead of the usual session of long reps, our coach had us doing 6x160m reps with 5 minutes between each (Don't know why it was 160 instead of 150. Very random).

    I did some drills again during my warm up. Just 3 of each drill instead of 4. Need to ease into these.

    Track was wet this evening, but decided to go with the racing flats. Very enjoyable session and felt I ran pretty well. All my 6 times were either 21 or 22. A good average would be low to mid 22 I reckon, but I always got to the finish line before he shouted out 23.

    Out of the 6 of us, I was 4th to the finish line every time. I don't have the natural top speed that the 3 guys ahead of me have, so I didn't expect to be ahead of him. The top 2 guys were running around 19, one of whom is a 50 second 400 runner and 23 low over 200). The lad in 3rd was usually 1-2 seconds ahead of me. Got close on some reps. He's a 10.6 second 100 runner in his day and told me he beat Steve Hooker over 100 years back (apparantly Hooker has gone 10.5 for 100. AMAZING!!). Anyway, was happy to get reasonably close to him.

    The 2 girls were behind me. One of them would always be right up on me going into to the straight then I would easily pull away. My pickup is not particularly good it has to be said, but I finish well. This girl is leaving us very soon to join the airforce. It's a shame. She's in excellent shape and I reckon would easily beat her PBs this year (63 low for 400, 28 low for 200, 13.5 for 100). It's great to have people faster than you to drag you along, but its also great to have strong training partners who are slower than you pushing you on. I'll never let her get past me, so having her breathing down my neck on certain sessions is a great help to me. So I'll definitely miss having her in my training group.

    Todays session makes me feel confident that I can run a 200m PB in the graded meets in Dublin in a few weeks time, if I get decent conditions.

    4 hard days training in a row. Time for a beer and a day off tomorrow.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Pisco Sour wrote: »
    (Don't know why it was 160 instead of 150. Very random).

    I can only imagine this is down to getting athletes to focus on effort rather than time given time of year it is.

    I know I use this approach at times where I am not focusing on racing (or am coming back to shape etc) I will do training reps over odd distances or on tougher terrain (hilly routes/ "munich" laps etc)

    I also go so far as to run distances I wouldnt normally run in races (15k, 6k, 2 mile etc)

    it makes it easier for the athlete to focus more on effort when they cant easily work out what they are "supposed" to run for the rep


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    ecoli wrote: »
    I can only imagine this is down to getting athletes to focus on effort rather than time given time of year it is.

    I know I use this approach at times where I am not focusing on racing (or am coming back to shape etc) I will do training reps over odd distances or on tougher terrain (hilly routes/ "munich" laps etc)

    I also go so far as to run distances I wouldnt normally run in races (15k, 6k, 2 mile etc)

    it makes it easier for the athlete to focus more on effort when they cant easily work out what they are "supposed" to run for the rep

    Interesting. Could be a bit of that in it, though he was very much at the finish line with watch in hand reporting the times back, and has been doing it every week now.

    What are Munich laps?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Pisco Sour wrote: »
    Interesting. Could be a bit of that in it, though he was very much at the finish line with watch in hand reporting the times back, and has been doing it every week now.

    What are Munich laps?

    Even though you are reporting back times it is in relation to training at this time of the year as opposed to doing say 150s coming into race season. If you were doing same in winter you might try compare with times from a different phase of training and resulting in getting disheartened or worse yet trying to overdo it to match times when you are coming into your peak competition phase and ending up injured as a result.

    By monitoring over the last few weeks at an odd distance you are able to track progression in the last few weeks if that makes sense

    Again he may have other reasons for it but I know that is the mentality I use in my training

    Phoenix Park loops roughly 1300m on grass over rolling hills. They were named this after Coghlan training on them in build up to the Munich Olympics. They are pretty famous in dublin and on weekends you will still find 100s of people doing reps on them during cross country season from many Dublin clubs

    http://www.duhac.tcdlife.ie/Information/Maps/phoenix_park.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Plan for today was to do a 4x(4x60m) session with walk back break between each individual 60, and a 3 minute break between each set of 4. However my right hamstring is feeling a bit tight and achey after Thursday's session. I don't think it is anything to worry about. My right hamstring felt exactly like this after my first track session this winter (3x300m) and it went away in a few days, and I haven't had it after any track session since. Now I have it after my first short sharp speed session (6x160m). I reckon it's just DOMS again as I didnt feel any tightness until the next day. However unlike last time, I dont have DOMS all over my body, just a few mild ones in a few different places. Probably not worth risking it doing a hard session like that, so I'll rest up and hit it again on Monday.

    Next week is going to be a bit disrupted. Monday will be gym as usual. Tuesday will be hills again. But Wednesday I'll have to skip my gym session as one of the employment agencies is having networking drinks. I'm finishing up my current job this week before I fly home, so I'll be looking for a new (and hopefully better) job when I get back, so I really need to be giving myself every opportunity possible, so showing up to this is a legitimate excuse for missing training. I suppose I could not drink and then head to the gym after. It's an option, but that will mean getting back to the house quite late, so I'd want to be fully packed for my trip by then if I'm to do that. We'll see.

    Then I fly out Thursday afternoon, and arrive early morning Irish time. So the next session wont be until Saturday where I'll do some hills on my own in Marlay Park. I still need to get myself sorted for a gym to use twice a week. I think I should be good to use the Ballinteer St John's gym up the road from me (apparently I'm a life member). I think I am sorted for a training group for when I am home (DSD) so that will be handy to make sure I don't lose what I've built up, but no doubt the next month could be a bit topsy turvy with regards training. It will probably be ok when in Ireland but am petrified about what might happen when in London. My schedule is becoming ever so jam-packed for that week. Will just have to make that effort to squeeze those sessions in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 920 ✭✭✭RandyMann


    Hey Pisco, might see you down at the track over the next couple of weeks if you are training with the DSD group. I am there most Saturdays before they turn up at 11:30


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    Hi Pisco
    Good to see the training coming along. Must keep an eye out for you in marlay, I train a few of the kids on a Saturday at 11, I'll more than likely have my red Tallaght jumper on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    RandyMann wrote: »
    Hey Pisco, might see you down at the track over the next couple of weeks if you are training with the DSD group. I am there most Saturdays before they turn up at 11:30
    Woddle wrote: »
    Hi Pisco
    Good to see the training coming along. Must keep an eye out for you in marlay, I train a few of the kids on a Saturday at 11, I'll more than likely have my red Tallaght jumper on.

    Thanks guys. Not 100% certain yet what my plan will be for Saturday. I arrive in early Friday morning. If I recover well and jet lag is not an issue then I'd love to just get cracking on a track session that day (as I'm missing my Thursday track session). But if I am still suffering a bit of jet lag then training with such quick runners on the track may not be the best plan of attack, in which case I'll hit the hills over at Marlay. Woddle if you're up for some hill sprints let me know. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    My final gym session today before flying back on Thursday. Made the following changes from last Wednesday:

    1) Squats: 30, up from 25
    2) Stomach Ball Crunches: 30, up from 25

    Tomorrow I'll hit the hills for my last session with my training group until 21st August.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    The coach mixed things up yesterday and had us doing 10x100m hill sprints with walk back break (3 mins) between each rep. After 5 reps we had an extended break of around 8 minutes. The original plan was 12x100 but after 2 reps they decided to revise the amount of reps.

    Because I don't have the same level of natural top speed as some of the others I was always going to be one of the last to reach the top but I was always pretty close to most of the others which is pleasing. My times were on average 18 seconds. There were a couple of 17s and a couple of 19s but overall 18 is a solid average.

    Session was tough. The last 2-3 reps I was hanging on a bit. The whole session knocked the stuffing out of me and didn't have much energy for the rest of the evening.

    Networking drinks this evening so will have to give the gym a miss and then fly home tomorrow so there'll be 3-4 days of inactivity coming up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    Pisco Sour wrote: »
    Thanks guys. Not 100% certain yet what my plan will be for Saturday. I arrive in early Friday morning. If I recover well and jet lag is not an issue then I'd love to just get cracking on a track session that day (as I'm missing my Thursday track session). But if I am still suffering a bit of jet lag then training with such quick runners on the track may not be the best plan of attack, in which case I'll hit the hills over at Marlay. Woddle if you're up for some hill sprints let me know. :D

    The general consensus about jetlag is you are ok to compete within 24 hrs of landing or wait 7 days instead but nothing in between. That's a rule a lot of elite's use when flying transatlantic but Oz is another matter entirely.

    You must be excited about finally heading back home. They say the weather is gonna turn good this weekend and last for a few weeks. Enjoy!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    The general consensus about jetlag is you are ok to compete within 24 hrs of landing or wait 7 days instead but nothing in between. That's a rule a lot of elite's use when flying transatlantic but Oz is another matter entirely.

    You must be excited about finally heading back home. They say the weather is gonna turn good this weekend and last for a few weeks. Enjoy!

    Ah yeh. Will just see how I feel. There'll be no heroics. If I'm up to it I'll do it. If not I'll wait an extra day or two.

    Good news about the weather, but I'd take any forecasts with a grain of salt.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    After a long long flight from Melbourne (27 hours) I arrived him yesterday morning exhausted. Still a little jet lagged this morning but had enough energy for a session in Irishtown with the DSD sprint group. Wasn't a heavy session because most of them are competing tomorrow in Santry, so that suited me fine.

    Warm up: 800m jog, stretches, then some drills. One of the lads took me through some drills I hadn't done before. Hard to remember them all but good to learn more than the few that I currently do, to shake it up a bit.

    Then we did 3x40m strides from a 3 point start. Have never done a 3 point start before so made a bit of a balls of it, but people aren't shy or slow in pointing out the errors, which is the way I like it to be, and you learn so much quicker that way.

    The actual session was 2x40, 2x60 and 2x80 all off a rolling start. The coach told me to throw on the spikes (was going to use the flats) which was my first time wearing spikes since April. For the 40's I was ahead of one of the girls, for the 60s I was about level with her. After the second 60 I might have imagined something in my calf. Coincidently the coach told me soon after to not go flat out because I am not used to these sessions so I backed off slightly for the 2x80 and was slightly behind that girl. She's a 56 second runner at her best so that gives me some sort of guideline anyway.

    Then a warm down consisting of knee lifts, but kicks, light strides and sideways runs. Certainly a type of warm down I have never done before.

    Really enjoyed the session. It's a very nice, friendly and helpful group, with many of them giving me lots of helpful pointers. Lots of great athletes there from whom so much can be learned. I wasn't completely out of my depth either thankfully.

    Will be back to train with them on Wednesday.

    So this week has been a bit light with just 3 sessions. I'll kick back into it Monday morning with a gym session.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    First gym session in 7 days. I have life membership with Ballinteer St Johns even though I haven't played GAA since the age of 7. My sister played for 6-7 years and my dad was quite involved during that time, so when the clubhouse was built he signed us all up for life members. Never thought it would have any benefit for me but I guess I was wrong. :D They have a super gym facility there and its just down the road from me and it is costing me nothing! :)

    Took me awhile to get to grips with the different equipment but they have most of what I need. They dont have a box for my box squats so I had to improvise with a low step, and they dont have a high box for step ups so I had to use a bench beside a wall, but overall I can't complain.

    The bar weighed 20kg (44lbs) however rather than 30lbs in Melbourne. I ended up lifting slightly less for the bench press due to the fact that only weights in kilos were available. I lifted 40kg (88lbs) which is down from 91lbs. For the circuit upper body I lifted 22.5kg (49.5lbs) down from 50lbs. In both instances it felt tougher today. Maybe it is to do with the fact the bar is much wider so I am not getting the same centre of gravity or maybe the bar back in Melbourne isn't as heavy as I thought. Either way, not a big deal.

    Besides the above I made no changes to my routine.

    I had originally planned to do hills in Marlay Park tomorrow followed by another track session with the club on Wednesday evening and then gym on Thursday. However I have DOMS from hell after my track session on Saturday, so I'll probably do another gym session tomorrow and move my hills to Thursday. I'll see how I feel tomorrow.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    Do you want company for the hills tomorrow?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Woddle wrote: »
    Do you want company for the hills tomorrow?

    Yeh if you're around then definitely. I'd probably be going in the late morning.

    Still not 100% certain on hills tomorrow. If the DOMS are still bad I'd be better off sitting it out and doing the gym instead and doing the hills Thursday instead.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    No probs, I'm flexible with time and if you can't do it don't worry about it as I'll just do sth myself. I'll pm you my number.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Woddle wrote: »
    No probs, I'm flexible with time and if you can't do it don't worry about it as I'll just do sth myself. I'll pm you my number.

    Cool. If I end up doing it on Thursday you're welcome to join then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    DOMS still very much there this morning so Hills were scratched and I did another gym session. I felt tired and stiff throughout so just did the full set twice, rather than 3 times.

    I'm finding the gym sessions more difficult here and they are taking more out of me. Maybe it's to do with the humidity (as opposed to zero humidity in Melbourne during winter), or the fact that the gym doesn't get much air, or the different equipment, or the different routine of being in a different country. Whatever it is I feel a little tired at the moment. Hopefully my body loosens up by tomorrow for my track session with the club as I am looking forward to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,524 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Pisco Sour wrote: »
    I had originally planned to do hills in Marlay Park tomorrow followed by another track session with the club on Wednesday evening and then gym on Thursday.
    There are hills in Marlay Park?? :eek: No wonder I hurt myself doing those hill sprint sessions!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    There are hills in Marlay Park?? :eek: No wonder I hurt myself doing those hill sprint sessions!

    Yeh that hill that starts after the tennis courts right up to the car park at the top would do the trick.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    Pisco Sour wrote: »
    Yeh that hill that starts after the tennis courts right up to the car park at the top would do the trick.

    That's a hill? Pfffft, bleeding sprinters. ;)


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