Running Aimlessly Down Under - From 54 to 53 sec 400m

Pisco Sour

Weekly massage which was nowhere near as sore as in previous weeks. Good news.

Did the exact same gym session as Monday except for the chin-ups. This time I managed 23, up from 20 the last day. Delighted with that. Just did the 10 the second time around.

Oregano_State

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Weekly massage which was nowhere near as sore as in previous weeks. Good news.

Did the exact same gym session as Monday except for the chin-ups. This time I managed 23, up from 20 the last day. Delighted with that. Just did the 10 the second time around.

Do you visit a physio every week?

I'd love to be getting massages every week, I'm sure it's excellent for recovery and injury prevention, but at 40-50quid a pop from a phsyio not a hope!

I'll have to make do with getting the grid foam roller. My old gym used to have them and they're pretty good. And I'm still in awe of your chin ups tally. Well done!

Pisco Sour

Oregano_State wrote: »

Do you visit a physio every week?

I'd love to be getting massages every week, I'm sure it's excellent for recovery and injury prevention, but at 40-50quid a pop from a phsyio not a hope!

I'll have to make do with getting the grid foam roller. My old gym used to have them and they're pretty good. And I'm still in awe of your chin ups tally. Well done!

Thanks. We'll see if the chin-ups PBs will translate into proper PBs though.

Yeh I get the massages every week. One of our coaches has some sort of qualification to give them (even though it's not his day job). 20 dollars for a session, which lasts anything from 20-30 minutes. I'm lucky to be honest. No way would I pay 40-50 a week for them.

Pisco Sour

Pisco Sour wrote: »

6x160m this evening at the track with 5 minute recoveries. Quite a warm evening, and the track was dry, so much nicer conditions than Tuesday night. A few people were missing this evening, while others were nursing niggles and so did easier sessions. So just 2 of us doing the 6x160 this evening. My rough times were:

22.0 - 22.1 - 22.3 - 22.5 - 22.4 - 22.1

Was between 8 and 13 metres down on the other lad over the course of the 6 reps.

Pretty happy with this evening. Felt like I ran well and I was a hell of a lot tireder than the last time we did this session which shows I pushed harder this time.

However, I've never been convinced that we've actually been starting these 160s from the right spot and afterwards I went and measured what I run, and sure enough, it was only 153-154 that I was running, 155 at a stretch. Pretty gutted by this as I thought I was running these 160s at high 27 200m pace, but alas it is not to be. I'd rather know what I'm actually running rather than get a false sense of security. In any case, the distance I ran today was pretty much what I ran the last few times, so there definitely was improvement today.

Did the above 6x160m with 5 min recoveries session this evening with the training group, though there were only 4 of us in total, with 2 of them doing 200s and one doing 150s. After last week running only around 154m, I walked 7 steps back from where I started last week, so I roughly did 160m this week, minus a metre maybe.

I messed up the timing of my 3rd rep, and for my final rep I had a bit of a mix up at the start (a bit like Marian Heffernan in the relay in Daegu last year) where I started, saw the girl in front of me not move, so I slowed down, then started again when I saw her eventually move. Annoying so that would have cost me a good 0.7 seconds I reckon. Times were:

22(mid) - 22(very low) - ? - 23(low) - 23(very low) - 23(mid)

A good rough average is probably about 23 flat. Last week my average was about 22.3, but I ran about 6 metres more this week each rep, so perhaps my session this week was a small bit better. Bit of a drop from my 2nd rep to the last few though. Kind of had me thinking that maybe I stopped my watch early, but to be fair it felt like I ran that one well.

Tomorrow off. Will aim to do a few 60s at the Melbourne Uni track Saturday morning, then it's a weekend of sport, BBQ and booze. AFL grand final on Saturday, and NRL grand final on Sunday. No major interest in either sport but a big weekend in Aussie sport so I can certainly embrace it with a few beers.

Pisco Sour

I think it was fitting that this morning was probably the darkest morning I have experienced in Melbourne. Have never seen the city in such darkness at 9am, as a thunderstorm passed by. Sums up the mood of many in the city today. A dark day for Melbourne and for Irish people living here RIP Jill Meagher

Sort of puts running, and 400m and marathons, missing out on targets by fractions and hitting walls into perspective. Will try to keep this in mind during the season. Not always easy of course, but will try.

Pisco Sour

Hoped to get some 60s in on Saturday but this weekend was absolutely choker-blocked, I barely had any free time. The small bit I did have was used to watch as much of the Ryder Cup as I possibly could. I missed the last 2 Ryder Cups due to travelling at the time so no way was I missing this. I can never understand the ignorance of people who say golf is not a sport. That is as good a live sporting action as you will find anywhere!

Back to the gym today. Decided to take out the one legged squats off the programme today. The last week or two the outside of my left calf has been aching me. I've had a suspicion that the one legged squats were causing most of the discomfort, so I thought I'd experiment today by leaving it out, and my calf was nowhere near as achey, so may leave that exercise out in future.

Did the 13 other exercises twice, and then to make up for not doing the one legged squats I did the box squats and bench press for a 3rd time.

Within each exercise the only changes I made were:

1) Bench Press - Up to 85.5lbs from 80lbs (assuming the bar is 15lbs, it could be 20lbs)

2) Chin-ups - Did 10 and 15 today, down from 23 and 10 the last day

Just 4 and a half days til the start of the track season now. Can't believe it's almost upon me. Dying to get out there now and see what shape I'm in. Coach said to me to train hard on the track tomorrow but go easier on Thursday so I'll be fresh for Saturday.

My training group are starting their session at the very sociable hour of 4pm tomorrow so I am stuck training by myself again!!

RandyMann

Hey Pisco, nice going on those chin ups. Are they full extension chins where you lower yourself all the way down till your arms are straight? If they are, you are some man to be doing those reps!

Pisco Sour

Training group did their session at the ungodly hour of 4pm, meaning I had no hope of making that session (can't imagine any working human doing likewise!!). So again I was faced with a solo session. Did the same session as last Tuesday. 3x300 with 5 minute recoveries in racing flats.

I asked a few people on the off chance that they'd like to join me, and one of the coaches at my club (the jack of all trades, the guy I beat by just 0.17 in the 400m at the State Decathlon last Feb) said he'd join me for some of the session, while one of the Collingwood lads declined the offer but very kindly offered to time me.

I ran in lane 2 and my club mate ran in lane 3. I think the adrenaline was pumping a bit and deep down I didn't want to let him beat me at my discipline, especially given the fact I have trained very hard over the sprints and he has been doing a lot of winter cross-country. So I guess I stormed off faster than I expected to, ate up the stagger after about 80-90m and never saw him again, and he eased up with 100m to go. I ran it extremely hard and knew it was a fast time. 44.1 I was timed at. Delighted but there was no doubt I ran it a bit too hard. I was shattered already. This is the fastest 300m rep in training I have ever done, comfortably. You could even say I sort of raced that rep to an extent.

The 2nd rep I didnt eat up the stagger until around 160m in, but flowed past him very nicely and fely great at this point. Finished in 46.1, which was 2 seconds slower than rep 1, but an excellent result given how knackered I was after the first rep. My club mate stopped once I past him.

The 3rd rep was always going to be a write off. Club mate said he'd do the last rep until I passed him and then he'd stop, but I never got near him. I was running on complete empty. I was a small bit dizzy after the 2nd rep. A part of me wanted to pull the plug and not do the 3rd. I have never felt so drained with still a rep to go. My time reflected all of this, with a painfully slow 51.9. Actually given the fact I was so jaded I was shocked I even managed that. Club mate ran the full rep in the end, in around 48.

Certainly the toughest session I have done in a long while, maybe ever. Perhaps not the very best session, as my pacing was all over the place, and I went way too fast on rep 1, but I have gained a lot of confidence from today. I didn't think I was capable of running a low 44 in flats in a training session, basically on my own for the last 150m of it, and getting through that final rep will stand to me aswell. I'm starting to feel like I am in some sort of decent shape for Saturday.

Took me ages to recover and was in a heap for about 10-15 minutes before my strength came back and I am fine now. I didn't spew thankfully.

After my warm down I impulsively decided to pick up a shot and have a few goes at it for the craic. A part of me thought that my gym work would help me throw further than before, even without much technique. My mate from Collingwood who is mad for the decathlon and is the ultimate jack of all trades gave me a bit of a coaching session and I threw a few. However on my 3rd throw I hurt my right bicep and inside of the elbow. I'll be fine, but it serves as a valuable lesson to me: Don't be a muppet. By all means have fun on Saturday in the long jump, shot and high jump, but keep the eye on the main prize and dont do anything to risk injury, all for the sake of events that I am fairly sh1te at.

I'm sure my body will be sore tomorrow after this evening's efforts so my weekly massage tomorrow will come at the right time.

So to summarise my times were:

44.1 - 46.1 - 51.9

RandyMann wrote: »

Hey Pisco, nice going on those chin ups. Are they full extension chins where you lower yourself all the way down till your arms are straight? If they are, you are some man to be doing those reps!

Nah, I definitely don't lower myself all the way down. Cant really describe how far I lower myself, I never really think about it. I just do what the others do. But I know for sure I don't do full extension chin-ups. Sort of takes a small bit of the gloss off my chin-ups perhaps.

Also did a bit of research and it turns out that what I am doing is more correctly termed as pull-ups, as my palms are facing away from my body, while apparently chin-ups are when your palms are facing the body. Wont lose too much sleep over the terminology though.

Pisco Sour

Weekly massage was cancelled today. He's had to reschedule at the last minute which was a bit of a disappointment. Having it on Friday instead, before my race on Saturday.

As my right arm was a bit sore after my shot putting idiocy yesterday I decided to leave out the upper body stuff out of my routine today. No big deal though as I was planning on going a bit easier today anyway.

Of the 13 exercises 4 are upper body, so I did the other 9 exercises twice, along with 4 of these for a 3rd time, those being the goodmornings, box squats, body twists with medicine ball and stomach ball crunches.

Got my AV number today. Starting to get excited now that the season is almost finally among us.

Oregano_State

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Nah, I definitely don't lower myself all the way down. Cant really describe how far I lower myself, I never really think about it. I just do what the others do. But I know for sure I don't do full extension chin-ups. Sort of takes a small bit of the gloss off my chin-ups perhaps.

Also did a bit of research and it turns out that what I am doing is more correctly termed as pull-ups, as my palms are facing away from my body, while apparently chin-ups are when your palms are facing the body. Wont lose too much sleep over the terminology though.

I'd work on lowereing yourself down fully if I were you, you're not getting the full benefit from the excercise otherwise. You've gotten good enough at pulling your bodyweight as well, so I'd recommend either wearing a 5-15kg weight vest or grabbing a dumbell between your feet when doing them in future! Strength improvements come in the 3-8 rep range, so you should struggle to do 8 full pull ups ideally per set.

If you want my advice, that is

Pisco Sour

Oregano_State wrote: »

I'd work on lowereing yourself down fully if I were you, you're not getting the full benefit from the excercise otherwise. You've gotten good enough at pulling your bodyweight as well, so I'd recommend either wearing a 5-15kg weight vest or grabbing a dumbell between your feet when doing them in future! Strength improvements come in the 3-8 rep range, so you should struggle to do 8 full pull ups ideally per set.

If you want my advice, that is

Cheers for that. Certainly food for thought. Something tells me that my little tiny old skool Katie Taylor style gym is not going to have weight vests available for me though.

ecoli

Oregano_State wrote: »

I'd work on lowereing yourself down fully if I were you, you're not getting the full benefit from the excercise otherwise. You've gotten good enough at pulling your bodyweight as well, so I'd recommend either wearing a 5-15kg weight vest or grabbing a dumbell between your feet when doing them in future! Strength improvements come in the 3-8 rep range, so you should struggle to do 8 full pull ups ideally per set.

If you want my advice, that is

This is very important alright if you are managing more than 8 - 10 reps you are working on muscular endurance rather than strength and power you are looking to try and get from these sessions (I assume)

@OS Looking at your own weight sessions I take it you are a more speed based runner yeah?

RandyMann

Oregano_State wrote: »

I'd work on lowereing yourself down fully if I were you, you're not getting the full benefit from the excercise otherwise. You've gotten good enough at pulling your bodyweight as well, so I'd recommend either wearing a 5-15kg weight vest or grabbing a dumbell between your feet when doing them in future! Strength improvements come in the 3-8 rep range, so you should struggle to do 8 full pull ups ideally per set.

If you want my advice, that is

Yes thats what I do, full extension with a DB between my ankles for strength.
If I was to max out with no weight hanging out of me, I managed 17 at my last attempt.

RandyMann

Hey Pisco, do you take that Molkosan regularly, even when you are not sick?

Pisco Sour

RandyMann wrote: »

Hey Pisco, do you take that Molkosan regularly, even when you are not sick?

Not at all. Just when I have a sore throat.

Pisco Sour

Was training on my own again this evening. Coach told me to go easier tonite because of the race on Saturday. Instead of doing the usual 6x160m he told me to just do 5 instead and do them at 90%, focusing on moving fast but staying comfortable and relaxed. I decided to shorten the recovery to 3 minutes instead of 5. I said to him my average from last week was 22.7ish so he said to aim to do these in 24 seconds. The first couple I was finding my feet with the easier pace but became more consistent after. Times were:

25.0 - 24.9 - 24.3 - 24.1 - 24.0

They felt pretty easy to be honest. Coach said my stride has improved a bit and told me to keep doing the drills.

Massage tomorrow to help me get ready for race on Saturday. 5 months of winter training is over. Summer is officially here!!

Pisco Sour

Got my massage at last today, just in time for tomorrow's race.

Not a lot one can say about a massage so I'll fill up some space on a conversation between myself and the physio (who is also the coach of the middle distance runners at our club). Don't know how we got onto it but he said that our current winter club champion (the best lad over cross country and road races, who is a 32 minute 10k runner) if he was around back 30 years ago would be in our club's 3rd team, occasionally in and out of the 2nd team. Now not only is he in our first team, but he is THE man of the first team. Interesting insight into the drop in standards. He said that in the past everybody who walked through the club rooms would be coming to compete and get faster, while now lots of people who join the club just do so recreationally. There was no particular resentfulness in his tone of voice, just illustrating the facts of life about how things have changed.

He also told me to not get sucked into the field events tomorrow, particularly the long jump, and to just do one attempt in each and then bugger off and save my energy for the 400m.

RandyMann

Good luck tomorrow Pisco.

Pisco Sour

60.3 seconds for 400m today. Initially was quite down about such a poor time, 1.7 seconds off the PB, but on second thoughts the weather was sh1te (wet, wind, cold, persistant rain) and it's the first race of the season so perhaps I expected too much. Next week in Box Hill, with hopefully better conditions, and a bit more race fitness I can take a good second off today's time fingers crossed.

Earlier in the day when the track was dry I ran 13.13 hand timed for 100m. I also let myself get sucked into the field events, though I did go easy enough with the Long Jump (4.07m) and Shot Putt (5.29m) but had a bit of fun with the High Jump, and I somehow managed a PB of 1.26m (1cm better than my previous best, which given the conditions was quite a surprise). Happy with the PB but it doesn't make the day a success. Today was all about the 400m and my time was poor, although it seems like everybody ran slower today than they usually do so maybe I am being a bit hard on myself. Murphy's Law that the Australian sunshine which we had on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday this week should disappear come race day! :rolleyes:

Race report to come later.

RandyMann

Pisco Sour wrote: »

60.3 seconds for 400m today. Initially was quite down about such a poor time, 1.7 seconds off the PB, but on second thoughts the weather was sh1te (wet, wind, cold, persistant rain) and it's the first race of the season so perhaps I expected too much. Next week in Box Hill, with hopefully better conditions, and a bit more race fitness I can take a good second off today's time fingers crossed.

Earlier in the day when the track was dry I ran 13.13 hand timed for 100m. I also let myself get sucked into the field events, though I did go easy enough with the Long Jump (4.07m) and Shot Putt (5.29m) but had a bit of fun with the High Jump, and I somehow managed a PB of 1.26m (1cm better than my previous best, which given the conditions was quite a surprise). Happy with the PB but it doesn't make the day a success. Today was all about the 400m and my time was poor, although it seems like everybody ran slower today than they usually do so maybe I am being a bit hard on myself. Murphy's Law that the Australian sunshine which we had on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday this week should disappear come race day! :rolleyes:

Race report to come later.

Weather had everything to do with it I'd say, no big deal about the slow time. It is not a true reflection of where you are at the moment.

Pisco Sour

RandyMann wrote: »

Weather had everything to do with it I'd say, no big deal about the slow time. It is not a true reflection of where you are at the moment.

True. 1) in good conditions, today's run would have been a comfortable sub 60 and 2) one of the lad's at Collingwood who trains on that track all the time told me it is a slow track and that he has never run a PB there. He said to me that had I run the race last Tuesday when I ran my good session I would have gone 57. I really don't know if he is just being nice tbh though. One thing that I was not happy about was only being 0.3 ahead of my clubmate who I was creaming in the 300 reps on Tuesday evening.

Pisco Sour

So the traditional first meet of the AV season was at Collingwood for the Magpie Multi's which offered a range of pentathlon, heptathlon and decathlon competitions from Under 14 right up to masters. For me, the reason for entering was to get a good run out in the 100m and 400m ahead of the opening round of the AV Shield next weekend.

100m:

The forecast for the day didn't look great but for the 100m at 10.20am the rain was only starting to drizzle down, and the sun was still breaking out during spells, so the track wasn't particularly wet for this event.

There were 2 heats in the Open decathlon and I was in the 2nd heat. There were 5 of us, and I was drawn beside a club mate of mine who was pretty much of my level at 100m and 200m last season (though an age behind me over 400m). Gun went off, and he got out brilliantly and left me for dead in the first 30m. By half way he had a significant gap over me as I struggled to get going quickly enough. However come the second half I started motoring and I was closing on his slowly but surely over the final 40m, and I crossed the finish line at what appeared to me just a smidge behind him in 3rd place. However when I saw the results I was shocked. They had 3 timekeepers so everybody got 3 times with the middle one being the official result for each person. My 3 times were 12.83, 13.13 and 13.22, so I was given a time of 13.13 seconds, while my club mate was given 12.70. He ran great, but I am shocked that he was so far ahead of me in the results. No way was that gap 0.43 seconds. It didn't feel like it anyway.

My score for decathlon purposes was rounded up to 13.2 and with 0.24 added for hand timing, I received 396 points. I'd have my doubts over the hand timing yesterday given the variation among many of the times for each people. How can one person time you at 12.8 and another at 13.2? But in any case, it's not important. It was a good run out, and there'll be plenty of official 100m runs to come one would hope. We also had a headwind, although I didnt really notice it, but the others were adamant it was a head wind.

Long Jump:

This was one event which I decided not to take any chances in. At the state decathlon championships in February I jumped 4.32m, and was a centimetre over the board enroute to a 4.55m jump. However, on a dreary Saturday morning in a low key meet there wasn't that same enthusiasm. My reason for being there was primarily the 400m, so given the fact that doing long jump in my spikes kills my shins, I took it very easy on this occasion, just using racing flats and not doing any practice jumps. Perhaps not in the spirit of the whole thing. My first jump was terrible, the worst I ever did. 3.6x. I had planned to just do one jump and leave it at that, but I was embarrassed with that performance so I continued on. My 2nd attempt was marginally better at 3.87, and my last spared some pride with a 4.07m. Realistically it was worth another 20cm had I worn spikes, but it was not worth the risk.

So 4.07m for 217 points.

Shot Putt:

By this stage the rain was pouring down Irish style, the wind was getting up, the weather was cold. It was generally miserable. The shot putt circle resembled a paddling pool. So much time between our throws were spent under shelter. I took one quick practice throw and then did my 3 throws, albeit conservatively. I did not want a repeat of Wednesday evening where I nearly injured myself stupidly trying to be Valerie Adams! Despite all of this I actually had great fun with this event. Good craic was had among everyone, and a few of us had a bit of an informal competition with regards who could manage the most outrageous grunt/scream after while putting the shot! My first attempt was shocking at 4.50m. 2nd attempt much better at 5.27m, and 3rd attempt slightly better again at 5.29m. Way down on the 6.51m I managed at the State Champs in February. To this day I have no idea how I managed that one.

So 5.29m for 208 points.

High Jump:

This event was mental. Just one high jump mat for about 40 people, some starting at 0.90m, others at 1.70m. The thing went on for an absolute age. I decided to start at 1.11m which I cleared with ease, despite the atrociousness conditions. I decided to be selective about my jumps on this occasion and not take on every height, to save energy. I passed at 1.14m, and failed my first attempt at 1.17m. I decided to pass on my 2nd attempt at 1.17m, giving me just 2 attempts at 1.20m. I failed the first of those. I wasn't too bothered and had prepared myself for an early exit, but I somehow managed to clear on my final attempt, giving the bar a right rattle. How it stayed up I have no idea. With 1.20m now cleared my enthusiasm was no rejuvenated and I decided to have some fun with this event. I passed on 1.23m and decided to save my energy and go all out at 1.26m which would be a PB (previous best was 1.25m). I failed the first 2 attempts, but pulled out a good one on the 3rd attempt, clearing it grazing the bar in the process. I passed at 1.29m which sounds ludicrous, but I wanted to keep myself involved for a bit longer and by waiting until 1.32m I got a longer break. Alas I failed all 3 attempts at 1.32m, albeit I wasn't a million miles away with one of the attempts. Good fun all round and I managed to beat a few people also. A lot more sh1te high jumpers this year so I didn't feel like I was holding up the show single-handedly like I have done in the past.

So 1.26m and 225 points.

400m:

Because the high jump went on for ages, the whole 400m became a mess, with races being run at random, whenever enough people who had finished their high jump became available. This affected my preparation a bit, and I had to rush my warm up a little to get myself into a race with decent competition. Thankfully I managed to get into a race with 3 others. I was on the outside though in lane 5, with an athlete from Glenhuntly in lane 2 (who beat me in the State Champs with 58.0x when I ran 59.18), a club mate of mine in lane 3 who has a 59.1 PB, and another guy in lane 4 who I didn't know much about.

The rain had now stopped, but the track was very wet, the wind was blowing, and it was pretty cold. I was listening very very carefully for the gun as there was a load of traffic passing on the road just outside where the start of the race was taking place. Inconvenient but thankfully I got away fine. Started ok, a bit rusty and maybe took a bit of time to get up to speed, and then tried to overcompensate a little between 100m and 200m. The lad in lane 4 ate up the stagger on me after about 120m, and pulled away for a little. However after about 170m he never gained any more on me, and if anything I gained a little on him. He was now my rabbit and I tried to stick to him as best I could. With 200m to go I pushed all out. At 150m to go the Glenhuntly athlete in lane 2 eats up the stagger. Coming into the home straight I can feel the lactic acid and myself tieing up a bit, but I push hard and the 2 lads ahead of me don't get away from me. I finish the stronger out of the 3 of us (marginally) and finish about 5-6 metres down on the Glenhuntly athlete who finished in 2nd place. My club mate had a dreadful run and was never a factor in this race.

I felt all in all I had run pretty ok actually, given how close I was to the other 2 guys. The lad who won said he runs 400m in 56 seconds, and he said that he could hear my feet behind him throughout the race, which surprised him given how quickly he had eaten up the stagger on me.

When I saw the results I was gutted however. The winner only ran 58.6, and the Glenhuntly athlete ran 59.3, with myself 1 second back in 60.3 seconds. Initially I was dreadfully disappointed, but when the dust settled I looked at it for what it was. The track is a slow track as it is, and the conditions were bad, combined with the fact it was the first race of the season. Being honest, in dry conditions that was a solid 59 second run, so now I'm feeling a bit better about it, and already looking ahead to next Saturday on a faster track at Box Hill, with no field events in my legs, with hopefully better conditions, and less race rustiness. I hope to go sub 59 or low 59 next weekend if the conditions allow me.

For the record this performance scored me 398 points. My day 1 total was 1444 points, which was over 100 up on my half way score at last year's Magpie Multi's but about 250 points down on my score after 5 events in the State Championships. I decided to pull out after the 400m, and didn't take part in day 2. I hope to do the full decathlon come State Championships in February, but this weekend was far too early in the season to be messing with pole vault and javelin and all sorts of other insane activities. I came back today to watch the others, but resisted all temptation to take part for the craic.

So cobwebs blown off. Hopefully better to come next weekend.

Pisco Sour

Back on the horse today to begin the build up to what should be a much quicker 400m on Saturday. Back to doing all 13 exercises twice, with the goodmornings and bench press for a 3rd time.

The only change I made was with the pull-ups. I tried to do full extension pull ups today. First time around I did 8, and then 2nd time I did 10, but the last 2 I wasn't getting the chin-up quite the full way, and my body was swinging back and forth a bit while doing it which was well awkward.

Pisco Sour

Got out of work at the usual time but it is just too hard to be warmed up in time for when the others start. Thankfully one of the other guys arrived after me so I always had people to run with. I did 3x300m with 5 minute recoveries,

Rep 1: I ran with 2 of my training group in this rep: a former 49 second runner coming back from injury plagued few years, and our 40+ year old former 10.6 second 100m runner. Both were on their 3rd rep and I was on my first so this can in no way be used as a measure of my performance, but I ended up crossing the finish line first. The 100 runner hates anything over 200m so I wouldn't be too far from him anyway but he looked shattered after his first 2 reps so I never saw him once during the rep. He was well behind. With regards the 49 second runner, he was never far ahead of me, about 7 metres coming into the last 30m or so. Then he just slowed to a jog and I passed him. Why people dont run through the line is beyond me. Anyway, this will be the only time I'll probably ever cross the finish line ahead of this guy haha! I ran the rep well, kept in control, and didn't go too fast like last Tuesday. Time was a nice 45.9.

Rep 2: Now the tables were turned. The other 2 were finished and another lad joined in with me for his first rep. I ran well, though perhaps a bit conservatively at times. I finished only about 2 seconds behind him, but I messed up my timing so don't know what I ran. I saw 47 on the clock when I looked at it, so it could have been a 46, could have been a 47. Who knows.

Rep 3: An aussie rules lad with no real background in track joined us for this rep. It's the footy off season so he wants to keep in shape. Granted it was my 3rd rep, and my club mates 2nd, but he smoked us both. I was a good 5 seconds behind him at a guess. My club mate was about 3 seconds ahead of me this time, and my time was a pleasing 47.0.

The 2 lads went and did another rep after and I timed them. The footy lad was much slower this time with a 44 high, and my club mate was about 46 low.

So to summarise, my times were:

45.9 - 46/47(?) - 47.0

Pretty happy with that. Much better consistency than last weeks 44.1 - 46.1 - 51.9

Oregano_State

Do you always have 5 mins break between 300m reps?

5 mins is somewhere in between aerobic and full recovery for working on speed.

Seeing as you're in the middle of racing season, would it be better to take a bit longer between reps and go for closer to race pace?

47 secs for 300m is 15.67/100m which works out to 62.67s for a 400m.

If you're aiming for a 58/59sec 400m, you need to be running 43.9s 300m in training.

In a 400m race, you'd have to go through quicker, because the last 100m is always going to be slower than the previous 3.

Next time you're training on your own, try something like 2 x 300m at 95% effort with 10-12min rest.

Just make sure you stay warm between the reps. Hamstrings can be pulled easily with big breaks!

RandyMann

Oregano_State wrote: »

Do you always have 5 mins break between 300m reps?

5 mins is somewhere in between aerobic and full recovery for working on speed.

Seeing as you're in the middle of racing season, would it be better to take a bit longer between reps and go for closer to race pace?

47 secs for 300m is 15.67/100m which works out to 62.67s for a 400m.

If you're aiming for a 58/59sec 400m, you need to be running 43.9s 300m in training.

In a 400m race, you'd have to go through quicker, because the last 100m is always going to be slower than the previous 3.

Next time you're training on your own, try something like 2 x 300m at 95% effort with 10-12min rest.

Just make sure you stay warm between the reps. Hamstrings can be pulled easily with big breaks!

I would have to agree with the above. I think your intervals are too slow. I also think that the volume of all the exercises/reps in the gym is huge, like you do many reps and a wide range of exercises. Go for power, lift heavier with fewer reps/longer recovery, like the way your intervals should be.

Pisco Sour

Oregano_State wrote: »

Do you always have 5 mins break between 300m reps?

5 mins is somewhere in between aerobic and full recovery for working on speed.

Seeing as you're in the middle of racing season, would it be better to take a bit longer between reps and go for closer to race pace?

47 secs for 300m is 15.67/100m which works out to 62.67s for a 400m.

If you're aiming for a 58/59sec 400m, you need to be running 43.9s 300m in training.

In a 400m race, you'd have to go through quicker, because the last 100m is always going to be slower than the previous 3.

Next time you're training on your own, try something like 2 x 300m at 95% effort with 10-12min rest.

Just make sure you stay warm between the reps. Hamstrings can be pulled easily with big breaks!

It’s all relative. Last year I was running 58/59 for 400m off 50 second 300m reps in training (albeit in road running shoes so would probably be 47-48 if in flats). Now I am running much quicker reps in training, in the 44-47 range. These reps are in racing flats on a terribly slow track with tight bends. I’m not consciously trying to go slow. That is simply as fast as I can currently go, given the track and the fact I use racing flats in training, and not spikes (personal decision there). I don’t think the fact I do the reps in 44-47 is an indication that I won’t run 58 or whatever at the weekend, given the fact I have already run that time last year off inferior training.

I had been doing 3x300 off 10 minute recoveries, but our sessions currently have us with just 5 minutes. I just do what I’m told. Racing season may have started, but it’s a long season and the coach has all the training geared towards March for the top guys when State Championships are on.

myflipflops

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Now I am running much quicker reps in training, in the 44-47 range. These reps are in racing flats on a terribly slow track with tight bends. .

I'm intrigued by the track. How tight and slow is it? Is it only 200 meters?

45 second per 300 is 4 minute mile pace. I don't see how a bend on any outdoor track can make any difference over 300 especially as you presumably only run one of the bends.

If the track does make a difference then dump the watch and run off feel. You seem to be massively caught up on times and stats. Focus on working damn hard instead of hitting times and then analysing them.

You also seem to be aerobically lacking. 400 athletes need to be fit. David Gillick once ran a 4.32 mile leg in the Intervarsity road relays. He was/is incredibly fit. Well worth adding some 30 minute runs to your week.

Oregano_State

myflipflops wrote: »

You also seem to be aerobically lacking. 400 athletes need to be fit. David Gillick once ran a 4.32 mile leg in the Intervarsity road relays. He was/is incredibly fit. Well worth adding some 30 minute runs to your week.

When I was running in my teens, this was a problem for me, I wasn't doing enough aerobic work in the winter, and this led to me having huge problems with running a heat and final in one day.

Even though I was regularly running 52.xx in one-off races, if it was a heat/final,, I'd take it as handy a I could in the final 150m to make the final, say 53 high, but no matter how easy I'd taken the heat, I don't think I ever ran faster in a final if it was on the same day. It was really infuriating, because the races that had heats were always the more important ones.

This was really brought home to me when I ran at the Scottish national (juvenile) indoors a few years back, the guy that won the 400m ran a heat, semi and final in the same day, all in 49.xx.

If you're in racing season Pisco, I wouldn't change massively, say do one 20min run a week, then build from there. But I do think aerobic base fitness is very very important!

myflipflops

Oregano_State wrote: »

If you're in racing season Pisco, I wouldn't change massively, say do one 20min run a week, then build from there. But I do think aerobic base fitness is very very important!

Agree but as he said, if his coach is aiming the peak for March then I reckon there is 2 months scope there at least for some aerobic work.